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I'd have more room for Smoke Flash if it didn't break hide. Will I take it again after Issue 19? We'll see.
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Quote:Ah. So you're mainly concerned with passive verses active mitigation, the idea being that passive > active mitigation in terms of pure effectiveness. I can see that.You misinterpret what I'm trying to say. Ninjutsu's passive mitigation is pretty much defense and a heal. My argument doesn't lie with the 'point' of the set but the flexibility of the set.
Some might prefer active over passive, but you're quite right about the reliability of passive mitigation.
Quote:Consider Dark Armor, another Rogue set. It's passive mitigation? Resists and a heal sort of like Ninjutsu. But that's not all. You've got a power that can rez you when you die, stun everything around you up to Elite Bosses and give you 15 seconds of Untouchability.
Not so binary.
I see what you're trying to say, now.
EDIT - and I get the point you made regarding mixing resistance with defense and heals. Meant to say that too.
Quote:Ice Armor has some resists + damage debuffs as well as defense and endurance recovery. The heal I'd exchange for a passive +HP +regen buff and since we need to come up with a different tier9, something usable decently often without a crash (perhaps even limiting combat in some way like Hibernate would) and you've got some decent passive mitigation and some utility thrown in. The single trick in the set could be the Ice Slick. Bypassable, yes, but still extremely useful vs multiple targets.
As to the tier 9, off the top of my head a unique power would be a buffed version of Arctic Fog. Place it on a timed toggle like Hibernate, and up its defense. Make the confuse 100% chance, and give it similar duration/recharge as hibernate. Graphically, give it the same treatment as Dark Armor's cloak power, where it obscures the character with a cloud of white mist. Give it a crash, don't give it a crash, based on how it's balanced.
Too much? -
To answer the question of what would be the perfect primary set, I would want to see something that capitalized on a stalker's ability to leverage burst damage.
Strictly off the top of my head, I banged out an idea for a set that might do something like that. I call it:
Psionic Melee:
1 Psychic Fist - You wrap your fists in psychic energy and deliver a quick punch to your enemy. The attack deals minor damage, but the psychic residue makes your opponent think they're more damaged than they really are. The illusory damage goes a way after a few seconds, but if they are defeated beforehand the defeat is very real.
1 Neural Chop - You wrap your fist in psychic energy and use it to deal moderate damage to your opponent. In addition, your blow wreaks havoc with your opponent's central nervous system, temporarily shutting some bodily functions down for a few seconds. Your opponent will take a little longer to recover than when hit with Psychic Fist, but there's a small chance that the attack will leave your enemy disoriented for a short time.
4 Dream Daggers - You sweep your arm in front of you as though you're releasing a spread of venomous daggers. They are very real to your opponents, however, dealing moderate psionic damage in a wide cone in front of you. The damage is moderate, but as with the first two attacks feels worse than it is. Opponents think they are poisoned and suffering poison damage over time. The illusory damage fades after a few seconds, but is very real in the meantime.
6 Psionic Strike - standard AS, but all psionic damage
8 Build Up
12 Placate
18 Telekinetic Burst - You deliver a roundhouse blow with a fist of psychic energy, knocking your opponent into the air and sending them smashing to the ground with tremendous force. Because they think they've been knocked higher and fallen harder, the attack deals extra but temporary psionic damage in addition to the damage dealt by both the punch and the fall.
26 Waking Nightmare - This purely psionic attack deals devastating and real damage to an opponent's psyche, made even more terrifying because it happens from a distance. Your opponent is lost in a nightmare of your making, and in addition to the damage suffers from a high mag fear effect.
32 Mind Ripper - A devastating attack. You bring both fists down with full psychic force on your opponent, knocking them down and dealing extreme damage. The psychic shockwaves ripple out, invading the minds of your foe's allies and making them think they too have taken damage from the attack. Mind Ripper deals real superior damage to your target and moderate illusory damage to up to five foes within a fifteen foot radius. If any of these foes are defeated before the mental damage disappears, they too will fall.
Apologies for the stupid sounding names. I put like ten minutes' thought into this.
The premise of the set is similar to spectral wounds from the Illusion Control set. The idea is to reward a stalker's ability to exploit opportunities to do damage and bring foes down with burst damage spikes. The illusory damage would not be counted in criticals, and Psionic Strike and Waking Nightmare carry no illusory damage at all. Mind Ripper deals illusory damage only to those in the AOE. The actual damage of any attacks that also deal this illusory damage would obviously have to be scaled down to balance the extra illusory damage, but the illusory combined with the real damage should bring the set significantly above other single target sets in total damage potential due to the fading nature of the illusory damage.
It would require some heavy testing to determine the correct levels of damage and the duration of the illusory damage, and most attacks would do a combination of psionic and smashing damage. -
Quote:I really have to disagree here. If you're using Ninjitsu as defense plus a heal you're doing it wrong. You can - with at least some reliance - separate the stalker secondaries into two categories: Taoist and Rogue. The Taoist gets its mitigation by focusing on self reliance. Regen, Willpower, Super Reflexes, are perfect examples of this. Rogue sets get their mitigation by directly affecting the enemies' offense, and Ninjitsu, Dark Armor, Electric Armor and Energy Aura are examples of this. (although Electric Armor to a lesser degree)While I think the tools of Ninjutsu are quite novel for the way a Stalker should function, the passive mitigation it offers is very binary. It's basically just defense and a heal.
My point is that if you're using Ninjitsu as a Taoist set you're missing half its mitigation.
Caltrops slows their movement and (I think?)attack rate, but more importantly it carries a hefty fear effect, meaning that they're actively trying to leave the patch and not attacking you. Combined with Ninjitsu's defense toggles that's hefty mitigation.
Blinding Powder confuses, sleeps and holds, but not everyone and not for very long. Again, it's intended to slow and redirect damage, not stop it altogether.
Smoke Flash... well, yeah. It's intended to slow incoming damage, but IMHO it doesn't do it very well. They need to either up the accuracy considerably or give it a chance to placate individual foes, but that's a topic for another thread.
You seem to see Ninjitsu in terms of its uses as self mitigation, and if you're doing that you're missing the point of the set.
Quote:Of all the 'Taoist' sets, I think Willpower works really well. Point: It has just enough +HP to get you near the cap but not over it while providing you with a good deal of passive resistance. It's got some nice defense to build off of too as well as passive Regen and full mez coverage. Yeah, it's not as 'active' as Ninjutsu, but lets you focus on offensive tactics and meshes well with active primaries (paired with Dual Blades or Dark Melee and you've got tools you'll be too busy).
Quote:That said, I think the perfect secondary for Stalkers would basically add multiple (bit) layers of passive mitigation with probably 1 primary 'trick' to use as misdirection:
-A bit of +HP and regen to get you near the cap
-Some resistance to some of the damage types
-Either a good amount of active +def or small to moderate amount of passive +def that's always on
-1 trick to distract multiple foes -
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Very nice guide, Bill! Got me thinking about a possible rework to my second build into a human form based on your advice!
Might want to mention a bit about binds, since Peacebringers rely on them even more than Warshades (IMHO) to pull off some of those epic combos.
Ordinarily I'm a dedicated Tri-Former with an emphasis on melee, with opportunistic blasting from nova thrown in when necessary or on melee-heavy teams.
Two powers that I think deserve consideration on your Tri-Form's optional powers list are photon seekers and dawn strike. Together with white dwarf flare, they make an awesome reset button for those times when your pocket tank is getting a wee bit overwhelmed.
In heavy spawns (like tanking the ITF) you can - while waiting on dwarf attacks to recharge - combine inspirations to make a break free and a blue, pop the BF and whatever oranges and purples you like, hit flare to knock everyone down, then drop to human and hit build-up, photon seekers and dawn strike. Dead spawn. Pop the blue and hit conserve power, then it's back to it. If you've got the +end proc in dwarf, you're back and rolling by the time you've mopped up the stragglers.
Only time ever my PB made a fully-kitted scrapper stop and say "WTH was that?!"
Brightstorm went boom.
EDIT - that seems a bit covoluted, but the point is really that the mobs that are knocked back by Photon Seekers are generally still in range (even though they're in the air) of the Dawn Strike when it fires, and so finding a strategy that combines them could serve tri-formers well if used from a tanker form that can cluster the mobs together. -
Would LOVE to have an alternate to the Incandescent Strike/Thunderstrike/Seismic smash/Total Focus animation where your toon jumps in the air in slow motion and brings both fists down.
Also would love an alternate to the Whirling hands and whirling axe that actually looks like you're dong more than jumping up and attacking the ground in a vicious circular fury. Don't mind it so much for the sword sets, given that the swords are - you know - long enough to reach the enemy when the attack animates.
EDIT - and +1 more vote for the fist animation for solar flare
EDIT(the sequel) - can I haz the chicken dance emote as an alternate for my mind/ controller's mass confusion? -
Quote:Don't want to pay attention to kills? Okay. Don't want to maintain counters like fury? Don't. Since the counters are only limited to three, and an AS will get you two of the three in about as many seconds, I don't see too many people worrying about maintaining the buff. And if you can't get an AS off in a given spawn, taking down just one minion in the opening alpha will get you more than one critical on a placate.If I wanted to have to pay attention to who lands the killing blow, I'd play DotA.
Addendum: I do not play DotA. There is a reason for this.
Further:
If I wanted to have to rush from spawn to spawn lest I lose the buffs I got by defeating the last one, I'd play a Brute.
Addendum: I do not play Brutes. There is also a reason for this.
I don't know about you, but when I'm limited to three stackable buffs at a time, I don't really obsess about maintaining them because just ignoring them altogether and playing as I normally do will - more often than not - keep me just over halfway there at two buffs. The third one's gravy.
It's not a perfect suggestion, but I like it.
It gives you options; it doesn't bind you to a particular playstyle. Is it a bit kludgy? Yep. Gimicky? Yep. But it retains the flexibility for you to make the split-second tactical decisions that a ST burst focused archetype needs to make without getting in the way. The amount of stacking could be adjusted downward or the decay could be shortened, but overall it's a good start I think.
By the way, what's DtoA? -
Somebody clue me in: is the control-click on a power to make it auto fire broken in pvp? (or W.A.I?)
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Now you're rockin' and rollin'! I liked the build quite a bit before these changes, but I've a feeling you're going to be very happy with this one.
I never did find my PB's Mids build. Meh. I've been meaning to respec him lately, anyway, and the discussions in this thread have got me thinking that I juuuust might have to break out Mid's in my spare time this afternoon! -
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Quote:Don't get me wrong, Spirit - I get your concerns. Many people share them. I also agree that there shouldn't be just one way to approach every spawn. They're just posted in the wrong place. A theoretical fix that affects just the stalker archetype can be tested internally and possibly be given a short run on the test server for open testing.1. Lets be clear: I do not, nor have I suggested that hard targets should exist in every spawn. I think what I actually suggested was something along the lines of 30% of the spawns in large teams. A statement that every spawn should contain hard targets is ridiculously bad, but also fairly meaningless in this discussion.
2. Code... I'm pretty sure that the selection of mobs is something that many AI missions abused the existing code to do. If having the odd EB spawn seems technically dificult, imagine how much harder it is to get window reflections to work. Some players may remember tiny a bug from I 5 (or was it I6?) that replaced nearly all minion spawns with LTs...
3. Most importantly: I do not consider it good game design to require players to face each and every spawn in exactly the same manner. Play is different things to different people, but even if it's relatively easy going, adaptation is a good thing.
4. The root cause of selecting against the single target archtype is the lack of relevance of single target damage. I call it like I see it.
I'm not really understanding the root cause of your concerns... If it's that big a deal, imagine more controls on difficulty selection that provide the option of EBs... and adjust rewards such that it would be desireable to use those controls.
A change to the entire spawning paradigm of the game is going to have major balancing issues that will require internal, alpha, beta and open testing, because it involves everyone, not just stalkers.
In other words, while changes to the entire game like you're suggesting may well benefit stalkers, let's not ask them to change the entire game just to accommodate stalkers. Your concerns with spawning and the problems with this being an AoE game to the exclusion of single target have been hashed over many times by many posters.
Don't use this thread to promote a wider agenda just because you think a developer may be reading it. -
Quote:Those "common builds" of which you speak are all centered around AoE damage. People choose to create and play many characters based solely on their aoe ability. Regardless of how much they're slotted, AoE powers are less efficient DPE-wise than single target attacks. Think that electric/shield scrapper is going to be happy with smaller spawns and single hard targets? How about that Fire/Kin?I really don't think it would impoverish the playstyle or tactical variety of common builds to have to deal with more hard single targets.
And I really do think there would be a lot of opportunities for marginalized single target builds. As others have mentioned, this isn't just stalkers.
EBs might or might not be the perfect scaling point for a single target, but that's not really my point.
See, if you're going to be spawning hard targets with every spawn then the number of minions and lt's are going to drop, otherwise you're talking about a significant shift in the difficulty of this game. Think that might impact a few playstyles? Powersets that rely on large groups of minions around them - like willpower (rise to the challenge) Ice (chilling embrace) and shield (against all odds) would indeed have their abilities stripped.
Never mind any of that, however. You're talking about changing a completely different code base when you're talking about changing the makeup of spawns verses making changes to stalkers. As such that suggestion would be better made in the suggestions forum and not the stalker forum. Yes, it might impact stalkers, but the changes are so broad that they frankly have no place in a thread dealing solely with stalkers that is in the part of the forums that deals solely with stalkers. -
If you like that suggestion by Leo, you'll love this:
Quote:Not that I think Stalkers are in desperate need of a damage buff, but reading the threads gave me some inspiration.
So a different spin on the "Killer Instinct" inherent idea:
-I always like to think of exactly how an idea would be implemented so it draws not only from Jibi's thoughts of more 'controlled bursts'.
-Also pulls from the tech shown in the new Fiery Embrace change.
-The ability of Mastermind's Smoke Flash power.
-Finally, Castle once suggested a change to Blaster Defiance when it was being looked at, that change being a buff for every foe you defeat.
Assassination Inherent
(what we've got)
-Bonus damage on Assassin's Strike from the 'Hidden' status (PvP and PvE)
-100% critical chance on single target attacks and 50% on AoE attacks from the 'Hidden' status (PvP and PvE)
-Demoralize on a group of enemies if attack does not defeat the target (PvE)
-Scaling Critical rate for each ally within 30ft range (PvE)
-20% chance to critical hit held or slept foes (PvP)
(what this idea would add)
-A 'Killer Instinct' counter for each foe the Stalker defeats with a primary power (PvE)
--You can only obtain 1 kill counter per power used. So a ST attack will get you 1 kill counter if the foe is defeated by the attack. An AoE attack will get you 1 kill counter if one or more foes is defeated by the attack. A successful Assassin's Strike, if the foe is defeated or not, adds 1 kill counter.
-You can stack up to 3 'Killer Instinct' counters that will basically appear in your buff bar as a unique icon, each of which will last approx. 30 seconds.
-Stacking more than 3 kill counts will rewrite the oldest counter's duration.
-Using Build up or Placate will basically expend the 'Killer Instinct' counters and reset them to 0.
Why focus on applying this to Build up and Placate? Because, as is, Assassin's Strike is already a strong tool with alternate uses (an Alpha dampener and burst attack from hide) while BU is pretty Binary and Placate does have some defensive capabilities and limited offense, it *is* a unique power to Stalkers...
Placate- When you use Placate with 0 kill counts, it acts like it does now. But for each kill count you rack up before using Placate, you basically get *another placate*. Think of it like MM's smoke flash that lets their Jounin chain crit for a short duration. Placate will basically be a BuildUp/SmokeFlash mash-up that basically boosts damage by giving you up to 3 extra chain crits *if* you defeated 3 foes within 30sec (or started out with AS and then defeat 2 foes within 30sec).
Build Up- When BU is used with 0 kill counts, it acts like it does now. But for each kill count you rack up before using BU, you basically get a 1-shot 'Fiery Embrace' damage add-on that is enhanceable by the inherent damage buff of BU. Think of it like Fiery Embrace, that adds (i believe) 45% of the base damage of an attack as fire damage. So BU would be a Placate/FieryEmbrace mash-up that gives you a +15% extra added damage to the next attack(the type of damage added would depend on the set...so Claws would add lethal damage and Energy Melee would add Energy damage) for each kill count you have...that's +45% of the base damage of an attack added if you kill 3 foes within 30sec (or started out with non-BU AS and then defeat 2 foes within 30sec).
I could see various approaches to take in a fight, some lending better to certain sets but every set being able to exploit any of the available approach due to the make-up of all Stalker sets. -
You can put off stamina on a stalker, even a dark armor stalker. I'm currently growing a praetorian Kin/DA stalker and at 14 he's got both shields and shows no sign of slowing down. I'd probably switch Parry with Health, for starters. Then I'd take Obsidian Shield at 16, Super Jump at 20 and Stamina at 28.
You could swap out Disembowel and Dark Regen to get DR after stamina, but with the theft of essence proc you might not care so much about that. -
Well, bear in mind that hitting build up before the AS will expend the KI counters, meaning that you have to choose whether to use them in build up or placate.
Basically, when AS'ing an enemy you can use build up , expend the three counters and get the bonus damage. You'll assassinate your target to get another counter, and (if you didn't kill your target with the assassination) get another counter when you kill him. Then you placate the next guy and get a critical on him and on the next guy. (possibly getting counters on both.)
Since the counters are timed to expire, I don't think three would be too out of whack given that a placate or a build up clears the count.
I do think we'd have to give something up to get this, though. -
Quote:You need to be more than tough to tank. You need to attract aggro, and you need to be able to sustain aggro. A dwarf has a taunt effect built into its attacks for that purpose. They don't have to be slotted with damage, but some accuracy slotting goes a long way.You say that I'm not going to tank well with the dwarf slotted as it is... why is that? I have slotted the dwarf for resistance which is what a tank needs to perform its job. Granted there isn't a lot of damage behind the dwarf because of the lack of slots but the way I think about that is if I'm already on a team as the pseudo-tank I just need to keep the agro on me and others will be tailored to damage. I'm interested in what you could come up with if you re-did the build to be what you would consider a good tri-form with the dwarf properly slotted?
Now you could just swap those damage IO's out for Accuracy, but keep in mind stamina won't be helping you in dwarf form, and the end increase granted by the toggle will only pay the cost of the toggle. So you'll either need to slot some endurance reducers in those powers or slot the form itself for more than damres.
It all depends on how much tanking you want to do. I think if you went back and slotted accuracy IO's instead of damage IO's in your three attacks, and possibly put an Achilles' Heel proc in White Dwarf Flare, you'd be off to a start. Moving the Blessing of the Zephyr slow resist from dwarf form to white dwarf step will let you put a performance shifter proc in there, as well, and will go a long way towards fixing any end problems.
A large part of the aggro mechanic depends on damage, however, and any peacebringer who's considering doing any serious tanking had best slot those dwarf attacks with some damage, else scrappers and blasters will be pulling aggro.
Like I said, it all depends on how much tanking you want to do. Can you tank in a pinch? Sure (and that may be all you want to do.) Can you tank for a full team? It'll be tough. Can you tank a TF? No.
But also like I said, I don't think you really need to tank. You've got damage, range, a nuke and three really angry white dots that like to go boom. A Swiss Army knife is a good knife, but it's still only a pocket knife. It's not a weapon by any standard. You've got a weapon. Enjoy it.
Wrt my build, I may just have lost it - I'll have to look on my laptop when I get home. If it's there, I'll post it. Otherwise, I'll have to recreate it. -
Quote:Kind of ambivalent about it myself. I also think/worry that Castle saying he's extremely aware of where stalkers fall and that he intends to do something about it that he doesn't necessarily think stalkers are behind.Because, while I do enjoy reading and brainstorming ideas, I'm sort of in the school that doesn't think Stalkers really need an offensive buff.
Doesn't mean I can't enjoy a good idea, though.
Quote:I hear all the arguments about how Scraps get better survivability and damage and how situational AS is, but in the actual game...I just never see it. Perhaps on paper, but when I play (and I play other stuff besides Stalkers), the game turns out vastly different.
There's something to be said for finesse, and that's what has always appealed to me about stalkers. On teams, however, I've found my experience post I-12 sinking ever-so-slightly downward into the boredom of random criticals and button mashing, and the changes I've liked the best bring a little thinking back to the archetype that I'm afraid it just might have lost.
I don't care about out-damaging scrappers. Let them leap headlong into the spawn and button-mash their way to the boss in a rabid fury. I'd much rather be standing over the boss's body when they get there and snicker as I toss them his head.
I just looked up and re-read my last paragraph. Yeesh, the melodrama! Sums up how I feel, but sometimes I make myself roll my own eyes.
...moving on... -
Yes. Set bonuses from inventions do carry over into the forms, regardless of which power they're slotted into.
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Oh sorry - thought you got shot in his volley.
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One thread up is Soul Storm's Tri-form Build, but it's very heavy on human and nova - so much so that I would recommend taking it for human/nova and just dropping dwarf form, freeing up four slots for whatever power you replace it with.
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You're not going to be tanking very well with your dwarf form/dwarf form attacks slotted as they are, but I also don't think you're going to need to tank very often.
Let me just throw this out there - in most heavy mezzing situations you're likely to be in either light form or nova. Light form offers mez protection, and nova offers altitude and range. Get mezzed in nova, and you just sort of float there in relative safety from the heavier hitting melee attacks. If you've got mez resistance built in from IO's it'll carry over, and it's much easier to right-click your way into a breakfree in the air.
Have you considered just dropping dwarf? That would free up four slots, enabling to take, oh... Pulsar and five slot it with Absolute Amazements for 10% more recharge. Alternately, you could take provoke from the presence pool and use light form as your tank mode. I closed out Mids already, and so I don't know if you have 5 5% recharge bonuses already, but if not you could use the extra four slots to five slot Perfect Zinger for the 5% recharge and the 2.5% damage buff.
Alternately, throw in a couple of accuracy IO's, a recharge IO, the damage proc from Perfect Zinger, and the stun proc from Triumphant Insult.
But, really, those are just options. Keeping Dwarf isn't a bad thing, either. The best advice I could give you a this point is to try it out, because it's good to go pretty much as is. -
Quote:Seconded on Ninjitsu. A stalker's build is so tight that - if you're going the def route - Ninjitsu will be much more flexible for a first-time stalker than SR.Anything/Ninjitsu would be my first recommendation. I just recently played a Ninja Blade/Ninjitsu Stalker with Ninja Run/Sprint as my travel power and that has been a bit of a thematic blast for me, at least.
I'd also recommend DM over MA, purely for its less resisted damage type and the synergy of its -tohit with def secondaries.
Do yourself a favor in the early levels - don't take stamina or a travel power. You're a stalker, so you'll have no problem getting to Grandville to buy a jetpack form the jetpack vendor, and the five slots that frees up lets you play around with things like caltrops and Kujin Sha. The lack of stamina will also be a kind of baptism into a more tactical way of thinking, as it punishes you for playing a stalker like a scrapper or a brute.
Use a vetspec sometime around 24 to get those powers back, if you like. But odds are you might not even miss them so much that you mind taking them later. Stamina by 30 on a stalker is pretty much standard on all my builds.