TerraDraconis
-
Posts
1203 -
Joined
-
Quote:I think the real target of the closure of Paragon and COH is to kill the unnamed project. That is where they can go wild in claims about losses.Originally Posted by That_Ninja
Wait, if PS had another, non Cryptic-engine game in development, why did they get the axe? I don't care about PWE now, NCsoft is where my ire is going to be. -
Quote:Exactly. Which is why I'm fond of my theory that NCSoft has gotten in the habit of making their books look better by closing a game every couple of years. They found some way to do use it to their advantage and just keep doing it. COH/Paragon made them money but compared to their other sources it wasn't that huge.Originally Posted by Ashtur
Honestly, if you download and look at the NCSoft corporate info, it's pretty clear that CoH is a tiny, almost meaningless piece of the pie. The reduction in sales (worldwide) on Aion from Q1 to Q2 this year is 5x the entire revenue from CoH for the quarter. Yes, that's what I said. Not Aion's sales, just the margin of lower sales...
For better or worse, Paragon Studios and CoH are rounding errors in NCSoft's math.
I don't plan on giving them any more money to round off.
See for some reason NCSoft feels that they can gain an advantage by tossing away a solid $10 Million per year profit source. And remember that was $10 Million profit not the total the game brought in. -
Quote:Actually I think if it was true NCSoft would have jumped all over mentioning it in their closure announcement to deflect criticism for shutting down the game. If they could have deflected the antagonism that is now aimed at them over to Perfect World don't you think NCSoft would have jumped at the chance?Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
And if the rumor is true, then NCSoft should have said that when they made the announcement to us. Simply knowing who delivered the dickshot would put the focus where it belonged. On PW/Cryptic.
Doing it this way they've only hurt themselves. -
Quote:It is accounting tricks. When you do something like close a game you get to write off value of the property based on some period of time. It been years since I had accounting so I no longer remember the specifics.Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
But how would it boost their books? I don't have an MBA (and god willing I never will, the bourgeois pucks), but I'm pretty sure if one's revenue stream declines, that's bad for the books. If CoH was profitable, and it doubtlessly was, then this is a net loss for them both short term and long term.
Intellectual properties such as a game get even more interesting because there is some wiggle room on what is it worth. And don't forget that Paragon studio's had at least 1 possibly more games in development. Those become instantly worth money even unfinished. -
Quote:Oh I agree, the license certainly could be part of it. I just think that if Perfect World was playing with the license fee then NCSoft would be delighted to use it as an excuse.Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I doubt we'll ever know the truth.
It could simply be that there is an annual every 5 year license fee or something or that they had a contract for 5 years of licensing and after that they pay the yearly fee for the next year. And they simply don't want to pay the fee. In that case they would certainly keep quiet if the fee hasn't gone up but they don't want to pay it.
Given that the closure date is 5 years to day from the original buy out I don't rule out the license being tied into this somehow. -
Quote:If you are only interested in this year's corporate report then it makes perfect sense. Somewhere in the late 70's early 80's MBA programs took a wrong turn and emphasized short term appearance of health to long term strategies for health. With the goal of maximizing the books for this years corporate report. Anyway there is a long rant in there about how this has lead to bad business practices being common place since the early 90's. And computers and quick communication only exacerbated the problem.Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
But that doesn't make a lick of sense, not even a tiny shred. When you can't pay your bills, you don't quit your second job. CoH was a compartmentalized money-making machine. It wasn't costing them any money or resources to keep it going, and it was in fact padding their revenue stream. However high or low that profit margin was, it was still profit, and now that profit is gone.
Something else is the culprit.
Anyway as a result of this the accounting and management types focus on the near term profit/benefit to the long term. Worse their investors do the same thing so you get games like NCSoft is playing trading a game that might bring them minor but solid bookable profit for a short term boost to their books. -
Quote:I think if it was #2 NCSoft wouldn't have hesitated to mention it as an excuse for shutting things down. But who knows why anyone does anything really. ::sigh::Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
1. CoH wasn't making enough profit to offset the losses from their other games which is where they make most of their money.
2. There's the rumor that Cryptic/PW refused to renew the license on the game engine or set the renewal price more expensive than what it was worth to pay.
The games shutting down on the 5 year anniversary of NCSoft acquiring the license to use Cryptic's game engine.
3. By shutting down CoH and laying off 80 odd PS employees NCSoft hopes to juggle their numbers to make the losses from their big games less worrisome. -
Quote:Arcanaville has a working teleporter! You heard it here first.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I live 2000 miles from Mountain View. Can you telecommute a drinking buddy?
-
Quote:Unfotunately in twisted way it does make sense. It's a bad habit that NCSoft picked up somewhere along the way. I think they closed their first game because it was losing money but ... they gained so much benefit from the write off's that the next time they needed a quick fix to make their books look good they did it again. And again ... etc. And now they are around to COH and Paragon Studios. Not losing money but not making it hand over fist. ::sigh::Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Makes sense, buisness wise.
Kind of wondering what is this "secrect project" is going to be.
I do think this isn't a healthy way to fix their books because at some point they will have tossed all the easy to write off things. At a guess if their books are needing fixed every couple of years they are doing something wrong. -
Quote:I was going to propose one or both of those as potential variables.Originally Posted by Jack_NoMind
I always sort of assumed 'life partner' was one, and 'drinking buddies' was another of them.
-
That would work maybe if they where doing this because COH and Paragon Studios was losing money. Instead they are closing the game and studio for the loss write off they can put in their accounting books.
-
Quote:25 - 50 million minimum. I'm guessing that NCSoft is writing off COH and Paragon studios for the maximum loss they can put on the books. I'll bet the secret project could in theory be worth several million all on its own.Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
So about how much $$$ you think it would take to save this game?
Which is why they won't be entertaining offers of buy out unless they are very high. NCSoft isn't closing the game and studio to save money but to make thei books look good and the maximum way to make their books look good is by closing not selling the game and studio. -
Quote:Probably not going to be given time or staff to bring it live. Which is a crying shame. I was looking forward to sorcery and some of the other neat stuff.Originally Posted by Head_Kracker
Hello, I rarely ask the devs this kind of question, but since we pretty much have the writing on the wall for the future of coh, is there any possible way to take whats on the current beta server and perform a update so that all the goodies that have developed there can be enjoyed by all before the fade to black?
There arent any major bugs that I can tell and a direct translation should be cheap considering the code is there...but if its beyond the capabilitiys of the remaining staff to code up into a live server I totally understand. -
Quote:Oh well thats why you stopped posting so much. Sorry to see the studio shutting down. Good luck to you and the others at Paragon Studios. ::sigh::Originally Posted by Fire Man
All,
It has been an honor working at Paragon Studios for the past year, alongside the developers, and for the players. This game and the community have been a source of entertainment for me for about 9 years, and I will miss both dearly.
To the community, I can't stress enough how incredible you all are. You are the reason I wanted to work on this game. You have been kind, you are dedicated, and most of all you were just fun to hang around with.
To the developers, you are my heroes and it has been amazing working with you all. Every single one of you were passionate about the projects you were working on, and I enjoyed every single moment of it. Thank you for an incredible introduction to the games industry, and thank you for taking a chance to hire me.
Twitter account: https://twitter.com/bAss_ackwards
- bAss ackwards
To those that wondered why I've been silent on the boards, now you know why. Oh, and sorry I couldn't get Big Red Ball in the game. I'm going to miss Scrappers so much! -
Quote:Yes if this is what you mean by furry then yes.Originally Posted by Steelclaw
Depends entirely on how you define "Furry"...
If you mean "someone who loves anthropomorphic art and web comics, has created several (and I mean SEVERAL) cat, bird, etc characters in-game and has written quite a few short stories and even one novel starring a half-human/half-animal character.." then yes... I suppose I'm a furry... -
Given the number of dragons, cats, and wolves I've built over the years? Nah couldn't be...
-
You are so very very very welcome. Hell all of you are so very very welcome. I'm sorry to see this relationship ending and you being scattered to the winds. Take care and may the power you desire keep watch over you.
-
Quote:I haven't recieved my evil email yet. Though I did have one from Perfect World letting me know that Champions has vehicles.Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Okay this is just rubbing salt in the wounds. I just got this automated email.
Hi John,
Your City of Heroes® VIP subscription on account *********** has been cancelled. This account will no longer auto-renew, and once the current paid-for time expires, you will no longer have access to VIP features in City of Heroes Freedom but you will be able to continue to play for free.
If you wish to avoid disruption to your VIP status, it's easy to upgrade again in-game or through My Account on the NCsoft site to continue to enjoy exclusive VIP benefits:
- 400 Paragon Points per month to use in
- the in-game Paragon Market
- Access to all 14 character Archetypes and over 150 power sets.
- 12 character slots per server, plus slots that were unlocked or directly purchased.
- One free character transfer per month, priority queuing, and access to Exalted, an exclusive VIP-only server.
- Elite VIP content, including the Incarnate System, monthly signature story arcs, and City of Heroes Going Rogue expansion content, costumes and power sets for free and more!
- The City of Heroes Team
Unbelievable. -
Quote:Ahhh. Damnit I've managed not to cry all afternoon too. Oh well here is a hug.Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Thank you.
Thank you for making the job of my team a joy. A Community Manager couldn't ask for a better group of players to be given the opportunity to care for. The devotion and dedication you all have to the game and your fellow players has had a really positive impact on my approach to Community Management.
Today has been emotionally challenging for us all. I'm not a man prone to tears, but I couldn't help but crying as I read the messaging that we would be posting to you during our final Studio Meeting. Even though I was only here for awhile, Paragon was home. In my short tenure, I was blessed to see a new era for the game with Freedom, to watch artists pass the torch to each other as they shifted to new projects, to watch developers have a dialog with the Community rather and work together to make the game better and to work directly with you guys to make some amazing content like the Retro Sci Fi set.
Freedom brought a new life to City of Heroes. The game was, and still is, alive and vibrant with more new players joining the fight every day. It's important to know that Freedom wasn't a failure. This really is a refocusing of direction from NCsoft and unfortunately, Paragon didn't fit into that vision. Collectively, we hold no ill will towards NCsoft and thank them for many years of support.
I know that many of you have questions that need answered. I don't have a lot of answers right now, but please be assured that whomever remains behind to sunset CoH, whether it be myself or someone else, will provide updates as much as possible.
I just can't say this enough; it's been an honor and a privilege to play some small part in the history of this amazing game and it's Community. Remember all of the friendships, bonds and connections you've all made with each other. Cherish them and carry with you into the next adventure. You guys, the people, are what MMOs are all about.
Damnit...now I'm tearing up again. -
Quote:Yes well I like Champions Online it isn't a bad game but ... I like City of Heroes better so I tend to play here a lot more to get my superhero fix. I'll definitely be playing CO more after this since given a choice between DCUO and CO I'll playing CO for my superhero fix.Originally Posted by Unknown_User
Not really sure where I'm going to go. I've tried WoW and the community has turned me off of that game. had hopes for SWTOR but it's really a 'meh' experience. Nothing that warrants me to stay or spend money on it. So far I'm looking at either Champions or DC Universe. I love the Superhero comic genre because I was mostly raised in it and that's why City of Heroes drew me in. So far I'm still kind of numb from the announcement, and probably think of what to do post-CoH in a few weeks.
-
Quote:They where still good stuff even if everyone didn't love them. Glad you dropped by.Originally Posted by JacksonGilgamesh
You know it's been some years since I visited the forums. I got nostalgic and did some searches regarding all my old posts--mostly about the Paragon Times articles. Man, were you guys brutal with the criticisms!
Still, I loved writing them and hearing from you guys. 
Good times! Fond memories. My son was 4 years old when CoH launched. He's now 11 and a big fan of the game. Where does the time go? Even though I've moved on from NCsoft and CoH, it always felt good knowing the game was still going strong and superheroes were still protecting Paragon City. The world is going to be a wee bit dimmer when the the last lights are turned off in Paragon City.....
Gilgamesh and Jackson Turner signing off! -
Quote:Yes NCSoft has a bad habit of closing games that could go on for years bringing in money without a huge cost associated with them. Throw a bit of development their way occasionally and the games will last for years bringing in money.Originally Posted by LittleDavid
The sad thing is, I've had to experience this multiple times. City of Heroes is just the latest title NCSoft published that it's shut down. Auto Assault, Exteel, Tabula Rasa ... And a number of others.
When I learned of the details behind Tabula Rasa's closure, I had already been playing City of Heroes for a while. I vowed to never touch another NCSoft game outside of CoH, because I thought that City of Heroes was one of NCSoft's pillars. A vernerable game with a enough prestige and player base size that the company wouldn't kill it off on a whim because it gave them a steady flow of income at the very least.
I guess I was wrong. And for that, I am never playing another NCSoft title.
The best I can guess is that they probably do some sort of accounting trick when they close a game that lets them write off a big chunk of cash that makes their books look good. They do it so regularly that something like that is the only logical reason. Particularly when you see lots and lots of games rolling along years after they peaked yet still they are out there. Sometimes doing well sometimes just lingering. -
Quote:This is the best chance of any future for the game. Now don't rule it out some other producer could sweep in and grab up COH/Paragon Studios. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on it but the game and IP are pretty good, the studio has other projects in development that would likely be useful to a producer as well. They can likely do it for a fairly cheap bargain of 10 - 25 million and it is likely that NCSoft would take that.Originally Posted by Smurch
2.) Sell the game to another publisher so it can survive
It can happen but again I wouldn't count on it. Though Perfect World did sweep in and grab Cryptic, STO & Champions from Atari when they decided to close things. -
Quote:You could always play ..... Celtic Heroes ... on the iPad. A friend of mine who has resisted playing any MMO for years because he doesn't want to get sucked into them is currently playing it madly....Originally Posted by Ironik
Not going anywhere else. I'll keep playing TF2 every now and again and my various iPad games.
I've never met another MMO that I cared for. Despite any grousing, CoH is the only MMO that's scratched my gaming itch. -
Quote:Yep. Except that even now they are wrong since the game isn't being shutdown because it is losing money. It's being shutdown because NCSoft has to cut something to make their books look better for investors and sadly they picked COH/Paragon not the things that actually cost them money.Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
That's all he's got. Some people have been making doom posts evey 6 months for the entire lifespan of the game. This is finally there chance to crow their "I told you so's".