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Quote:How does that solve anything? You're talking about diversifying the secondary effects a tiny bit and that's somehow better than providing Aim functionality? Seriously, do you have any idea what you're talking about at all?My idea? Give Swap Ammo more ammo types to choose from. Negative Energy damage coupled with a to-hit debuff. Energy damage coupled with guaranteed KB on a few powers.
And I'm sure there are a few other things you could do. And you could make Swap Ammo give you a small defiance boost when you switch types.
Tohit is no stronger than -dam and it's less useful against stronger targets. There already is a KB secondary effect available so doubling up on secondary effects is completely redundant. A Defiance boost on the Ammo powers would be a complete joke because they have a .63 second animation time (4.1% +dam).
Those changes wouldn't do anything to appreciably improve performance. Your argument that somehow Aim is worse for the set because the AoEs are DoTs (regardless of the fact that they're DoTs that don't even last 2 seconds so they're not even numerically calculated as DoTs) is a complete joke as well.
Apparently your only problem is that the Aim fix isn't "creative" enough and that is simply just ******* stupid. I keep hearing "needs to be more creative" from all kinds of people about fixes for all kinds of things and yet, for some reason, it's never the people that actually come up with ideas that are actually useful that say such things. "Creative" is just a neophyte's buzzword for "I don't like things that we already know work".
If you have to say that a solution needs to be more "creative" give me a reason that it needs to be more creative. Give me a reason (and back it up with more than just idiotic drivel that doesn't even make internal sense beyond a complete inability to actually empirically gather information) and then support it. I call tell you with a strong degree of assurance that the Aim change would be a vastly bigger improvement than your "creative" solution that isn't even all that creative (more ammo types? really? that's been suggested since the very first beta runthrough. Incendiary is still going to be the only viable ammo for 99% of play regardless).
Go ahead and be creative but don't act like those of us that believe in using the Aim solution aren't somehow creative. Don't act like any solution that doesn't meet your arbitrary qualifier of "creative" is somehow flawed simply because we know it actually works (and, yes, we know it works). Try to actually think about what you're doing to the set and what end result you want before you simply claim that something is wrong because every other set has it.
Dual Pistols is already a different enough set simply because it has variable effects (and one explicitly unique effect). Just because you want it to be more different due to some arbitrary desire when you don't even know how to what to do doesn't mean that making a set more akin to those sets that are actually fully effective would somehow be bad. All it means is that you have no clue what you want except that you don't like what you've already got. Just because it's different doesn't mean it's good or useful.
Hell, if anything, Aim actually adds something to Dual Pistols' gameplay because it forces you to actually use a click power situationally rather than just turn a toggle on and run (which is all that DP has at the moment). Adding more toggles doesn't add anything to the existing gameplay because the existing toggles barely see any use beyond Incendiary Ammo. Adding a Defiance buff to the toggles wouldn't make people any more willing to hot switch between them unless you want to force them to bounce between 6 different toggles for 7 seconds before the fight begins so that they can get less than half of the +dam effect of Aim. All that you've suggested doesn't make the set any better, much less any different than it already is.
Alll that you're suggesting more of the same that we know doesn't contribute appreciably. At least my suggestion actually provides meaningful improvement (regardless of the fact that you're apparently too oblivious to note it). -
"Hard-coded gimmicks are" actually substantially more common than you might expect. Critical, Scourge, the Dual Blades combos, and many, many others are just as hard coded so it's not like "hard-coded gimmicks" are somehow a bad thing.
Quote:B. You get incentive to build and slot a certain way to improve your abilities.
HoB already presents all of the same slotting incentives that every other power in the game does in the exact same ways. The fact that it has chances to deal damage doesn't change that at all. If it were changed as you suggest, you'd be providing more ways to improve it than there already are so you'd be making it better than it already is for no particular reason. -
Quote:The jury is out on whether Archery (or DP) is going to get some dev attention (either Arch down or, more likely, DP up) but, yes, the difference between Arch and DP is going to be rather noticeable even before 50 simply because RoA is friggin' nuts. You can close the gap a bit with Incendiary Ammo, but you're still going to lag behind. There's also the issue that you don't get Aim with DP, so you're going to be missing a bit of burst damage capability.My question is, is the power gap between Archery and DP large enough to either be noticable at 50, or to be a likely candidate for dev rebalancing in the future?
Quote:(I'm also pondering because Rain of Arrows looks stupidly awesome and powerful compared to Hail of Bullets. Could be wrong on this point though--Mids' says Rain does more damage AND has a shorter recharge AND is ranged, compared to Hail. Is this for real?) -
Quote:Let me say this to you slowly because apparently you're not reading anything I'm posting in an intelligent manner (i.e. reading what I'm posting rather than what you want me to post). You aren't even staying internally consistent, much less actually applicable as you argue this.But your argument as I read it was that an Assault/Defence AT would do less damage than a Blaster and have less survivability than a Scrapper, so why bother getting that if you could get either of those. To which I respond with the question of why get a Dominator when a Blaster deals more damage and a Defender supports better. If a Dominator, who is the mid-point between Defender and Blaster, can still be useful as a generalist character, then why couldn't a Support/Defence AT, which is the mid-point between a Blaster and Scrapper, get the same treatment?
Blasters are useful on teams because they provide lots of damage. Scrappers are also useful because they provide lots of damage. Blasters have range to keep them out of the ranges that would cause them to get killed. Scrappers have the defense to keep themselves alive while in melee. Blasters and Scrappers are balanced functionally.
Corruptors deal more damage than Defenders, but Defenders have better support capability. Corrupters and Defenders are balanced functionally. Controllers have lower damage and high support capability but support less than Defenders and on par with Corrupters. The three ATs are balanced functionally. Dominators deal more damage than any of the previous ATs but only offer support through control capabilities rather than direct support. The 4 ATs are balanced functionally.
The proposed ranged/armor AT (or assault/armor) would have to have lower damage than Blasters to prevent making Blasters irrelevant. It would also have to have lower survivability than Stalkers to prevent making Stalkers irrelevant (since, theoretically, Stalker and Blaster damage is roughly tied). Because of this, you get an AT that deals less damage than a Blaster and is squishier than a Stalker. Because of this, there is no reason to bring the AT onto a team because you could get any other damage based AT and deal more damage with less risk to the individual (because, as you have stated, the set would need to flit between ranged and melee).
Was that a simple enough explanation for you or should I go over it again (for at least the third time in this thread)?
Quote:I think you mean "Brutes" in the first sentence.
Quote:And my beef is between Blasters and Scrappers. Scrappers can't really tank (I've tried, not on a build that isn't specially designed for that) well enough to play the tank, and they deal markedly less damage than Blasters. They have self-protection capabilities, but how do their self-protection capabilities help a team in such a way that more damage wouldn't?
Quote:If it bothers you, I can refrain from doing this to you in the future. Just say the word.
I have no problem with people attempting to find problems with my ideas and suggestions. I actively encourage it, if only by being a jackass so that people that I anger feel the need to overanalyze everything I say in an attempt to prove me incorrect (what? you think I'm incapable of being nice?). The fact that 99% of the time I'm having to explain a topic again (rather than having to defend my position) just because the people that disagree didn't understand me the first time I explained the topic lends a bit of credence to that argument. If you want to prove me wrong, it doesn't help your position when your flawed grasp of the situation is being pointed out by the guy you disagree with.
Quote:That's not an argument to proclaim team-only powers as useless and worthless, but more so to proclaim them useless and worthless WHEN SOLO.
Right... Viable AT design meet Sam. Sam meet viable AT design. Is this the first time you've ever met?
Quote:The point of an Assault/Defence set, at least how I'd design it, is to provide a unique experience of fighting at all ranges via inherent powers designed to alternate between benefiting each.
Quote:AT to be rewarded for sometimes fighting from range and sometimes fighting in melee, but never encouraged to just pick one at the expense of the other. -
That's kind of the point. Kheldians are a remarkably unpopular AT to bring into groups.
Quote:In fact, why even bring Corruptors to a team right now when you can take Defenders or Blasters, instead?
Quote:I don't see why an AT that provides less damage than a Blaster but can protect itself is immediately cast aside as worthless. After all, that's very much what Blasters are, to say nothing of Brutes.
Quote:Is it really worth splitting hairs on whether the primary is "ranged" or "assault" when a mix of melee and ranged combat has always been the theme here?
Quote:And beyond that, I don't believe you'll ever be able to convince me, specifically, that a Ranged/Defence AT should include support in any fashion. Even if that's numerically balanced, it's not something I want. Given how Shield Defence turned out, I am not interested in any more of that. -
Quote:I can tell you right now that it wasn't an oversight by the devs because Castle explicitly stated that it was given only positional defense for the exact reasons I've given you. What I've told you has been paraphrased versions of exactly what Castle said on the subject when it was brought up.Below is why I think this was an oversight on behalf of the devs and I'll see if I can draw someones attention to it.
Quote:I remember that - it sucked. Certain combinations were virtually useless which is exactly what happens if a DP player chooses a defensive armor that is available to him.
Quote:* Devices/Cloaking Device which is thematically an avoidance power provides Def(All) - presumably for balance reasons
Quote:The avoidance buff fitted the bill but I'm pretty convinced that it was an oversight that this effectively provides zero benefit to players who chose defensive APPs.
Quote:As I said, I believe this issue to be an oversight since no AT has defensive options inherently available to the AT that don't mesh. -
If it was done that way (which is actually what I've suggested numerous times when the issue of a "ranged/armor" AT is brought up), I think the devs would likely just rather create an entirely new basic AT with powersets drawn from existing powers rather than an EAT, especially if it's not really adding anything new (other than an AT). I can only assume that I've convinced you that, rather than having an AT that is simply ranged/armor, it would be better to have one that is assault/(armor + support) because of gameplay issues.
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I just checked CoD and the Envenom listed there doesn't have the tag so it should be enhanceable since -regen and +regen are simply two sides of the same coin.
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Quote:GFS>Incinerate>Cremate is the best attack string out there because GFS is actually an incredibly good attack, if only because it's not relying heavily on DoT damage to kill targets like the other two attacks in that string. Incinerate>Scorch>Cremate>Scorch is a close second that's a lot easier to manage, but GFS is still a good enough attack to justify taking.Fiery Mele -> Incinerate and Cremate are amazing but GFS doesnt look so great on the paper. Fire sword PBAoE has one of the best DPA/DPC (Damage per animation/damage per cycle). One of my problem with Fiery is also the lack of knock options to slot up with Force Feedback procs.
The lack of knock effects isn't really all that telling simply because the Force Feedback proc is a bit of a joke. It's a 10% chance for 100% +rech for 5 seconds with a 10 second enforced downtime on the proc (i.e. it procs and it won't check again for the next 10 seconds). Assuming you make 2 attempts every 10 seconds, you're only getting ~9.5% +rech from that slot, one that you could be using to substantially better effect elsewhere in all likelihood.
Quote:But I'm afraid the lack of pure damage on Soaring Dragon and Golden Dragonfly may be an issue at hight level of gear (with like 150%+ global recharge).
Quote:Claws -> Very descent DPC but DPA is quite bad on all attacks.
Quote:Dark Mele -> Probably one of the best balance but no build up and no AoE (that you can relay on for damage) makes it almost only good with /Fire (and I dont want to be FA again
Quote:Kin Mele -> Stats are very average. Maybe Power Siphon makes the difference, I cant tell. -
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Quote:Not really. Consider how useful the FF buffs would be to an SR or Shield Scrapper if they were typed. Because only the highest of typed or positional is used, FF would be virtually useless to a positional defense user so the defense is generalized to make it useful to anyone and everyone.But ally buffs were always useful just were different in usefulness depending on what the target already had available.
Quote:In this case the only real defense a blaster has available is coming from the Epic Pools and are either Frozen Armor or Scorpion Shield both of which have no positional component.
You're also ignoring the fact that there is a thematic definition to typed and positional defense. Typed defense is reserved for effects that are intended to represent an incoming blow bouncing off of you harmlessly while positional defense is intended to represent dodging an incoming blow. The Hail of Bullets dance isn't going to have attacks bouncing off of you harmlessly just like SR isn't going to suddenly manifest typed defense either.
You can try to argue "but it wouldn't hurt" all you want, but the devs have been pretty steadfast with their position on native defense buffs compared to external defense buffs: native defense buffs are specific because they're your baseline while external defense buffs are general because they're expected to modify the baseline regardless of what that baseline operates off of. -
Quote:You are correct. It is only positional defense.I just noticed for the first time that Hail of Bullets grants the user +Defense but it looks like it is only positional and not typed. Can someone tell me whether this is correct? And if so, should it be this way?
Quote:I remember that certain powers were modified (i.e. Combat Jumping) to include all types and all positions so that they would stack regardless what buffs are applied to the player. I don't see a reason why this shouldn't apply here... -
Quote:It depends on what you plan on fighting.I'm trying to decide if this is a power worth taking given the +acc Archers already get.
Archery is 15.5% more accurate than standard (1.155 accmod). Targeting Drone provides 13.875% +tohit. Because of the formula to determine your chance to hit, Archery, thanks to its higher accmod, is going to get more out of Targeting Drone than other sets will.
Assuming that you plan on slotting up Targeting Drone, you'd be getting 21.645% +tohit from it. Without slotting any acc in your Arch attacks, you'll be managing a 95% chance to hit against +0s and +1s and an 89.7% chance to hit +2s. With a single slot, you'd be getting a 95% chance to hit against all enemies up to 4 levels above you.
No matter what you plan on fighting, Targeting Drone is going to save you a lot of slots. If you don't plan on fighting above +0-1s, then take Targeting Drone and revel in the fact that you've got 1 more slot to spend in all of your attacks (for a sweet 3 dam/2-3 rech/0-1 end redux set up). If you do plan on fighting higher level enemies, you can be secure in the knowledge that you're pretty much guaranteed to be hitting anything you can imagine.
Personally, I would take Targeting Drone if only because it saves you the slots. It's just like getting 1-2 "free" slots in all of your attacks at the cost of a single power and the 3-6 slots that you invest in it. This is also ignoring the fact that it provides a not insignificant amount of tohit debuff resistance, which means that when the rest of your friends are whiffing against the hordes of ghosts, you'll still be hitting them. -
Quote:Are you suggesting that the devs make an EAT that doesn't have a backstory even though they've explicitly stated that the "epic" in "epic archetype" refers to the backstory of the AT rather than the capabilities of the AT? If it doesn't have an overarching backstory and it doesn't have a real role on a team, what's the point of spending all of the effort to develop it in the first place? And, even more, why would the devs want to arbitrarily make a DP/Armor EAT when they've shown no special proclivity to making EATs that aren't multitaskers of some kind (and a DP/Armor AT would definitely be a monotasker unless it was designed to alternate between ranged damage and ranged tanking) or are using powers largely unique to that EAT (which it wouldn't really do because you're asking for the EAT to explicitly use an existing blast set)?Set it up as an epic AT without the backstory of HEATS and VEATS.
You still haven't tackled the issue of "what is it supposed to do on a team" either. Just saying "make it an EAT" doesn't deal with that issue. Khelds were intended to be JOATs that could flit between roles (blaster/scrapper/tanker and blaster/controller/tanker) and SoAs are designed to be damage dealers with low maintenance support capabilities. If it's going to be made into an EAT, there would still need to be some justification for it within the confines of the game. -
Quote:Asking other players to note differences in individual player damage output on a team is like asking 5-year-olds to explain the difference between a mile and a kilometer: they'll be able to tell that one is bigger than the other but they'll be hard pressed to actually tell you with any accuracy what the difference is. Differences in damage output are incredibly hard to quantify without assistance. Just because you're not attracting attention on a team for not having BU/Aim doesn't mean that the team wouldn't be better served if you did have it. There's also the big issue that BU/Aim's primary role within the confines of the powerset design isn't an issue on a team: BU/Aim are most useful to blasters when damage needs to be frontloaded to prevent them from dying. On a team, there isn't any spectacular need to frontload damage heavily because there are people whose job it is to stand there and take damage for the team.Of note: Since I dropped Aim and Build Up I have teamed quite a bit with those 2 characters and so far NO ONE has complained that I wasn't doing enough damage. In fact I strongly suspect that no one even realized I didn't have them.
Quote:So, if not having and using Aim on sets that have it didn't lower my performance to any significant degree on a team (or solo for that matter, I use the animation time that would have been spent on Aim and Build Up to fire another attack or two), why should I expect adding Aim to significantly increase it?
Quote:It's kind of like saying giving Energy Aura a damage aura will fix the problems with it because similar sets have a damage aura and they're just fine.
If you agree that DP needs something to counteract the lack of Aim, I'm open to other ideas. Can you honestly think of something else that makes up for the lack of Aim without completely screwing up the design of the set and generates appropriate returns so as not to interfere with the overall balance of the set? I'd be curious to see your recommendations since, honestly, I haven't heard anything that appropriately addresses the problem from anyone that works better than simply providing [Swap Ammo] with short term +dam capability. -
Quote:It depends on what other sets had in exchange for not having Aim. AR gets an extra AoE in exchange for Aim. Dark Blast gets an AoE stun (which I doubt will be proliferated, but it's what the only version we can currently play with gets). Dual Pistols doesn't really get anything for sacrificing Aim: Swap Ammo does nothing but allow you to access the basic schtick of the set.If the power Aim didn't exist at all, if it were never in any of the other blast sets, would you be saying "This powerset needs an accuracy and damage boosting power on a long recharge that lasts for 10 seconds"?
Quote:Or are you saying it needs Aim simply because other powersets have it?
Quote:You even said yourself that Dual Pistols has some good points.
Quote:A powerset does not have to be mathmatically superior in order to be fun to play. If that were the case, everyone would be playing whichever set was determined to be numerically the best.
Quote:Personally, I kind of LIKE the fact that Dual Pistols doesn't have Aim.
Quote:I have NEVER asked "Does this set have Aim?" in deciding what set to play. And I can't imagine that all that many people do asked that question.
Quote:I'm getting the feeling that the devs are trying to get away from every set relying on the crutch of Aim and/or Build Up.
Quote:So, in short, I disagree that Dual Pistols not having Aim is a problem.
The only legitimate reason (i.e. not just because you like not having it) you could possibly argue that DP doesn't need some kind of buff to account for the loss of Aim is if you think that it's somehow strong enough already when pretty much anyone that knows anything will present evidence both theoretical and empirical demonstrating that it's simply not even close to being that strong. -
Quote:I've found HoB to be an excellent power for clearing out large mobs in between uses of my other two AoEs (I'm not counting Piercing Rounds because that's an AoE in the same sense that Headsplitter is an AoE). Even as a PbAoE, it's still useful because you can open with Empty Clips, close into range while using Bullet Rain, and then activate Hail of Bullets while your other two AoEs are recharging. Even with the long animation, HoB is still a better use of your animation time than ST attacks because of the number of targets that it hits. With Incendiary Ammo turned on, Hail of Bullets actually hits harder on average than Rain of Arrows does (of which the animation time is roughly the same).The problem with Hail of Bullets is that it suffers from the "Energy Melee problem" - the power has a stupidly long animation which makes using it a very poor option in most cases (the comparison to Energy Melee here is specifically Energy Transfer, but also Total Focus to a point). Even the defense buff granted while the power is activating doesn't make up for this, and it's really more useful for show than it is for actually killing mobs.
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Quote:The problem isn't making it balanced. The problem is making it balanced while still providing a reason for the AT to exist within the confines of the game (yes, it's a game; concept and theme are all well and good, but when it comes down to it, it's a game first and foremost before it's a superhero simulator). The only way to properly balance out the ability to have ranged capabilities and full on survivability is to drop damage or survivability. If that happens, then there isn't a functional role that the AT plays within the confines of the team beyond "soloer". Every AT fulfills some explicit role (or more than one): damage, support, and personal survival (each AT has some portion of each role to different extents).The base truth of the matter is that it IS possible to make a Blast(Or Assault)/Armour AT without over-powering to the point of Tankmagery.
If you trade away some portion of your damage or survivability for the ranged advantage (which you would have to do because otherwise you're getting something for nothing), there isn't a point to bringing the new AT because anything it does is done better by the pre-existing AT.
Every suggestion I have ever seen for a ranged/armor AT falls prey to this argument: if you create a balanced version of a ranged/armor AT (balanced both internally and against the existing ATs it would be competing against), there isn't a point in bringing one because whatever it brings to the party is brought more effectively by someone else. The only role it would really fulfill would be soloing, and the devs aren't likely to make an AT that pretty much only exists to solo.
It's because of this issue that whenever I see this suggestion (generally draped in the mantle of "we need it because I have a character concept" rather than anything resembling an actual reason that the game needs such an AT due to a role not being filled), I counter with a suggestion to create an AT that is assault/(armor + support). Even with damage low enough to justify an armored ranged attacker, there is a reason to bring them to a team because they're providing force multiplication coupled with a reason for the AT to actually have higher survivability (because it's designed to spend some portion of time in melee where the higher survivability is actually needed). There isn't a justification within the confines of the game (as a game, not as a superhero simulator) for there to be an AT with the ability to stay out of danger (ranged damage) coupled with the ability to stay in danger (survivability set) because they're both present explicitly to solve the same problem: how to deal with incoming damage. -
Quote:"Uses Armor" does not necessarily mean that the character would have a survivability set. Even at level 1, Blasters can shrug off a shotgun blast or two to the face, so it's not like the Blasters are as squishy as a civilian would be (were they not simply immune to everything). Iron Man could quite easily be a Blaster (likely Energy/Dev or Energy/Energy depending on the writer) and simply use the durability of his armor to represent the fact that he can shrug off a few bullets before he goes down.Yeah I know what you mean. Iron Man commonly uses ranged attacks, and well he uses armor.
If you want canon demonstrations, Positron lives in a suit of armor and is a Rad/Rad Defender/Corruptor. He's not some special Rad/Invuln combination due to the fact that he lives in a suit of armor. The armor makes his normally humanly squishy body resilient enough to actually go out and hero about. -
Quote:First, it's not a worthless taunt aura. If it was worthless, you wouldn't see people picking it up asap. It is a massively powerful taunt aura with a weak taunt effect.In my opinion there's nothing in WP's strengths to justify a worthless taunt aura.
Second, I'm not sure what you're looking at, but I can find plenty of reasons for WP to have a weaker taunt effect. WP is, quite simply, the strongest fully functional armor set in the game: it has a pittance of animation time consumption, excellent survivability, exotic mez protection, and no endurance issues. The set has no weakness from a survivability standpoint. The only weakness that WP has is that it has a weak taunt aura.
As has been pointed out repeatedly, all survivability sets have some weakness that you must tackle: Shields, Elec, and Fire have low baseline survivability, DA has endurance issues, Stone has mobility and damage output issues, and Invuln and Ice are jokes against psi. Willpower has none of those problems and actually lists the counter to 3 of those as explicit advantages (awesome v. psi, high baseline survivability, excellent endurance). The only "weakness" it has is a weak taunt effect in its taunt aura, and that's insanely easy to work around as a tank thanks to gauntlet and Taunt. -
Quote:The numbers putting it in the middle when using Incendiary Ammo (i.e. all damage and nothing else). Standard rounds are slightly below average, but makes up for it with -res. Cryo and Chem ammo are a good deal below below.So your numbers putting DP in the middle are compared to all the other sets as if none of them have Aim. Hmmm. Interesting.
I all honestly, I have to agree that it would make more sense to just give out the ammo toggles right from the start (since the "secondary effect" of the set is, in fact, the ability to change secondary effects and slightly alter your damage type) and turn Swap Ammo into some kind of Aim clone. I really don't care how exactly it's accomplished, but the set should get Aim functionality somewhere. -
Quote:I already have a DP character that I leveled to 50, so I know what I'm talking about. I also have no problem making suggestions on the forum for problems that exist in sets that there are no real reasons for the continued existence of said problem. If the logic of "just don't play it if you don't like it" were applied to everything, nothing would ever get changed. I "complain" because there is a problem with the set that needs to be remedied.If you don't like it, don't play it. Play something you DO like instead of complaining on the forums about a set you probably still won't play anyway.
And, yes, the lack of Aim is a problem. -
No, Aim would make it perform at the levels that have been number crunched for it (since I haven't seen numbers that anyone else released comparing it to other blast sets and my assumptions ignored Aim because the only set without Aim was AR and I knew it would be a joke from the beginning). Aim isn't going to make any middling set top tier, since it only comprises a ~20% +dam boost (roughly a 7% increase in damage output) well slotted.
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Quote:And that argument makes sense. Until you realize that there's no reason for the set to not have Aim, that is.If you don't like the fact that Dual Pistols doesn't have Aim....don't play it.
Swap Ammo could be given Aim functionality while preserving everything else in the set because it's a shell power as it stands. The argument works for AR simply because, in order to provide the set with Aim, it would have to lose something. DP would lose nothing to get Aim, and it's pretty easily demonstrable that the change wouldn't make DP any stronger than any other set out there (since it's middling at the moment and that's ignoring the use of Aim in the first place) and might actually allow it to be a set that is actually a numerical competitor rather than one that simply survives based off of aesthetics. -