ScionofSatan

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That's not the same to me. If I want to run a marathon I'm not going to run a half-marathon and claim I've run a marathon.


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And if I want to run a 5k, I'm not going to be very happy if a bunch of race coordinators tie me to the back of a truck and force me to run an extra 26 miles. Choice, man. It's about choice. You still have yours. Let us have ours.

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The fact remains they define what is broken, not the playerbase.

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Again they define improve. Not us.

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Sorry, but this overly simplistic generalization simply isn't true. There are variations of "broken", and different kinds of "improve"ments.

If the customers are dissatisfied, and the reasons make sense, then the marketing department, as well as the wise game designer, will realize that the game is, indeed, broken, even if it is "working as designed" (software engineers in the crowd will catch that joke).

Similarly, if the majority of the players believe a certain change would "improve" the game, and hence increase the likelihood of their continuing subscription, the marketing department (and the wise developer) will view it as an improvement, as well, unless it critically alters an aspect of the game of which the playerbase is currently unaware.

Example: A GM in a PnP game alters the levelling/xp gain process to make what he sees as an "improvement". In this matter, he has become a "game designer". But if his players HATE it, or find it to be "broken", he would be wise to "fix" it, or eliminate it entirely. Otherwise, his opinion will rule over an empty table.

Sorry, but that's the way it works.

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Out of curiosity, why is the original intent relevant?


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As a game designer myself I want the implementation of a game to match it's design.

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And script-writers/authors would like it if movies stayed true to their original vision as they wrote it, but it very seldom works out that way. Reason? Because test audiences don't like it. So they change it.

Example? In Blade, the original "La Magra" was meant to be an eight-story tall "blood monster", completely inhuman. Test audiences checked out the moment they could no longer relate to it as the villain they were invested in. Result? Script changed, ending re-filmed, vision corrupted, movie successful.

Sorry, but that's just how it works. And I, too, am a game designer and an author, albeit of absolutely no repute.

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Any time you use "most" in a situation with exploit, someone will turn it to "always abused".


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But part of what makes an exploit an exploit is repeatability. If we're talking mission complete XP here, how is that exploitable? Once you've finished the mission, you can't go back and do it again.


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Yes, it is repeatible. You set up the mission, *quit* from the team and select a different mission. The team is doing your mission, but you are no longer connected to it for completion purposes.

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I'm sorry, but this just strikes me as penny-wise and pound foolish.

A) You lose the mission bonus, easily worth as much as the glowies, often worth 5x as much.

B) You miss out on the xp AND salvage AND inspirations AND enhancement drops AND infamy/influence OR prestige gained from fighting the mobs, resulting in a levelled character without any infamy to spend on enhancements, resulting in a gimped character. Seems kinda crazy as a "powerlevelling" technique.

C) It's boring, and the xp gained/traveltime to each glowie in mission is far less than if you simply fought the first spawn, left the mission, reset it, and did it again.

All in all, seems like a pretty silly way to PL, and a REALLY silly reason for a nerf.

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I think this is one of those perceived problems (like all the people who swear they were always at the debt cap) that doesn't actually need "fixed." If anything, you're just removing content (which is a problem) to appease a small group of antisocial people who can't find a team.


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Funny. Since you seem to be the one in the "small group of people" who doesn't appreciate the change.

Your opinion is your opinion, of course, and you are welcome to it, but here is the problem with your logic:

If the majority of the people, as you seem to believe, are like you, and prefer to team, and make friends, and tackle AV's as a group, then this will not change that. Those people will still be online, and you will still be able to team with them. Meanwhile, those people who are, as you say, "antisocial", or who like the game to be "too easy", will be able to enjoy the game their way. No harm done.

On the other hand, if you're wrong, and there are LOTS of people (as the responses in this thread seem to indicate) who find the need to team up every third mission in the late game to clear their mission queues to be irritating and/or immersion breaking (as with me, I like being able to take on the antagonist solo, to the point that I have been known to level twice and drop my difficulty from highest to lowest just so I can solo the AV), then YOU are in the minority, and keeping the game the way YOU like it would be a disservice to the majority of the customers. Furthermore, since you and your friends team up constantly ANYWAY, you'll still be fighting the villain as an AV/Hero no matter whether this change goes live or not, so again, no harm done.

Therefore, the only reason I can see for insisting that it stay the same is a desire on your part to force others, who don't feel as you do, to play the way YOU want to.

Not a good reason, in my opinion. I think the devs have made a good move here.

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And to Scion.....My tanker is 100% Female, so you can keep those "balls" and give them to someone else who wants 'em.


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So you're saying your female tanker doesn't LIKE balls, huh? Sounds like you're playing an "alternative" type character.

However, if it makes you happy...

How bout we sew the breasts back on the inv/tankers now?

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Give me the doooooom posts anyday. These bootlicking marathons just make me ill.


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If I get called a fanboi for this, I'll probably have a heart attack from laughter, as several on this thread will understand.

Having said that:

1) Costumes are personal choice. There are villains who become heroes, heroes who become villains and mercenaries who stand on the razor's edge. Costumes like batman's, spawn's and many others are chosen for their ability to scare the crap out of villains, and some villains, like harlequin, joker, riddler, two-face, mxylplzyx (sp?), and many others are bright, happy things...mainly because their murderous natures are born of insanity.

Costumes SHOULD be as wide-open as possible. No restrictions. Heck, if I want to wear an arachnos uniform as a hero, and be a "traitor" to that villainous organization, I should be able to pursue that concept.

As to the "stealth nerf", I've been upset ever since the defense values took a hit after combat began. If you can't see me, you can't see me. If your perception isn't enough to pierce my invis BEFORE I attack, you're probably going to be too busy stopping the bleeding to notice any "tells" AFTER I attack. You can spray in my general direction, but my defense should be what it was before. Having said that, I am happy to see them rethinking the idea, and waiting until they've considered ALL the ramifications before they implement more. It's a different tack than most of the recent nerfs, and a move in the right direction, in my opinion.

And the AV-->EB implementation restores my faith in the devs desire to make this game friendly to those of us who aren't, by nature, extremely social creatures, who prefer to immerse ourselves in solo adventures and only team up when others "need" us.

Here's my advice: B.F. Skinner and hordes of behaviorists have shown that positive reinforcement has great effect in shaping behavior. Negative reinforcement is effective also. But neither will produce the desired result if you do not apply them at the appropriate times. In order to successfully shape behavior, you must apply negative reinforcement against actions of which you disapprove, and positive reinforcement when the subject BEGINS to take actions that will lead to the behavior you desire.

This is used to train dogs not to crap in the house, as well as to train killer whales to give rides around their pools without eating people. It might not be a bad idea to emulate that method here.

Good job, devs. Now let's get rid of travel suppression, sew the balls back onto the inv/ tankers, and soften the dual blows of I5/ED. We're all hoping for the best.

well, I have to say, "Thanks". I've taken your name in vain many times in the last year on these boards, not the least of which has been in the "making the game more solo-friendly" consolidated thread. Just the other day, I posted that it was a dead thread, that you didn't care about making the game more solo-friendly, and that every change in the last three issues proved it.

This is me, eating crow. Never been so happy to be proven wrong. No more team hunts to clear my mission screen, now I only team if I actually WANT to.

Thank you, sir. May I have another?

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Here's some feedback, YOU ARE A LIAR. I know you hate to be called that and would love to see how you tap dance around the massive enhacement changes as not a change to powersets. /em remembers a famous quote "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"


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Well.. "liar" is not the right word.

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Well, that depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is.

Yeah, I defeated a lvl 52 Chimera today, got 486 prestige for him...so if we round that up to 500, and figure, what, about 450,000 for a basic generator, circuit breaker and mainframe? (could be off, only just started base editing today, I know the generator was masively expensive...well, let's say 500k for everything beyond a basic, three-room base with power and control. That's, what, a thousand AV's?

Even if you ONLY fight AV's with 8-man SG teams, that's 4k per AV, that's still 125 AV's that need to be defeated to be able to get a BARELY functional SG base, with NO add-ons, even AFTER the 15-member, 20k kick-off bonus.

Not to MENTION that means that all those level-50 long-time players have to choose between running their villains and building their hero bases. (Waaaaa!!!)

Oh well. Let's see...75 lvl 50 heroes fighting lvl 52 AV's at 500pp per pop per person, that's 37,500pp per AV...that's only 26 or so AV's per person in a full SG of heroes to get a million prestige. IF you only do door missions in non-PvP zones.

Yeah, that's...ummm....

(tries to think of a positive way to put it)

that will definitely encourage people to take SG teams to door missions in PvP zones. A lot. And to stop trying to fund their alts with influence.

Or it will severely discourage PvP.

STILL waiting for a response on Superior Invis. It's not listed in the group to get the "buff". Are you seriously going to give Group Invis a buff, but not SUPERIOR invis? More to the point, you're going to give the POOL POWER Invis the buff, but not the primary Illusion power pool SUPERIOR invis the same buff? Hell, it should get a BETTER buff...

Anyway. Would like to know one way or the other, please. Please don't make me spam PM's at you for it.

Thanks.

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Tanker
Ice Armor
Frozen Armor: 5.2/27.2
Wet Ice: 5.2/27.2
Glacial Armor: 5.3/27.2

Stone Armor
Rock Armor: 5.2/27.2
Rooted: 5.2/27.2
Crystal Armor: 5.2/27.2
Granite Armor: 13/68


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As long as invuln/ tanks are going to be def-based instead of damres-based, might I suggest that tough skin and invincibility should offer similar resistance? As well as Unstoppable?

I'm just sayin'...

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I added the same to Controller/Illusion/Group Invisibility.


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Is there a reason why Group Invis is getting the bonus, but not Superior Invis? Or does Superior Invis already have this benefit, and I'm just not aware of it?

Not trying to be b**chy about it, just curious what the "in-game" explanation would be for why ONE illusion based invis WOULD give defense to smashing/lethal, while another WOULDN'T, particular if the one that doesn't give it is called "superior". Statesman? Red Name? Anybody? Buehler?

lol...we went in radically different directions. Just some quick examples.

I took TP Foe (If I can't taunt him to me, I'll just BRING him to me) and teleport (fits the evolution of the hero, good for quick movement in the age of suppression, and with less defense/damres, i might NEED a quick escape).

I six slotted EVERYTHING, and 7- and 8-slotted a couple, in my primary, using HO's. I went from being an attack machine to being a defense king.

And before you say it, yes, I KNOW I've breached the cap for S/L damage. But mobs can reduce defense and dam res, and I don't want to take chances with my team.

I DID take Tough Skin, and slotted the hell out of it.

All of my attacks are only 3-4 slotted now, although I DID respec hand clap and Energy Torrent in, since I respecced Hasten OUT.

I dumped a couple of powers from my Travel sets (CJ, SJ, Hasten, Superspeed), and here's what I'll say:

It takes me a lot longer to arrest the bad guys, but I'm still pretty badass in the defense department. Solo, it's a bit of a pain, but on a team, with a good damage dealer, using taunt, punchvoke, invinc, and tp foe, plus my Dull Pain with two Golgi's in it, I'm still doing alright.

I would, however, love to go on test with you sometime and compare these two builds. I sure miss Knockout punch and Foot stomp being six-slotted.

Ah well.

I upped the difficulty to invinc, and had taken out several spawns of orange and reds when I encountered a purple LT...I had just drawn back the finishing flame arrow (or the whiff that would be my butt) when "poof" down went the server...lol...TBC....

Not much xp yet, just lvl 8, but I seem to have departed radically in my power picks from everyone else.

Allow me to elaborate:

First, i'm archery/electric. Character concept. actually seems to work fairly well: electric fence keeps my targets out of range, and stacks for fairly quick rolling damage. Skipped Charged Brawl, or whatever it is, and sipped Snap shot.

So...I have Aimed, Fistful and Flaming Arrow, plus EF and LF from the secondary. Took swift from the fitness pool. And I have to say, I ROCK!!

Today, all by my lonesome, at level 7, I took out MULTIPLE large spawns in the hollows of even-con thru +1's (at least 10 per spawn.) Blue-cons? Puh-LEEZE...don't even waste my time. Flaming arrow one-shots them.

And that's basically how I play it...Flaming->Aimed->EF is my chain, and I hold lightning field and Fistfull in reserve in case a group of baddies gets a little too close (or WAY too close).

BTW, don't know how many of you have tried this, BUT....if you have a "hard target", like a Brick or some such at low levels, and you hit them with the following chain: EF->Flaming->EF, then run in and toggle LF just outside their melee range, then one more Flaming arrow, the damage numbers just FLY by. kick off an AIMED at them just for kicks when everything else is down, and you can take down BIG enemies even at low levels. I took out a pair of +3's (Volts) at lvl 6 with this guy, using the same basic tactics.

I run sprint when I'm in combat, and while it's an end sucker for now, it also allows me to maintain range when combined with EF from all but the largest groups of enemies.

Now, this is only my second blaster, and my first I only took to lvl 13 (AR/Dev), but I have a lvl 50 tank and a lvl 50 troller (inv/ss and ill/emp, if it matters), and I can honestly say, this blaster is every bit as powerful solo as they are, at least at this low level.

So, no, I don't think of him as underpowered at all, and I've been AMAZED at how fast attacks chain. My other characters could only DREAM of that kind of speed.

End is a little bit of a problem, but nothing compared to my tank, and the AR/Dev blaster was every bit as bad, if not worse.

Maybe it's the /ele secondary, I don't know, but if he were any more versatile, it'd be sick. Tomorrow, i'm upping his difficulty level to Invincible. We'll see how misisons go then.

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I'd just like to know why there are giant monster badges awarded on the "let's make heroes hate each other and refuse to cooperate" principle. Which developer was stupid enough to do that and has it been fired, yet?

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Thank you. I and a friend went to help out a team fighting Jurassik today. I died. 50k debt, instantly (lvl 44). What did I get? About 2500xp, 2500 off of debt. No badge.

Why should I respond to their broadcast call for help if that's going to be the payoff? Real heroic ideas, there, devs.

I mean, look: Presumably, badges represent an official recognition by Paragon city's elected representatives of significant service on the behalf of Paragon. When a giant monster threatens Paragon city, ANY hero who responds, does any damage to the monster, heals any hero fighting the monster, or puts life and limb at risk to defend the citizens of Paragon deserves a badge in recognition of that effort. Can you imagine the following taking place without a mass protest by the heroes' union?

"In other news, the mayor of Paragon said today that, while he 'feels the pain' of the many heroes hospitalized in today's pitched battle against the giant monster in Independance Port, they will not be receiving any official recognition from Paragon City for their efforts. Instead, he will be awarding Freedom Phalanx with yet another badge for defeating this threat to our fair city. Oh, and he made a point to remind all such heroes that the city will not be covering any debt accrued due to their hospitalization, and that all such heroes would be expected to 'pay their own way' back to health.'

Statesman said that he appreciated the attempts by 'lesser' heroes to help, but suggested that they really didn't deserve the badge as much as he did, and that they would agree with this if they were being honest with themselves. Shortly after this, Manticore was heard to say, 'GOD, he's SUCH an [expletive deleted]'.

This reporter can only agree."

My two influence:

ETC's have been great fun for my illusion controller (and I'm sure Cind Controllers have felt the same). I confuse the ETC after he's laid down his mudpots, and suddenly, I'm moving free and easy and my foes are slogged down. If it weren't for my pets offing the ETC and causing the mudpots to revert to form, I'd PRAY for ETC's in every mob spawn.

Multiple ETC's in a spawn just take a little longer to control. Plus, while their mudpots are making my life easier, they're kicking the Behemoths and guides up one side of the foyer and down the side hallway.

Oh well.

Thanks for bringing a note of moderation to what has become, as it always does, and extremely immoderate topic. Your tone gives me hope, but one thing you said made me sad:

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We're getting along much better, but we still tend to feel excluded from activities if none of our own people seem to be part of the action.

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I don't even have the heart to say why. If I put in in print, it would look as hokey as a Cap. America monologue. Or like I was trying to be MLK, Jr. and coming off as a cheap imitator. But it has to do with the phrase "our own people".

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heroes in comics dont exist to show us who we are. they exist to show us who we could be. who we -should- be. that its possible for the future to be better than the present.


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Excellent point. In that arena, I do agree, the new comic seems to fall woefully short. That's what I always loved most about Capt. America. I did really like the new comic from a story standpoint, and I found the characters far more engaging than the first series, but so far there's not much actual "heroism" being displayed.

But, maybe that will change. It is, after all, only issue #2. Perhaps they're setting a "low point" from which the heroes can re-ascend, with newfound humility and wisdom, to become more the heroic icons Paragon City needs. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

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Diversity-Nazi is such an oxymoron that I weep for the education of people. Seriously, read a book about the 'diversity' of the Nazis

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Weep, instead, for the overly-literal and unimaginative nature of "people". The point of the term "diversity-nazi" is to turn the accusatory mechanism which labels people as "intolerant" and "nazi-like" on the overly-sensitive, politically-correct, self-appointed "tolerance police", who seem to feel it is their mission in life to inject their perceptions of inherent, systemic racism/sexism/homophobia into every discussion, no matter how unnecessary or over-blown such an injection might be.

Furthermore, the crime of the Nazi regime wasn't that they believed that "Aryans" were superior to all others, unless you also believe in "thought police". Their crime was in the persecution of those who believed otherwise, and who weren't in conformity to that "ideal". Those who accuse people of racism, sexism, or homophobia because they don't actively pursue the agenda of "diversification" at every turn are, ironically, as intolerant and dictatorial as the very redneck neo-Nazi's they see under every Bush (pun intended). Hence, they become Stalinish/Maoist-type "purgers of dissent" instead of Nazi-like "purifiers of race", and so the term "Diversity Nazis" becomes appropeau , if not precisely accurate.

And the fact that I, the user of the term, have to explain this to you, makes me weep for "people's" education.

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Second, when somebody of an ethnic group feels left out, no amount of shouting them down is going to make them feel included.

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I'm not trying to "make them feel included". I'm trying to get across my frustration with the attitude that, if someone doesn't consciously balance every area of whatever activity they are undertaking so that it reflects the supposed ratio of every minority group in the country "accurately", whatever that means, someone is being persecuted or excluded. The fact that the first comic had an black character in Horus, or that Back Alley Brawler (a black man), Coyote (a native American) and Miss Liberty (a woman) are the first three heroes you meet in COH, is not enough for the poster, no, the NEW comic SHOWS that he is ignored and excluded, because IT doesn't prominently display HIS race. THAT pisses me off, and should piss off anyone who is more interested in moving PAST race than focusing ON it. At least, I think it should.

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We're not talking about Casablanca, or music groups, we're talking about the City of Heroes comic book so changing the subject shows you are either a bad debater or you know you can't defend the original accusation.


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Casablanca is a movie. Movies are forms of entertainment. Musical groups make music. Music is a form of entertainment. CoH is a game. Games are a form of entertainment. The CoH comic is literary fiction. Literary Fiction is a form of entertainment. See the parallel? Or do I need to go on so that you will see why this isn't "changing the subject"? And I don't need to defend the original accusation, because the original accusation was made on the part of the "diversity Nazis", who apparently want to use the comic for kindling because there aren't enough black people in it.

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Now, let's start a rant about how a feminist like me feels about Statesman absorbing the spirit of Zeus, a God most known for fathering children on willing and unwilling women.

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I thought he was "most known" for being the King of the Gods, living on Mt. Olympus, and hurling lightning bolts. His exploits with the ladies were strictly plot points in morality plays by Greek philosophers, which philandering, you will note, inevitably ended in tragedy. Of Greek proportions.

In other words, women were Zeus' kryptonite, and he was powerless before them. And if the most powerful of males could be brought down again and again by females, the rest of us men should be very, very careful of how we deal with them.

Probably why homosexuality was so prevalent in that society. Because the men figured that was better than dealing with women. If they had had to deal with "avowed feminists" as well, I don't doubt but that Greece would have disappeared from population implosion long before we ever heard of them.

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My main concern is that my worst fear has been realized. Similar to DC and Marvel, and with no offense intended to anyone, Top Cow basically removed any black character. So with Horus gone, no story arc with the Brawler, CoH comic is now just like the mainstream comics, devoid of anyone of African descent. So while playing the game is great in that it allows for diversity, the same cannot be said of the comic.

While it is free, I'll just be using it for fireplace fodder unless I see some changes...


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oh my god...

ok, first of all, the dude all made of antimatter is enclosed in a suit of armor to contain his anti-matter energy, so he certainly COULD be black. Or asian. Or native american. Or a woman, for that matter. Secondly, your judgement on whether or not a comic is any good depends entirely on whether it conforms to a specific racial ratio? Do you use the same criteria for musical groups? What if it was ALL african-Paragonians, would THAT be offensive, too? How about movies? Is Casablanca crap because the only black character is in a "servile" role to the two protagonists?

Give me a frigging break. Oh, and in case you haven't looked in, say, the last umpteen years, there are a pretty decent number of heroes in both DC and Marvel of non-white descent. Hey, maybe you should protest the lack of any aggressively homosexual characters, too.

AAARRRGHGHGHGHGHHHH!!! GOD I HATE DIVERSITY-NAZI's!!!

By the way, I very much like the new comic series. I won't even COMPARE it to the cheese-filled, forcedly-parallel, hideously-dialogued abortion that was the previous comic. The one that made me feel like all the old stereotypes about comic-readers being 12 were true.

Good job on the new 'zine, guys. Keep 'em comin'.

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New zone – Croatoa. Supposedly leaked photos indicate that it is a city zone with the third university (two are under construction on live right now). The level range is 25-35. According to a member of the forums who has supposedly seen it, the zone is HUGE. There is no definite information on this, so consider the above educated speculation. This zone will include new missions, contacts, TFs, etc. following the example set by Striga Isle.

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There is a vicious rumor going around that this zone has been pulled from I5...anybody confirm or deny this?

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well, problem is, if your team splits to hunt, its not so much that you get no xp's from the other half of the team, its the fact the xp is still be split for a team. lets say for arguments sake, 8 man team hunting in boomtown. they split into 2 4 man teams to hurry up a few defeat xx missions. now, while out of xp range of each other, their xp is still being split for an 8 man team, its just the other 4 guys xp is going to no one. in other words, each half of the team is taking a larger risk by splitting the team, but actually getting less of a reward.

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Yeah, I can see how that's messed up...guess it's better not to split the team, then...use the tanks to herd and slaughter 'em in one location?

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I like the suggestion that holds do 1 pt of damage. Or 0.01 pt. I don't care. As a scrapper and tank enthusiast, I like my targets still. The hold that stopped them is as valuable as my hit.


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As long as we're talking about holds, and non-damage powers, I have a question:

Can anyone explain to me why, as a controller, my control over the mind of another which causes him to kill his comrade gains me no xp? I mean, confuse is what I'm talking about in particular, but any mind-altering power which deludes your enemy into being your friend is EXACTLY what an illusion or mind controller SHOULD be doing. It's a slow enough process (confuse, wait for recharge, confuse again, wait for recharge...) as it is that it could hardly be said to be an "imbalance". Even if a controller were to do this EXCLUSIVELY, which I doubt many have the patience for, what's wrong with giving them exp for foes they have defeated in such a manner?

Personally, I would think that the more experience you have in controlling the minds of others, the more powerful you would become as a "controller" (i.e., you would level-up).

Seems like an awfully arbitrary decision, especially since it only affects AT's that are not very solo-friendly to begin with. I know my tanker was solo'ing on invinc by lvl 24, but my ill/emp controller is capped at tenacious, any higher and death is all but inevitable.

I know this thread isn't for this topic, States, but can i get an answer anyway? I've asked it before in another thread, no response.