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Quote:There is a good lesson in here. One trap that is very easy to fall into is building for global bonuses when you'd be better off aiming for straight up enhnacement value in the powers themselves. So you need to be mindful of how many slots you're devoting to set bonuses.In general, I'd make less effort to get +recharge; Willpower hardly benefits from it, and small a mounts of +rech won't make much difference in your attack chain unless you're going for a specific chain. So I'd consider replacing the Oblits in your PBAoEs with 3 Erads and 3 Cleaving Blows. If you pick which ones carefully, you can ED-cap damage and recharge that way, getting those attacks back faster than you would with Oblits, and you'll have more end reduction and the defense bonuses.
Acc enhancement will only be moderate, but it's easy to pick up global +acc (and I don't think your current Oblit slotting gives great +acc either). You could dump out the Gift of the Ancients set pieces in your defense toggles, for example, and 4-slot LOTGs with the exact same enhancements, and get the +9 global acc from each power.
Quote:Although I haven't made a Tanker with WP yet, they say you ought to have two slots of +taunt in RTTC if you really want keep aggro.
Quote:Quote:I don't have access to Mids to check the numbers, but I like your suggestions a lot. The only reason I built in the recharge bonuses was to have SOW up as often as possible since recharge is not enhanceable on it, but taking your suggestions will save me some inf, esp if I replace the LotG global recharges with def/end. As you pointed out, the kin combats are going to set me back a pretty penny. -
I'm at work and can't access any of my builds, but here is some feedback going from memory:
Quote:If you're trying to build up your defenses, I'd suggest using different sets. Willpower is a set with built-in typed defense, using sets that provide positional defense is not giving you the best bang for your buck. For example, I'd suggest Kinetic Combat for your single target melee attacks (worth +3.75% s/l def), and then using the last two slots for the Mako's triple / quad (that should be ~65% acc, 95% dmg, and ~80% rech/end). For AoEs, using 3/4 Erradication is worth 3.75% e/ne def. Guassian's, while it provides def to all three positions, costs a lot of slots. I'd suggest using 2 Rectified Reticals (no +Perception for the reasons others have stated) for a quick 1.88% def.Fast Healing- Full set of Numina's (Ranged Def)
Gash: Full set of Mako's Bite (Ranged Def)
Swoop: Full set of Mako's Bite (Ranged Def)
Cleave: Full set of mako's bite (Ranged Def)
Build Up: Full set of Gausians (All Positional)
Whirling Axe: Full set of oblits (Melee Def)
Pendulum: Full set of Oblits (Melee Def)
Don't skimp on RttC, it's a core part of your survivability. You should at least have 95% heal enhancement in this.
Quote:Quick Recovery: 3 slotted generic end mod IOs
Stamina: Full set Performence shifter (AoE Def)
Having said that, I think you're using way too many slots on these two powers. If it were me, the most I'd do is 2 End Mod + Perf Shifter in each and make sure my attacks have a healthy amount of end reduc in them.
Taunt is a great place to get set bonuses. I prefer 5-6 slots of Mocking Beratement for both s/l and f/c def.
Quote:Indom Will- 4 slotted: LotG Def, LotG global rech, GotA Def, GotA Def/end
Heightened Senses: 4 slotted: LotG Def, LotG global rech, GotA Def, GotA Def/end
Quote:High Pain Tolerance- 5 Slotted Aegis: res/end, res/rech, end/rech, res/end/rech, res
Mind Over Body- 5 slotted Aegis: res/end, res/rech, end/rech, res/end/rech, res
Actually, HPT might has a reasonable number of slots, but it would be wise to place some heal enhancement into it.
Willpower has built-in KB protection, so I'd drop the KB Protection from it.
As mentioned, this IO is redundant with Heightened Senses. -
Quote:I agree, caging is a nice gimmick, but probably won't make or break you by itself.Caging is meh - we've tried it several times, it doesn't seem to really work most of the time (at least recently, something might have been changed).
Usually just getting yellow and green is enough if you are doing Illusion tanking or a solid stone tank. We sometimes need to take down red since that is his resistance - if you have enough -resist debuffs on the team, that is also not really needed.
Also, if the Red Tower is up, res debuffs will not drop Recluse below 100% s/l/e res. Remember that res buffs resist res debuffs, so 100% res will reduce all res debuffs to 0. They will, however, still soften him up to the other 5 damage types (ne, f, c, p, t). -
Quote:Krogoth is correct. A single pulse from a tower lasts 15s. Cages, on the other hand, last 30s. That means the best you could do is to keep Recluse unbuffed half the time. Due to the strength of the Orange and Green Towers, I doubt you'd be able to defeat Recluse without destroying those two.Quote:Wow, what an interest concept...
It never occurred to me, one could affect a tower in such a manner. I must admit my awe at your concept.
Now taking the idea forth a bit, if we have 4 players that can do "affect self only" powers on the towers, technically that would bring Lord Recluse to normal, correct? And is so, then he could be defeated with out having to defeat the towers first, and that would be an awesome test!
I am so excited...
Sue
(The green tower causes Recluse to regen ~6.67% of his hp/sec, or go from 0 to full in 15s - conveniently the duration of the pulse. That's not counting the heal nor the +maxhp it provides.) -
Quote:Just keep in mind that, as important as taunt duration is, damage is a key component in threat generation - so don't skimp out on your damage dealing too much.Interesting discussion on taunt, thank you. I play this guy as a tanker, and I spam taunt. Even when running as the secondary tank i use taunt as my primary focus, and damage dealing secondary. Shaping the combat for a blaster or other AoE player is much better than trying to beat everything to death myself.
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Quote:What I was implying is that if you're properly using Taunt, the extra few seconds of taunt enhancement in RttC is moot. Here is why:To my mind that stacking of taunt aids threat. A couple of secs outside of the aura and mobs still easily forget.
Quote:Originally Posted by CastleTaunt is a threat multiplier. The ACT of taunting is what generates threat (it's considered an attack) and the value of that is multiplied by Taunt, AT Mod, AI type, range, mob preferences and several other factors to get the final version.
Quote:Originally Posted by CastleEach time something applies a combat attribute to an AI, it adds Threat. Each time it evaluates it's target, it chooses the entity with the largest Threat value. Different MOBs have different cycle times on how/when it evaluates targets.
Essentially, every time an NPC is effected by something, it recalculates threat. Now, Taunt and RttC would both fall under this category (taunt, debuffs, etc) even though neither deal damage. The kind of calculation that goes on when an NPC is effected is:
Quote:Originally Posted by CastleQuote:I would not be surprised if the full threat formula was something like the following:
Damage * ToHit Debuff * Defense Debuff * ToHit Buff * Defense Buff * Heal * Regen Debuff * Hold * Stun * Immobilize * Sleep * Knock Back * Threat Modifier * RemainingTauntDuration * AIPreference * RangeMod = Total Threat.
Notice that it's the RemainingTauntDuration, not TauntDurationApplied. So, to the best of my knowledge, RttC ticking on a mob with a 60s taunt effect is using the 60s taunt duration every tick, not the 1.25s (or less due to the Purple Patch). Same goes for taunt added via aoes, or Gauntlet, both of which will overpower RttC.
As for taunt MAG stacking:
Quote:Originally Posted by CastleMag from multiple taunt attribs will stack with one another (in exactly the same way holds do) but they will not stack their durations.
In other words, stacking taunt MAGs only effects whether a mob uses the taunt duration in its calculations or not. Of course, since Taunt and Gauntlet are MAG4, the only time you won't be effecting a critter is when a) you're not hitting a Boss/AV/GM with Taunt, Gauntlet (aoes included) and only RttC or b) the critter has elevated taunt protection. An extra couple seconds of RttC won't help that.
Taunt enhancement in RttC gives players a little more flexibility in their playstyle (less use of Taunt, for example) which completely breaks in a threat sensitive situation (as mentioned, grouping with Brutes and/or Inv/Shield Scrappers). The applications, to me, seems pretty limited. I'd much rather have a well slotted Taunt. -
Quote:They may be the most skippable powers, but I wouldn't recommend dropping SoW. It allows you to push from 65-70% res to s/l to the hard cap of 90%. When doing things such as tanking Lord Recluse or fighting Cimerorans this can be invaluable.2. As is implied, the self-rez (Resugance) and the tier-9 (Strength of Will) are the two most skippable parts of the build, unless you need them for concept purposes. They're OK to have if for some reason a Sapper gets through all your layers, but other than that they're meh.
Quote:Your slotting of RttC will determine your "Tankishness" in your build. 1 slot devoted to Taunt won't "do" anything meaningful to how well the aura holds aggro ... you need 2 slots of Taunt.
To be fair, the less frequently you use Taunt and the less AoEs you have will make taunt enhancement in RttC more worthwhile. -
Quote:Short answer: It provides 5% + 1% for the first mob.I'm pretty sure it's 5 + 1 base, because it comes up in Mids as around 9% when slotted to the ED cutoff.
Long answer: Invincibility gives two defense bonuses, one is +5% and the other is +1%. Each and every mob will apply both those bonuses to your character. The 5% bonus, however, is flagged not to stack. So, instead of getting 5% + 1% + 5% + 1% for two mobs, the extra 5% bonus is dropped. -
I think people may be looking at damage contribution from too small a lense. I won't pretend to not have my own predjudices nor will I pretend to have all the answers. From where I sit, it really depends.
Consider that in order for Corruptors (and all buffer/debuffers) to deal optimal damage requires them to burn activation time on setup. Heat Loss, for example, isn't free. It costs 2.376 seconds to cast, time a Blaster (or Scrapper, etc) could be using to deal damage. The more active a set has to be to maintain its buffs/debuffs, the more of their damage output is lost.
On the other hand, dps ATs (like Blasters) bring an absolute amount of damage. Buff/debuff Ats, on the other hand, scale. A Blaster may out damage a Corruptor on a two man team, but the bigger the team gets, the bigger the damage contribution the Corruptor provides. This is because they're boosting the performance of everyone on the team. A 30% resistance debuff can increase the teams damage by 30%, not just the Corruptor's.
To be fair, there are times when the entire team doesn't focus on a single target and instead spreads out its damage out. (Either by trying to speed a TF, or by trying to kill split up adds, or whatever else.) In these situations, a Blaster would bring more damage.
Also, Corruptors deal more damage the harder the target is. The longer the target lives, the longer they're in "Scourge range." Minions and Lieutentants (on teams) could die before a Corruptor gets off a single Scourge. However, on a slug-fest like Reichsman, Corruptors could be Scourging him for minutes.
My personal opinion is that buffers/debuffers bring more to a team than a dps AT - not just in terms of damage, but in terms of survivability. For trash or AoE fodder, Blasters are better, but as content gets harder (longer lasting AVs, +4 adds, etc) the buffs/debuffs just do more good. Do I think Blasters are worthless? No. Is bringing a Blaster crippling to a team? No way. Would I team with them? Absolutely.
Note: As always, not all sets are equal. A Cold brings far more firepower than a FF, for example. -
Quote:Thanks for the explanation, Uber. I figured you'd have at least some way of confirming your performance. One more question, if I may:Typically, I get the sense from a combination of orange float text, or (less reliably) step changes in the target's HP based on when I appeared to attack. As you say, though, those are highly subjective.
However, I always log my chat. Chat logging also logs things like damage dealt and received. While occasionally data doesn't make it into the chat tabs, this seems more common for ranged attacks against distant foes than melee ones against nearby one. So when I get that sense of high DPS I'm referring to, I can often refer to those logs to get a sense of whether it was valid. By itself it would be basically impossible to deconvolve that from damage buffs, and DR debuffs, but I always monitor damage buffs, so unless they vary wildly through a given fight, I can get a decent feel for those. That leaves debuffs, which can still be a wild card. If I don't have a good idea how many were in play I'll generally discard that set of data, but if I do (or know, for example, that there were none) I can usually make an estimate and back out my approximate "real" DPS.
I'm not saying I do all this analysis all the time, and not just with my Stalker by any means. I do it when the fancy strikes me, when I feel like I was doing especially well. Overall, my gut feeling seems to line up well with the numbers when I check them out.
You speak of consulting logs when you feel you were doing very well. This leaves me wondering how they compare on more average runs and the frequency of the two (average vs great runs). -
All you need to do is type in the level using your keyboard. I don't believe there is any special setup / keybind required to do that.
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Quote:Just out of curiosity, how do you "notice" you're doing comparable damage to an AV (not sure if you're talking about compared to your Scrappers or those on your team)? I sure wouldn't feel confident making a DPS comparison based purely on observation. I'd want either a meter of some kind or an after the fact demo record analysis.Since I spend a lot of TF time on teams with very high-order damage buffs during the AV dog-pile in particular, with most of my team very near around me*, I notice that I'm often running very competitively with my Scrappers. Frankly, after the changes to Brute Fury, the interaction in damage buffs and Fury's bonus and the reduction in the Brute damage buff cap, I'm likely usually above what a Brutes can contribute unless they're a /FA Brute using Fiery Embrace.
I'm not trying to attack you, I'm genuinely curious. (I'm spoiled by WoW addons which allow me to monitor / perfect my performance much more closely than is possible here.) -
Quote:Soul Drain was also front loaded by giving it a first target bonus. It's +10% dmg per target plus 50% for the first. So its buff ranges from 60% to 150% (for Scrappers, 8% / 40% / 48% - 120% for Brutes/Tanks).Sorry for unresearched reply - but yes, several issues ago Siphon Life was made a much better attack power. Might have been i13/i14, something like that. Damage from Midnight grasp was also 'frontloaded,' so most of it happens as soon as you click the attack.
Have fun with your Dark melee character. -
Quote:Last time I checked, this is because +heal set bonuses effect heals and only heals, not all the effects a heal enhancement does (maxhp, regen, etc). As a result, the only WP power they would effect is the amount of hp Resurgence gives you.2 - Try to have +heal bonus from Numina's Sets
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Issues: Since mids doesn't take into account both the +heal bonuses from Numina's nor the Alpha Slot Spiritual (+heal), I am not sure I am over the hp cap.
Note: From what I've read, the Spiritual line functions like a heal enhancer, boosting maxhp, regen, etc. -
Quote:Okay, that's more along the lines of what I expected. I was reading that literally and was trying to figure out how you were doing it. Got it.Two things. I checked the numbers and I do only get 50% of my health off of one target. It just always seems to be "enough," so it may as well be a full bar.
Quote:Second, what's this about anchoring a debuff to prevent bane summons? I ... never have a debuff anchored on him. I tell the team to anchor all debuffs on the towers in order to bring them down faster. I've never seen him summon banes before about 5% health.
It's also possible for the Tanker's aura to factor into this (if it's autohit, like RttC), but Dark Armor doesn't have an autohit aura.. Curious. -
Quote:Just out of curiosity, how are you getting DR to give you a full heal on Recluse? It's what, ~33% heal (of base hp) without slots? You'd need to hit at least two targets, and you'd only reliably be able to hit a Tower (Recluse has capped defense until the Orange Tower was down).*Don't get me wrong. Tower buffed LR has killed me, and it's usually because I'm not using oranges (I have a problem "throwing away" inspirations). It's just never been on an MoSTF.
Unless, of course, you don't anchor a debuff on him and allow him to summon Banes throughout.
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One other thing I haven't seen anyone mention: your team matters a lot, too. I'm not necessarily talking about support (which helps), but also how fast they can drop a Tower. Only having to survive 2-3 minutes per Tower is a lot different than having to survive 5-10 minutes per Tower. It prolongs how long you have to survive under the high stress which can both strain your insp pool (which can be mitigated now by mailing yourself insps, this didn't use to be an option) as well as just giving Recluse more chances to get lucky. -
That did the trick! Pretty impressive you were able to get that much regen, defense, and maxhp in the same build. Having said that, however, I still have two strong concerns:
1) You only have ~30% s/l defense. A very large number of defense debuffs out there are typed as s/l (guns, swords, claws). This means that enemies with these debuffs will be able to crash your exotic defense by targetting your weaker s/l. I'd much rather sacrifice ~200 hp to bring the s/l def up to snuff.
2) Your offense is pretty weak. Since threat generation is a function of damage output, the less damage you deal, the less threat you generate. (This is pretty important when dealing with Scrappers / Brutes with taunt effects.) Second, your tohit chances against higher levels (ie: +4) is pretty low as well (~60% - ~80%). This may not be an issue when soloing, but on teams and TFs it could become quite problematic. With so few attacks with minimal recharge slotting, you'll likely resort to AoEs against single targets and will be particularly vulnerable to rech debuffs.
It's an impressive build for what the goals were, but I still think other goals yeild higher returns. -
Quote:Yep, I was just confirming.That's what I'd figured. But he asked if it was possible, not if it was a good idea.
I tried to import that into MIDs, but it didn't come out right. (Only ~2800 hp after adding Accolades. Also, Maneuvers was unslotted and unslottable.) -
Possible, but it's not worth all the tradeoffs you make to do it. You're much better off with less hp and more +defense. You can still get a good chunk of hp (my build has 3167 maxhp) without making the sacrifices in the above builds.
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1) Earth's Embrace, in addition to the heal and +maxhp buff, also provides you with 20% toxic res. If you slot EE with resistance, you increase this toxic res.
2) It's not recommended that you slot EE for resistance. -
Quote:Looks like ~109.2 ft (70 * 1.56). Of course, you don't have to stop at 3 slots, after all.Confront slotted for ED capped range puts you at a little over 105ft and one can now boost the range further if one really wanted via a Cardiac Core Boost.
[edit: Oh, and that's with SOs, not generic IOs.] -
Quote:True, but you can slot Confront in many ways...Last I checked a few issues ago (after the "taunt -75% range" change) his attacks still had enough range to hit at 80 feet after tanker Taunt... Weird.
(Note: I've always done the brute force "stand in his face" approach, so I've never tried it the 'sneaky' way..) -
Quote:Both of those methods have been tried in the past, with less than stellar reception:Stretch the animation, lower the to hit chance, anything, but make the damn hits count.
Granite used to have a large tohit penalty, which was later changed to a damage debuff because people hated missing. Energy Transfer's animation was stretched out to maintain its damage (instead of a quicker animation and lower damage) and people complain about corpse blasting.
Not saying you wouldn't prefer it, but it's not as if those models have been completely ignored. -
Quote:Pretty much. In my screenshot, you can see it ticking for ~55 damage at 75% res. It would've been ticking for 220 with 0% res, and it ticks 11 times for a whooping total of 2420 dmg before resists. (She was +1, so at +0 it would be 2180 dmg as an EB.)But if she hit you with Soul Storm, it's a hold, it lifts you up in the air and spins you around slowly and does a DoT that bloody well kills you.
It may not kill you by itself if you're at the HP cap / have decent passive res with some regen to back it. However, the fact your other toggles suppress will ensure she hits you with something else.