Nope, you don't need it, not for the +ToHit in PvE. I take it anyway though, and six-slot it for the Gaussian set.
If you PvP though, it's very nice for the +Perception.
Global name: @k26dp
No I don't much if any PvP so the +perception doesn't really do much for me. What does the Gaussian set give you that makes it worth taking?
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It depends on what you plan on fighting.|
Originally Posted by Deathstroke33
I'm trying to decide if this is a power worth taking given the +acc Archers already get.
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Archery is 15.5% more accurate than standard (1.155 accmod). Targeting Drone provides 13.875% +tohit. Because of the formula to determine your chance to hit, Archery, thanks to its higher accmod, is going to get more out of Targeting Drone than other sets will.
Assuming that you plan on slotting up Targeting Drone, you'd be getting 21.645% +tohit from it. Without slotting any acc in your Arch attacks, you'll be managing a 95% chance to hit against +0s and +1s and an 89.7% chance to hit +2s. With a single slot, you'd be getting a 95% chance to hit against all enemies up to 4 levels above you.
No matter what you plan on fighting, Targeting Drone is going to save you a lot of slots. If you don't plan on fighting above +0-1s, then take Targeting Drone and revel in the fact that you've got 1 more slot to spend in all of your attacks (for a sweet 3 dam/2-3 rech/0-1 end redux set up). If you do plan on fighting higher level enemies, you can be secure in the knowledge that you're pretty much guaranteed to be hitting anything you can imagine.
Personally, I would take Targeting Drone if only because it saves you the slots. It's just like getting 1-2 "free" slots in all of your attacks at the cost of a single power and the 3-6 slots that you invest in it. This is also ignoring the fact that it provides a not insignificant amount of tohit debuff resistance, which means that when the rest of your friends are whiffing against the hordes of ghosts, you'll still be hitting them.
The answer is no you don't need it for an Arch/Dev especially if you slot IO sets that give bonuses to accuracy.
Here's why:
First - Pets and powers that spawn psuedo pets NEED their own accuracy slotting. They do not benefit from Targeting Drone AT ALL.
That means that Rain of Arrows (spawns a pseudo pet), Trip Mine (spawns a pseudo pet), Time Bomb (spawns a pseudo pet), and Gun Drone (is a pet) all need their own accuracy slotting.
Second - When you are mezzed Targeting Drone is still active and all of your endurance that is gurgling away to run it is providing you no benefit at all since toggle powers are suppressed while you are mezzed. Blasters have an inherent power (Defiance) that allows them to fire their tier 1 and 2 primary attack and their tier 1 secondary attack even while they are mezzed. Since Targetting Drone will be suppressed in this case (a case that will occur more and more frequently as you fight in content at higher levels) you will also need standard accuracy slotting in these powers (Snap Shot, Aimed Shot, Web Grenade)
That's too many powers that get nothing substantial from Targeting Drone and require acc slotting for my taste. My Arch/Dev doesn't have it. If I need a to hit boost (and Aim is not recharged) I just pop a yellow inspiration (I can't ever remember not having one to use when I needed one and they are the most common suspect for converting into other insps).
Not only that but if you slot IO sets it's almost impossible to NOT slot some accuracy in your powers (it's built into the set IOs) and most of the sets that you are likely to slot give a global bonus to accuracy before you get the recharge or defense bonus that you are likely slotting for.
By the by. The Gaussians set belongs in AIM for an Arch/Dev not in Targeting Drone. If it is in Aim the +damage proc is much more likely to fire off before you unload your most powerful attacks rather than while you are standing in Wentworths, traveling to the mission location, between spawns while you are setting up, or just as you are firing that last snap shot to finish off the last mob in the spawn.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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I like to slot lower-than-50 IOs for examplaring. At least at those levels, Gaussian's doesn't have ED-capped recharge, so putting it into Aim means I can't use Aim as often. That may be a bigger penalty than the difference between the proc being checked on demand (when you hit Aim) or randomly (in TD).
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
By the by. The Gaussians set belongs in AIM for an Arch/Dev not in Targeting Drone. If it is in Aim the +damage proc is much more likely to fire off before you unload your most powerful attacks rather than while you are standing in Wentworths, traveling to the mission location, between spawns while you are setting up, or just as you are firing that last snap shot to finish off the last mob in the spawn.
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
there are a lot more "skippable" powers in devices than tagerting drone. You can never have too much accuracy on a blaster.
I would always take it. Yes it is true that in a lot of cases Accuracy slotting and bonuses are enough but you will love it once you are fighting enemies with higher defense or to-hit debuffs. On other characters I often try to squeeze in tactics for the same reason (or get the Kismet unique).
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With out any other form of recharge bonus (hasten, global recharge, outside buffs, temp powers) the difference in recharge speed between a level 35 Gaussians set and a level 50 set is 3 seconds|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
I like to slot lower-than-50 IOs for examplaring. At least at those levels, Gaussian's doesn't have ED-capped recharge, so putting it into Aim means I can't use Aim as often. That may be a bigger penalty than the difference between the proc being checked on demand (when you hit Aim) or randomly (in TD).
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Adding just hasten in the difference is 1.4 seconds adding 3 sets of level 35 Posi (for exemplaring purposes) a set of level 35 decimation, and a set of level 35 Stupefy adds another 31.25% to your global recharge (very easy to do) the difference between the 2 is now 1.2 seconds.
I don't really see it as all that big of a deal.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
/Dev sucks anyways.
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
By the by. The Gaussians set belongs in AIM for an Arch/Dev not in Targeting Drone. If it is in Aim the +damage proc is much more likely to fire off before you unload your most powerful attacks rather than while you are standing in Wentworths, traveling to the mission location, between spawns while you are setting up, or just as you are firing that last snap shot to finish off the last mob in the spawn.
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ARGH this misconception. Okay, look, here's the thing. If Gaussian's Chance For Build Up fires off in WWs it has no effect on the odds of it then firing off later when you're in a fight. It is no more "wasted" than your Build Up proc in Aim is when you're standing around in Wentworth's not using it.
The only thing that affects the odds of a given attack being affected by your Build Up proc is whether or not you have triggered the proc-holding power immediately before the attack. The odds of an attack being affected by the proc in Aim right after you hit Aim are the same as that attack being affected by the proc if it were in a toggle you had running at the time. The only difference is that with the toggle, that's every attack instead of just the ones you hit Aim on.
If you have the choice between putting Chance For Build Up in a toggle or Aim, it is always better to put it in the toggle. Putting it in Aim does not increase the chances that it will go off "when you need it". All it does is decrease the chances that it will go off at other times (including attacks later in the same fight) to 0%.
For leveling up it alright.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I think that's the point. Obviously what power you have that sort of proc slotted in has no mathematical effect on when or how often it triggers.|
Originally Posted by Ben_Arizona
Putting it in Aim does not increase the chances that it will go off "when you need it". All it does is decrease the chances that it will go off at other times (including attacks later in the same fight) to 0%.
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Rather, slotting it in click powers provides a better chance for the proc to activate when you need it as opposed to just randomly every 10 seconds. The value of that is directly tied to the Recharge of the power and how often you click it. That's why it's beneficial to slot Chance for Build Up procs (And Chance for Hold, etc.) in frequently used attacks. You click the power often so there are more rolls to see if the proc activates. Since Aim is a power you use often but not too often the value of the proc goes from, "Perfect! That's just what I needed!" down to, "Hey, that's pretty cool".
But regardless, no one's misunderstanding that slotting the proc in a toggle has no real effect on how often it goes off. It does, however, effect the number of times the game rolls to see if the proc will activate by limiting it to once every ten seconds as opposed to once every time you click a power. So, in a manner of speaking, it increases efficiency.
My Opinion On the Matter: Slot the proc in Snap Shot and call it a day.
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Originally Posted by Timeshadow
I think that's the point. Obviously what power you have that sort of proc slotted in has no mathematical effect on when or how often it triggers.
Rather, slotting it in click powers provides a better chance for the proc to activate when you need it as opposed to just randomly every 10 seconds. The value of that is directly tied to the Recharge of the power and how often you click it. That's why it's beneficial to slot Chance for Build Up procs (And Chance for Hold, etc.) in frequently used attacks. You click the power often so there are more rolls to see if the proc activates. Since Aim is a power you use often but not too often the value of the proc goes from, "Perfect! That's just what I needed!" down to, "Hey, that's pretty cool". But regardless, no one's misunderstanding that slotting the proc in a toggle has no real effect on how often it goes off. It does, however, effect the number of times the game rolls to see if the proc will activate by limiting it to once every ten seconds as opposed to once every time you click a power. So, in a manner of speaking, it increases efficiency. My Opinion On the Matter: Slot the proc in Snap Shot and call it a day. |
But your chance of it happening when you need it is exactly the same whether it's in Aim or Targeting Drone. The difference is that in Targeting Drone it will also be going off during all the other times you're attacking and Aim hasn't recharged yet.
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There's a difference between burst damage and sustained damage. For sustained damage having the proc in the toggle is fine. I prefer to have the chance to proc affect all 3 of my AoE attacks at a time of my choosing rather than randomly at some much more er, random time. The chances of it proccing right before unloading the AoEs are MUCH higher if it is in Aim even if the toggle allows it to proc 3 times more often.
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Originally Posted by Ben_Arizona
But your chance of it happening when you need it is exactly the same whether it's in Aim or Targeting Drone. The difference is that in Targeting Drone it will also be going off during all the other times you're attacking and Aim hasn't recharged yet.
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-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
The chance of Build Up being on during your AOE assault if you hit proc'd Aim before it is 5%.|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
There's a difference between burst damage and sustained damage. For sustained damage having the proc in the toggle is fine. I prefer to have the chance to proc affect all 3 of my AoE attacks at a time of my choosing rather than randomly at some much more er, random time. The chances of it proccing right before unloading the AoEs are MUCH higher if it is in Aim even if the toggle allows it to proc 3 times more often.
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The chance of Build Up being on during your AOE assault if you are running proc'd Targeting Drone or Tactics is 5%.
You are not increasing your burst damage by putting it in Aim. You are only decreasing your non-burst damage so that your bursts seem bigger by comparison.
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Well, if it's in a toggle it checks every ten seconds. Every ten seconds counting from when you start the toggle? Every ten seconds according to some server schedule? I don't know.|
Originally Posted by Ben_Arizona
The chance of Build Up being on during your AOE assault if you hit proc'd Aim before it is 5%.
The chance of Build Up being on during your AOE assault if you are running proc'd Targeting Drone or Tactics is 5%. |
Let's say you're facing Mr. Big. Your proc checked four seconds ago while you were looking for him. Now it cannot activate for six more seconds, period. There's no chance you'll have it for the fight unless you wait.
If you had it in Aim, you'd have a 5% chance of having it right now, no waiting!
BUT...there's a caveat. Let's say you DO hit AIM...and it does not activate the Build Up proc this time. Are you going to attack? Or are you going to wait for Aim to recharge and try again to get the proc?
If you are going to attack anyway and not wait in hopes of getting the proc, then Ben_Arizona and the others are right; it makes no difference; your chances of the proc being up randomly in a toggle are no different from your chances of getting it to go off in Aim. Either way it's active 5% of the time you could be making your big attack; the only thing you control is if you decide to wait and not act (which probably is a LOT worse for your DPS than not having the proc active).
In other words, in a toggle, you only have a 5% chance at any random moment in which you happen to make the "shoot/don't shoot decision" to get the benefit; in Aim, you only have a 5% chance to have it activate in the specific, chosen moment you make the "shoot/don't shoot decision." Both are 5%, aren't they?
The scenario in which you do get to have any influence over the proc going off at the key moment is the scenario where you wait.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
Well, if it's in a toggle it checks every ten seconds. Every ten seconds counting from when you start the toggle? Every ten seconds according to some server schedule? I don't know.
Let's say you're facing Mr. Big. Your proc checked four seconds ago while you were looking for him. Now it cannot activate for six more seconds, period. There's no chance you'll have it for the fight unless you wait. If you had it in Aim, you'd have a 5% chance of having it right now, no waiting! BUT...there's a caveat. Let's say you DO hit AIM...and it does not activate the Build Up proc this time. Are you going to attack? Or are you going to wait for Aim to recharge and try again to get the proc? If you are going to attack anyway and not wait in hopes of getting the proc, then Ben_Arizona and the others are right; it makes no difference; your chances of the proc being up randomly in a toggle are no different from your chances of getting it to go off in Aim. Either way it's active 5% of the time you could be making your big attack; the only thing you control is if you decide to wait and not act (which probably is a LOT worse for your DPS than not having the proc active). In other words, in a toggle, you only have a 5% chance at any random moment in which you happen to make the "shoot/don't shoot decision" to get the benefit; in Aim, you only have a 5% chance to have it activate in the specific, chosen moment you make the "shoot/don't shoot decision." Both are 5%, aren't they? The scenario in which you do get to have any influence over the proc going off at the key moment is the scenario where you wait. |
Except that since the toggle will check for proc every ten seconds, if you absolutely must have your Build Up proc active you can just wait and watch the buff icon bar. It'll still be faster than Aim would be unless your Aim recharges in less than ten seconds. Which is to say, perma-Aim. Which is to say, it's not going to happen.
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To be fair, it isn't exactly the same chance. Normally people use Aim right before cutting loose with their most powerful attacks, so if the BU proc goes off when you hit Aim it is optimally timed for maximum effect. On the other hand, if it's in a toggle it's going to go off randomly at some unknown point in your attack chain... so it's entirely possible that it will randomly trigger after your heaviest hitters are used and the BU will then wear off before they are recharged. Putting he proc in a toggle gives the most total bonus damage since it goes off more times, but putting it in Aim gives the largest burst damage boost when it does go off since it is always perfectly timed to coincide with your best attacks (like Rain of Arrows) and other damage buffs. It's just a question of whether you prefer higher average DPS or occasionally seeing a lot of very high orange numbers.
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Originally Posted by Ben_Arizona
But your chance of it happening when you need it is exactly the same whether it's in Aim or Targeting Drone. The difference is that in Targeting Drone it will also be going off during all the other times you're attacking and Aim hasn't recharged yet.
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Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
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If you're that enamored of big orange numbers, you can wait for the Boost Up to appear in your buffbar, then hit Aim and go to town. Is it a long and stupid wait? Yes, it is. On the other hand, it's way shorter than waiting for the Aim-triggered proc to fire, and if you're not going to do that your odds of getting Aim + Boost Up on your big attacks are the same anyway.
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Originally Posted by StrykerX
It's just a question of whether you prefer higher average DPS or occasionally seeing a lot of very high orange numbers.
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Well, I did say putting it in the toggle is better for overall DPS (that's where I'd put it). Some people just love seeing a ton of things die at once due to a super-charged AoE barrage. Then again, the original post was about Archery / Devices, and you don't take Devices for burst damage, so...
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
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The thing is, you are exactly as likely to see everything die at once due to your supercharged barrage with the Build Up proc in Targeting Drone. For serious. Putting it in Aim does not make it more likely to go off on your Big Alpha Strike. The odds of it going off on the Big Alpha Strike are exactly the same either way. Calling this burst damage vs. sustained damage tradeoff is like a scrapper turning off all his armor toggles after the first five seconds of fighting a spawn and saying it's so that he can have burst protection when the alpha hits. It doesn't work that way.
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Originally Posted by StrykerX
Well, I did say putting it in the toggle is better for overall DPS (that's where I'd put it). Some people just love seeing a ton of things die at once due to a super-charged AoE barrage. Then again, the original post was about Archery / Devices, and you don't take Devices for burst damage, so...
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Actually, that's exactly the way that MoG works.|
Originally Posted by Ben_Arizona
The thing is, you are exactly as likely to see everything die at once due to your supercharged barrage with the Build Up proc in Targeting Drone. For serious. Putting it in Aim does not make it more likely to go off on your Big Alpha Strike. The odds of it going off on the Big Alpha Strike are exactly the same either way. Calling this burst damage vs. sustained damage tradeoff is like a scrapper turning off all his armor toggles after the first five seconds of fighting a spawn and saying it's so that he can have burst protection when the alpha hits. It doesn't work that way.
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Think what you want. Unless your AoE attack chain is totally seamless, you are always perfectly positioned and have all your attacks recharged in every situation, and have no down time between spawns, then you are right and it would always be better to have it in Targeting Drone.
Since the above has never been true in my experience, nor even close to true often enough to make a difference I'll leave mine where it is thankyouverymuch.
There is a very good reason I don't have targeting drone on my Arch/Dev all of which I've said above. I did play around on test with targeting drone and it was actually much more likely to proc when I was setting up a trip mine, setting up Time Bomb, moving to the next spawn, etc than it was to proc right before I unloaded my AoE chain.
Since we are talking about an Arch/Dev here, on the times it procs in Aim my attack chain functions just like my Arch/Energy and RoA > Fistfull > Explosive is a spawn wiper. Any other time my AoE chain isn't a spawn wiper (except when I time it with Time Bomb which is every third spawn) and I have to repeat Fistfull and Explosive to wipe out the spawn then follow up on bosses with single target attacks or just wait and let him drive over the trip mine I set up.
95% of the time when I had it in TD on Test the result was the same as if I had not had it at all. It still took RoA > Fistfull > Explosive > Fistfull > Explosive. To finish a spawn. Sure on occasion I saved an AoE attack when it procced on one of the AoEs post RoA, but it was more likely to proc while I was single targeting the boss in the spawn than on my opening AoE.
By the by, since I don't have TD on my Arch/Dev because I can simulate all of the useful PVE features of it with set bonuses and inspirations, without spending a single endurance, while I'm mezzed, the only option for the proc is in Aim, which is where it will sit and where it will stay until such time as /Dev is brought up to this era of the game by the devs.
-30-
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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Which is why I made clear that I was talking about the toggles, which is the one that is actually analogous. |
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Actually, that's exactly the way that MoG works.
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Okay, look, I don't actually have the time and energy to cut apart the several cognitive biases going on here. Mathematically, you are not improving your odds of getting a Big Damn Alpha off with the proc placed in Aim, but whatever, I've explained the math and gotten a response of NO U and anecdotes. The anecdotes stand out in your memory because they were striking moments and pushing the button gave you an illusion of personal control.
You claim "95% of the time when you had it in Targeting Drone on Test it did nothing". This is actually a perfectly accurate statistic. It fires 5% of the time. Hence, in Targeting Drone it does nothing 95% of the time that TD is active, and in Aim it does nothing 95% of the time that Aim is active and 100% of the time that it is not. The only difference is which one is active more.
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Does the Chance for Build Up proc last for 5 seconds or 10? If it's 10 seconds you're right, since there is a 5% chance at any given moment of it being active while in a toggle and a 5% chance of it activating when you click Aim. But if it's 5 seconds (which is what I thought it was) then there's only a 2.5% chance if it being active at a given point when used in a toggle (5% chance to fire for 5 seconds out of 10).|
Originally Posted by Ben_Arizona
The thing is, you are exactly as likely to see everything die at once due to your supercharged barrage with the Build Up proc in Targeting Drone. For serious. Putting it in Aim does not make it more likely to go off on your Big Alpha Strike. The odds of it going off on the Big Alpha Strike are exactly the same either way.
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I thought it was 5 seconds like the +recharge proc, but I could be wrong. I've not actually used the Gaussinan's proc much since I consider it a bit pricey for a long recharge click like Aim or Build Up and I rarely have toggles with +to-hit.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
I'm trying to decide if this is a power worth taking given the +acc Archers already get. Right now I'm lvl 18 and with 1 acc DO I rarely miss. So I'm trying to decide if this is a power worth taking or if I should just skip it and spend the power selection on something else.