I have another "separate" question but I don't want to start a new thread.
Cobra Strike...
How useful is this power if you do not have Eagle's Claw nor Thunder Kick?
The best single target attack chain is:
SK -> Crane -> SK -> CAK (Fixed)
It takes a lot of recharge. Basically you need perma-Hasten which is kind of a pain in the butt to get.
Once your defenses are matured you shouldn't need Cobra Strike. Eagle's Claw is a better bet if you want a stun for PvP or to knock off toggles from annoying Lt enemies.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
i thought it was storm kick?
the best damage per second and the best damage per activation time is going to be crane kick -> storm kick -> repeat. only available to extremely high recharge builds.
for regular SO's and non-set IO's, your best chain is going to end up being storm kick -> crane kick -> storm kick -> crippling axe kick -> repeat. however, CaK is interchangeable with thunder kick x 2.
also, cobra strike is great single target mitigation. if you slot it up it's capable of keeping a mag 6 stun on a single target. but with the scrapper version of the set including dragon's tail for aoe knockdown, not sure how useful the single target stun will be. it does stack with EC (both have 3 mag stun) as well.
"Scrappers don't want the bit of dignity that Brutes left them taken away by (lol)Stalkers." -Delta_Strider, on Stalker buffs.
Current Project: Hard Goodbye, StJ/Nin
Retired: Blitzwulf, Claws/Nin (50); Perdition's Blade, Night Widow (50)
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Yes. You mean it isn't clear that "TK" refers to Storm Kick? |
Originally Posted by Swift_Frost
i thought it was storm kick?
|
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
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Wait, you got a 10 second Crane Kick recharge down to ~1 second Storm Kick activation time? Is that even possible?
| the best damage per second and the best damage per activation time is going to be crane kick -> storm kick -> repeat. only available to extremely high recharge builds. |
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
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It's not possible. You can only reduce a power's recharge to one fifth of its original recharge time. I'm fairly confident that Blitz doesn't know the math, much less what the capabilities of certain builds are.|
Originally Posted by Moonlighter
Wait, you got a 10 second Crane Kick recharge down to ~1 second Storm Kick activation time? Is that even possible?
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Storm>Crane>Storm>CAK (which is actually the optimal attack string without requiring extensive outside buffs) isn't possible with SOs. Storm Kick requires 225% +rech in order to recharge fast enough to run that string. 70% from Hasten and, assuming you slot fully for recharge, 95% from slotting. 165% +rech is still 60% +rech short of the required numbers.
As to suggesting that Crane Kick is interchangable with 2 applications of Thunder Kick, that's completely ignoring the fact that power's don't start recharging until they finish animating, which means that you can't use Thunder Kick twice in a row without having a period of dead time, which is going to castrate your DPS. Of course, this is completely ignoring the fact that Thunder Kick has atrocious DPA and should never see any use in a decent attack string.
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yes, it is, or at least near enough that you won't notice the gap. it depends on how much you want to invest in the character, as well as your secondary set and what it can hold. i'm currently working on a MA/Nin stalker that (without purples in the build) has about ten seconds of hasten overlap and about 35%-ish global damage increase. |
Originally Posted by Moonlighter
Wait, you got a 10 second Crane Kick recharge down to ~1 second Storm Kick activation time? Is that even possible?
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[edited to add: umbral is correct and beat me to posting anyway. i was going off mid's numbers at work, and i'm not sure if mid's takes into account the recharge cap. also, umbral, i was talking about crippling axe kick, not crane kick, being interchangable. and with good procs in thunder kick some people might consider replacing crippling axe kick's long animation time for two quick proc'd attacks.]
[edit 2: it was the force feedback proc throwing things off in mid's. crane kick recharging 4s but could be brought down a bit with enough insanity and money.]
"Scrappers don't want the bit of dignity that Brutes left them taken away by (lol)Stalkers." -Delta_Strider, on Stalker buffs.
Current Project: Hard Goodbye, StJ/Nin
Retired: Blitzwulf, Claws/Nin (50); Perdition's Blade, Night Widow (50)
As said above, the optimal MA attack chain is:
Storm Kick -> Crane Kick -> Storm Kick -> Crippling Axe Kick
This assumes +225% recharge in Storm Kick (and comparable +recharge in the other attacks) so that there are no gaps in the chain.
Provided you can get enough recharge, you can get away with just getting Storm Kick, Crane Kick, Crippling Ax Kick, and Dragon's Tail as your attacks. I personally would also get Eagle's Claw for the burst damage and the cool animation, but a good enough build can get by without it.
As for Cobra Strike, it is best used as a mitigation tool at the lower, maybe to the mid-, levels. At higher levels, you really don't need it, since Eagle's Claw takes care of most of your stunning needs. If you are making a minimal attack build, then dropping Cobra Strike would be first attack to drop before any others. If you do want to get, you 'll have to slot it to make it even remotely useful, and then also determine when and where to use to it.
Check out my signature for my Martial Arts guide, which has a section on Attack Chains, as well as bonus section on using Cobra Strike.
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It does, assuming that you're capable of netting 400% +rech through some obscene mechanism. Even with the Force Feedback proc (100%), max slotting (95%), Quickness (20%), and Hasten (70%), you'd need to net 115% +rech from IOs in order to reach the cap. Even with LotGs and purple sets, that's a pretty unlikely proposition.| edited to add: umbral is correct and beat me to posting anyway. i was going off mid's numbers at work, and i'm not sure if mid's takes into account the recharge cap. |
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| also, umbral, i was talking about crippling axe kick, not crane kick, being interchangable. and with good procs in thunder kick some people might consider replacing crippling axe kick's long animation time for two quick proc'd attacks. |
Secondly, Thunder Kick has a base DPA of 54.7 and an animation time of 1.056 seconds. CAK has a base DPA of 61.1 and an animation time of 1.848 seconds. Ignoring the fact that it would have to recharge and assuming you slot Thunder Kick with 1 more non-purp proc (71.8 damage, 20% proc chance) than you would have put into CAK and both powers with 95% +dam, the two powers would be roughly the same (Thunder Kick would take ~15% more time to deal ~15% more damage). Of course, this is still a horrible idea because you're talking about allowing the lowest DPA power in the attack string take up even more time.
In order to increase your DPS, you're best served by decreasing the time you use sub-optimal DPA powers. Using up 2 proc'd up Thunder Kicks rather than a single normally slotted up CAK is taking up an additional quarter of a second than could be used to use your best DPA attack (Storm Kick) which is going to be a not insignificant drain (~5% lower DPS), not to mention that fact that you'd be losing a bit on the set bonus front.
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| edit 2: it was the force feedback proc throwing things off in mid's. crane kick recharging 4s but could be brought down a bit with enough insanity and money. |
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that's where i started to go wrong. /bonk. anyway sorry for the thread jack.|
Originally Posted by Umbral
powers don't begin recharging until they're done animating.
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i was thinking, in mid's it shows the activation time on thunder kick at 0.83s. i was comparing that to axe kick's 1.6s. thanks for shedding light on that, i hadn't thought of it the way you mentioned.
"Scrappers don't want the bit of dignity that Brutes left them taken away by (lol)Stalkers." -Delta_Strider, on Stalker buffs.
Current Project: Hard Goodbye, StJ/Nin
Retired: Blitzwulf, Claws/Nin (50); Perdition's Blade, Night Widow (50)
Quote:
Also, keep in mind that the listed animation times are actually inappropriate to use for DPS/DPA calculations. You need to account for the server ticks (re: everything happens in .132 second intervals) and the change of state from animating to ready to animate (re: 1 more server tick than normal). The fully accounted (generally referred to as Arcanatime) cast times are actually 1.056 and 1.848 seconds, respectively. The formula for the calculation is ((roundUp(baseRech/.132)+1)*.132).
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Originally Posted by Blitzwulf
that's where i started to go wrong. /bonk. anyway sorry for the thread jack.
i was thinking, in mid's it shows the activation time on thunder kick at 0.83s. i was comparing that to axe kick's 1.6s. thanks for shedding light on that, i hadn't thought of it the way you mentioned. |
Go Blaze Mastery for even more DPS!
SK -> Fire Blast -> SK -> CK -> Repeat!
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
OK, I'm not an expert and this advice is wrong wrong wrong, but here's what I do/did.
After locking on and hitting F, get Eagle set to go. I'm not a DPS freak, and even if I was, Eagle is still a nice thing, even with the Wiley Coyote hover before the actual strike. Crane and storm are liberally applied as they come up, DDR style if you want to call it that. For single target mitigation I put Air Sup on them.
I like and use Dragon, but I don't like or use it that much. I don't take CAK due to dorky movement factors. Oh, lord, they need to fix that animation. Those movements look so bad it's worse than just hitting random when you make your costume.
Have fun with the MA. You aren't the most powerful, but you look the coolest doing it. And listen to Spider Teo and read his guide, very useful.
ETA: Oh, and listen to Umbral too, even though his avi makes me always think he's mad.
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Cuz, you know, everyone has 314% +rech in Storm Kick. Not to mention that, when you actually calculate the DoT ticks correctly (Mids' doesn't because it assume that the DoTs will all have a chance to proc rather than requiring all previous ticks to have landed), CAK (61.1) is better DPA than Fire Blast (59.7).
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Go Blaze Mastery for even more DPS!
SK -> Fire Blast -> SK -> CK -> Repeat! |
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Umbral...|
Originally Posted by Umbral
Cuz, you know, everyone has 314% +rech in Storm Kick. Not to mention that, when you actually calculate the DoT ticks correctly (Mids' doesn't because it assume that the DoTs will all have a chance to proc rather than requiring all previous ticks to have landed), CAK (61.1) is better DPA than Fire Blast (59.7).
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What is the best attack chain and the recharge needed ony using Storm Kick, Crane Kick and Crippling Axe Kick?
Quote:
Storm>Crane>Storm>CAK|
Originally Posted by Vitality
Umbral...
What is the best attack chain and the recharge needed ony using Storm Kick, Crane Kick and Crippling Axe Kick? |
225% +rech in Storm Kick. Storm Kick is the best DPA attack in the set, so the entire point is to devote as much time as possible to it within reason. Storm>Crane>Storm>Fire Blast is actually better, but it requires a godawful amount of +rech.
And here's what went through my brain when I saw this:
"But don't epics require redraw? Of your feet? Uh... wow, that was dumb."
(Edit: OMG, I just noticed your sig! You just made my day. )
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
Do you mean mad crazy or mad angry? I'm one of those constantly and the other only frequently. I'll let you guess which |
Originally Posted by Postagulous
ETA: Oh, and listen to Umbral too, even though his avi makes me always think he's mad.
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Obviously my new project is a MA/WP.
I'm looking for a single target attack chain with the least ammount of powers.
I'm wondering if I will be able to get by with just Storm Kick, Crane Kick and Crippling Axe Kick...and Dragon's Tail for AoE.
What attack chain, and how much recharge is needed for Storm Kick, Crane Kick and Crippling Axe Kick?
Thanks in advance.