I think I sort of get what you are testing/saying but Domination acts as advertised. I'm pretty sure most have known since shortly after i13 and people started to retest the pvp changes that domination hasn't infact boosted mez duration.
Its a very easy test to set up, have a naked target (no IO's, no toggles) sit there and take a mez in domination / without domination. Times will be the same.
Bring in an emp and stack CM's on the target, mez them again with domination / without (its easier to see with powerboost because mez times are already pretty short)
The CM'ed mez resistantce capped target will be mezzed signifcantly shorter without domination.
There was of course the myth that it still increased mez times for a while, but what people were seeing was just domination cutting through acrobatics and making said mezzes longer than they would have been without it.
Are you sure about that? I'm pretty positive the unresisted part of Domination is not broken, last I checked. If it is broken, then it is certainly new.
Besides, Dominators are already pretty damn good, I don't think they need any fixes or help.
EDIT: Lib got to it before I could.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
100% sure of it. Not only does it not work on paper or in theory, it doesn't work with tests.
To MrLiberty, in that test, I'm absolutely sure that both in Domination and out of Domination, both would hold for very very small times (CM can be stacked to around 15% mez duration). I'd bet my reputation on it, but I'm willing to test it with a couple friends.
It's worth noting that in the second test, I had acrobatics on. The 3 seconds of Mag 0.8 hold (on combat attributes, not held) only outlasted the original hold because of my hold resistance.
I can assure you that if this was fixed, dominators in domination would hold everyone twice as long (as they'd actually ignore hold resistance). Confuse would last twice as long too (everyone has tactics).
On the other hand, not many squishies have stun resistance, so the change for stuns would be minor.
The tests seem pretty straight forward, and the theory checks out. It was tested in 2 different ways mind you. Using a Mag 1 Confuse (Possess ignoring suppression), and using a regular hold that ends with a Mag 1 hold (Dominate in Domination).
Domination isn't working as intended.
Maybe I can get Arcana here to look it over.
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
Domination has always worked fine for me.
To Be Honest - my Dominator is so good I rarely have to use Domination. Only when I'm in a bind.
I believe a good dominator build will always remain good. Do we want this issue fixed for Dominators? That's a good question. They're quite capable classes, having both control and blasting powers, it makes for a pretty nice mixture. Sentry4 has very valid information concerning the lack of code involved for DR with Dom's. Good post!
A couple of general comments:
1. DR affects scale. Every power effect has a magnitude and a duration (possibly zero). One, and only one of them, can be enhanceable. If its magnitude, its defined to be a Magnitude effect and the Scale of the power equals its magnitude. Damage is like this. If its duration, its defined to be a Duration effect, and its Scale equals its duration (and a different field in the effect definition specifies its magnitude). Most holds are like this.
If you can slot the mez effect, and the duration goes up, then that effect is a Duration effect. Since PvP DR *only* affects the Scale of the power, it can only affect the Duration of this effect. It cannot affect the magnitude. A mez effect that is a Duration effect with mag 3 can have its duration increased or decreased, but its magnitude is fixed. Nothing, not the purple patch, not PvPDR, not any resistance in the game, can alter the magnitude of that effect. Its absolutely immutable.
2. Mag 1 mez effects don't affect anyone on their own. Pretty much everything out there has a default -1.0 base value to all their status flags. Mez status attributes are sometimes called Boolean attributes. That's because they are evaluated as a true/false: if Flag > 0 then True, Else False.
Note: greater than zero. Not not negative. When you increase the base magnitude of a mez attribute from -1.0 to zero, the target is still not mezzed. *Anything* higher and they would be. A Mag 1.01 hold would work. 0.01 is greater than zero. But 1.0 doesn't work. It can only stack on other mez.
That's why mag 1 mezzes don't seem to do anything. They shouldn't with anyone with the normal -1.0 base mez attribute without mez protection.
Long ago, Thunder Kick in the Martial Arts set had a 100% mag 1 hold. The players complained that mag 1 didn't stun anything. So the devs changed it to a 10% mag 2. Now it had enough magnitude to stun, but now the effect almost never went off.
We should have asked for a 99% chance for mag 1.001. That would have stunned minions. For all I know, way back then Geko might have even fallen for it.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
A couple of general comments:
1. DR affects scale. Every power effect has a magnitude and a duration (possibly zero). One, and only one of them, can be enhanceable. If its magnitude, its defined to be a Magnitude effect and the Scale of the power equals its magnitude. Damage is like this. If its duration, its defined to be a Duration effect, and its Scale equals its duration (and a different field in the effect definition specifies its magnitude). Most holds are like this. If you can slot the mez effect, and the duration goes up, then that effect is a Duration effect. Since PvP DR *only* affects the Scale of the power, it can only affect the Duration of this effect. It cannot affect the magnitude. A mez effect that is a Duration effect with mag 3 can have its duration increased or decreased, but its magnitude is fixed. Nothing, not the purple patch, not PvPDR, not any resistance in the game, can alter the magnitude of that effect. Its absolutely immutable. 2. Mag 1 mez effects don't affect anyone on their own. Pretty much everything out there has a default -1.0 base value to all their status flags. Mez status attributes are sometimes called Boolean attributes. That's because they are evaluated as a true/false: if Flag > 0 then True, Else False. Note: greater than zero. Not not negative. When you increase the base magnitude of a mez attribute from -1.0 to zero, the target is still not mezzed. *Anything* higher and they would be. A Mag 1.01 hold would work. 0.01 is greater than zero. But 1.0 doesn't work. It can only stack on other mez. That's why mag 1 mezzes don't seem to do anything. They shouldn't with anyone with the normal -1.0 base mez attribute without mez protection. Long ago, Thunder Kick in the Martial Arts set had a 100% mag 1 hold. The players complained that mag 1 didn't stun anything. So the devs changed it to a 10% mag 2. Now it had enough magnitude to stun, but now the effect almost never went off. We should have asked for a 99% chance for mag 1.001. That would have stunned minions. For all I know, way back then Geko might have even fallen for it. |
Funny, I was just about to post on this find. Thanks to @Dexterity to pointing this out in his own test for it.
It seems like even with DR -off- it didn't work, which is led me to believe that it needs to be slightly more than Magnitude 1. Testing Telekinesis (1.5 DRed to 1.1 and working) provided more evidence for this.
I wanted to share these 2 screenshots, where Combat attributes is showing the Magnitude being DRed. I know Combat Attributes sometimes doesn't apply DR to totals, like damage/accuracy/recharge (as they're per power), but I've never seen it apply DR to things that aren't being DRed. Are we absolutely sure about it not being DRed? I can't test this right now, unless I get a hold with a magnitude -above- 1 that's 'would' DRed -below- 1, with the test proving whether DR affects it or not.
If I can't test it at all, I'll take your word. I just like to be able to back up what I tell others later.
Here are the screenshots. The first one is being hit with a regular Domination Dominate.
http://i39.tinypic.com/v5vdao.jpg
The second is after the initial mez work off, and only the Domination part was left.
http://i44.tinypic.com/dyp2ps.jpg
So I was correct in that Domination is broken for doms. The problem isn't DR, the problem is that the magnitude has to be more than 1, not -at- 1. This is good progress.
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
Quote:
Actually, after thinking about it more carefully, I have to retract one of my two statements. Since DR affects Curs directly, they can indirectly affect the hold magnitude of a hold without actually affecting the actual magnitude of the power.|
Originally Posted by Sentry4
Are we absolutely sure about it not being DRed? I can't test this right now, unless I get a hold with a magnitude -above- 1 that's 'would' DRed -below- 1, with the test proving whether DR affects it or not.
|
Its not that the hold is being reduced from mag 1 to mag 0.84. Rather, its the net hold Cur magnitude being applied to the character that is being reduced from mag +1.0 to +0.83.
I believe therefore as I understand DR to work, to mez a player in PvP the Cur magnitude of the mez must be at least magnitude 1.249 for DR to reduce that to a value still greater than 1.0. 1.27 to be safe from round-off error.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
I've edited the Solutions at the top incase a dev reads this to reflect these confirmations.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Actually, after thinking about it more carefully, I have to retract one of my two statements. Since DR affects Curs directly, they can indirectly affect the hold magnitude of a hold without actually affecting the actual magnitude of the power.
Its not that the hold is being reduced from mag 1 to mag 0.84. Rather, its the net hold Cur magnitude being applied to the character that is being reduced from mag +1.0 to +0.83. I believe therefore as I understand DR to work, to mez a player in PvP the Cur magnitude of the mez must be at least magnitude 1.249 for DR to reduce that to a value still greater than 1.0. 1.27 to be safe from round-off error. |
It may help if you were to confirm either solution as something that 'could' be changed and if it were to really fix the problem. If neither would, a suggestion as to what would fix it would help too. The more backup from known number crunchers, the more attention this problem will get, and the more confident the devs will be in changing it.
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
Quote:
My instinct is to say set PvPDR Alpha and Beta to 1.0 and 0.0 for CUR for all boolean hard mez. In other words, turn off DR for mez magnitude. I don't think that has any bad or unwanted side effects.|
Originally Posted by Sentry4
I've edited the Solutions at the top incase a dev reads this to reflect these confirmations.
It may help if you were to confirm either solution as something that 'could' be changed and if it were to really fix the problem. If neither would, a suggestion as to what would fix it would help too. The more backup from known number crunchers, the more attention this problem will get, and the more confident the devs will be in changing it. |
As to the 1.0 vs 1.00000001 thing, it occurs to me that the best way to solve that might be instead of searching for and changing lots of mez powers all over the place, simply set the base for player and critter confuse, terrorize, hold, immobilize, stun, and sleep from 1.000 to 0.999. That way, everyone and everything becomes vulnerable to a mag 1.0 mez effect, at least as I understand how the mez effects work. If that is what the devs intended.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
That second change seems like a big one, as it would affect PvE as well as PvP. If the case was that the devs did not want to toy with PvE (Mag 1 mez may exist in critters), than only making it activate like that in PvP could be the best option. All mez in PvP is supposed to work regardless of Magnitude either way.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
My instinct is to say set PvPDR Alpha and Beta to 1.0 and 0.0 for CUR for all boolean hard mez. In other words, turn off DR for mez magnitude. I don't think that has any bad or unwanted side effects.
As to the 1.0 vs 1.00000001 thing, it occurs to me that the best way to solve that might be instead of searching for and changing lots of mez powers all over the place, simply set the base for player and critter confuse, terrorize, hold, immobilize, stun, and sleep from 1.000 to 0.999. That way, everyone and everything becomes vulnerable to a mag 1.0 mez effect, at least as I understand how the mez effects work. If that is what the devs intended. |
At the same time, it wouldn't be changing too many mez powers to be over 1 magnitude. As far as I can tell, only the Domination portions of Dominator Mezzes seem to work that way. Could be as easy as rewriting 1 Mag --> 1.1 Mag for a handful of Dom powers, assuming they get rid of DR for magnitude.
I think I'll try to get some GMs to look at this thread now. There's a lot of options on how to fix what has been broken.
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
Quote:
Technically, it's very mutable. Each effect has 4 independent flags on it that determine if magnitude or duration is affected by resistance, and/or by combat mods (purple patch). These are usually set to mirror whether it's a Magnitude or a Duration scaled effect, but not always. They can even bet set together so that a power is affected by both, and the purple patch reduces both magnitude AND duration. Dimension shift was like that for a long time, but nobody noticed because, well, it's dimension shift.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Nothing, not the purple patch, not PvPDR, not any resistance in the game, can alter the magnitude of that effect. Its absolutely immutable.
|
Now when it comes to PvPDR... I'll be the first to say I have no clue how that works. There aren't any flags for it that I know of so it probably works like you said.
Quote:
I'm not sure what "Very very small" means exactly? Do you mean less than one second.|
Originally Posted by Sentry4
To MrLiberty, in that test, I'm absolutely sure that both in Domination and out of Domination, both would hold for very very small times (CM can be stacked to around 15% mez duration). I'd bet my reputation on it, but I'm willing to test it with a couple friends. |
Because I can say with 100% certainty when we (myself included) tested the mez times on Stalagmites with earth doms, against mez resistance capped targets the difference was significant with domination vs. without.
This was in the arena, no TS / no heal decay, but DR left on.
Outside of tests I've seen it countless times in the arena in action. Its the difference between breaking out of a mez before you hit the ground and stumbling around for 4 to 5+ seconds when you see that "Domination" hit above your head.
All math aside, my experience is consistent with Lib's. As it stands, CM and similar buffs (to a lesser degree then CM, usually) have a very noticeable effect when it comes to mitigating mez's.
Domination seems to greatly reduce that difference. This is probably foreign to those who haven't played as an Emp or played with an Emp who actually uses CM, but the difference is certainly there.
If you aren't dealing with outside status resistance buffs, then I can see where the difference from Domination might be less noticeable, but then again, Doms don't really need the help from Domination to be effective anyways in post 13 PvP.
Like I said, I don't know the math behind it, so I can't say if it's WAI or if the math is wrong, or whichever it may be, but my hands on experience definitely points to Domination having a noticeable effect in some situations.
Even if it's not WAI, I don't support fixing it. Dom's don't need the extra mez duration from Domination, if they had it, they would likely be incredibly overpowered. It's fine as it is, broken or not.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
Quote:
It's worth noting...|
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
I'm not sure what "Very very small" means exactly? Do you mean less than one second.
Because I can say with 100% certainty when we (myself included) tested the mez times on Stalagmites with earth doms, against mez resistance capped targets the difference was significant with domination vs. without. This was in the arena, no TS / no heal decay, but DR left on. Outside of tests I've seen it countless times in the arena in action. Its the difference between breaking out of a mez before you hit the ground and stumbling around for 4 to 5+ seconds when you see that "Domination" hit above your head. |
http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...ol.Stalagmites
That Domination Stalagmites doesn't even have 'unresisted' as a flag on it. That means even if they increased the Mag to a number that would work, it wouldn't increase the duration at all. I really -really- think it's just a preception thing.
I will test this today though, with an emp and a dom. I'll stack as many CMs I can, and see if Domination Dominate really lasts longer in domination than out.
Base on the numbers, the hold should last less than 1 second, then looking at my combat attributes I should see the Mag 0.8 hold on me for anywhere from 5-6 seconds (as it's unresisted), but not be held. I'll take plenty of screenshots for each second to show how long it lasts.
I'll post later today about how it goes
EDIT: To clarify, Stalagmites in and out of Domination has always had the exact same duration (Since i13). Not only because the Domination portion isn't working correctly, but Stalagmites doesn't have an "unresisted" flag that would allow it to cut through CM stacking.
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
I think you missed what I said, domination *does not* boost the duration of the hold.
If you take a naked target with no toggles or IO's and hit them with a dominated hold vs. one without they will last the same.
Dominations only effect is making the mez cut through mez resistance. The duration doesn't increase. 
If say a hold were to last for 5 seconds before mez resistance is factored in, but lasts only 2 seconds between status protection and what not, while in domination the hold would last 5 seconds. Not an increase in duration, but an increase in the time spent held over a target with mez resistance.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
I think you missed what I said, domination *does not* boost the duration of the hold.
If you take a naked target with no toggles or IO's and hit them with a dominated hold vs. one without they will last the same. Dominations only effect is making the mez cut through mez resistance. The duration doesn't increase. If say a hold were to last for 5 seconds before mez resistance is factored in, but lasts only 2 seconds between status protection and what not, while in domination the hold would last 5 seconds. Not an increase in duration, but an increase in the time spent held over a target with mez resistance. |
My apologies. If I stated it increased the duration, it was only under the assumption that most PvPers have resistance to holds from one source or another. The realistic effect would be holds lasting longer, even though their duration wasn't increased, only the resistance to them was lost.
Similar to comparing -resistance with +dmg, both makes orange numbers increase. Domination holds should work as ignoring resistance all together.
That last paragraph is what -should- happen, but this entire thread proves it does not. Specifically, I did the test you and Katalyst mentioned. Here are the results.
First Screenshots = CM stacked on me, No Domination, Dominate from Mind Control. It lasts roughly 1 second.
http://i42.tinypic.com/25a6iao.jpg = Dominator just used Dominate. I'm held (As seen under my HP). The timer is 9:00. I have a ton of Clear minds on me.
http://i43.tinypic.com/2s7teoh.jpg = Time is 8:59. I'm still held.
http://i43.tinypic.com/2087gqp.jpg = Time is 8:58. No longer held.
Here we see that Dominate only lasted for about 1 second.
Second Screenshots = CM stacked on me, Domination, Dominate from Mind control. Lasts roughly 1 second again.
http://i41.tinypic.com/23mswhg.jpg = Dominator used Frenzy, then Domination. I'm held. Timer is 6:58. I have a ton of Clear minds on me. Note the Domination text above my head.
http://i42.tinypic.com/f0vtqu.jpg = Time is 6:57. Still held.
http://i41.tinypic.com/zx8xop.jpg = Time is 6:56. NOT HELD. The Domination porton of the hold exists, but isn't enough to hold me on it's own.
http://i43.tinypic.com/2v3255l.jpg = Time is 6:55. NOT HELD. More proof that the Domination portion, that ignores resistance, is there but not doing anything since it's not greater than 1 Mag.
This is simply proof that Domination does not boost holds. Dominate has a 4 second BASE duration as a hold, if it were to ignore resistance in Domination as it should, it should at least hold for 4 seconds.
I highly doubt that someone fiddled with PvP numbers in the past 3 years to make Dom holds broken.
I really want to quote this...
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
If say a hold were to last for 5 seconds before mez resistance is factored in, but lasts only 2 seconds between status protection and what not, while in domination the hold would last 5 seconds. Not an increase in duration, but an increase in the time spent held over a target with mez resistance.
|
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
You sir are 100% correct. I'll admit its been at this point maybe a year, year and a half, possibly even two since I (and others sat down with online stop watches and tested it a dozen or so times, things like Dom vs. w/o Power boost vs. no powerboost, etc etc) I'm not sure if it has always been broken as I've been digging through old screen shots to try and find them. (I managed to find stalker AS damage charts, that's about it. :/ ) *edit*
I took my earth/fire into the arena and did have a dozen trials with dominated stalagmites vs. stalagmites with no domination and it was near down to the second, the two of them lasting for the same duration. With something like 15 CM's stacked both broke near instantly in the time it would take to alt tab over to the other account running.
Sorry about having you post all that stuff up.
Quote:
Sadly! Something changed or was broken in a stealth patch. The mez times are indeed the same. I had an emp keeping mez resistance up high enough to where stalagmites would last 15% of its duration, and with domination up, it near broke instantly.
|
Originally Posted by The Katalyst
All math aside, my experience is consistent with Lib's. As it stands, CM and similar buffs (to a lesser degree then CM, usually) have a very noticeable effect when it comes to mitigating mez's.
|
Quote:
Yeah it sounds like this must have broken recently. I have a bad memory, but not that bad. Never did actual tests but it was definitely noticeable before. Good catch, then.
|
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
Sadly! Something changed or was broken in a stealth patch. The mez times are indeed the same. I had an emp keeping mez resistance up high enough to where stalagmites would last 15% of its duration, and with domination up, it near broke instantly.
|
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
It looks like it's been broken for over 3 years.
Here is a post by Castle. 10-14-2008
"* For Dominators: Change normal control Duration base to 4 seconds for Stun, Sleep, Hold, Immobilize, Terrorize, Confuse, Untouchable, Intangible attributes. Duration of Status Effects (Hold, Sleep, etc.) no longer scale by level; instead they have fixed base durations. Change Domination control Duration base to 4 seconds for Stun, Sleep, Hold, Immobilize, Terrorize, Confuse, Untouchable, Intangible attribs. Duration of Status Effects (Hold, Sleep, etc.) no longer scale by level; instead they have fixed base durations. Change Magnitude bonus from +3 to +1."
Specifically the last point. "Change Domination control.....Change Magnitude bonus from +3 to +1."
http://coh103.gtm.cityofheroes.com/s...d.php?t=125865
Doesn't look like it was a stealth patch. Looks like Castle broke it and didn't realize it, since he annouced the change himself.
I'm posting a link to this thread in the bug forums now.
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
-_- Man you PVPers are always complaining about something back in the old days a Domination was a Deadly foe in PVP and outside of PVP as well.
Never play another NcSoft game, If you feel pride for our game, then it as well, I Superratz am Proud of all of you Coh people, Love, Friendship will last for a lifetime.
Global:@Greenflame Ratz
Main Toons:Super Ratz, Burning B Radical, Green Flame Avenger, Tunnel Ratz, Alex Magnus
Whats the point ? Havent the devs have made it quite clear that they dont give a rats *** about PvP?
Quote:
They've recently been fixing bugs in PvP.|
Originally Posted by 2xH3lix
Whats the point ? Havent the devs have made it quite clear that they dont give a rats *** about PvP?
|
CS just got nerfed
The mez with higher durations were standardized
A couple other small things
Besides that, I have a long list of exploits I've slowly been handing over to them.
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
and it has been since issue 13.
While this may be better fit for the bug forums, I feel the PvP community should know this right away. The tests I've been doing have just uncovered that Domination does -nothing- to increase your hold times. This would explain the confusion others have had regarding how much longer holds last with Domination.
The answer is that it doesn't increase mez durations at all.
The problem is that Magnitude is DRed (Diminishing Returns), and a magnitude of less than 1 doesn't affect targets. I don't believe this is common knowledge among the playerbase or the devs as no mez I'm aware of has less than 1 under any circumstances, except with, of course, PvP.
Let's look at Char from Fire Control on Doms. Here is the link to RedTomax.
http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...e_Control.Char
In Domination, stated as "If source.kStealth > 0.5", it applies
4s Held (mag 1)
With 3 tags.
1. Floating text "DOMINATION"
2. Unresisted
3. Mez Suppression
The normal "4s Held (mag 4)" a player gets out of Domination is resisted, and therefore lasts roughly half the time of the unresisted hold, as melee players have around 50% mez resistance and squishies with acrobatics (aka, all of them), have 50% resistance to mez as well.
The problem is that the "mag 1" of the Domination version is DRed to 0.8 mag, which by itself does not hold the target.
While it's true that the magnitude of the hold goes from "Mag 4" to "Mag 5" while in Domination for the duration of the first hold, it's worth noting that after achieving a Magnitude of 1 or greater -after- DR, any addtionally magnitude is worthless.
While many PvPers already know this, the difference between a Magnitude 4 and a Magnitude 5 hold is -nothing-, as Hold Protection doesn't exist in PvP, only resistance. This means Magnitude means nothing outside of reaching 1 (after DR).
Castle knew that Magnitude 4 and Magnitude 5 were the exact same. That's why he made the Domination hold -unresisted-. In this way, he believed he was making Dominator holds unresisted while in Domination. Whether or not that should be done is another note by itself, but with what is before us we can conclude that Domination has been broken for years and is not working as intended.
The Evidence (There is more down below in other posts, it's been confirmed multiple times):
What led me to believe this originally was the existance of the new confuse from Dark Control.
Possess is broken in that the Domination part of the confuse ignores suppression. As seen here, it is missing the tag "Suppressed when confused for 15 seconds". The same tag every other confuse in the game has.
http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...ontrol.Possess <-- Domination portion lacks Suppression
http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...ontrol.Confuse <-- Has the mez timer tag as every confuse should
This means, in theory, someone should be able to spam it and obtain perma confuse. The problem is that it's only Magnitude 1. When I tested this, it took -2- stacks of Possess to keep an individual perma confused. This is because the Magnitude 1 was DRed to 0.8 and did not affect the individual. These results were the first to lead me to believe that Domination holds didn't do anything.
Next, I went into the arena with a friend.
She used Dominate, I was held for roughly 3 seconds. No Domination.
Second, she used Domination, then Dominate. I was held for, again, roughly 3 seconds. The difference was, that for 3 secounds -after- that hold, I had 1 Magnitude hold on me that was being DRed to 0.8 and it was not holding me. This was all viewed in Combat Attributes.
This is good news, as the problem could be much worse. It means that Castle was correct in that the Domination hold is not suppressed by the non-Domination hold, but it also means that Domination doesn't do anything since it's only Magnitude 1.
Solutions:
There are 2 solutions to this problem.
1. Turn off DR for Magnitude. (EDITED: Mag 1 is not enough on it's own. Make it greater than 1 and -then- make it unaffected by DR)
As I've discussed earlier, the magnitude of a control does not impact it's performance on players because the lack of Protection in PvP. The only holds impacted would be those with a Magnitude 1 that are being DRed to below 1, to an ineffective level. Castle, as well as any other Devs, intended for these magnitude 1 holds to be effective. Those who changed holds in Issue 13 purposely made the Domination part of holds -unresisted- in order to make Domination worth something. Unforunately, there wasn't enough testing done, and the complex mechanics of DR hasn't allowed players to test it.
This solution is definitely possible, as things such as +HP and +Range already ignore DR. If anything, DR on Magnitude was an oversight that's taking away the best ability of a Dominator's inherent.
2. Increase the Magnitude of all Domination holds to 1.5 Magnitude. (EDIT: Arcana mentioned how anything above Mag 1.27 would work if DR still affected it)
This may be a simplier solution. 1.5 Magnitude is DRed to be above 1, therefore all the Doms holds would be effective once again.
Last Part: This part is important for you PvPers to read.
Do we want this fixed? Feel free to discuss this down below. I only present the numbers and the bug, but if I were to recieve enough negative feedback, that they should -not- fix this because Doms would be overpowered, I am willing to delete this thread.
Should we even bring attention to this? Would this make PvP better or worse?
I've actually been discussing some PvP bugs with some high level GMs lately, so it's likely that we could get this fixed, especially if we're to bug it ingame.
So there you are. Domination has been broken for over 3 years now. Although some of you may have noticed this in regular PvP, this explains why, which is what is necessary to convince devs to fix it.
EDIT: As discussed below, it seems Magnitude needs to be higher than 1 to affect the target. Even if DR didn't affect the Domination part of the holds, they would still not work. There are 2 things limiting their effectiveness. 1. DR 2. Only mag 1
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.