-
Posts
8326 -
Joined
-
Quote:I really have to respond to this. It drips with what I consider horrific ignorance of what's really going on.I think I have two characters who have earned over 100 million, and just barely at that. I look at some of the prices on the market and realize how much I hate farmers.
I'm not a farmer. I mostly play characters who who are not remotely built for farming, and would never be good at it no matter what I did with them. I am simply a player willing to invest the time and focus in making a relatively few characters extremely good, for no better reason than that playing characters against things I know they weren't expected to win against gives me personal joy.
I can sit down, log in, play essentially normal content on high difficulty settings solo, at settings my "extremely good" characters find challenging, and earn 10M inf per hour.
That's brand new inf, created by me, for me to use, adding money to the system that was never there before.
If only 5% of players can do what I can do, that's still thousands of people who could be churning out 10s of millions of inf per day.
Don't have characters like mine? Still not a problem. Run an ITF with +2 mobs in it and fight most of them, a-la "Shard Run" that's vogue these days? That'll earn you around 20M inf. (Get everyone else on the team cranked up with a level shift and you can turn it up higher and earn the even more money in exactly the same elapsed time.) [Edit: I am not suggesting you go on ITFs to earn a lot of money. I'm pointing out that having high-end characters is not a prerequisite, meaning more people than just those with such characters are doing it.]
Farmers contribute large amounts of inf to the in-game economy, but they are not so solely responsible why things cost 100M inf that they deserve anyone singling them out for hate on that basis. Things cost 100M inf because everyone playing a 50 is not just printing money, they're spewing it like confetti on new years. -
Quote:Said with no intent to insult, you really were doing it wrong.Anyway, eventually I was actually able to click the thing. I heard a nifty sound effect. That was it. So I clicked the next one. More cool sound effects, but nothing else happened. I eventually clicked all 4, but saw no result. I am sure I am missing something, but am unaware of what.
Not the part about getting shot. I've struggled some with that myself. But you really shouldn't just go clicking them willy-nilly. They blast the 5th Column who are in the room, basically one-shotting anything that's further up than about 1/2-way up the stairs. You reserve them when your team is being overwhelmed by the ambushes. There's not much value in chain firing all four, since one will probably clear most of the room, leaving few foes for the subsequent activations to defeat.
Of course it's possible any given team might not need help with the ambushes, in which case activating the panels is pretty much just time spent standing around. -
I'm someone with lots of access to TF teams, I play a lot, and my characters have high-powered builds. I tend not to alt heavily. In other words, I'm kind of a poster child for the kind of player the Incarnate system seems be easiest for.
All that said, I feel these numbers for the Notice conversion look high. Not the inf cost - I actually think that is a good number. The shard cost seems high to me. I say this from a couple of perspectives.
One perspective is from the that of a strong soloer, and when I'm not on TFs, I solo stuff. I run my 50s on high team size settings with bosses enabled. I have been pretty comfortable with my shard acquisition rates. I think it would take me a long time to collect the shard numbers shown in the screenshot, especially for slots past Alpha. The numbers shown make me very glad I'm not hard-core about my soloing desires.
Another perspective is looking at how I could use these crafting facilities to speed up my own Incarnate progress. I've been taking the teaming route for my Alpha slot, getting my components from TFs instead of crafting most of them from Shards. (The exception is the component from the CoP.) Partially based on what feels like common sense* and partially on what Black Scorpion posted, I would expect some increased in efficiency for mixing and matching the "solo friendly" and "team-centric" progress facilities. However, assuming the WST does indeed stay in place, I am not really seeing much gain in dipping into this crafting option. That strikes me as a bit lopsided. The "soloist" approach benefits immensely from any willingness to go on TFs, but those with ready access to TFs see marginal benefit from accessing the "soloist" facilities. Don't get me wrong - I can see why that may be intentional, but it seems like there could be more wiggle room. I'm not just saying that from a position of self interest because I want to go faster. If the options are so lopsided that I see basically no value in dipping into the crafting route, I think that might say something about what happens if you try to use that as your primary route.
Don't misunderstand my position here. I think it's reasonable that focusing on soloing this progress is less efficient. I am only questioning the degree to which it looks to be less efficient based on these early numbers, and absent any other possible ways to progress which have not yet been revealed.
* Bearing in mind that seeming "common sense" is highly subjective and not always very "common" at all. -
Quote:This. I don't form pug teams, but I form teams that have pick up players. If I think I need something in particular, I ask for it, but I never ask for anything more general than "buffs/debuffs" or "damage", etc. I would never ask for a specific AT except maybe for the Barracuda SF.I don't think I'd find myself in the situation set up. If I was forming a team and there were two people asking for the last slot, and they were a Scrapper and a Stalker, I'd simply take whoever asked first every time.
On the other hand, I actively resent that that SF is designed in a way that anyone should be compelled to choose its teams that way, and I find the AV lead-around boring, so I am basically never in that position. -
Looking at what I said, it's just poorly phrased period. I think I meant to say "Drop rate always slows down, but reward rate due to increased inf/kill goes up significantly."
-
Quote:That's not universally true. In my experience, if your character has strong AoE powers (and what farming character doesn't?) the reduction in time to kill from higher level foes is exceeded by the increase in the reward per kill. That this effect is real is borne out in my experience using tools like Herostats to measure both reward rate per time and drop rate while fighting foes at different levels. Drop rate always slows down, but reward rate in inf/kill goes up significantly.I don't see why farmers wouldn't jump at the chance to run on lower settings. I don't have the specific numbers, but last I understood -1 actually generates more rewards than +0 because the increase in mobs defeated per hour more than makes up for the decrease in rewards per mob.
You (and others) may be basing the conclusions about what gives the best reward rates based on old information. When we got "XP Smoothing", there was a completely undocumented change in the way XP increases with over-level mobs and decreases with under-level mobs. The change was large in both directions. It is one of the factors I mention when talking about things that increased the rate of inf production in the game that we talk about as contributing to inflation in the game's economy. -
This was brought up in a thread in another section of the forums, but while I know there are people who run at the lowest settings that will get them drops, I don't personally know farmers who do that. I know a fair number of people who farm, either hardcore or occasionally. The issue they see is one of short-term gratification. Windfalls from drops are at the mercy of the RNG - you can go days without getting something good. A single decent purple can make up for that in an instant, but until that happens, the well can feel very dry. We're sometimes talking about people who have posted in here raking in 60M/hour in defeats alone, so it's not really chump change, and keeping the defeat inf rates helps them feel like the well has some kick in it between windfalls.
There's a practical, min/max aspect to it, too. Primarily because of how AoEs work in CoH, there may be little practical difference in how fast a character with strong AoEs can defeat +0 versus +2 or even +3 foes. There's no real point in lowering your foe's level if it doesn't actually translate into meaningful kill speed increases - one might as well leave their difficulty higher and accept the extra cash.
As you say, I think none of us have any real idea how many people do what, but I am not at all sure that most farmers run at lower difficulty settings. Too many I meet in game and who post in this forum have done otherwise. -
Going back to the Musculature comment, I did take it on one Scrapper - a BS/Invul. He doesn't have endurance problems, and I didn't see big value in Cardiac for just the extra damage resist. The biggest bang for him is probably Spiritual, but he's got decent though not amazing +rech from sets and Hasten. Recharge is good for high DPS attack chains, but Broadswords animations kind of choke that early compared to a lot of other sets. The only thing for him that seems to majorly benefit from lots of recharge is Dull Pain, and on average I am close to perma with it now. Ultimately, though, I wanted to try something different - I have a bunch of other melee characters who I gave Spiritual to. Broadsword's appeal, for me, is the steady "crunch", and it seemed that Spiritual was moderate enough in benefit to him that Musculature was attractive for making that "crunch" louder.
-
When I was talking about Incarnate abilities increasing our combat efficiency, I was thinking of things like how Spiritual and Cardiac can increase how much DPS we can output or how many toggles we can run without running out of end. I was also thinking of things seen when other, currently unannounced slots were leaked to test that outright would improve DPS or act as direct attacks.
But I've realized that level shifting introduces a source of absolutely pure inflation, defined as an increase in money supply with no corresponding increase in recipe or salvage supply.
I imagine this was pretty obvious to some. I actually did realize it was inflationary, but hadn't thought about how direct the effect can be. For those for whom it isn't obvious, consider the following example.
Imagine some level 50 character, who the owner of likes to play against +2 and +3 foes. Over some long term, lets say that this character can average X mob defeats per hour. It doesn't matter what X is, or really over what term we measure it. We just need to know that for any given set of conditions (foe type, number of foes, etc.) this character can defeat X foes per unit time. This then translates into some number of Inf generated per hour, and also some rate of pool A and purple drops per hour, and maybe also some rate of Merit production.
Now this level 50 character gets his Rare level shift. Existing foes become effectively one level lower to him. To keep up his challenge, he bumps the level of foes he fights - his missions now have +3 and +4 foes in them. These foes now act exactly like the +2 and +3 foes he fought before. The net effect on his defeat rate, X, should be exactly zippo. He should be defeating mobs at the same rates he did before.
But now, even though fighting it feels just like it did before, each mob of a given con color is worth more Inf than it was before. (I tried to find a reference for the ratios, but didn't come up with one handily. Maybe I'll dig it up in-game tonight.) So our character is producing more inf/time for the same activities at the same level of challenge and rate of progress. Most importantly, though, since his defeat rate ostensibly didn't increase, neither does his rate of drop production, or, presumably, any production rates for our various merits. (Note, though, that AE Ticket rates are linked to mob level, and so their production rate would actually increase if the player used the AE.)
There's a big assumption here that's that the player would actually increase their difficulty to counteract their level shift. I'm certain not everyone would do that, but I know lots of people who have done so for their non-TF team play, so I do suspect it's common if not a majority approach. (TF speed runners look prone to leaving their settings low and burning through TFs even faster, so this will tend to mitigate inflationary effects on Reward Merit item production.) As long as a non-trivial proportion of the population ups their foe levels in step with their level shifts, it will tend towards inflationary effect. At least until we run out of level bumps to give our foes. -
Quote:It's worth noting here that there's more to grabbing aggro than having a taunt aura. My understanding, taken from the forums, is that mob "hate" is a factor of several things, one of which is how much damage you've recently dealt a mob. "Taunt" effects act as large multiplier on this, meaning that damage dealt by someone who has taunted a mob is has far more weight than damage dealt by someone who has not.I just don't think a Scrapper's taunt aura should trump a Tanker's taunt aura, ever. Holding aggro is their job, and their taunt auras are part of their aggro management toolset. I do not draw aggro with my Blaster AoEs if there is a competent tank and I allow him to do his job, but with AAO I might.
This is important, because it factors in to what happens when two people have taunted something, and one of them is applying significantly more damage than the other. Even if a Tanker's taunt aura is stronger than a Scrapper's, if they're both beating on the same foe and the Scrapper is dealing enough extra damage to make up the difference in taunt strength, they may "steal" aggro. Making the Tanker's taunt aura strong enough to ensure this never happened would probably require extremely large differences in Tanker and Scrapper aura "hate" multipliers. -
Quote:Agreeing with other folks that I'm not sure that any reasonable interpretation of what they have given us would lead to that. Make sure you've scrolled down in the crafting window. There are four different "recipes" for each Very Rare slot - one for each combination of the two Rares in that same tree (Cardiac, Spiritual, etc.).This misleading info from the in game incarnate diagram and the website caused me to create a 3rd tier that will not get me to the 4th tier that I want. I suggest that the devs address this immediately.
The only way you can have made a Rare which will not get you the Very Rare you wanted is to create a Rare from a completely different tree. (You can't use a Cardiac Rare to create a Spiritual Very Rare.) -
-
I have never been one to play anthropomorphic animal characters, but whether I ever do or not, I'm impressed with the heads and legs shown in the trailer. I think they really look good.
Kudos to whoever made them. -
It not only says "any two rare", it shows lines linking the slots. Compare those lines on the web page to the ones in the in-game crafting window.
The ones on the web page show a link only between the Radial Rares and the Radial Very Rare, and the Core Rares and the Core Very Rare. The clear implication I take from that is that a Core Very Rare can only be crafted by having both Core Rares, which would be wrong.
The fact that it is drawn that way and says "any two rares" is not only doubly misleading, it's self contradictory. -
The web-page version of the tree is helpful, but it is also misleading. The lines from the Rare slots to the Very Rare slots clearly suggest that the Very Rares require the two Rares directly above them. This is not the case.
-
The flier has always dropped the bombs. Their seeking AI has always been a little odd, and it doesn't spam them, so it's easy to imagine you never noticed them. I've never seen the flier get "stuck" like that.
Recluse occasionally does phase when being buffed by the towers. The teams I run with regularly leave the blue tower up, and when it buffs him he becomes "UNAFFECTED". I don't know if this is unique to the blue tower, or if any tower would do this. I don't think he does this when all the towers are down.
It's quite likely that Recluse has high taunt resistance, especially when buffed. This would help explain why it's easy to lose his aggro. The occasioonal phasing would then contribute to this.
I noticed an Arachnos spawn come running in one of the STFs I was on this last week. Since we don't take down all the towers, I have no idea what triggered it. I only noticed it once, and I definitely thought it was odd. -
I had one laggard 50 who did not have the Alpha Slot unlocked until yesterday, mostly because I wanted to solo Ramiel's arc with him, but I had unslotted most of his enhancers for an I19 respec, and had not yet replaced them.
Now that all my 50s are unlocked, I plan to have all nine of them with the very rare slotted once we've had enough WSTs to acquire four Notices of the Well.
This is relatively easy for me to plan on, because I have access to regular TF teams who can complete the existing TFs without much in the way team formation gyrations. -
My biggest problem with the Dark Servant is that I often can't kill it. It crushes my toHit in melee with it barring Focused Accuracy (and I have 'specced out of FA on all my characters currently in preference for Tactics - usually to get to Vengeance), and most of my ranged attacks are currently negative damage (Soul Mastery). On the upside, it doesn't last nearly as long as a real Dark Miasma Dark Servant, and MIs don't resummon it as soon as it expires. Thus, I often end up doing drive-bys on the MI until the DS expires.
-
-
Quote:I know a guy who did this with a Brute. I think he slotted everything resist-based with Impervium Armor. He had some really extreme recovery for a set without a QR clone. If I remember right, it was around 4 EPS. He loved it, because it was sort of ridiculous against normal content. He used to go hang out in the Fab and juggle multiple Arachnos Bane Spider executioners.I tried this on a brute. End-consumption to rival fire/storm corrs and trollers. And that was after shifter, miracle, and numina procs. It was just attrocious. Perhaps I'll revisit the concept now with the alphas... but it's gruelingly end-heavy without.
I don't think he really built it for +defense at all, but for what he was doing with it, that wasn't a problem. It'd be interesting to see how a build like that would do against something like the RWZ challenge, granting the ability to corner pull or something to get everything in the stun radii. DA's low energy resist would make it brutal, but I'm betting it could be pulled off with a fair tolerance for failed runs. Clearly it wouldn't be all that against something that had sufficient mez protection. -
Quote:Well, I think you took that a different route than I meant it. I'm on the side of this that doesn't buy into the notion that anything Incarnate is tied to godhood or deification, and I'm using Hero-1 as a possible example of that. Now, that said, I completely agree his being an Incarnate (now) feels like a retcon, but the way he was fit into the new(?) lore doesn't particularly fit with the idea that everyone who "drinks" from the well is on the path to godhood.Yeah, that bugs me, too. I think what happened was that Hero-1 was retconned into being an Incarnate when originally he was nothing of the sort. His original backstory says that he is the latest in a long line of humans who are the wielders of Excalibur, which is protected by the fae. The denizens of Croatoa seem to likewise be fae.
I think the original intent of the lore was that there were different groups of magic users -- notably Greek gods, African gods, demons and fae -- who were all basically variations on the Magic theme. Once everything started to get related to Statesman's origin, then every ultra-powerful NPC was shoehorned into the "Incarnate" role.
Maybe Hero-1 is the Incarnate of a Celtic god. That would work, I think. -
Quote:I thought of something else that doesn't jive with this. What "god" is Hero One an incarnate of? We're told that he's in Incarnate in Ramiel's arc.It's pretty clear that Statesman is an Incarnate of Zeus.
Zeus being an Olympian god in mythology.
Incarnate is pretty much a human form.
So an Incarnate of Zeus is Zeus in a human body.
Statesman being like Jesus in this manner (according to the Bible in regards to Jesus). Jesus being the incarnate of God in the act of being the son of God simulaneously. (I'm not trying to argue this point. I'm simply pointing this out for reference.)
As a personification of Zeus, Statesman may be mortal, but still is a god as he "is" Zeus incarnate. -
Quote:It's the mask, and that Twilight Grasp (which is pretty damn likely to hit you if the Mask is on you) is going to zero your regen. Oh, and of course she's also owning your End recovery.My Willpower, on the other hand, utterly laughs at Master Illusionists... and then gets whomped by the Dark Ring Mistress I didn't see at the back of the spawn. Regularly. I am not sure what it is about Dark Ring Mistresses that just destroy my /WP scrapper, but I have just learned to accept that they must go down first always. I guess it's probably the Mask.
-
Quote:I disagree strongly that this distinction is so clear. Go read the description on the Magic SOs that reference "the entities", which is (IMO) a pretty clear early lore abstraction for "gods". They refer to beings which grant you improved abilities, and it's pretty hard to ignore that this is the "magic" enhancement type. These entities include Joule and Grey, who seem original, and Hermes, who is a clear reference to a mythological god of legend. Less compelling, but still relevant, is that the Magic/Natural category of DOs are called "Relics", which is a name which makes me think of holy objects.City of Heroes already makes a CLEAR distinction between the power of the divine - which tends to be classed Natural - and magical ritual, spell, incantation and enchantment. This is the centrepiece of the story of Tielekku, and by also apparently the theme behind the story of the Well of the Furies, which we call that only because that's the image it took on when Statesman and Recluse drank from it.
So I do not at all agree that the distinction between magic in the sorcery sense and the power of the gods is clear, the story of Tielekku notwithstanding. As is so often the case, CoH's lore contains overlapping or even contradictory information, and we're left to choose the interpretation that makes the most sense to us. Given the link to the "entities" that all the Magic SOs describe, and the presence of an entity named Hermes, I have always filed all the CoH "gods" as "entities", and thus included the power of the gods under the heading of "magic". (I also therefore reject the power of the gods as "Natural", but that gets back into a different debate that you and I have had several times, and firmly disagree on.) -
Quote:In-game, there's a scroll bar on that crafting window. Scroll down more. You can craft the Very Rare slot with any combination of two Rare slots. There are four "recipes" in the window that all craft the same Very Rare.But on live/in the game that is not how it shows up. In the game the Radial Paragon very rare slot needs the Partial Radial Revamp and the Partial Core Revamp.
But your point about the lines on the website still stands.