SquidheadJax

But it's silly to buy high-value set IO recipies to do that, especially since they don't count toward the category badges as well. I do that with basic University recipies all the time, like I mentioned in a prior post, but with stuff like that...

...
o_0
There are people dumb enough to sell those things under cost?
The universe just keeps inventing better idiots...

On the other hand, for those of us who are crafting most of our current output in search of badges, that's providing us with quite a bit more than the zero inf we'd get from trashing to free up space

And I don't like spending half my time waiting for my clickies to recharge.

Both problems are alleviated on higher-level characters in their respective games. CO's system offers multiple avenues to shift energy management emphasis away from the Energy Builder at very low levels, just like some CoH powersets mature complete attack chains earlier than others. Not that the average player would figure that out from the documentation, of course, but that's Cryptic for ya.

Now, if you'd complained about Control powers doing next to nothing to NPCs, I'd be right with you. CoH definitely does that a lot better.

For 0-100 post-encounter, 17 seconds consistently, by removing the cooldown on Rest

But coming up with a good balance point for in-combat energy regen is hard, and it's also entirely arbitrary based on the balance point the devs want to set to try and make the game enjoyable. Personally, I think we should be able to charge the bar in a matter of seconds and have most clickies eat 1/4-1/2 (or sometimes all) of the bar, but that's because I actually really like Champions' combat mechanics*. Even in the context of CoH's system, though, I think that characters get tired way too easily at the basic recovery rate, so I would personally prefer it higher. Even if that meant giving NPCs a little buff at the same time.

*Though that's just about the only thing to like.

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This is the whole point. Not relative level of difficulty, not people wanting an easy button, but that taking Stamina provides such a global buff to character performance and reduction in downtime that to otherwise match it requires tightly-designed builds and/or expensive IO set synergies. That's not good design.

Personally, I would eliminate Stamina altogether, play with the base recovery rate, and eliminate the cooldown on Rest. But taking Stamina out of the power choice structure where it currently resides as the 800-lb gorilla in the room and making it inherent is better, at least.

When in the process, alternative benefits to implement more real choice are involved, yes.

I don't believe that the Fitness pool should exist even as inherent powers. Sucking wind between spawns is an issue of boredom, but there are other good, simple solutions for that (like getting rid of Rest's cooldown). If the base energy recovery rate is too low to maintain combat at a decently fun pace for most of the playerbase, it should simply be raised outright. Inherent Fitness still results in a non-choice, just a less onerous one.

As a GIS professional, I would find such functionality in the game awesome.

Or perhaps could add it.

I can haz job maybe? (bloody economy...)

Personally I'm not very worried about the overall slot budget. The number of slots is what the number of slots is. Really, the number of powers is what the number of powers is. It's just silly and annoying to only have one good choice in a system predicated on diversity of build choices, which is why I welcome the coming change. I'm fine with inherent fitness, I just think broader tweaks might get an even better result.

If all someone wanted were the Stamina benefit, then that wouldn't change the amount of slotting that typically happens now. And if the benefits were ranged in the magnitude of set bonuses, then choosing to stick a slot in another power to fit a bigger set would likewise be a viable choice instead of a non-choice. Conversely, it'd be the 'poor man's' shortcut to getting a boost or two that they can't afford (or slot, if they don't have compatible powers) all the relevant full sets for.

I do expect that's how the Incarnate system will work as well, but my understanding is that it will only be available at 50, which doesn't do any good until the end of a character's development lifetime. And I would hope that the selection of benefits from that would be a bit more varied and robust, too.

I concur.

I'd also suggest that, instead of making the Fitness pool inherent as separate powers, have a single inherent power that does nothing but serve as a container for enhancements to apply directly to the character. Have the effects scale in line with IO set bonuses and be subject to ED. That takes the problem of Stamina and turns it into a feature. The player then has a choice of buffing all their energy efficiency, or accuracy, or regen, or... instead of calling out a single aspect as a power choice.

*snerk* So true.

Makes sense.

Same issues.

Only difference is having a chain of three powers that improve every power you have (and even more aspects of the character) as opposed to a stack of three with the every-power benefit only at the top. Better than current Fitness pool, but still a non-choice if building for effectiveness.

I find myself thinking about something else now, though. IO sets complicate things. Since IO sets seem to almost all include Endurance reducers, to get their full set bonuses one must almost always slot in End reduction anyway. Since Stamina's benefit to all active powers derives partially from less need to slot End reduction over other enhancements, what will the effect be on the popularity of IO sets?

Um...

You just explained why Stamina as a power choice is lousy system design. It's something that enhances every active power a character has by freeing up enhancement slots that would otherwise have to be conservatively dedicated to energy management. Getting it is an absolute no-brainer, even with an cost of three power picks - you get the choice of 24 gimped powers or 21 supercharged ones.

Now I hope they look at something to mess with regarding Hasten, though. It's in a similar category. I'd rather see it totally dropped or given an Endurance cost tax than made inherent, though.

I think this is more an argument for Hasten not existing, period.

Then maybe they'll start looking at the pool powers as a whole and seeing which ones need refocused or repurposed. The fitness pool is easily the worst offender, as taking Stamina objectively is a massive boost for a single power. Upping energy recovery is essentially the same as slotting an end reduction enhancement on every power you have without spending the slot. I don't know if other pools have such issues, but if most people were squeezing them out of their builds before in favor of AT, epic pool, and other pool powers, then it would seem they're at least not as broken as Fitness.

As far as teaming, people who want to team will team and partake of team content. People who don't, won't. Playing in teams is always more effective and dynamic*, but the human factor can easily spoil the fun of teaming and turn people off from it. A solo-friendly system means that people who are turned off from teaming aren't necessarily turned off from subscribing.

Finally, ignoring the low level experience is a great way to strangle the flow of new subscribers. Focusing on starting levels in Praetoria with the Going Rogue release and shoving every new player into that richer experience first shows that Paragon is aware of this, in contrast to, for example, Cryptic's STO team and the absurd upside-down leveling curve and low level crawl there.

*Even in CO. It's just that difficulty in the open world is generally already too trivial to notice, and anyone who doesn't team isn't encountering team-scaling instances or set-group instances.