The_Foo

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plus the salvage cost of FIVE of the 3rd tier empowerment stations

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WHOA. I just reread what Positron said. Multiple stations will stack? So to stack the buffs, you have to have more than one STATION?

... I don't know what to say.

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Well, I know a few things you could say. One in particular is two words that start with B and S.

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In my 11 thousand + posts I haven't done anything productive.

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You've made me smile on numerous occaisions.

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Bah! Any idiot can post a bit of random nonsense and get a laugh or two..

I mean just look at Foo..



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If one "swing" corresponds to a larger number of attacks, it seems like the 10k number would be off by several orders of magnitude.

But I probably just read too much into the presence of that number. I can be fairly good at that...

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I actually used the 10k figure because that numbers actually gets bandied about when people start discussing statistics on the boards. You hear people who know the term "sample size", and perhaps little else, suggest that anything less than 10k worth of hit/miss data is insufficient to draw conclusion from.

I am, however, a professional trout-swinger. Like my father before me.

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The only time I step up as you say when someone is posting about bugs, is when people make statements like "accuracy isn't working" when all they have to go off of is that they were fighting in this one mission and seemed to miss more than usual. Or attacks seem to be more drainy. Or recharges seem to be less or more. Or whatever. Because 99% of the time, they are wrong. Accuracy isn't nerfed, recharges aren't higher, and endurance usage didn't just go up.

I don't mind people posting bugs, but if someone believes there is a bug, they should test it and get some reliable numbers before getting everyone worked up about things.

I don't think that's too much to ask. If you think you've found a bug, test your bug and make sure what you think is happening is happening.

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I have told many people to come back with more testing in such cases. For example, someone on the Brute forum said something about Hand Clap not having good accuracy because he'd "used it once in PvP and it missed everyone".

That, THAT, is the kind of thing you file under G (for garbage!) and then go on with your day, and I'll be the first up to bat at that guy's head.

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It's a shame that rather than enjoy the game that many players would rather complain.

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Dude, this is either really off-topic, or really off-point.

No one here is complaining. We're talking about how to reliably convey information about bugs without getting a knee-jerk runaround.

This isn't complaining, this is QA testing to make the game better.

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Clone Pohsybs instead, they pack into boxes better and don't require "vintage" rock music

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This just in: Pohsyb does hourly searches for his own name on the forums!

Pohsyb caught egosurfing-- pictures at eleven.

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I think, in fact, that Fraktal is actually correct in this case, the poor example aside.

If fifty diehard baseball players and fans are noticing there's something wrong with their swing and saying, "The bat feels light", you don't just check the weight of the bat by looking at the number printed on it. You don't demand that they each take 10000 swings and report the results.

You get a scale and check the bat, then call the factory and get them to fix their manufacturing process.

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But that example isn't very good either. You can get a feel for the weight of a bat by holding it. You can't get the feel for accuracy by making one attack



Also, in cases like this it's more like 4 out of 10 complainers have never held a bat before, 2 play once or twice per year, 2 are wielding tennis rackets, and one person is happily swinging a trout.

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That is not the case. No one's saying that all complaints be treated equally. I'd be VERY surprised if the Devs aren't aware of Circeus and Arcana by name.

This isn't a random sampling of 10 complainers. It's like Ken Griffey making a comment about the bat and then the coach just shaking his and telling him he's imagining it. It's in the Devs interest for these bugs to be tracked down.

It's not accurate to suggest that we're saying the bat weight example is analagous to "making one attack". No one has said that, and I doubt anyone would.

To be clear: taking a few swings in my example should be compared to a playing doing a few missions (or a few "at bats", if you prefer).

Also, if an analogy were 100% perfect, it would cease to be an analogy. Debating analogies ignores the actual issue.

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I think, in fact, that Fraktal is actually correct in this case, the poor example aside.

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Thanks for pointing out that my example sucked, Foo.

(Heheh... Foo and I are friends... I'm just teasing him.)

Actually I'm glad you came up with a much better one:

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If fifty diehard baseball players and fans are noticing there's something wrong with their swing and saying, "The bat feels light", you don't just check the weight of the bat by looking at the number printed on it. You don't demand that they each take 10000 swings and report the results.

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I have a rule. I just made it up right now, but it's a rule, nonetheless: If you're going to explain something to an American, use baseball or football analogies.

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How many "alarms" can we check per day, while also generating and testing new content? I can guarantee we get more "alarms" than we have time to look at properly.

An easy reply to that is 'Hire more people.' Ok, so who do we let go to keep this in our budget, and isn't that just robbing Peter to pay Paul? Increasing the budget means either Cryptic or NCSoft loses income OR we increase the monthly charge for the game. None of these are really good ideas or feasible.

There is an old engineering adage to the effect of "You can have it Fast, Good, or Cheap -- pick two." It basically refers to the fact that time, money and quality are all inter-related. Time and Money are often fixed quantities ("We need this in three weeks! No, we aren't increasing your budget for it.") which means features are designed to, or cut to those parameters.

One last thing to consider, you as players represent thousands of times more manpower than we have here. No matter what, you will almost always find bugs that we miss here. Statistically, that is almost a certainty.

None of this is meant as an excuse. We have a lot of bugs, and as many get introduced each new patch as get fixed. So long as new content is being added, that will likely remain the case (although, since we have had a QA dept. here at Cryptic for the last 10 months or so, things are improving in that regard.)

We are trying to make CoH/CoV the best game possible -- we work on it every day, and constantly discuss ways to improve the various systems we have and how to prioritize changes and/or fixes. Sometimes, we screw up, but most of the time, we succeed.

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Castle, I completely agree, but this: "you as players represent thousands of times more manpower than we have here", is precisely why the immediate kneejerk and rote "this isn't the problem you're looking for" /em Jedi hand wave is a very poor solution.

I'm certainly not suggesting that you chase down every claim that "I missed three times in a row; it's a nerf!", but when we see solid information and testing ignored or simply reported as working when we know there's more to it than that, it's quite vexing.

Off the top of my head, I'd say any report of strangeness voiced by Arcana, Circeus, or Fraktal is probably worth paying attention to, especially if there are a large number of people nodding in agreement.

As a sidenote: isn't there a QA department that's specifically tasked with tracking down and testing for bugs of this nature? I would certainly agree that Pohsyb or yourself shouldn't be the ones who have to do this on their lunchbreaks or whenever.

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The only reason I'm not going to join the "[censored] IT LISTEN TO ME" army is an example that _Castle_ used at one point:

Someone sent in a demorecord designed to prove that "thing X got nerfed". And the demorecord was a deliberate fraud and a forgery.

I'd say there are more lying scumbags out there than there are good, careful scientists by a factor of 10, at least. The entry barriers are lower. . .

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No one's saying you should listen to all players with a cockamamie story.

We're just saying that if a great deal of people are saying they smell smoke, especially ones that have proven in the past to be reliable, it's a good idea to actually *check* for fire instead of saying, "Well, the alarms aren't going off".

At the very least, you check the alarms' batteries, or say, "oh, yes, there is smoke, but it's because we're all high, not because the basement's caught fire."

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A Tennis player using instincts is using "Muscle memory", not traditional memory.

This is a very different thing than "instinctually" knowing that a random sequence of numbers is wrong.

If I came here and claimed that Blasters have half the normal chance to hit on 06/06/06, are you going to claim that you should consider it just because I'm a longtime player who's instincts are honed so I know how things should be? Of course not. I either have numbers, or I have nothing.

Bugs exist. What the "stats" people constantly argue with is the people who don't have numbers...and the people who do have numbers disagree. That's very different than this situation here where nobody had the numbers either way.

Frankly, if people start giving more credence to instincts based on this thread they want to, rather than it being a good idea. I respect you in general Fraktal but in spite of your claims to being a stats person you jump on to the "instinct" bandwagon far too fast.

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I think, in fact, that Fraktal is actually correct in this case, the poor example aside.

If fifty diehard baseball players and fans are noticing there's something wrong with their swing and saying, "The bat feels light", you don't just check the weight of the bat by looking at the number printed on it. You don't demand that they each take 10000 swings and report the results.

You get a scale and check the bat, then call the factory and get them to fix their manufacturing process.

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Or perhaps there is a core group of a dozen or so players the Devs should always 'listen to'-- even when those players disagree with each other?

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When in doubt, they should always listen to me and do whatever I say. Its not always the best thing, but its a good rule of thumb. And not just for the devs, either.

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It's true. Also, they should never listen to me. Ever.

Oh, look, they already aren't.

Just out of curiousity, that balance pass would move the Inspirations to what values?

(I.e., I'm assuming the Phosyb numbers given are the correct values, and aren't changing.)

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First off, I agree with the OP 100%. Statesman is the best MMO developer I have ever seen. He has a great vision of what this game should be like and I hope he sticks to it, ignoring all the nay-sayers.

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I think you missed the point of the OP. It wasn't at all that Statesman is a great MMO developer. It was that he'd finally, in Krunch's opinion, gotten something right.

While I'm posting, however: why the frack is this thread still going? Let's get this thing locked up, man.

The only thing that bugs me is:
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*You should not get caught up in the emotion of victory or defeat. You may be thinking, "How is it possible to not celebrate victory or mourn defeat?". You can, but don't let the opponents know it. If you openly boast, you will be alpha-target number one. If you openly cry foul, you will be alpha-target number one. Never say anything to the opponent in local chat, private chat, or global chat; especially, global chat. Resist the temptation to do so. If you have a fit of rage, count to ten, go get a drink of water, or just go watch some television. Never say anything to the opponents, ever.

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...but, I do agree with this:
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*being polite and engaging in polite conversation can be fine. I have done this. But, the opponent may not know if you are being polite or sarcastic. Just be careful what you say and how you say it if you decide to say anything.


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I've made a bunch of friends from PvPing in Siren's Call on Virtue, and that comes from complimenting a good fight, and breaking the ice with some banter during, too.

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No accuracy in your attacks? you crazy the tohit buff in Invincibility is really small. I have 2 acc's in all my attacks to make sure I hit reds and up consistently, can't punchvoke if I can't hit Nemesis with vengeance on is my current bane of existence.

You might want to move one dmg slot from Energy Punch to AS, you get a little more out of it. You could move some slots from Fly elsewhere if you need them unless you plan on flying and tanking at the same time. Other than it's pretty close to the build I'm playing except I went the aid self route instead of REl/REn.

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Well, two things:
1. I don't really mind base accuracy that much, and the boost from Inv is good when you're surrounded.
2. I think there must've been a bug in the hero planner, 'cos I do have one ACC in the bigger attacks.

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one question: why in the world are you waiting until 49 to take build up?

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This particular build was a respec build, and I just stuck it in there because it needs no real slotting.

In all honesty, though, I rarely use Build Up on my Tank. Aside from taking out Sappers, which I can use red insps for, I can get by without it.

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::Falls over dead.::

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(\O.O/)

Don't worry, I'm trained in CPR!

*&lt;you know what happens here &gt;*

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Yup. Everyone cringes in unison and pretends not to notice the disturbing bug.

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Worse, sometimes on pick up groups you'll have people freaking out "OMG! Invisible mobs are attacking me! My client is bugged! (Character logging out in 30...29...(dead)...28)

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Well yes this is a problem to be fair.

The issue is that there is a severe -- and I mean severe bug in the COH/V client(s) that causes some players (it seems to happen to certain people on my SG and not others) to get the "vanishing mob" syndrome. This is not tactics or mob abilities; it is a bug, and a very, very bad one. If this has happened to you as a bug, you're likely to assume it when it happens to you under correct behavior.

The devs are in part at fault here because in 2 years they still have not addressed this "invisible mob" bug, and so players who have seen this bug for 2 years make the wrong assumption -- but an entirely understandable one.

Before the devs put legitimate disappearing mobs with invisibilty powers into the game, they needed to get rid of this bug completely. That they did not is actually poor IMO. They need to kill this bug. Now. Then the Night Widows are just a tactical challenge.

Until they do, for people who get this bug (I don't but 3 of my SG-mates do on a regular basis), it's going to look like a bug and just what you described will happen. We worked it out on my team and we can usually figure out what is going on (through group chat communication), but it's very disconcerting to people who have seen the bug before. This bug needs to be squished.

F

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This bug has also been getting worse, it seems. I regularly have to exit and re-enter missions in order to see the enemies (which is a stellar pain in the behind if you're an MM).

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But yeah, I do check it consistantly.

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I have much too large a screen to constantly shift my eyes up to that corner. If it were undockable from my health/XP meter, that would make it more useful.

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Heheh. This sounds like, "my mansion's too big to walk all the way to answer the front door!"

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Yeah, but who carefully scans their iconbar after every fight?

The text component would help. I still like the idea of putting some smoke effects in front of the camera though.

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Hey, if the enemies suddenly disappear and you think something's fishy, take a gander at the bar. If you see something you don't recognise, then right-click to see what it is.

That doesn't seem unreasonable to me. It'd be easier if it blinked and did cartwheels to warn you, sure, but is it really too much to ask for a little presence of mind to spot check it when something's up?

If you check out your status bar, you'll see an icon for the blinding. Come I7, it may even have a text component, like "Taunted" does.

To Test with you!

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(Except, of course, for "feeling", which is hazy and, apparently, under-represented outside of Burn and fighting very grey enemies.)

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It's also represented in a few other powers. Freezing Rain, for example, or Blizzard. Lots of patch damages seem to express it. It, or something like it, can also be expressed when attacking enemies in a way so that they can't fight back for 10 seconds (ie : slows on enemies with few powers, staying at range).

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True. Though, really, that's only addressing my sidenote. I think the fact that Taunt wholly overrides anything but Burn, Rain of X powers and whatever else is a serious flaw in its design and what makes aggro management (in my opinion) far too simplistic to be fun.

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And your constructive comment for an alternative is WHAT?

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Simple: use the already-present "aggro" mechanics instead of a supplementary and overriding mechanic. If Tankers need to grab aggro, let them do it the sensible way: by being a threat. If this is not possible, it's a problem with the AT design.

For proof that the AT is mechanically hamstrung by these other systems, see PvP.

As a sidenote: there's no reason to be so terse. You might cause offense where otherwise unintended.

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HAH!

Positron made you his lil Bunny Foo-Foo.

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You shut it up! You shut it up right now! No one is a Bunny Foo-Foo unless I allow it!

I don't trust those Canadians. So polite. So rakishly handsome. So intelligent.