QiSnake

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Remind me which inspiration it is that allows you to counter instadeath from stalkers then :P

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Phenomenal Luck, taken liberally.

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Heh, true. I'd use my PFF more to deflect the AS's, but I end up using it so often that im starting to run out of air in there

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Except we have been saying more than that.


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Thats just the point, its been blown out of proportion, and you're actually just replying to that out-of-proportion image that had been created. Problem is, the "sit the hell down" replies dont work, unless the target is actually up in a huff about it. It might sound like the OP is, but I think thats just due to interpretation.

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Because the OP is coming across as someone that views any opposite viewpoint as an insult and "pointless".


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That line was used in a passive sense, I already clarified that for the sake of trying to prevent a needless "oh look a whinger" thread from appearing again. Though it seems I wasnt quite clear enough before, so i'll try a bit harder. The original thing the OP said was :

"In addition to all the people that say it is a silly idea. Well then come up with your own. Don’t just say its rubbish and leave. The whole purpose of this post isn’t to insult my idea and at the same time it isn’t to promote my idea as the all encompassing solution, its to find a solution that satisfies all of us. Don’t just put an idea down."

This wasnt a reference to people making direct insults, but more an all-encompassing remark about the way some suggestion threads go. Some people do just pass by and say "That idea sucks, I like my controller, if you dont like it, dont PVP, etc etc" and never -actually- contribute. Whilst it was a little unrelated seeing as everyone appeared to be at least making a half-hearted attempt and discussing it, it seemed he/she was trying more to encourage people to come up with other ideas.

Although, people wont do that if they just simply dont want it to change. *shrugs* I personally like it the way it is, but I see where everyone is coming from, to be honest. Break-frees are an all-or-nothing inspiration. If you have one, mez free for a short while, if you dont have one, you're likely to be smothered and unable to respond. The point was that there is no fun in being locked down, in the same way there is no fun when a build has no ability to see certain stalkers (hide+stealth). Whilst all of the players I personally respect understand that both controllers and stalkers are like that naturally and for a reason, it doesnt prevent some of us from wishing it could be a little more entertaining than just twiddling our thumbs on those occasions.

Just because something is fine as it is, doesnt mean it couldnt use a little extra something. Like... a sandwich. My straight chicken-in-brown sandwiches dont -need- anything else, but it doesnt mean a little tomato sauce would make it worse Okay, bad analogy, but after all this -is- the suggestion forum. Its okay to dream, even if some of our ideas suck. Naturally, things like mezzing, hide/detect, powers stats and the like, will get more attention than others, especially since the inclusion of PVP.

I guess im just saying, I dont think the OP means some of those things -quite- as seriously as some have taken them. Easy mistake to make, I guess. Its just that a lot of honest-to-goodness threads go pear-shaped when too many people spring up to defend things. Im sure you've seen how even really good stalker threads tend to die in a horrible ball of flame and nitpicking? People even line up to cheer at the threads when they explode, as if its destined, like lighting the fuse on a firework.

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I do apologise for my original tone


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Heh, well as far as tones go, im probably not doing any better than you either. Wittery old man-nanny that I am

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Your comments about casual gamers, running out of inspirations....etc, ARE weak arguments as the game IS casual friendly and you can just go and stock up on inspirations all over again. It's the same complaints people had about Stalkers; they were kicking up an enormous fuss about the current "state" of the system, yet didn't bother to use the resources that are easily available.


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Remind me which inspiration it is that allows you to counter instadeath from stalkers then :P

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I'm sorry, but if you're not willing to adapt to PvP, you deserve to be splatted by people that focus on that part of the game.


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Another assumation. You've taken everything he/she has had to say thusfar and turned it on its head, to try and use it to rudely reflect on the opening poster. Simply put, nobody likes to be mezzed, and simply sit there doing nothing whilst they get seven shades of snot kicked out of them. He/she posted a suggestion. It doesnt matter whether it was overly elaborate, they tried to contribute. All you have done so far, is be rude where there wasnt any actual call to be so. If you looked at how they phrased that line about being "insulted", they were simply asking for people to do more than simply say "thats silly" then leave the thread.

You'd do a lot better to treat your own posts with that same critical eye.

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Funnily enough, just because you think it's a solution doesn't mean that everyone else does.

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Did you somehow get the impression that the suggester was trying to force their idea down on everyone?

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Why add an enormously complicated solution to a problem that doesn't exist? It's like me adding a safety trigger to keyboards; utterly pointless, and just a waste of resources. There are already solutions to the "mez" problem; abilities, inspirations and so forth.

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Yes, but if people could play a more active part in preventing mez than just having mez resist running, the game would be more involving. Nobody likes to be simply stood there, waiting to leave their mez-state, so these kinds of ideas are a step in the right direction, even if nobody likes them. At least someone is being creative and relevant with their posting, eh? Punishing someone with the critical "sit the hell back down" tone you've been using, just for making an attempt at a suggestion, is the only 'utterly pointless' thing I see going on here.
Hence this post.

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Complaining that we "insult" your idea and insinuating we're adding nothing to the discussion - when a discussion is more than people just nodding and agreeing with one another - is a very weak strawman."


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Discussion is also about disagreeing and further developing ideas, even if it means concluding that its not what most people want. The disagreement would have lived fine without this critique on the thread poster, and in my opinion, it would be a lot better without. You again misinterpret his use of the word "insult", he was using it in a passive way to show he'd much rather prefer someone did something creative with his idea rather than just dismiss it, even if they bring up a completely different approach altogether.

So, as you can probably tell by now, its not nice to have someone on your back. Now all you have to do is imagine I didnt have a reason to point this stuff out, and you should be able to tell why Ally got frustrated with you.

*tips hat*
Nothing personal, but your tone was bordering on the fairly obnoxious, at least how I heard it with the pursuit over the posts. Because im not a mind-reader, I apologise in case I came off too blunt with my points here, but they still stand. Dont chase someone around in circles unless you have a real reason to, being the only real one I wanted to make.Tone is important online, you probably meant no harm at all, but you really did come off like you were trying to -make- a target to shoot at, rather than pick off something that was left untouched.

In effect, the straight-forward stalkers placate is a single-target close-ranged power, that forces you to be unable to target whoever used "placate" for a while. It has the added effect of placing the stalker in the 'hidden' state too, which means they can follow straight up with a critical hit or assassin strike if they intend to keep fighting.

The ?/ninjitsu stralkers have another placate, too. An AoE placate, only you'll see that one used far less often, and although i've never had it, its supposed to have a short activation time too.

In a game this dynamic, with so many archetypes that reach far off into different specialisations, how exactly is it possible to reach a real sense of balance? In truth, that kind of thing may be possible, but it would take far too much time, effort, and a lot of trial and error (and annoyance on our part) to find a way to give everyone a participating chance in a PVP fight. The problem is, that would most likely cause PVE to be very different from PVP, unless of course the changes happen to both, which would force the already fine PVE side to become very odd-feeling.

I have to say that I think the way the AT's are right now, is probably the best we're going to get for overall balance. Sure, there is room for some tweaks, but the only way to bring balance to an equasion with so many specialist and mixed-type AT's, is to allow each one a strong ability. Each AT has a real strength to it, but it doesnt guarantee they will compare well against all opponents. Controllers without stalker defense measures will find themselves laying on the floor 99% of the time. At the same time, people without mez protection also find themselves unable to take part in most fights when a controller shows up.

The solution you proposed is creative, but I dont think I like it. Both out of personal preference, and the liklihood of people finding and using exploits with the way it works. I dont personally think it suits the game at all, though it would be interesting to implement this idea in another way. It might make a good plot-piece for a magic-origin story arc.

You can slot them for intangability, so it makes sense. I was wondering why that was included.

It might help if you said who your character/s are, that you're willing to fight with, and in which servers (and which side of the game :P)

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The moral of this story? Pick your target

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Or better yet, if you pick the stalker AT, dont expect to get easy meals forever. I like how a lot of people just pick stalkers in hope of having risk free kills, whilst being impossible to attack, but then just leave the zone when people have some way of fighting back against them.

Not that I can really criticise, having a brute and a stalker myself.. *shows his learner plates*
Sometimes, the differences between a good stalker and an "I want to win with no skill" stalkerplayer are so huge, its too funny ^^

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just a quick question... how did you have granite in bloody bay?

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Busted!

I still think that getting experience and debt from NPCs in a PVP zone -could- be a good idea, provided that the debt is scaled depending on how much damage was done to you by another PC. If a PC takes 99.9% of your health away, but an NPC finished you off with -1 damage (using DoT) and you get the full wedge of outdoor-grade debt? Thats annoying. Or its like those unlucky few who were suffering tiny DoT damage when they get AS'ed and ended up in debt as a result. Depending on your level, debt can become a serious pain, especially for the more team-dependant AT's that cant always get a team to help them level.

If you got debt relative to the amount of damage you recieved from an NPC, that would be far fairer, considering all the fighting takes place outdoors, but is still technically 'in mission'.

Still, I wouldnt cry if all XP and debt left the PVP zones.

*groans*

1vs1 duels or fixed matches are VALID even in the PVP zones. It doesnt matter whether the actual rules say you can attack anyone of the opposing side that you wish, people are free to fight as they want, that includes focusing on a single target. However, this also means that whilst two people have resolved to have a duel, this doesnt mean you have to wait until they are finished to attack the opposing teams member.

In the end, it is considered good manners by the duellists, if you wait until the battle has finished, but due to the nature of the beast (PVP zones), it is not griefing if you interrupt the fight to try take them out. Whilst 1vs1 fights are valid, so is interrupting them. Interrupting them is not griefing, nor harassment, it is the zone policy of hero vs villain. Due to the zone rules, you can teleport people into drones, you can pin people against objects with knockback auras of sorts, you can take a team of 8 (originally) high levelers against a single (originally) low leveller, and that is still not harassment.

The PVP zones are rough, that is a given. Any and all morals and personal codes of conduct are optional, provided you are within the rules of the game, do as you will. That is the way the game goes.

The problem here, originates from people trying to impose their personal code of conduct over someone elses personal code of conduct. In the end, the only code of conduct you HAVE to obey, is the one set by the devs. No personal verbal harassment, no using map exploits. Petition those you feel are crossing that line, and ALSO alert someone with relative authority through the forums.

For all the discussions we can have, nothing will change unless the devs give it the thumbs up. Unfortunately, with the direction half of these threads take, I have to question how useful they are. It does let us get stuff off our chests, but they do attract a lot of heated, aggravated replies.

To summerise, provided you follow the rules set by the devs, meaning those which apply directly to the game, and those you are directly made aware of by someone of authority... then you have nothing to worry about. However, most additional courteousy will likely be appreciated. Its not necessary, but its often appreciated.

Petition those who break the rules in a manner that offends you, or prevents people from having fun, and bear in mind that trying to enforce your own morals over someone elses in-game is tantamount to harassment too.

Where is the love, people? :P
A little common respect costs nothing, and takes a lot less effort than descending into in-game flamewars. We will always gripe, but the difference between a good player and a bad one, is that the good players often take it with a pinch of salt, and never make their remarks (or take them) personally.

Its a game, its supposed to be for fun. Can we work towards that, now? ^_^

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Some people have complained about getting tp’d into watch towers as they cannot get out of them without using tp or having someone else tp them out. Now my MA scrapper has no ranged attacks to get people with when they run off as they often do, he has not got enough acc to hit most folk anyway as not PvP slotted yet anyway but that’s another matter., so I would view getting tp and tp foe and sitting in a watchtower tp’ing folks to me so that they cannot run away while I try to wail on them a valid tactic as it traps them much the same as using hurricane to trap someone in a phone box, cargo box, etc (has the added bonus of if they cannot get out of there in the first place their best bet is to let me kill them otherwise after I’m dead they’ll still be trapped but that is another issue) However I am pretty sure if I started using that tactic I would very quickly get shouted at and petitioned by folk.


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Very good point.

However, to be honest I couldnt care less what they say on the US forums, I dont read there, I dont post there. If they want to use forums to outline rules to us, they can tell us -here-. Or better yet, they can write it in an update so it can be seen when I go through the autopatcher to enter the game.

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I wouldnt class TPing someone into some mobs as griefing, more like unsporting.

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I'd imagine it depends on how often it's done to the same person.

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Technically I could see it as a valid tactic, but I would never use it myself, simply because of the debt it will eventually cause. Its true that having NPC's around doesnt always result in someone getting debt, but it becomes a high risk. If say, a tanker or a brute was giving some weaker heroes/villains a hard time, they should be able to manuever the situation into some NPC's to try even the odds. If the entire no debt/xp deal was in action, this would happen a lot more. However, as it stands, we do get debt, and it is the full-scale outdoor debt too. Its not quite so bad if you're a level 22 who lands some debt, as say, a level 35 or above. Sure the debt can be worked off, but as a controller who usually ends up having to solo, or if im really lucky complete missions duo-style, its a massive pain in the behind to work off debt, and slows down my already slow progress.

At the same time, mistakes do happen. I've been AS'ed and fell from flight into a mob the stalker couldnt see, just the same as i've used 'crush' to drop a super-jumping escapee to the floor, only to realise they were passing over a mob at the time. These things happen, and thats why by my own personal code of conduct, I -also- fight the NPC's along with the villains. Aggro management might prevent me from getting as much bounty, but I can hunt guilt free

I think the devs did the right idea by leaving any additional rules out of the PVP zones, that way you can fight full-force against people. But they -really- do need to clarify a few things. If they could officially say "a, b and c are all legal tactics, though x, y and z are all against the rules and petitionable. K, l and m are frowned upon, but are valid tactics until we nerf them", then it would really remove a lot of the excuses for the in-zone debates and flamefests.

Then again, people will argue even if the rules are clearly outlined for us, but at least it'd stop a few of us from adding to the flaming tumbleweed

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One of the Villains was using tp and then using a hold on me, not a problem. Good tactica I feel, annoying as hell but good. However, I assume that tping me and freezing me in place in the middle of a mob of +1 Tsoo o 3 seperate occasions and then buggering off and leaving me to die and get debt is frowned upon by the community? Would it be considered griefing?

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Definately griefing.

Im a person with very odd PVP morals. If there is a fair-sized team of villains at the hero base (outnumbering us), I have no moral worries about wormholing someone into a drone. People dont like me for that, but, I do try to not be a rear end about it. However, being a controller, I do honestly feel the misery that its possible to bring in PVP, those chainholds have to get annoying (for those who dont outright resist me, damn you!). I've been known to hold someone to a spot, then upon realising there are NPC's newly aggroed into the fight, I attempt to keep that person held, whilst I actively fight off the NPC's first. That has actually gotten me KO'ed an aweful lot, but thankfully, I havent got debt from this recently. Or when an ally is trapping a lone villain against a terrain object using the storm controller whirlwind thingy, or using repel in the same manner... I normally wormhole them OUT of the completely defenseless spot (which annoys my teammates), if they arent taken care of swiftly.

Yeah, some people call me strange with my PVP ethic, but generally, people only follow their own ethics in the PVP zones anyway. We are still however, bound by the rules of the game, and it doesnt hurt to be a little considerate. Though dropping players, held, in groups of NPCs is a 'valid' tactic, it is a one-way ticket to deliberate debt, which is direct, unavoidable petition material.

I have to agree that normally the little arguements and insults arent always that bad, it does just become a drone of competetive banter that you get used to and can sometimes chuckle at... but it does go too far sometimes, and really ruins the feel of the place.

Why cant there be some kind of entrance exam to the PVP zones? Like the "literacy test" you have to go through in Kingdom of Loathing, before being allowed to use the chatroom? :P

Every time im heading into a PVP zone, I always fill up my inspiration tray. Once they're gone, they're gone, I dont head out to fill up again. Its worth hunting NPC's sometimes to try pilfer an extra inspiration.. but it has the inherant risk of some enemy jumping out and taking advantage of the situation, so its best done sparingly.

Thats an excellent post, and I agree with most of it. How rare :3

If controllers can use catch a breath, non-controllers should use break-frees. If stalkers and blasters can use insights and enrages, tankers and brutes should use respites and lucks.

Yes, inspirations are a pain in the behind, but thats what they are there for. Yes they give heavy advantages, but they are short lived. Having your target running back constantly to get more inspirations every time they use a full tray of them just to take you down -does- feel exceptionally cheap, but PVP is full of people feeling robbed.

Im a controller who has trouble holding most targets down, thanks to travel powers kicking in faster than my actual holds, with the partially-held slows doing very little. I have never once had a problem with a target using a break-free, or several over a prolonged battle. Why exactly would I want a target to hold still and give me an easy fight? That eliminates the idea of fighting your opponent instead of sitting down for a polite conversation. :P

Lots of things in PVP are lopsided at times, the powers balances can seem great one minute, then two people combine their powers well and suddenly PVP seems to majorly suck. BUT, inspirations have been here for ages, and being prickly at someone for using them is pretty pointless, in my opinion.

Follow my example, im only a half-useful controller and I dont make it personal when a target uses a break-free. Just dont make stuff personal, tease perhaps, but dont act like brats, c'mon!

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but Ninjitsu has special powers to help, such as AoE Placate


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Its not AoE placate, its AoE blind if I am correct. Placate makes you 'hidden' to a target, and able to get the instant criticals/full AS damage, blind however simply means they cannot see you, but you are not in the 'hidden' state.

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And using the geography for tactics isn't an exploit, it's SMART. Whoever heard a military commander go "Oh nooo. we can't use those trees to hide in before the ambush. that's not FAIR to our enemy." I even use containers and boxes and whatever can give me an edge when I play PvE.

TP'ing people into a place where you can't get out because of GAME MECHANICS though, is a completely different matter.


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True enough, and hopefully a future patch will ensure that it is harder to keep a target pinned against a wall/object for a length of time without them being able to fight back. A lot of the current problems do have to do with niggling little bugs, the overuse of the stalker AT, and how off-balance fights get with the numbers of hero/villains in a zone swinging around so much.

Fingers crossed that it'll eventually work out better, but for now, im at least glad the larger group PVP dynamic works.

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Oh, and don't get me wrong. But if you can hold a PC helpless in one place, kill NPCs around you and eat food IRL then something is wrong. And I wouldn't call that skill either.


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Agreed. It may not be skill, but it shows a good knowledge of how to use powers to your advantage. There needs to be a line drawn between strong PVP play, and outright bad behaviour. As it stands, every and all tactic are valid, but certain tactics cross the boundary where you can petition them for 'harassment/conduct' problems. If a team of stalkers can group and repeatedly AS a controller, then people can hide in hurricanes and stack perceptions so its just as impossible to hide... this is well known. Nobody has to enjoy the enemies tactics, but provided there is a CHANCE of effecting the outcome of the battle, all is fair. However, when you deliberately cripple an opponent in a manner where they are completely stuck and unable to take part, thats where it passes into the gray area. Keeping certain players in someones team locked down is a wise tactic, especially against the individual who can most exploit your teams weakness. However, if you teleport someone into the guardtower, so they have no chance of effecting battle or escaping (those without ranged attacks or teleport), then it crosses over completely into jerk tactics.

Still, this is all in the grey area. From my experience, those with the upper hand are quite happy to use everything they have, and broadcast "If you dont like it, stay out of the PVP zones" to everyone, but the moment someone uses a similar tactic against them, they start to broadcast "OMG you heroes/villains/stalkers/controllers are always ganking!". Despite peoples experience of me in the PVP zone, I do believe in sportsmanship as well as using tactics considered 'frowned upon'.

I would remind everyone that there is a difference between merciless PVP and unsportsmanlike PVP. Whilst you dont have to give the enemy extra chances to win, you also dont have to completely ruin a day worth of PVP for them. Lots of us feel robbed and angry at the events in the PVP zones, but we often forget that sometimes that is the way it goes...

Some of the worst supposed gankers i've witnessed/fought against/teamed with, have also been some of the strongest, sporting allies and enemies once the zone evolves from its 'loose pickings' stage into the 'organised riot' stage. Its a shame that there is always such tension, because when it heats up, its a really enjoyable place to be.. and you can even share a laugh with your worst enemy no matter how annoyed you are.

PVP zones, such a double-edged sword... --;

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2: Larger zones with more secure hero and villain entery points.

3:larger selection of temp powers for sale ( I know it shifts focus back to powers again, but it might help plug a few gaps in some builds)


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These ideas, I really like. Particularly the idea of more temp powers for sale. There are too many holes in the builds, and whilst a temp power shouldnt be able to plug it completely, it should at least give people a chance to fight, if at a disadvantage. But, with the varying strengths and weaknesses, how can we balance this out? IR goggles work well enough for some, whereas for others they arent nearly strong enough. So many things to think of..

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As I said before tping into drones is not a vioable use from a safe zone and shouldnt be allowed as you can affect you can unduly affect a battle outside by tping combatants into drones with no option of escape. This goes on both sides, I know an awful lot of Villains on Defiant are against this practice and are very keen to stamp it out we would like to see the heroes do that too.


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Im too used to people TP'ing us heroes out of the safezone though, I learned the habit as a knee-jerk defense against people looking into the safe zone. I dont have the time to spend right-clicking, going to the info, and checking if they have teleport capability, then wondering if they'll actually use it. Threat assessment often occurs in seconds, and based on appearance. Again, this falls down to personal moral code, whenever I have personally been TP'ed into a drone, I was annoyed, but I didnt feel robbed, its part of the fight. Then again, I dont think i'd ever really resort to doing it outside of SC, because the hero base in SC is very small, and any vulture-like basehumpers only have to focus their view on one small section. There are no combat NPC's in our base to deter kamikaze attempts on us (and stalkers often try hard to bypass the drones at some points, though i've yet to see a successful AS in the base). In the end this will come down to a dev decision.

Though, I completely understand you if the rumor I heard was true. Was that time you got debt of a drone alone a one-off, or does this happen to you every time you get droned? If you get debt from some bug, i'll make an exception and leave you alone, but otherwise, TP-to-drone is a good way to thin the enemy ranks so we can fight you off, and move the fight away from our doorstep.

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I think what the Dev's need to accomplish is to ensure that any AT has a chance to be defeated by any AT regardless pof powers.


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DEFINATELY agreed. Even if one archetype is weak to another, they should still at least have a half-decent -chance-.

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A controller using Hurricane for example shpuld not be able to be immune from Stalkers as they pretty much are at the moment, and all AT's shpuld have a chance to see a stalker coming in hide without the need of perception based abilities.


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Also agreed. Naturally, certain powers should be very strong against certain archetypes/builds/tactics, but there should always be some way through it. The problem is, we think in terms of 1vs1, but the PVP zones are designed for teamplay, and if you think about it all in terms of teamplay, it does balance out. The problem is, teams arent always available, and when they are, normally one side has a large advantage (which often drives the weaker side to retreat, leaving only one or two left fighting). The trouble is that changing PVP so that it is more suited to 1vs1, means that teamplay suffers in its dynamic riot-like style. To be honest, when teams are equal in a PVP zone, its excellent. When they arent, one side is likely to get very annoyed and likely start a broadcast arguement/debate about the other team being overpowered/cowards/gankers hiding in groups.

I say, hate the game, not the players. But it'll never stop there being tension

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Rather than nerfing powers the introduction of a better resist/saving throw system would surely open things up, make the game a bit more skill based and give it a bit more of an edge.


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Im not too sure about this. As mentioned earlier, to make any significant changes, the entire balance of PVP would need an overhaul. Every AT would need tweaking, and this may in turn effect PVE in a bad way. Still, it doesnt hurt to be hopeful.

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Hehe no,you were not getting much love in sirens yesterday,at one point someone was calling you a coward cause you where hiding in the hurricane!1!!!???? why? is what I want to know lol


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If you happen to be able to counter their rehearsed attack patterns, you're generally called a coward. Unfortunately playing it cautious is the only way we can spot/counter stalkers in the end, and even with hurricane and dispersion bubble, I still ended up getting AS'ed twice without seeing them. Its a love/hate deal, and sometimes people -are- cowards, but if people are learning to respect the way stalkers play, perhaps they should learn to respect the way we have to counter them.

Either way, im just an arguement magnet recently, perhaps I should call it a service and start charging?

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Had a funny moment tonight first off,I was sitting in sirens near the villain base not paying attention watching TV.

So I turn around and 3 villains are on me and then im dead so this one villain goes "lick that" so I say well done you just killed me whilst i was watching tv...bla bla bla anyway he didn't beleve me so later one of his team mates TP me into a tower and im stuck in there,big mistake i have tp foe so I tp the guy who was taunting me into there and beast him 2 times in a row,he starst moaning that it was a lame tactic thats what made me laugh......it was there own fault they tp me into there so I just keep tp one after the other and killing them in there....was very amusing,they couldn't go anywhere and hurricane was just flipping them on there back sides

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I had to laugh at that one too
I know who did that too. He was being a bit vulgar over the broadcast channel whilst he was slamming us heroes around, so I used wormhole to put him in the miniature guardtower, from which he couldnt escape. Naturally, this was only meant in a humorous fashion, and was intended to show him its not fun to have the full extent of 'legal' PVP tactics used against you. We got the stalkers to agree to leave us alone whilst I came back and wormholed him out of the tower again.

Its surprising how they change their tune from "If you dont like it, dont come to a PVP zone" to "omg u r lame, [censored pet cat], cheat". Im taking it that it was the same guy, as he hasnt had any trouble deciding to TP foe people out of the safezone, before. Particularly people with afk signs up.

Still, you have to laugh, eh?
I gave up after I petitioned the guardhouse bug twice, so now I just keep it at the back of my mind for those rare situations... muahaha. Im sure he took the joke as a serious ganking attempt, even though I got him out. I dont seem to be very popular in SC right now do I? It never ceases to amaze me how much a tantrum people are willing to have, when they are treated the same way they treat others.. (in general)

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In addition no firing from or into safe zones should be allowed nor the disgraceful use of tp foe to cowardly tp people into the drones from the safety of your safe zone.


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I have to agree with the disallowing of firing into/out of safe zones, this would solve a lot of problems regarding having somewhere to afk in (and people ALWAYS need to take breaks when real-life interferes momantarily). To perhaps prevent a person from idling when they are someones bounty, those in safe-zones could be deemed 'out of zone' and the bounty target changes again?

Given that TP'ing into drones doesnt actually give debt, I still have to say its a viable tactic, especially given that it is most oftenly used when the opposing team is setting up camp right outside your doors. There is a point where it is excessive, and it can be used to simply annoy other people, but in the competetive environment, disadvantaging your opponent is something you would want to do. TP'ing people OUT of the base is definately worse IMO. Providing there isnt chain-teleporting into drones, if you got teleported into a drone isnt it a sign you're sticking too close to their base? Especially in Sirens Call, the hero side only gets a little nubbin of a so-called base. I used to need to wormhole players into the drones just to ensure they didnt TP us first before we could even stay outside of the hospital for long. Now, that isnt really the case, but in your case, I TP'ed you because I wuv you. :3

Sorry about being harsh with you, by the way, but you were being harsh to me too. Its all in the flow of PVP, but hopefully next time we wont need to namecall or make it personal, because I quite enjoyed kicking your behind in revered silence (when you werent reducing me to a corpse in a gurgling rush of blood).

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PvP is basically a big mess at the moment and Cryptic need to sort it out quickly or they will lose people to games like wow that at least has a cionsistent and balanced pvp system.


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I havent touched WoW, and I dont really plan to, but I have to agree. PVP does have its highlights, and sometimes its just one huge, heaving, ongoing (good) riot in the PVP zones, but when there arent relatively equal teams working in somewhat unison, all that happens is the different teams of heroes and villains prey off the weaker targets... and in the end, everyone feels robbed, and then combat slows down as the broadcast channel gets filled with people whinging about people whinging about whinging about stalkers/blasters/brutes/scrappers being overpowered. There are some real lopsided equasions in PVP, but then again, for how harsh the zones are when there are only a few people in them, it really does thrive when the teams are remotely even and the players are at least partly well-mannered.

I guess it comes down to the vision of the devs, do they want to accomodate the passive, mediocre, random PVP combatant, or do they want to flush them out in favor of keeping the already somewhat stable mass PVP mix? The PVP zones were designed for mass combat, but there arent always the players required, and given how the sides vary so greatly in numbers, it just doesnt feel 'complete' yet.

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I suspect we will have to wait until the villain gap is raised to 50 to see how PvP will truely function.


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True that, a lot of what we have found in PVP might go out of the window once level 50 villains start romping around.
-dread-

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On 4/1 in Union Sirens it became pretty clear that the majority of heroes in the battle were either able to see me through hide & stealth or had a personal based power that interrupted my AS.


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Ah, Union. Thats my blind-side. Im a defiantist :3
This is just my opinion, but defiant seems to be the more popular server, and if this is true, it might explain why there would be less villains around in union, and naturally only so many of them would want to PVP regularly..

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I'm sure some will jump up now and say they have a corruptor who does well in PvP. Well, guess what. I guess it depends on having a team, and specific sets. Hmm... looks just like the anti-stalker formula: get a team, get target drones (specific set).


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This is why I have talked about skill over stats before this thread, if you have to rely on certain powers to make sure you have a -chance- of fighting back, something is a little dodgey. My mind is a little caught between "This is hero/villain world, some powers naturally bypass others" and "This is a game, and a game where teams arent always available". It seems that one side or the other is always in a state of defenselessness, thanks to certain powers completely turning certain ATs/powersets near-useless.

I appreciate the fact that battle is never supposed to be an equal-rights affair, but sometimes things DO get a little too one-sided, and it really does suck the fun out of PVP. The more we get into this, the more we seem to see that to balance out PVP a little more fully, all AT's might have to undergo more nerfs.. and nobody likes that.
(though to be honest, my main character is a grav/ff controller, and I didnt mind the i5 changes at all)

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Also, if it's balance we're talking about:
I saw a blaster happily as ever charge into a small team of villains and two shot others: stun and finish off. Only when I entered with my stalker would that blaster start to complain...


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Its easy to feel robbed, and forget how the opposing side feels. I've taken to apologising to my targets in PVP whilst I chain-hold them and shoot salvo's of barstools at them...
PVP, guilty pleasure. :/

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PS. It's winter, and someone has turned off the heating in my room... So I'm cold and angry. Forgive the attitude.


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What attitude? Amongst many strong-minded villains you're one of the few who are polite (if direct).

Anyway, about other powers and such.
Someone brought it up a while ago, that healers have a hard job maintaining the health of their team. Not their actual physical health, but their 'status' health. When you get a fairly high level team running around in a mission (or PVP), the status icons next to a teammates name extend right into the center of the screen. If you dont know what im talking about, the next time you join a team press the little arrow next to the teammates names. I always have those on, so I can tell when people need forcefield top-ups, or whether I need to move myself to keep the main aggro-takers under my dispersion bubble. Healers have this even worse. The icons for enemy stun/hold/disorient/etc are nearly always different. Different symbols, different colors. How is a devoted empath supposed to know when to direct their attention onto the vulnerable teammates when they dont even know they're in trouble? They cannot see the entire battlefield at all times with absolute clarity, so we need a little help on this side of things.

It would be really nice if there was a band of color at the end of the name-bar, that turned from white to blue when someone was effected by a 'hostile state'.