SuperOz

Hope you get enthused again and come on back. I really enjoy watching your reviews and then playing the arcs (even my own!)


S.

Can't fault a word you say there, Mr. Grey. The most vocal part of the forumites are getting exactly what they wished for, or hoped was true.

I honestly wonder when people became so jaded and cynical about heroes, and what it means to be heroic. Maybe they'd prefer the Minute Men and Rorscach being their contacts instead.....


ClawsandEffect, your argument would work for me except for the fact that the story is written to go Wade's way. Not because he's brilliant or planned well. I think the number of posts (including my own) that are doing what Sam suggests any writer should do (that is to poke around for holes in the story) continues to refute your arguments.

You're arguing the 'flawed and human' perspective on the story when what we actually see is their mistakes. And that's no reflection on your theories on what's happened, it's just what does happen in the story. If the plan is so brilliant, then why can we (who aren't in possession of meta-knowledge of the story) see through it so easily and ask 'hey, hang on...how did Wade....?' and so on.

At some point you have to take a step back and ask if the story works rather than looking at the story and trying to make it work. You're filling in a lot of gaps the story doesn't tell us about without asking if it works in the first place. And the point you have to do that is the point that the story stops standing on its own merits.

Look at your most recent post. You're giving explanations you personally see as to why the story works (and that's fine, noone begrudges you that), but I don't see how that backs up the story as presented, which is what myself and Sam and a few others are arguing here. I know for myself I'm looking at the story as a reader first, and it simply doesn't stack up. It's not me looking for problems in the story; they're so glaringly obvious in my eyes I can't help but see them. I'm not being an apologist for the Phalanx or anyone else.

Nor do I ascribe to 'because they're human and flawed, they're more interesting' argument. Look at Superman. That S-Shield of his is the second most recognised symbol on the planet and although he might be to your eyes superhumanly competent and such, he and his ideals are admired and respected regardless of culture and class. That is the mark of a good character, nothing to do with how human and flawed they are, something that has been frankly overdone and is overused in literature lately.

You don't have to be a good flawed character, you just need to be a good character.


S.

I agree with you Sam on all your major points. I would also point out that there's one member of the Phalanx not being touched on here because they haven't been drawn into this at all...he wears power armor and is also probably the author. I think you can draw your own conclusions on that one.

I could see as soon as Wade declared he had a master plot that apparently bypassed the ability of the game's major magical factions to work out (if the stuff about how to kill Incarnates had been around since Imperious, why didn't the Thorns or the Mu know about it and try the same thing?) and cursed Statesman with what...the second or third time he'd been captured by magical means?

Anyone who says he underestimated Wade is is being disingenuous, because the game writers themselves established behavior and knowledge for their NPC's.

I appeciate Paragon Studios want to sell this as their divergent point from Cryptic and the past, but I have no hesitation that any outside media source that covers this or player that comes into it fresh won't see it as anything other than really forced and to be brutally honest, a bit self-serving (see comment about power armor above).

So much of this arc reminds me of what's gone on in the big two comic companies, but I think they haven't thought long-term about the fallout. There's two lessons I always bear in mind with writing.

1) There's always someone with a bigger stick;

2)Even heroes need heroes.

The first one is obvious; if we the players become the thing in the game, then where else is the story for us blueside? Does that mean starting players just treat any of the NPC trainers as irrelevant because the SSA arcs have proven you wouldn't want to do anything with them? There's no new bar to set, there's no challenge as a player or a character at that point.

And I believe #2 holds true. Don't we want to be part of the premier superteam, be they the Justice League or the Avengers? Those characters, no matter if they're the patriot or the dark vigilante or the self-made inventor, are characters we admire and want to be like. We wouldn't call them heroes if they didn't. I know that's not a universal for everyone and some people might even say 'we're more mature and sophisticated audiences than when we were kids, that sort of thing is old hat now.'

So why even play a game about superheroes if that's not what we're trying to be? Superheroes are our modern mythology, where we draw inspiration and aspirations even from. High ideal? Perhaps, but they resonate with us nonetheless.

I for one like the paragons of virtue to aspire to. They have a place and a deserved role both as a character and as a player. Making them 'flawed and human' lessens both them and the setting that they inhabit.

I'll personally be very grateful when Paragon Studios gets over their pretensions at superhero deconstruction. Alan Moore you aren't, with all due respect.



S.

I saw it in 3D, and I wondered honestly why they bothered, Every single practical SFX shot with things blowing up you could clearly see the debris bouncing off the plastic protective shield for the camera. So instead of being drawn into any scene, I just became more and more aware it was a gimmick.

And one that wasn't used at all well. But then I only have considered Avatar, TinTin, Puss in Boots and Hugo to have been any films that thought about how to use the 3D effect rather than just slap it on for the novelty factor.

Beyond that, the crucial test for me (do I notice my butt going to sleep and I start getting uncomfortable) triggered. It's entertaining popcorn fare, but that's about it. I could drive a truck through the plot holes, but there's no point as it's not what these films are about. They're about Kate Beckinsale looking sexy in PVC leather killing things.

It succeeds.


S.

I was wondering when the writing for this film would come up....the major problem I found out was with the rights themselves to even make this update.

It turns out first of all that the producers could not acquire the rights to the vast majority of the Howard estate, which resides largely with Marvel (who got the film rights after the Schwarzenegger movies). Now, you may be asking why didn't Marvel sue?

It turns out that when Marvel was going through their downsizing a few years ago, a lawyer misrepresented Marvel and sold the rights to make this film without their permission. Bear in mind this is just the movie rights, and virtually nothing of the literary rights, which is why you get just one scant quote from Howard's works, that being the 'I live, I love, I slay, I am content' bit.

As soon as this movie was released, Marvel filed an injunction against the production company to make any further films using the names and likenesses of the characters.

So it was pretty much a bit of a trainwreck from the getgo. And that's sad, because Momoa was particularly passionate about the role and even wanted to write a script should a sequel get greenlighted.

As it is, this will probably be a one-off until the court case is settled and Marvel decides what they want to do with the license.



S.

Yep, here y'go:

http://atopfourthwall.blogspot.com/

Lengthy, but necessarily so.



S.

I just wanted to chip in and say that I think it was Sam who put a link to Linkara's review of Identity Crisis that went up only a couple of days ago....

I watched it and I can only say that the writers on this game currently should thank their lucky stars that Linkara doesn't review story arcs on MMO's. That was one of the most singularly concise, logical, well-thought out dissections of a story using continuity of character, logic of writing and simple reasoning to say why he didn't like the story.

I can't recommend this review enough even if you'll never read Identity Crisis.

But it totally and completely underscores all the arguments that this thread was started for and shows you what can happen in a story when really important things are taken forgranted and things are done just to get attention. In Linkara's own words...

Just sayin'.



S.

Statesman Prime. I had to laugh....next he'll be making meta-jokes about the players...


S.

I'd immediately put Ascendant from Virtue up for it. If there's a single player I've ever heard of that has been here since the literal beginning, and is every single inch the archetypal 'Paragon City' superhero, it's him. Even the name fits, personally.

But I agree with Liquid; I would like in the story that same opportunity.




S.

Well, I'm wondering now that Flame is a 50 and a fledgling Incarnate whether it's not time for the Clicky-Clack Posse to truly form to help her do Trials and the like. I'd be all for that, working around her schedule and all.

What say you all?



S.

Sister Flame dinged to 50 over the weekend. Now I think we should form the Clicky-Clack Posse for real and help her with Trials.


S.

This is a good question...


...maybe let all the players who ever hated Jack Emmert loose so they could maybe...build a bridge out of his rendered body and GET OVER IT? /endsnark

Sorry, I just had to type that after seeing the waves of bile that still spill over towards the former Dev that apparently so many can't seperate from the character. It's a game, kids. There are better things to do than hate on a guy who doesn't even work here anymore.


But for Statesman the character? I would've let us see him at the absolute apex of his power, absolutely terrible and frightening, the full Avatar of Zeus just before dying, just to remind Wade that unlike Wade, Zeus is a true Immortal.

And if there's anything I remember about Zeus is that he's not the most forgiving sort.

That being said, I guess I should put in the call to Kevin Sorbo. Time to bring back Hercules(tm)!




S.

I'm sorry I missed it! I was at a friend's birthday party else I would've been there like a shot!

CONGRATULATIONS SISTER FLAME!


Wyll, perhaps you could organise a proper ceremony for us to come and show our appreciation to our latest 50? I'm sure to be free tomorrow, as I think Sister Flame has caught us off-guard!



S.