Umbral

Well, the biggest reason it's liked for PvP is because it's all about clutch spike increases to survivability. You can't top */regen on any short duration, high accuracy survivability time period, especially since it's not like you can't just run away and give yourself the time to recharge your clicks back up.

You don't take Soul Drain on a DM/* build? What's wrong with you? It's easily one of the strongest BU type powers in the game. It's the primary reason that DM is the best ST damage set, rather than Fire.

+Dam is a percent increase of base damage, and +res is a percent decrease of total damage. Focus Chi, like every BU type power, isn't going to allow you to surmount the problems of a heavily resisted damage type.

I regularly go without the normal BU type powers, but that's because I oftentimes outright forget to use them when I do have them. Because of this, I have a tendency not to get as much out of them as I could. In an optimized build, however, you'd be crazy not to take it considering how much it gives you for how little it asks (3 slots, 1 power pick, and ~4% animation time for ~35% +dam).

It's not possible. You can only reduce a power's recharge to one fifth of its original recharge time. I'm fairly confident that Blitz doesn't know the math, much less what the capabilities of certain builds are.

Storm>Crane>Storm>CAK (which is actually the optimal attack string without requiring extensive outside buffs) isn't possible with SOs. Storm Kick requires 225% +rech in order to recharge fast enough to run that string. 70% from Hasten and, assuming you slot fully for recharge, 95% from slotting. 165% +rech is still 60% +rech short of the required numbers.

As to suggesting that Crane Kick is interchangable with 2 applications of Thunder Kick, that's completely ignoring the fact that power's don't start recharging until they finish animating, which means that you can't use Thunder Kick twice in a row without having a period of dead time, which is going to castrate your DPS. Of course, this is completely ignoring the fact that Thunder Kick has atrocious DPA and should never see any use in a decent attack string.

The 2 piece set bonuses aren't that impressive: 12% +regen or 2.5% recov, both of which are values you're already swarming with. You're better off using as few slots as possible and making sure that you're using those slots as efficiently as possible. Depending on your opinions on the matter (I tend to pretty much ignore FH and use the promoted slotting mentality with Integration and PhysPer to conserve slots), if you're going to have a power with the +regen IOs, make sure it's a power you plan on enhancing. In order to conserve slots, you're also best off doing it for all of the +regen uniques within the same power. Combine these two recommendations and you pretty much get what Werner said.

That end redux in Integration is only saving you .07 end/sec. You can probably wait on slotting end redux in it until you're higher level and have more slots to throw around (and probably after you get all of your attacks and other defensive powers slotted up).

Charged Brawl, Jacob's or Havoc, BU, Thunder Strike, Chain Induction, and Lightning Rod. Charged Brawl is the foundation on which your ST attack string is built. CI is your awesomesauce beatstick of excellent DPA. Jacob's or Havoc are used to close it up and tie it together. Lightning Rod is just friggin' insane. Thunder Strike might be debateable thanks to its smaller radius, but I'd take it just because it's got control and excellent damage. The long animation time can play havoc with your survivability as a */regen though.

I wouldn't bother with defense until you start working with IOs and can manage to have at least 20% +def to the relevant positions. With just SOs, you're much better off going with Resilience rather than Weave because ~9% +def isn't going to do much for your survivability.

Incinerate: 10 sec base, 4.224 sec needed, 137% +rech needed
GFS: 12 sec base, 3.564 sec needed, 237% +rech needed
Cremate: 8 sec base, 4.356 sec needed, 84% +rech needed

With Hasten up (less than half a second from perma thanks to animation time), you've got Incinerate down to 2.91 sec recharge, GFS down to 3.27 sec recharge, and Cremate down to 2.33 sec recharge. All of those powers would recharge more than fast enough so you can run that chain easily.

Depending on how many slots you've got to throw around, either 3 or 4.

For SOs, 3 rech.
For IOs, an LotG +rech and 2 common rech IOs or an LotG +rech, LotG def/rech, and 2 common rech IOs.

Enhancing defense or resistance on MoG is virtually pointless.

You've supported the slotting up FH compared to MoG several times throughout this thread. You initially said you did it because you saw that other people weren't slotting it up. After being told the reasons why MoG needs heavier slotting, you then shifted to the perspective that the two are equivalent options. They aren't. Acting as if they are is playing up the strengths of FH and downplaying the strengths of MoG (re: favorable to FH and disfavorable to MoG).

The problem with applying this same style of logical deduction to CoX is that you're assuming that all of the mechanics operate in a roughly similar way in CoX, like they do in a vast majority of other games. You can't really apply logic as such without first looking into the mechanisms which the game actually uses to accomplish those goals, especially since the overall attribute you're looking into enhancing (i.e. survivability) is actual a composite attribute. It's like trying to increase your damage output by increasing the damage each of your attacks deals while completely ignoring the fact that your accuracy is low.

You weren't encouraging people to take one path or the other. You were telling people that the paths were equivalent when they're not even though I (and others) have repeatedly said throughout the thread that they're not.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. However, there isn't more than one way to skin a cat best. Sure, you could start at the underside and peel away slowly, but it doesn't mean that it's an equivalent path to cutting along the backside and taking it all off at once (what? you guys haven't checking into the most efficient methods of skinning cats?).

The issue with saying that there is more than one way to be optimal is that it's blatantly untrue. There is, no matter what you do, going to be a specific build path that generates better results than all of the others. There may be other builds that attain similar but lower levels of optimization, but there cannot be multiple optimal builds. That's the entire point with optimization: it's all about becoming the best, and you can't have multiple bests.

You have specifically said that it's all a matter of preference. That, by definition, implies that is no difference between the two, or, at the very least that you're downplaying the actual substantial difference between the two. Furthermore, by repeatedly proclaiming this in the face of actual information and analysis, you're acting as if you are right, no matter what information is shown to you to demonstrate your wronghood.

First off, I would never want people to do what I tell them just because I told them to. I prefer everyone to, at least, put in a minimum of effort in order to determine if I am right. The fact that some people know from previous experience that I'm right because I've already proven it in numerous other threads and continually tell it to you in a show of support of me has nothing to do with me assuming that everyone will automatically believe what I say. They believe me because I've already proven it to them.

Secondly, if you're interested in learning what I keep telling you, then read what I'm telling you and check out my methodologies. If it's making you feel like a fool, it's because you were wrong, you've been corrected, and yet you continually insist on trying to disprove your wronghood in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I've had these discussions a number of times (including this very one about me being an arrogant jack-***), and they all end up in one of two ways: you hate me because I made you look like an idiot (most likely with a neg repping along the way) or you hate me, but manage to suck up the fact that you were wrong and start learning from me anyway. Either way, I've already come to terms with the fact that you're never going to be a fan of mine. The question is whether you're going to learn from what you've been told.

I really don't give a damn about what you do. What I have a problem with is you supporting completely and totally incorrect conclusions about powers and what the end benefit of slotting those powers is.

I have yet to say that you must slot this way. I have simply provided the math to provide the reasons why I slot this way and why the logic/math, assuming you're going for an optimized build, that you've applied to your design is incorrect. If you honestly think that it's "logical" that a damage recovery powerset would want greater power recovery as opposed to greater damage mitigation, then you obviously didn't apply more than just surface logic (and thereby are using flawed logic). If you honestly think that FH is providing one third of your regeneration, then you obviously didn't do the proper analysis.

Trying to encourage the same flawed logical processes in others is what I have a problem with. I haven't objected to anything you've said except where you have been explicitly wrong about what is most effective. I don't care if you slot up FH and completely ignore MoG. It's not my character that is being purposefully weakened (especially since you've now been informed why it is a comparative reduction in effectiveness in this thread, as opposed to checking all of the other */regen threads where this exact same discussion has gone on before).

I have a big problem with you insisting that the only difference is in playstyle or preference. There isn't. The difference actually generates different levels of survivability which I have been trying to tell you. If you're interested in getting optimized then you should pretty much ignore FH because it does almost nothing. If you're interested in sacrificing some of that optimization in order to have greater passive regeneration because you don't like using click powers, I'd first ask why you're playing */regen as opposed to */wp and then make sure that you know you're not doing what is optimal. If you're okay with having suboptimal options, then fine. At least you know you're doing something that is less than your potential output.

People should be making informed decisions about their builds, especially IO builds because they're going to be spending so much time/inf on them. Constantly asserting, without any evidence, that there is no difference between two slotting mentalities when it is a known fact that there is a difference is directly contradictory to ensuring that people know what is going on. If you simply stopped trying to prove your point by using loud noises and repetition rather than math, you might start seeming like less of an idiot/jack-***.

It's not pettiness that is making me constantly correct you: it's altruism. Other people that read this thread should know that the option you subscribe to is not optimal. Some of them might want to join you in taking that decision, others might not, but at least they would know what the comparative costs between the two options are.

#1 is entirely an issue with having decent writers for quests/missions/story arcs/etc. You can easily give players a sense of power and importance without allowing them to trash the universe at their whim. All you have to do is write the game as if, from the beginning, player characters are better than the average Joe.

As to #2, the only "perfectly balanced" system is one in which everyone has absolutely everything the other side does in the exact same magnitudes. You can achieve a close enough balance using comparative benefit equations, but it will never be "perfectly balanced" because you naturally have to arbitrarily assign hard values to naturally inconsistent variables in order to fit certain things into the balance equations (i.e. how much damage/survivability is a mag 3 hold the equivalent of?).

You can actually encourage team play without requiring it (though I believe that certain activities such as raids should still be restricted to team play in order to preserve the magnitude of the situation) by allowing every character the ability to solo respectably and making it so that nominally "team" tasks scale based upon team size. Soloing might require a completely different playstyle and strategy than is used in a team or by other characters, but it should at least be an option. This isn't to say that every character should be just as good at soloing as every other, but the binary "canSolo" should always be true. The additional benefit of teaming is always rather easy to accomplish because you simply have to allow characters to specialize (which is already pretty much what happens) and grant greater rewards for larger teams (which is true, on average). Of course, it's not as if CoX is unique in that is has encouraged teaming while simultaneously supporting soloability. Most MMOs have already subscribed to that mentality.

That's not so much the idea of phasing as it is the idea of conditionally changing environments, which we've got already with the Steel Canyon fires. Not that I wouldn't mind if they expanded their use of changing environments, especially if they made the events that trigger them more goal oriented (i.e. defeat Lusca before s/he can destroy the port; defeat the Ghost of Scrapyard before he and his mob can destroy X location).

An actual phasing mechanic (in which you actually load separate subsections of the zone; if you and someone else aren't within the same phase, you don't see or interact with each other) would work for areas that are supposed to undergo change based upon specific task completion, such as Boomtown (if a Boomtown repair story was ever formulated), Dark Astoria (if a "take back Astoria from the mist" story ever happened), or Faultline (if it was ever decided that you're supposed to be able to actually fix Faultline more than it already is).

The big problem with phasing is that it is incredibly server intensive. Rather than running a single zone/map, the server has to run a different map (or submap) at all times for every single conditional change as well as determining who can see whom and handling the increased populations of enemies (because allowing enemies to cross phases is both complicated and rather stupid). WoW gets away with a lot of this by utilizing a large number of smaller submaps rather than single large maps, but it's still very server intensive (just try heading into a phase intensive zone in WoW and you'll notice the lag immediately). Each individual submap of the larger area map phases independently of the others (it can be made contingent, but, mechanically, there isn't any need to make them as such). In order to have incremental zone changes, CoX would need to have separate phases for every combination of incremental change, which would generate massive coexistence problems thanks to all of the various phases. To do it well, the phases would most likely need to be changes to the entire zone, not just to small areas, or force the phasing to follow a single track (re: free the zones in DA in this order rather than getting to choose the order in which you free them).

Either way, you still have the problem that each "phase" would be, essentially, it's own map/zone that the server would be forced to track, not to mention that the "partway through the story phases" would require just as much work as generating any other map and would have only a tiny bit of facetime (because people would speed through the phases to get to the end one that the most people are within) which isn't really all that great for the cost:benefit analysis.

Most of the benefits of phasing can be accomplished rather easily by simply advancing the story of the zone, as was done with Faultline. You don't have all of the issues of "in the same zone but unable to interact" or the heavy server strain that phasing causes, and you still get most of the benefits. Of course, you don't get to play through the story of the fixing, but that can easily be accomplished by putting in a Calvin Scott style (re: exists for a single issue before the big change) contact/TF, and, upon release of the "zone update", turning it into an Ouro contact/TF, so that people can play it later on.

First off, you wouldn't be getting 200% from FH alone. You'd be getting ~75% +regen from FH (which you have to take), ~70% +regen from the enhancement in FH, and ~85% from the procs. You'd get the same benefit from those procs no matter what power you slotted them into. The only variability is the additional ~70% +regen that you'd get by slotting FH.

Secondly, that's not 1/3rd of your total regen. That's 1/3rd of your passive regeneration, completely ignoring Reconstruction, Dull Pain, and Instant Healing. Just looking at passive regeneration in terms of percent as opposed to total damage recovery in the form of hp/sec. At 500% +regen (i.e. 600% total regen) and hp cap, you'd be regenerating ~60 hp/sec. Reconstruction with 95% +heal on a 20 second cycle (215% +rech) is providing you 32.6 hp/sec. IH with 90% +heal on a 200 second cycle (225% +rech) is going to provide you an average of 441% +regen (~44 hp/sec). Dull Pain with 95% +heal on a 120 second cycle is going to provide another 8.8 hp/sec. In reality, that 200% is actually less than a seventh of your total damage recovery capability.

In comparison to every single one of the other major powers */regen has available to it, FH is pretty much nothing. Enhancing it is simply enhancing that proportion of nothing, which isn't particularly useful when you consider that every single other power is contributing more and that you can use those slots to enhance your damage mitigation capabilities to much better effect.

At the very least, I'd give it 3: LotG +rech and 2 common rech IOs. I generally give it the 4th slot just to drop the LotG def/rech in there (to bring the rech enhancement into the redzone and net a nice little +regen bonus in the process).

As to slotting FH, you'd be amazed at just how little it does, considering you've already got Recon, Integration, and Instant Healing, all of which contribute more hp/sec than FH ever will. FH is nice... it's just not enough to actually make the benefit noticeable within the confines of the rest of the set.

In Mids', at the top right, there are 3 buttons: "Mode: PvE/PvP", "Recipes:On/Off", and "Pop-Up:On/Off". If you have PvP mode turned on, you use PvP values rather than PvE values. PvP values are significantly different, which is why your build was showing ~30% +res to all damage types, when you should have had almost none.

You went "overkill" on it because you shouldn't need it that often. You could use the same logic for slotting Revive for +rech if you every took it because it has a 300 second recharge time. Just because it's on a long recharge doesn't necessarily mean that you need to slot the bejeesus out of it.

And whenever I see those builds, I /facepalm because they're completely undervaluing the incredible benefits of MoG. I wouldn't consider any of the builds mentioned optimized for survival (especially since so many of them decided to slot up either FH or Health, for whatever reason).

Yeah, I had a typo there. Meant to say +rech set bonus. Of course, if you followed my advice you'd actually net yourself more +rech because Obliteration has a 5% +rech bonus in there. 5% +rech set bonuses are the most common though. Don't be afraid to get rid of them, especially if you're sacrificing enhancement value to get them. The 2 Oblits in your AoEs and 3 Doctored Wounds in the */regen clickies are bringing you to the rule of 5 without having to place useless slots or mule anything.

I always come on strong, but that's because I'm a forceful personality. If I'm not coming on strong, then there is probably something wrong, especially if it's in a thread concerning something I know almost all there is to know about and feel rather strongly about.

Was that a copy-paste of my rectangle visualization or just a very similar rewrite? Some of it sounded like me, but I'm not entirely sure.

Well, first thing, you turned on PvP mode. Secondly, you grabbed +regen, which is next to useless for */regen in PvE thanks to the unholy gobs of damage recovery it has, and +hp, which is pretty much a waste because DP (which you've got perma) and the +hp accolades leave you within 2 +hp set bonuses of the cap. Third, you didn't grab much in the way of defense (AoE should be your absolute last priority), which is what you should be aiming for in PvE, right behind +rech.

As for a PvE build, you went a bit overkill on slotting CP, underslotted MoG, overslotted BU (the additional 2 slots for that 5% +def set bonus could be switched to your AoEs for Obliteration sets), and, even with your apparent predilection for endurance sustainability, didn't change your slots around to maximize your +recov benefits (PP with +recov procs is delicious). You know, just as a cursory analysis.

I'd be curious where you're coming up with that conclusion. Most of the people I know are actually amused by Nemesis and how he seems to have his fingers in absolutely everything. "It's all a Nemesis plot!" is funny explicitly because we know it's not always a Nemesis plot. Hell, it's even a comic book staple to have a Xanatos Chessmaster that has 50 convoluted infinitely grand plots working at all times.

While I don't think he should be orchestrating everything, it would be out of his character to, at the very least, not be involved in trying to take advantage of the major world/multiverse changing events taking place, even in some minor way. At least a minor presence and a few Nemesis inspired missions wouldn't be untowards, especially if they show Nemesis having to play catch up with the situation, which would be something completely new in game.

Behold the Calculator/Arithmetician. Killing your opponents with math! If you can work your way around the cripplingly bad speed (worst speed stat in the game, many other character will get to act twice to your once unless you spend a lot of energy to get around that), it's easily one of the most powerful jobs in the game.

As to the suggested powerset, I don't see much of a point for it. It seems to me that it could just as easily be an RP excuse for Sonic Resonance (you speak the formula and the universe responds; Liquefy would be what happens when you Divide by Zero) or Force Fields (those are bubbles of manipulated probability!), or almost any powerset with sufficient explanation. I'm reminded of an old fantasy series I read (but can't remember the name of) wherein math was actually fundamentally linked with magic in the specific universe, forcing those who wanted to be wizards to become expert mathematicians, capable of hurling fireballs with an uttered calculation.

It's roughly tied with */Energy in terms of the attacks (well, slightly better, thanks to having Shocking Grasp rather than Total Focus). What really pushes it ahead is that it has a damage aura, which provides an additional ~20 DPS.

Isn't that due entirely to the fact that resistance is its own resistance debuff? Whereas there are plenty of defense boosting powers, defense debuff resistance is almost entirely exclusive to defense powers within personal survival powersets.

Is it meant to be a PvP build?

Yes, but that's because 5 piece Doctored Wounds nets quite nice recharge enhancement as well as a 5% +rech set bonus. On some of my other, more slot hungry builds, I've pulled out 2 slots and just stuck with 3 common recharge IOs, but I prefer to get some set bonuses out of a power when possible.

I'm not sure I've seen 'em move, per se, considering they're supposed to be locked in place on their platforms, but I am pretty sure I've noticed them actually move very slowly up, down, and around as I jump around to beat on them. In fact, I'm pretty sure they have moved since I've pulled them down closer to the ground so that it would be easier to beat on them.

Well, the +tohit buff enhancement is pretty much a waste imo, since you should already be planning on (nearly) double stacking it with the FU>Focus>Slash>Strike attack chain. For FU, BU, DA, Parry, Siphon Life, and all of the other attacks that have external benefits, my universal recommendation is to first slot them as attacks. They're attacks first and foremost. Make sure you give them a decent bit of +acc so that they can hit (which you did), plenty of +dam so that they won't kill your DPS (which you didn't), enough recharge to get them up as often as you need them to be (in the case of FU and BF, this is roughly translated to "as much as possible", which you didn't), and only as much of whatever you use to enhance their tangential benefit as you can fit in without impinging on the other 3 traits.

What you may want to consider doing is taking some of your newly freed slots and giving FU either a Crushing Impact 5 piece or Mako's Bite 6 piece (I wouldn't do Touch of Death because it doesn't pack enough +rech). You're going to want to get the recharge down under 4.224 seconds in order to run the FU>Focus>Slash>Strike attack string (FU>Focus>Slash>Swipe would be better, but the recharge requirements increase to 3.96 seconds).

I generally try to make everyone defend their choices, but that's because I love a good debate and I think that everyone should be able to answer the question, "Why?". It's perfectly fine if you don't give a damn about what I'm saying, but I'm only saying it will generate better numbers. Some people wouldn't want to run a build designed by me even if it runs twice the DPS and three times the survivability capability because it's designed by me or simply because they don't find it to be fun, and I have no problem with that. If they want to persist in the misguided notion that their suboptimal build is just as effective as one that I've designed that actually has the numbers and results to support my conclusions, I do have a problem with that, especially if they're going to start trying to give advice based off of that build (which most idiot-optimizers have a tendency to do).