Sentry4

I'll update my inventory as time goes on.

For those who don't know, 52 HOs were created by a glitch a long time ago that no longer exists. For this reason, the number of 52 HOs are declining as people quit the game, lose them, or accidently delete them. For this reason, the 'value' of 52 HOs is steadily increasing, as they are still the most effect method in many circumstances.

Popular for pure DPS or PvP is slotting 2 level 52+ Acc/dmg HOs with 4 procs. This gives 75.93% ACC and 75.93% DMG with 4 damage procs.

52 HOs are just as useful as 53 HOs, as after buying a cheap (50 mill) level 50 Acc/dmg HO, you can combine 52 --> 52+, equaling 38.3%/38.3%, the exact same as a level 53.

As stated in other threads, HOs like these have even gone for prices such as 3 billion before. These are a must have if you want to 100% fully min/max your characters.

Lastly, there is no difference between Synthetic and Non-Synethetic. Both can be combined. The name only suggests how the HO was earned, but they act the exact same way as each other.

There are currently -none- on the market and hasn't been for some time now.

Inventory (Updated):

3 Nucleous HOs - 2 Billion each
4 Synethetic Nucleous HOs - 2 Billion each


PST @Mr Perfection for details, questions or negotiations.

Which server?

What type of rules? (map, time/stock, HD/No HD, TS/No TS, lore/No lore, alpha only, no incarnate, insp/No insp)

Sunday as in tomorrow? Or the next week? Or next month?




The lottery system seems like a good idea, but that's coming from someone who doesn't mind losing.

I would not suggest going on with this event.

As someone who spent the last 3 years with his attention on Fight Club PvP, I know, and 2 of my friends know, there are certain combinations that are going to dominate this competition.

The rules are so specific that I can already see the limitations on people, making it impossible to counter certain tactics.

You've taken Rock/Paper/Scissors and removed the Rock. Everyone will be rolling Paper, and since WP is the only secondary, there is nothing to kill Scissors.

As fun as this competition may be for some people, understand that a couple of us diehard min/maxers will completely obliterate this competition. This is some of the most imbalanced competition I have ever seen.

Do not give away prizes for this, and no dev should help organize this. If it were to go through, you'd have 3-4 PvPers killing everyone else within the first minute for every single match. It would be broken as hell.



I -could- provide a nice list of powers to ban in order to stop this from happening. For example, stop WP/SS tanks from spamming Jab/Box with 3-4 procs and killing everything. In this case, you'd ban Boxing from the competition.

If you include set bonuses, you have a select few who know exactly how to PvP spec their build for fighting WP toons. The gap between the average player and the top player would be extremely high. This would look unfair to people, and really, it is.

If you exclude bonuses, then you see a few privileged individuals using 53 HOs and damage procs in their attacks. Dominating frankenslotted toons.

If you make it SO only, it's impossible to enforce them from frankenslotting because there's no way to tell.



So here are my problems with this idea.

If you enforce WP only, I can think of 2-3 combinations that could not be countered.

If you enforce no set bonuses, you have a huge gap between 53 HO users and expensive procs vs those who can't afford it.

If you enforce SO only, there's no way to know if someone is lying or not.


My biggest problem with this competition is that it wouldn't be a competition at all. I'm known for specializing in Melee Fight Club duels and have been for years, but these specific rules here just make my job a million times easier, and while I had to make my build have enough accuracy for SR/EA/Shield, or have enough recovery for end drainers, this means I can go full out regarding a lot of things.

It wouldn't be fair, at all.



Conclusion: I don't want to annouce what would break this competiton so that everyone can make them, but I'm willing to respond to a PM from Aumakua explaining it.

For PvP I only use 51++, 52+ or 53 HOs in my builds to get the full effectiveness.

A devastation acc/dmg +5 = 33.1% or rather a regular level 50 nucleous

A acc/dmg 51++/52+/53 HO = 38.3% which is 5.2% more than the former.

When slotting these in multiple powers or multiple HOs in one power, the difference is very noticable for me.

Enhancement boosters mean you can get bonuses, but using IOs that's always been the case.

Better %s vs Set bonuses

Sometimes, the %s mean a lot more, or you've hit the rule of 5, or it can't even take a set in the power.

51++/52+/53 HOs are still much more powerful than +5 IOs, and as a sometimes excessive min/maxer, I wouldn't take any less. I have used enhancement boosters before, but I've never replaced 38.3/38.3% HOs with 33.1/33.1% IOs.

If we're to compare regular HOs that aren't combined, it's only fair to compare them to regular IOs that aren't enhanced.

HOs have never been replaced, since nothing gets the job done as well. Especially when considering the glitch creating HOs above level 50.

If you aren't willing to dish out 2 billion for those, then I suppose enhancement boosters are a cheaper option though.

As for making them useless? Crushing impacts existance never hurt Hecatombs usefulness, even though they are much cheaper and more avaliable. As long as +5 IOs are not as effective as slotting a high level HO, they won't impact it's effectiveness at all.

Zwillinger, I recently found something that broke during issue 13. Domination for Dominators isn't working properly, and there are easy fixes and suggestions on how to fix it here. I've tried to get some attention to it, but have 0 idea whether someone is taking it seriously or not.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=287947

Even if you could assure me it's been written down somewhere where someone will see it, that would be very nice. Bookmark it and look at it when you're free if you have to. Thank you.

EDIT: ^ This is PvP related ONLY

As to PvP balance? I always point people to the original Super Smash bros game. It has a tier list, meaning some characters are -typically- better than others, just like every other fighting game.

At the same time, the top player (Isai) can beat -every- other player in the world with -any- character, usually winning by a mile as well (worldwide).

For me, that is balance. It means that regardless of the character, the amount of skill can -always- overcome that, through tactics and build strategy.

We have that to a certain degree, but honestly, the "skill" that can make any character good is knowing how to IO it properly, and while that does indeed take skill, it can also be passed over to someone who knows nothing about the game.

This is why people rarely share their own builds on the forums.

It also makes me hate how set bonuses are listed. Especially with big PvP bonuses showing. Give me 30 minutes and I can reverse engineer someone's build almost entirely. This means if someone else does this, they could have most of my builds, or something very similar to it. Wish they could be disabled in PvP zones like they once were.


If you wanted this game to be more based upon skill that isn't IOing properly, the only way I see it is to make it similar to how it was pre-i13. Some good changes have been implemented since then, but make PvP -faster-, so that reaction time and knowing your stuff is what makes you survive and get kills.

At the time being, people can take their time and relax while PvPing, because fights take a long time and both sides are constantly being slowed down. I'm never shaking because of the intensity of CoX PvP like I used to. The appeal to PvP is the adrenaline rush.

I've never tried to create a list to fix PvP, but I wouldn't mind these changes implemented, given other changes that are affected by them or affect them were also changed with them.

-Take out inherent +res in PvP
-Take out DR (This system is too complicated, Devs cannot balance things they don't fully understand, and players have no idea how to build their characters)
-Maybe give everyone a +100% dmg buff (things die faster) to counter the survivablility power creep since i13 (Incarnates)
-Lose TS/HD



I cannot stress how complicated PvP has gotten with DR and other mechanics. I -know- it's too complicated because I find mistakes in the coding on a weekly basis, and have a list right now open on my screen of over 20 PvP exploits that wouldn't exist if the programmer understood DR and PvP completely.

Anyone can take a look at the thread I posted.
PvP is so complicated these days that nobody had noticed their inherent power didn't work for 3+ years. That would get picked up before it even hit live if Dominators PvE had Domination stop working for them.

I don't even mind throwing away the years of experience I have dealing with DR. It definitely gives me an edge, an edge I shouldn't have, but I would prefer PvP without it.

Worth noting that the PPM goes off the recharge of the power, not the recharge of the pet. I've heard some asking about this lately with PPM in pets.

Although the thread may belong here, I feel it was my duty to alert the PvPers that their characters were bugged and their inherent was not working correctly.

This bug has existed since i13 (3 years), but this thread has multiple sources of evidence to prove that Domination for Dominators in PvP does not work as intended. It explains why as well.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=287947

There are solutions at the top as well as Arcanaville's suggestions halfway through.

I'll try to get some GMs to look at this thread, as well as bug it ingame.

Thanks for reading.

It looks like it's been broken for over 3 years.

Here is a post by Castle. 10-14-2008

"* For Dominators: Change normal control Duration base to 4 seconds for Stun, Sleep, Hold, Immobilize, Terrorize, Confuse, Untouchable, Intangible attributes. Duration of Status Effects (Hold, Sleep, etc.) no longer scale by level; instead they have fixed base durations. Change Domination control Duration base to 4 seconds for Stun, Sleep, Hold, Immobilize, Terrorize, Confuse, Untouchable, Intangible attribs. Duration of Status Effects (Hold, Sleep, etc.) no longer scale by level; instead they have fixed base durations. Change Magnitude bonus from +3 to +1."

Specifically the last point. "Change Domination control.....Change Magnitude bonus from +3 to +1."

http://coh103.gtm.cityofheroes.com/s...d.php?t=125865

Doesn't look like it was a stealth patch. Looks like Castle broke it and didn't realize it, since he annouced the change himself.

I'm posting a link to this thread in the bug forums now.

100% sure of it. Not only does it not work on paper or in theory, it doesn't work with tests.

To MrLiberty, in that test, I'm absolutely sure that both in Domination and out of Domination, both would hold for very very small times (CM can be stacked to around 15% mez duration). I'd bet my reputation on it, but I'm willing to test it with a couple friends.

It's worth noting that in the second test, I had acrobatics on. The 3 seconds of Mag 0.8 hold (on combat attributes, not held) only outlasted the original hold because of my hold resistance.

I can assure you that if this was fixed, dominators in domination would hold everyone twice as long (as they'd actually ignore hold resistance). Confuse would last twice as long too (everyone has tactics).

On the other hand, not many squishies have stun resistance, so the change for stuns would be minor.

The tests seem pretty straight forward, and the theory checks out. It was tested in 2 different ways mind you. Using a Mag 1 Confuse (Possess ignoring suppression), and using a regular hold that ends with a Mag 1 hold (Dominate in Domination).

Domination isn't working as intended.

Maybe I can get Arcana here to look it over.

and it has been since issue 13.

While this may be better fit for the bug forums, I feel the PvP community should know this right away. The tests I've been doing have just uncovered that Domination does -nothing- to increase your hold times. This would explain the confusion others have had regarding how much longer holds last with Domination.

The answer is that it doesn't increase mez durations at all.

The problem is that Magnitude is DRed (Diminishing Returns), and a magnitude of less than 1 doesn't affect targets. I don't believe this is common knowledge among the playerbase or the devs as no mez I'm aware of has less than 1 under any circumstances, except with, of course, PvP.

Let's look at Char from Fire Control on Doms. Here is the link to RedTomax.

http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...e_Control.Char

In Domination, stated as "If source.kStealth > 0.5", it applies

4s Held (mag 1)

With 3 tags.
1. Floating text "DOMINATION"
2. Unresisted
3. Mez Suppression

The normal "4s Held (mag 4)" a player gets out of Domination is resisted, and therefore lasts roughly half the time of the unresisted hold, as melee players have around 50% mez resistance and squishies with acrobatics (aka, all of them), have 50% resistance to mez as well.

The problem is that the "mag 1" of the Domination version is DRed to 0.8 mag, which by itself does not hold the target.

While it's true that the magnitude of the hold goes from "Mag 4" to "Mag 5" while in Domination for the duration of the first hold, it's worth noting that after achieving a Magnitude of 1 or greater -after- DR, any addtionally magnitude is worthless.

While many PvPers already know this, the difference between a Magnitude 4 and a Magnitude 5 hold is -nothing-, as Hold Protection doesn't exist in PvP, only resistance. This means Magnitude means nothing outside of reaching 1 (after DR).

Castle knew that Magnitude 4 and Magnitude 5 were the exact same. That's why he made the Domination hold -unresisted-. In this way, he believed he was making Dominator holds unresisted while in Domination. Whether or not that should be done is another note by itself, but with what is before us we can conclude that Domination has been broken for years and is not working as intended.



The Evidence (There is more down below in other posts, it's been confirmed multiple times):

What led me to believe this originally was the existance of the new confuse from Dark Control.

Possess is broken in that the Domination part of the confuse ignores suppression. As seen here, it is missing the tag "Suppressed when confused for 15 seconds". The same tag every other confuse in the game has.

http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...ontrol.Possess <-- Domination portion lacks Suppression

http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...ontrol.Confuse <-- Has the mez timer tag as every confuse should


This means, in theory, someone should be able to spam it and obtain perma confuse. The problem is that it's only Magnitude 1. When I tested this, it took -2- stacks of Possess to keep an individual perma confused. This is because the Magnitude 1 was DRed to 0.8 and did not affect the individual. These results were the first to lead me to believe that Domination holds didn't do anything.


Next, I went into the arena with a friend.

She used Dominate, I was held for roughly 3 seconds. No Domination.

Second, she used Domination, then Dominate. I was held for, again, roughly 3 seconds. The difference was, that for 3 secounds -after- that hold, I had 1 Magnitude hold on me that was being DRed to 0.8 and it was not holding me. This was all viewed in Combat Attributes.

This is good news, as the problem could be much worse. It means that Castle was correct in that the Domination hold is not suppressed by the non-Domination hold, but it also means that Domination doesn't do anything since it's only Magnitude 1.


Solutions:

There are 2 solutions to this problem.

1. Turn off DR for Magnitude. (EDITED: Mag 1 is not enough on it's own. Make it greater than 1 and -then- make it unaffected by DR)

As I've discussed earlier, the magnitude of a control does not impact it's performance on players because the lack of Protection in PvP. The only holds impacted would be those with a Magnitude 1 that are being DRed to below 1, to an ineffective level. Castle, as well as any other Devs, intended for these magnitude 1 holds to be effective. Those who changed holds in Issue 13 purposely made the Domination part of holds -unresisted- in order to make Domination worth something. Unforunately, there wasn't enough testing done, and the complex mechanics of DR hasn't allowed players to test it.

This solution is definitely possible, as things such as +HP and +Range already ignore DR. If anything, DR on Magnitude was an oversight that's taking away the best ability of a Dominator's inherent.

2. Increase the Magnitude of all Domination holds to 1.5 Magnitude. (EDIT: Arcana mentioned how anything above Mag 1.27 would work if DR still affected it)

This may be a simplier solution. 1.5 Magnitude is DRed to be above 1, therefore all the Doms holds would be effective once again.


Last Part: This part is important for you PvPers to read.

Do we want this fixed? Feel free to discuss this down below. I only present the numbers and the bug, but if I were to recieve enough negative feedback, that they should -not- fix this because Doms would be overpowered, I am willing to delete this thread.

Should we even bring attention to this? Would this make PvP better or worse?

I've actually been discussing some PvP bugs with some high level GMs lately, so it's likely that we could get this fixed, especially if we're to bug it ingame.

So there you are. Domination has been broken for over 3 years now. Although some of you may have noticed this in regular PvP, this explains why, which is what is necessary to convince devs to fix it.

EDIT: As discussed below, it seems Magnitude needs to be higher than 1 to affect the target. Even if DR didn't affect the Domination part of the holds, they would still not work. There are 2 things limiting their effectiveness. 1. DR 2. Only mag 1

I have these numbers from not to long ago, regarding KB in PvP. Since the DR curves on the totals of KB and KB prot are the same, the only real DR being applied is to the strength that enhances the base KB.

There's 2 slotting options I have.

1. 6 Kinetic Crash
2. 6 level 50 KB IOs

Levitate/Lift
Base 12.463 Base KU
1. 28.3 KU
2. 30.5 KU

Energy Blaster Power Push
Base 13.294 KB
1. 30.2 KB
2. 32.5 KB

Blaster Power Thurst/Dom Power push/Blaster Telekin Thrust/Dom Telekin Thrust etc.
Base 16.617 KB
1. 37.9 KB
2. 40.7 KB

Force bolt
Base 18.694 KB
1. 42.5 KB
2. 45.8 KB

This means whoever came up with 41 KB knew what they were doing. It'll protect against multiple powers avaliable to doms/blasters if they were slotted to the extreme. Of course that was before enhancement boosters. If someone was to use 6 level 50+5 KB IOs, that 40.7 KB would become 41.9 KB.

Since "41 KB prot" was the old standard if slotted to the extreme, then 42 KB prot should be the new one with enhancement boosters.

Lastly, Force bolt isn't actually the most KB there is, storm has that title.

Hope this helps everyone.

If you have an enhancement with +5 and want to remove the extra levels so that it can be sold, it's very simple to do.

1. Take them out via respec or enh unslotter
2. Find a random person, -anyone-
3. Start a trade with them (randoms always accept, lol optimism)
4. Drag the enhancements (from your tray) to the trade window as if you were to trade them
5. A pop up appears, asking if you're fine with the +5 being stripped off (also works on combined HOs). Click yes
6. Cancel Trade

It's quite easy, doesn't take multiple accounts, or friends, or anything. If you're in atlas or cap, someone there will accept a random trade and you can remove the boosters off of it.

GL