Sentry4

You heard it here first; Neuronia is running a Lethal Lottery.

Sign me up.

Maybe not nowadays, but don't forget about the great issue 13.

The issue that made over 90% of PvPers leave the game, destroyed every big organized event. The one that had Devs lying about their support on the subject, the one that had mods deleting more than -half- of the posts on the subject. The one that failed horribly but was considered a success? The one full of deceit and egos, inexperience and ignorance.

We have quotes saying they would keep investing time into it, we have quotes from them trying to justify the changes and we even have some quotes of people inside finally admitting it was a bad idea.

It's not much better than what you listed in the OP, just on a smaller scale.

I wish I could find the quote I'm looking for, but Macskull defined it perfectly by stating that COH PvP, a lot of players favourite part of their favourite game by far, was taken away from them, beat up, changed forever and thrown back saying "Here, you'll love this".

What part of the game do you love the most? Now imagine I've never done it before, but I walk in and decide how it should be done. Let's say I think badges should be purchasable from the market, or change old content to require teams with the new model, or let's just say that I hide all of the COH numbers from the min/maxers (or like DR, which is only understood by 1-2 PvErs)



Then again, maybe they made so many bad moves that they've learned from it. Castle's gone at least.

I honestly wouldn't wish what happened to PvP i13 on any part of the game.

It's by far the darkest history this game has. 4 years later I'm still digging through the ruins of all of it to learn exactly what happened, because there's an enormous amount of rage/hate/dissatisfaction about the subject. On these forums and others.

Uhhhhh, I just got smashed in Siren's Call early today on my old SOed blaster.

So, I spent 3 billion on level 30-33 IOs/recipes for a couple toons to make up for it.

If it doesn't include a zero in the price, that's mine, I'm too lazy to reach over and hit it, so I use 1/2/3 instead. The only time I use a zero is in a bidding war so the other guy doesn't know if it's me or not anymore.

I actually need to go buy a couple more right now to finish my characters.

Hopefully all my money is going to the right people! Thanks for the IOs, I'll be sure to kill everyone using them.

Well,

Nobody should bother taking Clarion with support (2 clear mind on everyone is better), nobody should bother taking ageless because end drain barely exists in leagues (things die too quickly -and- it's 100% nullified with 1 Stormie using O2 Boost), and barrier is DRed to nothing on squishies.


The only real choice is between Incan and Rebirth. Incan gives everyone +heal while rebirth only benefits you.

You'll get teams with 5 incans, using greens for 1000+. That's why it was suggested that Incans be limited.

5 Incans makes everyone's small greens into equal to 2x Large greens. If a team skips Incan, it's 20 small greens vs 40 large greens. Regardless of end drain or anything else, the 40 large greens will win. In fact, you'll find that there will rarely be kills amongst the best players, because you'd have to time a spike perfectly to get through 2-3 1k heals in an instant.

I understand the want for a lot of diversity, and although there's potential for it, this is also a competition. If the event was specifically for unique teams and ideas, to see which was fun and worked, then you'd get things like that.

In a competition, you'll get people doing what they know works for sure, and what has been the most efficient in the past.

Wasn't the last winning league 7 Earth/Fire Doms 1 Emp? If it weren't alpha only, you can expect they'd have 8 Incans, 8 Reactive interfaces, 8 Pyronics.


I would really -really- hope Incan is limited, because as I said earlier, I know for sure I would exploit that. 5 Incans turning poison's heal into 2k and small greens into 1k means the gap between those who bring it and those who don't is wider than if it were 1 Incan per team.

1 Incan with 4 Rebirths won't be nearly as bad. It'll also allow players to try Clarion or Barrier or Ageless (If they'd want to try).

Not to mention, an emp running around, untraveled suppressed, healing for 2k every 4 seconds is a little hard to kill.

That's a typo, it should actually read...

since Fossilize's duration has always been 4 seconds.

Stalagmites isn't actually broken. It once was 5.96 seconds, but it was normalized to 4 seconds.

Since it's fixed, I don't see any reason to ban it.

Since Domination doesn't give doms their unresisted holds (as it was supposed to be), stacking even a couple CMs on a target would reduce a fully slotted stalagmites to somewhere around a 3 second stun nowadays, and that's hardly a threat.

It forces people to run emps or pains, which I'm all for. I'd like people to get used to having support, so they learn to run to the healer rather than the base.

Well, if I'm not to hesitate.

The dark holds are not working as intended. I've talked to synapse about them. He's aware of the problem.

All of the hold and stun durations were recently normalized.

Stalagmites was 5.96 --> now 4 seconds
Mind AoE hold was 7.45 --> now 4 seconds



Now remember, Stalagmites has been banned in every league thus so far, and that was for a 5.96 base duration stun.

Now we're talking about a 7.45 base duration hold, with controllers having access to a more powerful Power boost. (Dom: 98.34% +special --> Troller: 122.925% +special).

Telekinesis only lasts for around 10 seconds, where as this could last for around 12+ seconds with power boost.

I've actually had to ban the dark holds from my 8v8 matches, since the team with the dark controller wasn't getting any actual practice spiking. Damage spam + 10 seconds is good enough.


I pretty much agree with every other point. I hope people use kins again, and maybe Gale will allow stalkers an easier hit.

Although I will warn you, that if the ATO proc for VEATS isn't fixed, it will become the spike caller for every decent team. If you haven't experienced it, it's very similar to what the control hybrid was like (if spammed).

Here are some other powers to ban

1. Dark hold from controllers, 7.45s base hold
http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...rol.Dark_Grasp

2. Dark hold from dominators, 5.96s base hold
http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...rol.Dark_Grasp

3. Melee hybrid provides status protection instead of resistance (Can't be Mezed)
http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...Melee_Genome_8

4. Controller Gale stacks KB higher than Force Bolt (Has been banned in the past)
http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...Summoning.Gale

5. Archanos ATO 100% chance for fear ignores suppression (Perma Fear)
http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...on_of_Arachnos

6. Electric Hold from Dominators (Ignores suppression) - I have a toon I could abuse this terribly with, so I suggest banning it. Holds can get up to 20 seconds with Power boost.
http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...rol.Tesla_Cage

7. Controller O2 boost gives stun/sleep protection. Would mean stalagmites wouldn't affect people with O2 boost (nor any stun).
http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...oning.O2_Boost

8. Control Hybrid, this wasn't 100% fixed. The other side of the tree mixed with certain combinations still brings perma holds/stuns etc.
http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...ore_Embodiment

&

http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...ontrol_Boost_4



I'd ban Hybrid all together. It's too new, not everyone has it, not everyone has it on all their toons. The chance for damage uses the PPM system that the devs have even admitted is too powerful and getting fixed in the next few issues. Your call though, I haven't seen it in practice in a 5v5 league.

I'd ban Incan all together, even 1 Incan makes small greens into medium ones (essentially). The healers can heal past our hit point caps already, Incan just makes greens more and the healer able to heal themselves more. If you limit it, you'll find someone misclick it in phase (only Incaning themselves), or dying just as they use and the team is without Incan for 2 minutes (big deal). This happened at our event last night, although another member used their Incan to make it fair.


I'd join if someone invites me to their team, but this isn't exactly my server and most of my regular team is MIA. So unless someone picks me up, I most likely won't be attending.

Here's an older thread of mine, based off of Murdok's Spine/SR.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=267662

Here is his original thread.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=256867

Here's a NW perma elude he posted as well

|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1447;689;1378;HEX;|
|78DA65946D53125114C7EFC212F10C81A2F2A4A08220ABA84 D65D3348E596381425|
|036BDA11576E4262ECC8299EFFA164D4D4FD64CDF2EEB0334 8387736E84B203FCEE|
|FEEFDD73FEE7EEB914DE3E7032F6EE3E93029B4DB5D3A96E1 86AADA1B73AD53D5E6|
|F9D5877D4EEB1A1369995319640A95A3154AE73FD40D9E107 8D6EF5B218AC68EAD1|
|49CB3854842E6E7DDB7A433334BDABFC1BD88BAD565329B73 5ADEEC26141ABF31AD|
|7351FDE6DEB6F7887EFF326EF9E7A50C96B6A5D333A0DDE1E DF6AF39AF27C6BA352|
|2DB78E9BD582DAE96AC6E904784CC3F7035444574F6639136 339665A246411B2425|
|8426CDA61A584CB253626F5A56C0071E61413AC67915EB1BE 64AF239CFB841AC2AD|
|217287882D8867A6781633C54BBA11693BC1815874113C88E F90CB224C5B6EA1B16|
|B37096B88EBAB8415C447586EA524B2F5074AEE6F08EF1922 F11531FB05F1103CD9|
|448DB6200C22CCBE62EECFC4E1CD3A688639325840042497B 0E29AC655893021829|
|88D1262884710DB2322786630C24F70E7131BE77B8D0E6E1C 128E10014E6822C61B|
|88C710C82F6AF2D38ECD883DA28DCBD2C6659D8827B07C4CE 41DCB62DE3C4841924|
|CC175806C661357B80D6B26C56393F47A62507048D80D51C1 612A384C0547A9E028|
|151C0D61B24FCEFE36D253910C56303D4F48125288990542B F3B92CC0DB962F4148|
|B517A0F487121C549DA059373A287E684F1F9ABA4B795BC84 CF602A254CA5EE61E2|
|85DB843B847544FA2E22776EEA17E1050719E1204381FE42A 98A6802E5192E5E2A1|
|24A84A714A18C2880E1651161992284E5C131840F5C2C3DA2 2C8F28B91165754459|
|1B51F223CAAE3C38D5BDA23C38C74CC2599B17CE2829BD5F6 05D120D21511FFDFE2|
|FC9123584971A629C3A618AFA628A1AE27C38420A23FC1996 DEE31695FCF02B1C95|
|ECF86F83E3BDA1F18BA1F1CBA1F1053BC8E302|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

That should give you a good idea of how to start on Perma Elude Builds.

They are honestly the most fun I've had in PvE.

Anyone have a mission like this already created? I'd like to try that.


After talking it over with some people, the ability to turn off squishy resistance doesn't seem like it would affect that much, since people will just run therms and sonics to get 75% resistance anyway.

Then the problem with that is the fact that therm/sonic shields don't give -any- psi res, meaning we're back to teams of just Psi/Ems.

If we turned off squishy resistance (as an option), we'd also need +psi res to +res buffs, and then we'd need unresisted resistance debuffs (As defenders used to have) to get their resistance down to a level where they can die.

If I understand it, the villain ladder wasn't as fun since they lacked the defenders unresisted debuffs, and the only way to get kills with 75% resistance was Stalker's AS + Scourge.

We don't want that. So along with squishy resistance off, we'd need +psi res and unresisted defender debuffs. That's more work than I originally thought.

Then we get back to the fact that, outside of changing the mez system, it's really not that hard to reverse the biggest i13 changes.

It makes me wonder why it hasn't been done already.

Z mentioned changes to PvP would be similar to opening Pandora's box, but the solution to PvP seems extremely simple. The above 3 changes should fix the majority of arena PvP.

Resistance is actually resisted by the DRed value, not the pre-DR value. Luckily meaning, resistance debuffs are resisted by about 35%-40% rather than always 75%.

That's what I found last time I tested it, but I don't seem to have the folder for it, so I'll retest it today and post the results in this thread.


Aside from that, I'm still curious if squishy +40% res is the only thing stopping DR matches. It wouldn't be too hard for the devs to implement. I'll ask the arena players on monday if they're there too.

I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned.

PvP is the single greatest challenge in the game, where it can require perfect reaction time, knowledge of every power and human psychology. It includes the most difficult math equations and the most practice. It includes keeping cool and not letting your ego be your weakness.

If someone is interested in something new and challenging, PvP is the answer for that. Plain and simple.



That being said, I'd have to agree with Nihilii. A lot of people "love" challenges, then quit at the first sign of danger.
We get a lot of players who like pushing themselves to the limit (Pylon testers) and apparently love challenges, die a couple times and quit PvP indefinitely.

I suppose I'm not like Werner, in the sense that he doesn't like dying.

I'm a good player in the harshest environment this game has to offer, and I, as well as every good player in PvP with me, can tell you that it's impossible to get where we are without dying and dying and dying some more until you figure it out.

It's not a challenge unless you've died for hours on end.



Lastly, if you want a challenge in PvE, fix critter AI. Melees have it extremely easy. Critters should scatter and use ranged/debuffing while kiting, now that would be a challenge.