Sarrate

[ QUOTE ]
Endurance efficiency, practically speaking, means how much endurance you use per chain of attacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kruunch: They're saying how much damage you deal per point of endurance, DPE. Time isn't a factor. Let me give you an example:

A lvl50 Tanker will deal ~8.55 damage per end consumed for a single target attack. (A single target attack consumes 5.2 end per 1 damage scale. A Tank deals 44.488 dmg for a 1 scale attack, so 44.488 / 5.2 = 8.55 DPE.)

A lvl50 minion has ~430 hp. That means, in order to defeat that enemy, the Tanker has to consume 50.29 end. They could deal that damage in 5 seconds, 10 seconds, or 10 minutes, it will still cost 50.29 end to do (before slots; ~19.33 end w/3 dmg and 1 end reduc). Yes, if two sets were identical except for animation time, the one with faster animations would run out of end faster, but it would be a result of dealing more dps not being less efficient. It would pass the finish line sooner (if you finished the fight before running out of end) or near the same time (end constrained forcing you to deal damage no faster than the rate you recovered it).


To use an analogy, assume a car gets 20 miles to the gallon regardless of other conditions (speed, etc). If you have to drive 100 miles, that car will consume 5 gallons every time. They could drive that 100 miles in 1 hour, 2 hours, 2 days, etc, but it will still consume 5 gallons. The car's efficiency remained constant.

[ QUOTE ]
And I'd argue that Defenders are even worse off. Yeah, they have powers available to them to deal with Endurance, but so do Tankers. More importantly, Defenders can't afford to slow down their attacks to recover a bit- if they let their guard down at all, they're faceplanted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Vox: I agree. Not only that, those powers cost endurance and time to setup, so they aren't even free. I've yet to make a Defender that can solo as well as a Tank, better efficiency be damned. My example is Kin/Sonic. Massive damage, huge efficiency, near unlimited endurance, but man when things turn sour... (That's also a function of status protection, though.)

[ QUOTE ]
Originally, FA (Weap Mastery Targeting Drone is simply an animation tweak clone of FA) was friggin' huge +tohit coupled with the +per and resistance to tohit buff. The cost was actually commensurate to the benefit. When Castle reduced/distributed the numbers, he didn't reduce the end cost along with it so it's still friggin' expensive.

Personally, I prefer Focused Acc/Targeting Drone mainly because they provide tohit debuff resistance, but also because most of my builds are already hurting for power pool choices. I wouldn't be all that adverse to a reduction in the end consumption though. We're paying for a huge buff and only getting a moderate one.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm 90% certain that when FA was modified, the end cost was lowered. I remember it costing ~1.17 eps, or 50% more than the current 0.78 eps. Not sure if there is anywhere to corroborate my memory, though.

Right.

Sorry, its just not my day for clarify today.

Actually, let me clarify what I said, because I can already see what I said being a bit confusing. What you'd need is:

Global Rech: 90%
Ment Training: 20%
Hasten: 70%
TOTAL = 180% global rech

Then add 95% from slotting for the +275% rech necessary. That's enough global rech to just perma Hasten if it has 95% enh as well. (I previously forgot to readd Mental Training to my calculations)

[ QUOTE ]
How much recharge? Counting both Mental Training and Hasten, and 95% recharge from enhancements.

[/ QUOTE ]

900 base / 240 duration = 3.75 = 375% total recharge, or +275% recharge (subtracting out 100% base)

So that's ~90% global recharge after slots, hasten, and MT. Hasten would have a slight downtime which would marginally deperma the pets, but it'd be within 5s of perma.

[ QUOTE ]
I truly did not think such monstrosities were possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind that you're sacrificing a lot to hit those stats. This is a very specialized build, much like AV soloing builds are generally pretty specific (re: lack AoEs). They're good for what they're built for, but doing anything else will suck.

I'd much rather have a less extreme build that fares well under a broader set of circumstances. Just my personal preference.

I threw this together in about 10 minutes. I didn't pretty it up, order powers in any way, etc. Just grabbed powers that would accept +s/l def sets and away I went.

The build is ugly as sin. It makes me cry.


Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Spines
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Barb Swipe -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Fire Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-EndRdx/Rchg(15), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(17), RctvArm-ResDam(17), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(46), S'fstPrt-ResKB(46)
Level 2: Lunge -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 4: Healing Flames -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(27), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(31), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Dct'dW-Heal(34), Dct'dW-Rchg(43)
Level 6: Build Up -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(11)
Level 8: Spine Burst -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(37), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(37), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Oblit-%Dam(43)
Level 10: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(13), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(13), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 14: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(37)
Level 16: Plasma Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-EndRdx/Rchg(21), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(23), RctvArm-ResDam(25), S'fstPrt-ResKB(50)
Level 18: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-EndRdx/Rchg(19), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(19), RctvArm-ResDam(21), S'fstPrt-ResKB(45)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(34), P'Shift-End%(50)
Level 22: Weave -- HO:Enzym(A), HO:Enzym(23), LkGmblr-Rchg+(45)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 26: Combat Jumping -- HO:Enzym(A), HO:Enzym(27), LkGmblr-Rchg+(45)
Level 28: Jump Kick -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(29), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(29), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 30: Consume -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(40), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(42), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Oblit-%Dam(46)
Level 32: Throw Spines -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(33), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(33), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Ragnrk-Knock%(43)
Level 35: Confront -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(36), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(36), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(36)
Level 38: Impale -- Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(A), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(39), Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob(40), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(40)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Laser Beam Eyes -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Energy Torrent -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Dmg/Rng(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit



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Notes:
Hasten is not perma
The build will chew endurance like crazy due to sucktastic end reduc slotting.
You didn't specify Blazing Aura / Quills, so the build doesn't have them.
Depending on what you're fighting against, you could drop 1-2 of the Steadfast KB IOs.
[edit: I added Accolades for end management.]
...damn is this build ugly.

[edit: And Prey not only beats me to the punch, but with a stronger build to boot.]

[ QUOTE ]
If you used PB with Lingering Rad, you'd only increase the -RunSpeed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love Power Boost, I keep finding new ways to use it.

Soak an alpha? PB-&gt;RI (ensures the tohit debuff is enhanced for the first volley)
Heal up fast? PB-&gt;RA-&gt;Life Drain
Stun a lot of minions for a long time? PB-&gt;Dark Pit
Hold something for a long time? PB-&gt;Soul Storm
Hold a lot of things for a long time? PB-&gt;EM Pulse
Fast vertical travel? PB+GvE Jump Pack+Raptor Pack [edit: My Corruptor is a Super Speeder]
Misc stuff? PB+AM / PB+LR
[edit: Need extra tohit? PB-&gt;Soul Drain]
[edit: Extra long immobolize? PB-&gt;Tenebrous Tentacles]

Power Boost is my awesome button. If I ever finish my build (I'm dragging my feet because it's so freaking expensive) I'll have it recharging every 35s.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
there are no good typed defense prime IOs for PBAOEs

[/ QUOTE ]

Erradication, +3.13% e/ne def; only takes 3 slots, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I rest my case.

Unless you're telling the OP that they should be concentrating on typed defenses with their Fire Tanker.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not necessarily. I haven't really looked at making a typed def build for sets without a def base since the change to def set bonuses. (There are advantages to both, positional covers all damage types including most psi and toxic, while typed defends against specific types and is available with fewer slots than positional. Kin Combat for 4 slots and Erradication in 3, for example.) In general I'd default to positional.

I was just pointing out that there was at least one nice PBAoE set that had very nice typed defense. (The first four bonuses are pretty good overall.) It was a side point to your post rather than arguing with your entire premise.

[ QUOTE ]
there are no good typed defense prime IOs for PBAOEs

[/ QUOTE ]

Erradication, +3.13% e/ne def; only takes 3 slots, too.

Reasons I take Taunt:

*) AVs/GMs have a bad habit of shrugging off auras and Gauntlet. You may hold aggro most of the time, but it's not a guarantee. If you're doing the STF, you'll pretty much need Taunt due to their higher level.

*) It's a way to keep aggro off others with taunt effects - the most problematic of these are Invuln and Shield Scrappers. If you don't have Taunt and you fight an AV, you won't have aggro.

*) While auras and Gauntlet work well for mobs in melee range, as Coldmed said, it doesn't help mobs that somehow get outside of your melee range. Whether it's knockback, AI quirks, or an ambush.

Taunt is too useful of a tool, for me, to pass up on; it handles too many situations. I don't PUG much, but I suspect it would be more useful there than in a group of friends. You can always give it a try without and play it by ear. (I normally pickup Taunt in the 20s, since I start teaming more then compared to 1-20. You also get SOs and finally start feeling like a Tank.)

Congrats you guys! I didn't think it would be possible without temps... I'm impressed. Then again, you did have buffs (GC + Maneuvers)... cheaters!

[ QUOTE ]
It helps if some peeps are brave enough to get near you to drop more inspires on you.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I do on my Tank is pull Recluse to one of those pillars at the back of the plaza. When he's there, people can give you inspirations from out of LOS without a hitch.

[ QUOTE ]
The reason EE isn't overpowered on a Troller is because their secondaries already have a heal(well, most of them do), while Doms don't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not most, only half of them have a self heal (asterisked):

1) Empathy*
2) Force Field
3) Kinetics*
4) Radiation*
5) Sonic
6) Storm
7) Thermal*
8) Trick Arrow

Actually, if you include Cold Dom (I16), the majority of Controller secondaries wouldn't have a heal (5/9).

[ QUOTE ]
I'll never touch FA again. It's too damn squishy and I don't like being knocked back by pylons. Apparently they do more KB than 3 of the -4KB IOs can deal with. Pretty much rules out /DA as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Swarm Missile

Hmm, not very helpful, since I don't know what knockback table Pylons use. I know it has a chance to do greater than MAG 10, since Granite's MAG10 kb protection isn't sufficient w/o Rooted's 10,000% kb res.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, so how do I figure out my DPS with all 3 mentioned (SS, Energy, Fire) in comparison to the "Big Boy AV's" Resists? Thanks in advance. Or if you aren't tired of putting up the numbers for me Please list them, thanks in advance.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, you can look up “all” enemy resistances in the game here. If you're doing 130 DPS, and the AV has 20% resistance, then you'll do 130 DPS * (100% - 20%) = 104 DPS. But since an AV heals 94 hit points per second, you're really netting out to 10 DPS. Be prepared for a VERY long fight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, I am not sure I am understanding these numbers as correct. . .if I could get an explaination on this as well. I take the numbers to mean for example .50 for Dominatirx is 50% resistance, but, what about the people that have 1.00 and 1.20, 1.30, .80. Are those 100%, 120%, 130% and 80% for resistances?

[/ QUOTE ]

That column represents damage taken. So 1.00 means the mob takes 100% damage (no resistance). A mob with 0.80 takes 80% damage (1.00 - 0.8 = 0.2; 20% res). A mob with 1.2 means they take 120% normal damage (1.0 - 1.2 = -0.2; 20% vulnerability).

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, we're already well over 95% for +4s if we can leave Focused Accuracy on. But I think my new target with the new I16 difficulty is 95% against +7s. I want to play a game of "just how high uplevel can I hunt?"

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind that past +5 your effectiveness goes down the proverbial toilet:

<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Lvl ToHit Effectiveness
+0 75% 100%
+1 65% 90%
+2 56% 80%
+3 48% 65%
+4 39% 48%
+5 30% 30%
+6 20% 15%
+7 8% 8%</pre><hr />

So, with a Kismet, Tactics, and FA running (and the latter slotted), you'd still need an additional +170% accuracy to cap against a +7 (that's already counting FA's 20%).

Also, at that level of effectiveness a non-resisting minion would have about as much effective health as an EB; bosses would be in the AV range.

That's not mentioning the mobs having +50% acc, +10% tohit, and +88% dmg against you. Not saying it's impossible, but it would be a very long and hard trial if you could ever get the build down. (Yes, yes, lol innuendo. I know you were thinking it.)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(QR)

I soloed Math at +1.

[/ QUOTE ]

Try the AV 'Calculus Sucksicus'...

[/ QUOTE ]

He's kicked my [censored] twice in a row, but, strangely enough, I had no problem taking out "Mega-Statisticon" or "Calculus the Discrete".

[/ QUOTE ]

I managed to take down Stringus Theorius... but there was a heavy price.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your sanity?

[ QUOTE ]
Darnit!!! Why you had to say that!!! He may had forgotten that too but no more, you had to remind him that too!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Starsman: Sorry, consistency compelled me..

[ QUOTE ]
Don't you mean the Death Knight broadswords?

[/ QUOTE ]

Leech: Pardon? What Death Knight broadswords? I don't think that was its name, it's been a while, though.

[ QUOTE ]
I pretty much agree with Sarrate..

[/ QUOTE ]

Forgive me for channeling Horatus for a moment, but... doom!


Also, I'm looking forward to Earth Assault for Dominators, too. The idea is growing on me... now I just need to see the power list.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Apart from Spines being able to use the geometry from Thorns, and Thorns being able to use the geometry from Spines (both of which can be colored), there will be at least one other set of alternate geometry/FX.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that the steel-y spines that whats-her-face uses? Uh, Silver Mantis? I always thought that'd be a keen look for a spiky hero and/or villain...

[/ QUOTE ]

No. It never occurred to me that Silver mantis had spines. The ones I made are very basic, conical, metal spikes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that you been refreshed about it, how about adding them in?

[/ QUOTE ]

That may be dubious - other weapons have been excluded from our use because they were unique to an enemy.

Ex: Shadow Spider's broadsword ("Shadow Blade", or something like that) was added during Weapon Customization's initial pass, but was removed before it went live. To be honest, I didn't even know she had a broadsword, let alone that particular model.

Yep, it's a quirk of those IOs. I doubt it's intended, so if they patch them to be unenhanceable, I wouldn't be surprised at all.

As for the Miracle, I had to double check, but it looks like its recovery is enhanceable too. Keep in mind that it only lasts for 120 after you click the power, so you'd lose Miracle's +recov at the same time that OwtS crashes. I'd suggest you slot it into a passive rather than try to enhance it.

[ QUOTE ]
If a self heal of some type isn't offered in ElA, would you prefer +168% regen over Aid Self (not to mention that you can slot most of the afore mentioned into Aid Self)?

If not, then what do you give up to keep Stamina? Fighting Pool? Leaping/Flying (assuming you're trying to build defense)? Speed (Hasten)?

On a total resist set, you need every source of defense you can get AND a heal (as witnessed by Fire Tankers that attempt heavy tanking). Regen is nice but barely cuts it at WP levels in my experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not an expert at Elec Armor by any means and I won't pretend to be. My main point was that 168% regen isn't a trivial amount to just pickup somewhere. If you have AS with 95% heal slotting and recharging every 10s, it's exactly 1/4 of Aid Self, passively. (If you're using Aid Self every 10, you're spending ~30% of your animation time doing nothing but healing. That's a ton.)

I'm not saying I'd take 168% regen instead of Aid Self - I'd take both if I could. (As I said, I've never made a build without Fitness I've been happy with, so I'd be taking it anyways. That's just my opinion.)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

... really, a RO network member is asking how you kill +4's without a tank?! If the 54's are eating your SO invuln, just get a defense buff to get you to 45%.

[/ QUOTE ]

My SD Tanker is above the soft cap and with adding in the debuffs from DM, I still get hit constantly by L52s (L54s that much moreso). I'm still not getting how you stay alive (not to mention killing fast enough to make it worthwhile).

Do they just not hit you (and are you all hovering at max range or something)?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never been on a team with G_Tanker (heck, I don't even know what server he plays), but you can definitely make groups that just neuter enemies. For example, two colds will softcap the entire team. A couple sonics/thermals could resistance cap the team. Now add in debuffs like rad, dark, or Kin to reduce enemy damage even further.

Survivability anecdote: 6 dark Defenders and 2 storm defenders vs Ghost Widow on the STF. We had so much resistance (Shadow Fall, epic shields) and damage debuffs (Darkest Night / Twilight's Grasp) that her 400 dmg/tick hold ended up doing 10 damage per tick... when it hit (we were softcapped). Heck, we tanked 3 AVs with pretty almost no issue. (There may have been 2-3 deaths total.)

Then look at the buffs (Accelerate Metabolism, Fulcrum, etc) and debuffs (Enervating Field, Lingering Radiation, Sonic Disruption, Tar Patch, etc) that turn enemies into jelly.

Support heavy teams are really a sight to behold.

[ QUOTE ]
The regen you could get elsewhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

To look at it from a different point of view:

Health: +40% base, 78% slotted
Numina: +20% base, 39% slotted
Regen Tissue: 25% base, 48.75% slotted
Total: 85% base, 165.75% slotted

That's a lot of regen to makeup from set bonuses - seven to fourteen 12% regen bonuses. Of course, taking Health isn't mutually exclusive with those regen bonuses; you could go both routes at once if you liked.

Counter example: Would you skip Weave on a def heavy build? Sure, you can make up the def with sets, but it's easier not to - giving you more slots to focus on other bonuses. (Not necessarily the best example since def stacks exponentially rather than linearly like regen, but hopefully you understand my intent.)


Note: I've never played Elec Armor. Too one dimensional for my tastes.


[edit: I tried a Stamina-less EA Stalker with ED and CP... I hated it. Too much waiting on / reliance on clicks to sustain my offense, which interrupted the flow. Besides that, I felt slow (no Swift/Hurdle) and the lack of any extra regen (Health) sucked). Your mileage will vary on builds without Fitness, but I've never been happy with any I've tried. Ick.]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe rooted?


I think that is what I was thinking of.

+hp/+regen?

[/ QUOTE ]

Rooted is actually status protection and +regen... of course they've modified powers before, so it's possible they could make rooted work like you state.
[edit: I don't think the mobility penalty would be worth extra regen on a Dom..]


Earth Assault excites me; I can't wait to see the full powerlist.