Sylph_Knight

I find it funny that I've somehow made it into the background of 60% of the HeroCon pictures I've seen so far (I'm the guy with the white shoes and gray shirt on the right).

Great photo, by the way! You'd be nuts not to have that posted on your wall.

Thank you all for the feedback, information and updates.

William, I think I've heard a similar suggestion in the past regarding resistance bypassing as a suggested addition. It's a pretty interesting idea, though probably a hard sell at this stage.

Regardless, thank you for bringing it up. It's good to see some positive energy pumped back into this thread.

On another note, I am starting to really lean heavily on Dersk's major point - the part of the Gauntlet component which Brutes do possess is the most important piece, and the additional effect held by Tankers is so barely noticeable that we hardly realize when it's broken. Of all the reasons, for me this is perhaps the most troubling.

Happy Birthday!

Thank you Frog for setting up that awesome breakfast!

Thank you very much for posting these, Manoa! My poor judgement and lack of a camera left me wondering if I was ever going to have any way to keep these awesome memories in photographic form.

Thank you all for making my first HeroCon so unbelievably cool. It was a new PC or HeroCon, but I'm definitely glad I picked the latter. I think I know how I'll be spending the end of October next year as well.

I'm very sorry to hear and offer everyone my deepest sympathies.

A friend once told me that during a brainstorming session, when asked what makes a GOOD video game, his team could only find a handful of results. When he switched the topic to what makes a BAD video game, the ideas piled on high. So in the case of Gauntlet, a bit of reversal may be necessary to come out with better ideas or justifications to why it needs to be changed. I'm sure each of these have been mentioned at some point in this long thread, but it'd probably be a good idea to consolidate them for reference:

What is wrong with Gauntlet:

* Useless when solo
* Works better with faster execution and recharging attack chains / power sets (slower sets like Energy Melee do not benefit as well)
* Brutes have a less effective version (so it has competition / isn't unique)
* Minimal effect on efficiency / survivability / management (most Inherits carry this theme)
* Arguably detrimental to early-level Tankers prior to obtaining adequate survival tools or the incremental stat gain for higher HP that is more noticeable after many levels
* Does not feel thematic
* Can significantly lose importance in large teams mid-to-late game (Their enemies usually die before you grab all aggro)
* Almost never equates the benefits of taking the power "Taunt" - more so for long activation / recharge attack chains (see above) - also makes its function easy to replace
* Only works on Secondary Power Set abilities and not on Pool or Veteran attack powers (please correct if I'm mistaken)

* Question: Does it activate when you use Taunt or only with attacks? How about with self-buffs? I believe it only works on secondary power set abilities but how about those that don't do damage? Call it morbid curiosity.

What's good about Gauntlet:

* Stacks well with other aggro-management tools
* Can negate need for Taunt on small or low-DPS teams
* Debatable subject: Has unwritten benefit of giving higher HP to Tanker (I argue this is more due to Defensive/Offensive power set selection than the Inherit)
* Works well on fast attack chains

Let me know if I missed anything and feel free to add and lend your thoughts.

To be honest, I've recently found that it's sometimes better to debate things from perception and experience rather than rely on hard math for my theories until the situation in question has been better established. Not to say math is not important or that I don't follow some estimates, but rather that few people carry the talents of Serrate, Starsman, and Arcanaville with a spreadsheet - and I most certainly do not. And Math discussions prove far more confrontational, which hinders (if not negates) all progress in discussion and theorycrafting. Seems that the trend has also sparked more arguments than it has solved. (See: Nerdrage) Besides, math has its own set limitations as it's based on certain control factors which are sometimes better described than calculated.

The End-User Perception is sometimes just as important as the math involved.

While I understand there's going to be disagreements in our perceptions, perhaps it would be better to try and levy experiences and define case examples and then do the math research to back it afterwards rather than wage a numeric war upfront. After all, the perception of Brutes VS Tankers is extremely situational. For example, Tankers will obviously fare better in certain high-risk situations without external assistance than some Brutes.

But let's face it - Brutes do get a really cool Inherit toy.

EDIT: I would like to add that I have heard that Masterminds tend to fill the role of Tankers on Villain-side fairly often since they can distribute damage they receive between all of their minions, giving them higher HP values than initially perceived. I cannot confirm this as I have barely touched villain-side content. However, from a functionality standpoint Brutes do resemble Tankers more closely and there is a fairly wide belief that Brutes are "Villain Tanks" - so even if those of us here understand otherwise, the general populous may be swayed by a different, perhaps flawed perspective. I doubt it will damage Tankers at a critical level, but the basis of my argument is that their inherit abilities and Gauntlet-lite capacities have led me to feel that a revision of our own Gauntlet is justified in some way since they now have access to our content and will be stepping on our toes to some degree.

Pending my sleep schedule (These night shifts are killing me) I may wake up early enough for it. Hopefully if that's the case you guys will still be taking walk-ins.

Q: Is this server filled with unrepentant min-maxers?

A: I HAVE THE POWER!!!

Regarding the Tanker VS Brute concerns:

It is my opinion that the reason we are seeing so many opinions stating that Brutes are in some way better or comparable to Tankers in various forms of functionality is simple: Most Tanker power combinations possess incredible over-the-top survivability at the expense of other forms of combat utility. Meanwhile, Brutes have "enough" survivability coupled with more well-rounded damage output which gives them the perception of being better off in the eyes of many - which may not be entirely untrue. Therefore, the primary concern for the Tanker vs Brute debate is when and where is "enough" survivability equivalent in value to "maximum" survivability - and how this will affect player opinion on numerous levels of gameplay. So far as that goes, it is unrelated to this topic and not a catestrophic issue in my opinion.

But in so far as this thread's main topic is concerned, the fact that Brute Fury is much more flexible in various combat situations is a concern of mine, a valid issue related to Gauntlet, and the potential defining diversifier between these two archetypes. Inherit abilities have been a point of contention for some time since they are more varied (and integrated) on red-side than blue-side and mixing these two together will only make the diversity (and arguably, the entertainment value and utility) of villain-side inherits more obvious than ever.

In short - the problem in my eyes is not which archetype is better, but if the flavor of the Brute Fury inherit overshadows Tankers and their fairly generic and useless-in-solo Gauntlet inherit power now that all of the games' content will be available to all archetypes with Going Rogue. And, if so, what sort of effect can Gauntlet provide to set Tankers further apart from Brutes.

Granted, as others have stated, other Archetypes have equal or greater concerns which should have a high priority on the Developer radar momentarily. But that does not negate the fact that this is a valid topic for Tanker development, namely the current somewhat uncreative application of Gauntlet and numerous proposals to modify it into something more exciting and flavorful.

Game on, people.

In my opinion, Invulnerability is fine where it is. Sure, it lacks flavor - but the power boosts it received has made the set not simply competitive again, but excel. This is especially true with Invention Origins which have a distinctive relationship with Invulnerability due to its diversity. Where as Willpower overshadowed Invulnerability by far when it was released, Invulnerability's survivability and augmentative capabilities now arguably exceed Willpower by a significant margin at the expense of Willpower's endurance utility. Castle did good.

At one point I would have defended Hand Clap, but not so much anymore.

The reason Hand Clap, a power that has historically received much more flak than the ancillary powers that were almost replaced in I13, remains unchanged is because its presence arguably "balances" the power set. I personally do not see missing a viable mid-tier power option as a legitimate balancing tool for a power set. But then, Super Strength has been under fire more than once in the past so I should be grateful no one is tinkering with the set at all.

Still, it's good to hear someone has volunteered to pick up where Mids left off. Joyous news, indeed.

Wickedly awesome update, Positron. Now that's something I can stand behind.

No offense Washington, with all due respect I must concur that the vid was pretty bad taste.

Johnny's "obsession" is little more than an immature cry for attention. His tactics are more in line with the crazies who are disrupting town hall meetings on health care, and he's fallen into habit with it over the years so he's unlikely to drop it as long as he's getting responses. If everyone would quit addressing his presence entirely, he'd give up eventually. People draw power from being acknowledged, even if that attention is negative. That's precisely why Castle and the other developers don't address his "brilliant" ideas. Probably why they haven't been in these forums very often as of late either.

Sylph Knight, for better or worse, will be there.

Sylph Knight did not make any lists. Alas, my egotism has not been widely distributed enough it seems.

I nominate Kaoru Nan'drake and Nursette (My boss and bossette respectively), DJ Winza, Dark_Respite, Bionic Flea, and Nanook (my coach). I got tons of other friends but I dunno if I could elevate them to celebrity status just yet.

But, in my opinion, anyone in the Crimson Moon is a celebrity. (I has bias!)