SokMunki

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One are we.

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To quote one of my married friends (the wife to the husband): "Now we are together. What's mine is mine and what's yours is mine."

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"But I love she and she loves me, enraptured are the both of we, yes I love she and she loves I, and will through all eterrrit-eye!"

I'm having a Tom Lehrer kind of week. I have no idea why.

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There are 248 couples in this game.

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And I'm one of them.

We're two of them?

One is us.

Dangit.

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I also quibble that the revelation that the test environment was screwy didn't result in the developers rethinking particular nerfs. Sure, there's still been nerfs, but I suspect they weren't as severe as they were going to be had the playerbase not caught the problems with the developers' test environment.

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FYI, the nerfs to Regen on Test Server at that point in time DID NOT change due to the demorecord being found borked. The same nerfs that were already there went Live even though it was shown the Internal Test Environment was screwed up.

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Just to reiterate: this is true. I'm hardly suggesting that the developers did not push the changes through. What I'm saying is that I suspect the changes that could have eventually gone live based on the busted test environment didn't happen. The changes went through because the developers thought they were appropriate for live.

The alternative is to suggest that the developers believed the nerfs were too harsh compared to the live, non-busted environment... and pushed them through regardless. I don't think they'd do that.

I admit it's a semi-subtle distinction. For the PvP issue, for example, you can say, "Despite Statesman's assurances, these changes to powers were because of PvP." I can say "The changes address both PvP and PvE problems, but the changes are overkill for fixing the PvE problems." The net result may be the same, but I think the difference is "you're lying" vs. "you've made a poor call for the PvE game."

NONE of which addresses my opinion about the specific changes or the level of communication we've had about them from the developers. I just believe they're far more likely mistaken or misguided than misleading.

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Sure, there's still been nerfs, but I suspect they weren't as severe as they were going to be had the playerbase not caught the problems with the developers' test environment.


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I'll let you all take this where you will so I'll just point out that not a single thing changed after finding out their internal test server had a horrible bug on it.

Actually I take that back, they did end up nerfing MoG between that time and the Issue going Live.

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Agreed.

The question is: "Despite the bug, did the developers wind up deciding that the changes were appropriate for the way the game was balanced on live?" The answer, apparently, is yes.

Now, it would've probably helped if the developers explicitly stated this: "We've fixed the busted test environment and also made some runs on test, and we believe the changes are still best for the game. They work well in the non-busted code, so we're keeping them." Sounds reasonable to me.

Are the changes overkill in the live game? Maybe. The developers don't seem to agree.

Did the developers say, "Whups, these are busted and will bend several scrappers over a hard wooden chair. Hrm. Well... too bad, so sad, push 'em live anyhow." I very much doubt it.

At the most cynical, I think Hanlon's Razor might apply here.

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It all happened to start with the I4 regen nerfs and the devs claims of how overpowered Regen was. Their examples included Regen doing such amazing things as solo'ing large groups of +8 bosses. They even went as far as to provide demo "proof" of this feat, a post in which Statesman made a snide comment about us "conspiracy theorists". Well, low and behold, their test enviroment was completely borked.

Apologies were made and thanks given, of course it did nothing to change the course of the nerfs, but I guess that could be viewed as a seperate issue.

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What I take issue with (although I haven't kept up with the thread) is the fuzziness between "The developers are wrong in their assessment of the gameplay", "The developers are implementing a poor solution to a valid problem", and "the developers are lying." The first two I can accept wholeheartedly. As your example points out, they've been wrong. My opinion about the Phase Shift change and (to a lesser degree) movement power supression is that the changes are overkill for the PvE problems.

But lying? No. I don't accept that. I think what happens to a lot of people, myself included, is that we read statements by the developers, take away what we want to hear and ignore the caveats, and when those caveats kick in we turn around and state, "But you said...!"

I think this post by Positron is a perfect example. A search for Statesman's posts pre-I4 should turn up the "whenever possible" caveat. When supression came up there was some speculation that it was strictly a PvP issue, but posts by Statesman, FrostyBot, and Pilcrow -- the latter two going in and demonstrating the PvE problems with movement powers -- showed that there was a PvE problem. Now, whether supression is a satisfactory solution to the PvE problems...

As an aside, I'm going to quibble that Statesman ever called those who disliked the actual changes "conspiracy theorists." He did mention Conspiracy Theorists here, but in context I take that to mean "people who think the developers faked the Zapru-- er, test video. I also quibble that the revelation that the test environment was screwy didn't result in the developers rethinking particular nerfs. Sure, there's still been nerfs, but I suspect they weren't as severe as they were going to be had the playerbase not caught the problems with the developers' test environment.

My only comment (right now, anyhow) is that I suspect a primary problem with PvP is the lack of incentives. Apparently even people who love PvP want some sort of perk to come out of the fight. Otherwise, why bother?

I was surprised by this, actually, since I thought a lot of people liked PvP for it's own sake. I realize there are other issues with PvP, such as the lack of one-on-one balancing, but I suspect the lack of any reward is the primary culprit for PvP's faceplant.

In any case, bravo for writing a negative post that's thoughtful and reasonable. It's quite refreshing compared to the typical petulance and/or histrionics normally displayed.

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The most I've seen of CCGs on the whole is...
"worse than horrible"
...in fact, the art might be the only thing I'd like.

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I'd recommend Heresy, then. (Not to be confused with the Horus Heresy, which I gather has something-or-other to do with Warhammer 40K.) I never made sense of the rules, but apparently it wasn't that tricky of a game. The card size apparently made it physically hard to play.

The artwork though... the artwork was fantastic, with lots of stuff by Brom and Bradstreet, and the card size helped show off the quality of their work.

Overall, I look at I5 as a mostly painful process that needed doing. Sucks when it happens, but:

1) letting things go would probably be worse in the long term, and
2) most folks wouldn't have minded if things were like this right from the start.

I do hope that those who are unhappy with the changes give the game a month or so before deciding to bail. I was pretty leery of a lot of the changes, but thus far I haven't noticed anything horribly dramatic.

Of course I don't play one of the specific builds that got a lot of, erm, "negative attention," so take that for what it's worth...

I am mildly disappointed that some of the now-locked Developer Response threads didn't get a developer response. I realize there were a horde of such threads and having an ongoing dialogue on all the issues would be unrealistic... but certain changes seemed large enough to warrant some additional attention. In particular I thought that the Phase Shift change came in rather late in the I5 cycle and was a fairly dramatic change to the power. I'd hoped to hear more about the rationale for the current solution and why it was a better approach than some of the player-proposed solutions.

I hope Croatoa is fun and I look forward to experiencing it with my up-and-coming characters.

Back to the game for me... as soon as I get home from work, dangit.

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Also remember that the Freakshow will work for anyone who provides sandwiches and a keg.

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I didn't think they actually ate. I thought they got their energy from their drug and batteries or whatever... HOW do they deal with their bodily functions? Are those claws and hammers removable? o_O

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Groupies.

Sad. Desperate. Groupies.

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Look, they had twelve kegs of Shiner Bock. What did you expect me to do?

I drew the line at the sponge bath, though. I have my standards.

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It's the same symbol that Lord Recluse uses, although I'm not certain if it has an official name or not.

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It is definitely not the Arachnos symbol.

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It really does have a chitinous look about it, though. I suppose that could reflect their metallic blades and hardware more than a connection to Arachnos (perhaps the little dots on the circle are rivets).

Still -- CONSPIRACY!

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I want to make sure that you guys know that Ice-based powers work on the fires as well. That is why you are able to target the fires with any power.

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Heh. And here I was shooting the fire with Gloom, thinking it might help.

"I know! If I cut it off from the sunlight, it'll wither and d-- oh. Wait."

Haven't read the thread, don't care about 'snarky' responses.

Just wanted to say that I'm glad you've got your priorities straight. I've got one brother-in-law fresh back from Iraq and another who's slated to go to Afghanistan (YET again, even as a proud new papa). Thank the heavens for those who are willing to fight in defense of our country, and I hope your brother and everyone else in the military comes back hale, hearty, and ready to give constructive feedback about this game of yours.

Now, regarding Hasten...

What few powers I managed to test -- I liked. I agree that the actual sounds could use a little more flavor, but otherwise great set.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I reluctantly agree with Eranna below me; the damage level seemed a bit much compared to other Defender secondaries, and I loved the Endurance usage... which means that it's far better than most other sets. This set may be "too good" compared to the others.

Presuming I'm right about the Endurance, I think this set is a model for the other sets to ape, not a set that needs to become as wearying as the others.

I haven't encountered many of these, but I found the "stop 30 Soldiers from entering portal" mission to be... extremely tricky. It was like watching the Oklaholma pumpkin rustlers at work, with stampedes of Soldiers cascading over the gentle hills. An awesome sight, but one that spelled "Mission Failed" over and over again.

Maybe cut down the portal's "aggro?"

Otherwise, nifty. I like the helper heroes.

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"Sounds like it's somewhat based on White Wolfs 'World of Darkness' rules set. If so thats awesome! The WoD ruleset is one of the best, more freeform and roleplaying friendly PnP ruleset there is

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the game uses the UniSystem. The UniSystem was, I think, created by C.J. Carella and first appeared in the game Witchcraft published by Myrmidon Press. Eden Studios now uses the UniSystem (and publishes Witchcraft) for most (all?) of its games.

If you like the WW system you'll probably like the UniSystem; they feel a lot alike.

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:Anyway from the looks of the character sheet, you're still getting powers exactly like you would in the CoH MMORPG by security level. You had 4 main Stats, Strength, Dexterity, and 2 others I don't recall off the top of my head alas. I believe these were rated 1-5.

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Presuming they're using the same stats as the Buffy RPG, I'd expect the last two are Constitution and Willpower (Psychic stuff, dontcha know). I'm surprised they ditched Intelligence and Perception... possibly moved these things to Qualities.

So, if you started at Security 2, does that mean no one had movement powers? I have to say that I find the level/power mechanic to make a lot of sense in an online, 100K player MMOG... and not a lot of sense in a tabletop game. I'm quite disappointed to hear that; I hope that you guys just got a heavily streamlined version to play at the con.

Everything else sounds like standard Unisystem rules (I like how they adapted Inspirations to the system), which are great for fast, "wing the details" gameplay. I'll still buy it since I do collect RPGs, but if I ever run it I may have to mesh the core Unisystem with the power setup of Mutants and Masterminds.

EDIT: I left out "Constitution" originally. No idea why I thought LunaShadow mentioned it.

When I first started the game, I was given a choice to talk to some guy named "Back Alley Brawler" or one "Ms. Liberty."

I thought, "which one would I rather look at?"

There y'go.

EDIT: Edited to turn this post into English.

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How do the rest of you come up with creative stuff?

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Maker's Mark.

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My "understanding" seems to be broken, what?

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Sorry; 'hootch'.

EDIT: I'm setting a bad example, I'm sure. Kids, you get the same effect by extending your arms and spinning around really fast about two hundred times. Really.

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How do the rest of you come up with creative stuff?

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Maker's Mark.

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While I enjoy all the speculation, I don't think Incarnates in general will have direct ties to gods, because really, who would believe that there were 1000 incarnations of gods running around in one city? That would be obscene. Plus, the public tends to be touchy about having gods in games. Incarnates definitely could be products of ancient magical rituals, though -- rituals dating to the Classical period, or to even longer ago.

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Hrm. If you accept "Spectral Demon Lords" into the game, then I think you open it up to a lot of possibilities. Most of the people that currently revere 'ancient' gods tend to be pretty laid-back about their inclusion into things, and people who don't... well, they either accept the argument "it's just a game" or are cranky about sorcery getting promoted by J.K. Rowling, hence they tend to be touchy anyhow.

Regarding the 1000 fragments problem: that depends on your interpretation. Not so much "THE avatar/incarnation/embodiment of Zeus", but "An avatar/etc. of Zeus." "Indras all" and whatnot. I'm thinking of Billy Batson/"Shazam!" here; I don't recall precisely, but I suspect the various deities involved could have given all that power to someone else in addition to Billy if they'd chose. Hence the idea of a curse that Lord Recluse: the deity's power because of some act of hubris is split among mortals.

Granted, the more I think about it, the more I think Recluse's statement was meant to say: "Most people say I'm cursed, but after I'm through with you, Mr. Stateman-pants, you'll think you're the one who's cursed." Still, I like the idea that being an Incarnate is both a blessing and a burden simultaneously.

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My only gripe is that Stateman (much less Recluse) doesn't seem all that.. Zeusy.



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maybe the american who marched off to ww1 decided to use the power to his theme rather than playing on the greek theme. I've always liked a hero who doesn't go full tilt into the theme life has hashed out for them.

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Ah, good point. Didn't really consider the 'possession' aspect.

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well, his mask is sort of greeky helmety. (or is it spartan?)

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I think the Spartan/Greek helmets pretty much looked the same: according to Google this is Spartan, whereas this one's Greek (Corinthian, according to the web site).

Anyhow, I think it makes a lot of sense. Might be the curse Recluse is referring to. I wonder if the "curse" is because of hubris; Zeus (and possibly the other gods) got the Furies on his bad side and so he's forced to be incarnated into the mortal realm to atone.

One condition of the incarnation might be that you don't have one incarnation, but two: the good side and the bad, fated to battle for supremacy. (Setting aside the multiverse, of course, where there are several different permutations of things). Or, more likely given that we'll eventually have player incarnates, one god can have multiple pairings... each a fragment of that god. They're immortal until they destroy their opposite, then the curse lifts.

My only gripe is that Stateman (much less Recluse) doesn't seem all that.. Zeusy.

Anyhow, just blathering.

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I laughed out loud at the submariner design. 8)


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I did too... but the next one, the one for The Thing....

made me picture The Thing in a thong

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Thing... Thing a thong... Thing is loud... Thing is strooonng...

Blackjack!

(I don't know if this indicates how well the color-coding works for character identification or how big of a geek I am. Probably both.)

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While I agree wholeheartedly, the way some fundamentalist Christian sects view this sort of thing is that any manifestation of evil (comic book demons, video game necromancers, pea-soup-spitting girls in Mario Puzo novels)

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Threadjack alert! Or... threadjacking the threadjack! Something! Just be alert!

Anyhow, wasn't that William Peter Blatty rather than Puzo? Or is there a White House dinner scene in "The Fourth K" that I'm unaware of?