It was run for a while at a 6 v 6 level thinking (I believe) that it would be like teams being double sonic'ed or double therm'ed as far as res buffs go. However with the lack of unresisted debuffs (Where the -res buffs are being resisted by 75% under the current system with no DR on) and the lack of unresisted damage outside of stalker AS it pretty much boiled down to getting a double AS that was clean so emps couldn't heal through it.
That has been years though and took place shortly after i13 launched. I don't know that its really been tried on a team level since then.
You answered your own questions.. its exactly why.. the inherent resistance... without it.. melee toons can actually 2 shot squishies.. stalkers can easily 1 shot with procs..
Just like the good old days!!
plus to top it off all melee toons.. plus pb if they were in the match would be hitting 60%-85%+ resistance most of the match.. so it would be hard to kill them.. now espiecially with incarnate powers..
so since most corrop, def, doms.. like their protection.. i dont think you will see any -DR matches like that..
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Iron Wind km/regen Iron Static elec/reg Psy Entity 50 psy/dev Iron-Assassin 50 nin/nin
You've got things backwards on how matches play out Alex. Squishes with 75% DR don't die to the low streaky damage of melee attacks. There are a few videos out there of Mez on a Fire/Elec dom fighting some super strength brutes with no DR on and his HP never goes below 80%.
Squishies gave up unresisted debuff and massive ranged damage for those resists. Melee didn't give up anything (In a lot of cases they gained more damage to their attacks as well as getting HD and TS to give them a fighting chance)
Check out 1:45 in the vid to see an SS brute trying to damage a dom with no DR.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpH_OUK7uMc
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Resistance is actually resisted by the DRed value, not the pre-DR value. Luckily meaning, resistance debuffs are resisted by about 35%-40% rather than always 75%.|
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
It was run for a while at a 6 v 6 level thinking (I believe) that it would be like teams being double sonic'ed or double therm'ed as far as res buffs go. However with the lack of unresisted debuffs (Where the -res buffs are being resisted by 75% under the current system with no DR on) and the lack of unresisted damage outside of stalker AS it pretty much boiled down to getting a double AS that was clean so emps couldn't heal through it.
That has been years though and took place shortly after i13 launched. I don't know that its really been tried on a team level since then. |
That's what I found last time I tested it, but I don't seem to have the folder for it, so I'll retest it today and post the results in this thread.
Aside from that, I'm still curious if squishy +40% res is the only thing stopping DR matches. It wouldn't be too hard for the devs to implement. I'll ask the arena players on monday if they're there too.
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
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I haven't looked into the numbers for reactive, but I'd imagine enough psy blasters could rip through a squishy in no time these days, especially if you add a debuffer. I think it'd be worth a try.
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That's the biggest thing, but many attacks do far more damage in PvP now than they used to (before factoring in DR and resistance shields giving +res to everything), which means targets would probably die even faster.
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Originally Posted by Sentry4
Aside from that, I'm still curious if squishy +40% res is the only thing stopping DR matches. It wouldn't be too hard for the devs to implement. I'll ask the arena players on monday if they're there too.
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@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Grab you an AE mission, set up loads of AV groups with nothing but confusion powers, and go wild.
Sadly that's the closest thing you'll get to old style pvp. Wish there was an option to turn all the new stuff off, honestly.
Quote:
Anyone have a mission like this already created? I'd like to try that.|
Originally Posted by eth_Nargy
Grab you an AE mission, set up loads of AV groups with nothing but confusion powers, and go wild.
Sadly that's the closest thing you'll get to old style pvp. Wish there was an option to turn all the new stuff off, honestly. |
After talking it over with some people, the ability to turn off squishy resistance doesn't seem like it would affect that much, since people will just run therms and sonics to get 75% resistance anyway.
Then the problem with that is the fact that therm/sonic shields don't give -any- psi res, meaning we're back to teams of just Psi/Ems.
If we turned off squishy resistance (as an option), we'd also need +psi res to +res buffs, and then we'd need unresisted resistance debuffs (As defenders used to have) to get their resistance down to a level where they can die.
If I understand it, the villain ladder wasn't as fun since they lacked the defenders unresisted debuffs, and the only way to get kills with 75% resistance was Stalker's AS + Scourge.
We don't want that. So along with squishy resistance off, we'd need +psi res and unresisted defender debuffs. That's more work than I originally thought.
Then we get back to the fact that, outside of changing the mez system, it's really not that hard to reverse the biggest i13 changes.
It makes me wonder why it hasn't been done already.
Z mentioned changes to PvP would be similar to opening Pandora's box, but the solution to PvP seems extremely simple. The above 3 changes should fix the majority of arena PvP.
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
Quote:
We burned our bridges with them when we relentlessly argued with Castle in the day, sometimes extremely vehemently and basically lost 90% of the ladders and players. In other words, the flame wars + lost subs + forum explosions didn't really help anything. Paragon Studios has washed its hands of us for the most part, though credit to Zwlllinger in joining a few leagues and providing some prizes.|
Originally Posted by Sentry4
Anyo
It makes me wonder why it hasn't been done already. Z mentioned changes to PvP would be similar to opening Pandora's box, but the solution to PvP seems extremely simple. The above 3 changes should fix the majority of arena PvP. |
Not to mention the Pandora's Box may be with PvErs that unsub if PvP gets any attention.
It was fun trying to get them to set things back in time, but at the moment they will fix bugs, misplaced decimals but they aren't allocating resources to PvP for the foreseeable future. Macskull tried to get stuff done forever and it was like wrestling the wind. WYSIWYG.
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It hasn't happened because they're not willing to invest any more significant time in PvP other than token bug fixes and maybe "adjusting" a power or two. The major PvP changes that have happened since I13 (selectable arena maps, no heal decay option, and I'm not counting Swiss Draw since that's never worked right) happened because a programmer had some spare time, not because it was something he/she was actually assigned to do. They say they don't want to touch PvP because it will mean continuous balancing to make it work (which is how PvP development works in almost every other MMO), yet they were willing to go ahead with development changes which most active PvPers hated, only to abandon those changes in a half-baked state. It's why I don't PvP in this game anymore, except trolling broadcast in RV, because that's more entertaining than actually trying to play the game.
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Originally Posted by Sentry4
It makes me wonder why it hasn't been done already.
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@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
I'd like to know why people never run these.
I'm assuming it's because of the inherent resistance making squishies have capped res to all.
Is that everything though? If that was somehow changed and we got the option to turn them off, would we all start having no DR matches? Incarnate would be a little powerful, so that could be banned.
Would that make it close enough to the old PvP, or would mez have to be reversed as well.
The real question here, is whether or not a "Turn off inherent resistance" option would benefit PvP at all or not. I'm curious if it would never be used, or if that's the only thing stopping us from getting a bit of taste for the old PvP (by turning DR off with it/no HD/no TS).
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.