QiSnake

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Couldn't believe we snuck that second match. I was so busy trying to stay alive. Thank god for pets. Set em off and then run away from the psycho scrapper and the two storm toting squishies

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Hehe, the sad thing is that I forgot to start the demo thingy recording at the very start of the second match. When the timer started to tick down, I remembered it but didnt have time to start it.

Remember what the first two things I said were?
"I'll try to isolate and occupy the scrapper"
::6:: ::5::
"Rest quickly, im going to ambush!"
::2:: ::1::
*doesnt use rest, pops two cabs, runs across the small indoor office map, straight to the three enemies all kneeling down resting, spawns his singularity pet on top of them*


Somehow we managed to pull ahead of them by one point to get the win, but that could have so easily been a draw or a loss for us. One of the most chaotic matches i've ever been in, and the screaming look of frustration on Soaring Dragons face as he circled my force bubble looking for a way in was priceless. A guilty pleasure

Still, they handled it really well, even with PFF being raised and lowered in the worst moments, a singularity and a force bubble, I got served a good few times. I actually manged to record that match too but I think we're missing the first minute of it. Shame, I thought the early pet-rush was hilarious ^^

I dont envy having to track that many things. It'd take at least 4 people to keep up with it, and 8 ideally (4 per server, 2 per hero/villain side), but it seems they barely survived. The real fight is in the organising and win/loss tracking, y'see. Us arena fighters have it easy.

Two things I think are worth keeping in mind for the second 3vP (if ever there is one, after this tourney) :

1) Subs shouldnt be able to save lives for absent teammates. By not being there, they should automatically lose a life, and the sub should be given just to prevent those who actually attended from losing out (having less chance to win due to being outnumbered).

2) Finding a way to track available subs would be great, that way even the subs could be picked at random, instead of the team picking a replacement they like, essentially bridging weaknesses they might have had in their original team. Though it was meant as a playful remark during the event, a sub on an opposing team decided to change to one of his alts for the match, after being assigned. Sure, if its in the rules, why not? Still, to me, that would seem to go against the randomness of the event, and removes an element of having to adapt. This in conjunction with the sub being able to save the absent members life if the team wins, seems a wee bit too much.

Regardless, things went smoothly and we all had a laugh. Thats the main. Found myself a rival in Soaring Dragon though, that mean sunnuvabish managed to cut through my PFF a few times, nearly offing me in one! :P

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tbh i finding my first macth to be unblaced coz there is one controler earth/ff, 2nd strom/elec defender 3rd spines/regen aginst us which are corrptor,blaster and me. but still i will fight but we all know what the results will come out.

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These are arena matches, we dont even know what zone we'll be fighting in. That can change a lot. In an open-area map you'll have a strong advantage, and whilst we may have a controller, a stormie and a spine regenner.. you have three damage output classes. Inspirations are allowed, remember that, and try not to predict the battles before they happen. Adapt fast, and you should do fine. Our team is actually worried about this fight, but being 'unbalanced' is what happens when you enter a completely randomised tourney. I think we knew what we were getting ourselves into

By the way, its Grav/FF :P

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WHoo Yeah! pc fixed and upgraded time to bring on the pain !!!

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I just got my comp to stop bugging out a while ago too (with some helpful thoughts from the people passing the tech support forum).. so I know exactly what you're talking about
*cracks knuckles*
Bring it ^^

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All powers are instanty recharged in the Arena as well, even though it looks like they are recharging. Just click on them and they will activate. Hate that bug >.<

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I've never heard of that one before.. we did two test matches between a few of us and I didnt see a bug like that. Sure it wasnt just a bad day you were having?

Then again, instantly recharging powers sounds nice..

So there'll need to be a section for the competetors to stand to one side before the match. It sounds paranoid, but there will be those who spam buffs/heals, and they'll carry over into the match unless they're left to wear off. Like the FF bug, where you can apply the two personal FF's to someone, then reapply them straight away when you're in a different area (or just a mission), so you get a x2 stack of them.

Thanks for the info!

Just so we know. Tomorrow at 7pm, right?
Are rounds 1 and 2 taking place after one another, or are they set a week apart? Also to clarify, inspirations are allowed, as are those annoying arena buyable powers, right?

Once you get some more people on your global friends list, try getting some people interested but say you wont be doing it until -insert day here-. If you plan ahead, then you're likely to get a better turn out. Y'know, with making sure they have some hours spare.

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Why u ask rhetorical questions

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Because im hungry, hungry and stupid

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ok then 5 heroes, if ALL of u charge in to take out one mastermind theres one gone, their base is a long way way and ur hero base is about 100ft!

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Thats supposed to be a plan?
"If we all charge in on the same target, then thats one gone", even when the most commonly noted problem with breaking through camping forces, is that its difficult to take out a single villain before you all get stuffed back in the hospital? Its true that their travel time back to your base is your main weapon in 'breaking the siege', but if you couldnt push them back on your first zerg-rush, you arent likely to have much better luck once they've got dug in and have camped for a while.

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u could of sent bait out there


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When they can see pretty much everything that is going on, they arent likely to take such obvious bait.

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then gank that stalker! bamg anoher gone


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Provided you can see/catch it, and take it out during the normal long chase-scene as the stalker runs around trying to stay alive, whilst being bombarded by the camping force.

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try lure them in they might get powed by a drone...looks like another is down


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Or not, their main concern when camping a base is often keeping far enough away from the drones, the heroes often come second to that.

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make a distraction n nab the back person with 4 people


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This is a useful tactic, but given camping forces are normally packed into a fairly small area, and there will be teams in there, its hard to take someone out with 'surprise' unless you have good damage output. If one force is camping the other sides base, thats normally a good sign that they have a lot more damage output for the time being, otherwise they just get pushed back naturally and little real camping occurs.

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hey looks they r prety much all gone now


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..and then you woke up and ate your cornflakes. They werent facts, they were chained suppositions and assumations.

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not so difficult aye?


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Except all you did was make basic suggestions, and breaking through a line of people camping a base isnt as easy as "'Bamg' and the dirt is gone". This thread was dead, you missed the "the solution is obvious, you're just stupid" phase. So I have to ask :
"Did you use your head one tiny bit?"

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Just use Fraps. It's very easy and intuitive to use. I would, but it lags my PC too much, especially for a PvP contest, where it's not fighting brainless NPC's

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It'd be a better idea to do the easy 'soft' recording thing within CoX, and then using Fraps when you play back the recording (to get some decent angles). That way you're also not lagging in the middle of the match..

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Looking forward to this already, Apologies to Qi and the other unfortunates stuck with me

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I'll cover your [censored] if you cover mine

Also, its worth taking note of the original levels of the people you face in combat. It might not sound like much, given that everyone is sidekicked/exemped to the PVP zones level, but the original level of a character makes a lot of difference, and not just in slots. It seems pretty difficult to PVP in the lower zones now, simply because of the number of higher-level characters exemping down to get in. It gives a bad first view of PVP, when two supposedly equal-level characters keep fighting, but one always seems to win hands-down.

Although PVP can admittedly feel a tad lop-sided and dodgey at times, I think it makes a good distraction. PVP can be great, even with people who arent exactly all-out friendly towards you, but I think the trick is in knowing when to cut your losses and leave. Sometimes the PVP zones get overrun by complete imbeciles and there isnt much you can do other than wait for them to bugger off back to a street corner with their alcopops, so it might be worth grabbing the global names of the PVP'ers you team with often so you can hit the arena sometime.

I'll have to run a quick search for the "how to make recordings" and "how to play back recordings" threads once I get my PC finally sorted out. If someone from each of the fights could record it, then throw the resulting demofiles to one of the 3vP authorities, we might end up with a video made up of combat snippets.
*rubs hands together* Oooh, this is getting good.

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This is going to be awesome, as long as my pc gets fixed first dont wont to let my teammates down

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I know the feeling. If you peek into the tech forum you'll hear me whining about my dodgey graphics-drivers freezage problem. I can play well enough, but the last thing I need is a nasty surprise once we're in and fighting. Going to be a good few sleepless nights by the sounds of things..

Heh, this will be interesting. Im against Soaring Dragon in these first two matches, but in the second one, Eat Static'll be with him (a teammate from my first round). Do I go all-out and risk them working out some kind of painfully effective tactic against me, or do I hold back as much as I can until the second match, then let rip?
*chinscratch*
Hmm

On the bright side, most PVP regulars have the enemy chat enabled, so if you really feel the need to congratulate someone (or speak to them), you could try asking a regular to pass on the message or get them to enable PM's briefly.

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I probably wouldn't teledrone anybody on live though. I don't want to give anyone debt, even if they are playing in a way that sucks all the enjoyment out of the zone. The same applies to knocking people into mobs, etc.

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Droning doesnt give debt at all, it was removed shortly after PVP went live

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The third issue is a very specific one - it's the towers right outside the hero base in Siren's Call. The brute I was talking about earlier makes a habit of occupying one of those towers which is just out of range for most powers. The brute stands in the small door area of the tower, which is the only way to exit it. They then teleport controllers/defenders (those who lack knockback fields) into the tower, and the troller/fender is unable to escape and is quickly pulped. They do this again and again.

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Heh, I admit that i've teleported someone into that tower ages ago as a joke. Was funny for a moment, but then I teleported him back out. Thing is, this has been covered by the devs and is classed as griefing, hands down, as there is no way for non-TP characters to get out, without a teammate with recall friend. Petition the bugger the next time it happens, the GM's will set him straight. Though on a funnier note, I do recall someone being the victim of that tactic one time, only with a little twist. The teleporter got himself into the tower, and proceeded to TP Foe squishies into there with him, so he could have easy kills at melee range. Well, he made a bad choice and picked someone with a knockback aura, who turned it on, and mostly brawled 'em to death. Of course, when the guy came back to the tower to try again, the squishy TP'ed him in, instead, and did this until the brute (I think) started to have a tantrum and threatened to petition him for griefing. xD

Double standards, they make Cthulhu cry.

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Then we basically aggre on that teledroning when it's not due to base snatching is low


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No, I dont agree to that at all.

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and then call a couple of kinetics friends to perma ID me while i tp u from the highest buiding around to make u fall hehe


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Unfortunately im a flier with forcefields, good luck with that :P

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But i'd even go further. I think drones should disappear, too.


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Urgh, I still dont think thats a very good idea at all.

Base-snatching and droning both have their places within PVP. Neither one is inherantly a lame tactic, its just down to how the individual uses it, the same way that a certain PBAoE toggle in the storm summoning set is seen as a cheap power. Its down to how you use it. If you're fighting outside the base, and every time one of your opponents gets below half health, he runs back into his base? Perfect time for a basesnatch. Completely overwhelmed in numbers at the base, or being followed by a stalker that you just cant seem to hit? Try for a droning whilst you get back in the field. Each person who has teleport, has the ability to use it wisely, or the ability to throw it around and do little more than annoy. Provided I make sure I dont abuse it, I dont really care what people think, im not going to sit and listen to abuse in the field on an opinion built on a double-standard. I have to agree, some things do go beyond "Alls fair in love and war", but just fighting back isnt exactly a taboo.

Well at least they know there is a demand for it.. fingers crossed at least.

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The whole more conventional idea of chatting there then going Right then you wanna prove you're so tough eh! Fine you, me arena now! BAM!

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Bang! And the villain is gone!
Sorry, just reminded me of Cillit Bang. Time for my shock therapy.

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ffs....its a game!!!

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Congratulations on your outstanding discovery.

My advice for a stalker PVP build :
I uh.. uhm..
Never eat yellow snow!

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This is the post I read of you. You obviously say dozens of times that you were being base-snatched, and those dozens of times i just seem to miss that information. Maybe I'm just short sighted...


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Not really, that post you just quoted was originally what you responded to with your comment about mobbing. That sparked the following conversation, but the original purpose of my post (as I recall) was really just to show an example of simple events where droning was again considered worse than base-snatching. Yes, that one example of droning was primarily to stop my teammate from being base-snatched, but if he had gone into a frustrated frenzy (and I felt it was getting to that point), then we would have lost the last of what little organisation we had, when we were already outnumbered too. It served its purpose, the base-snatched stopped doing it for a while, and things became less frustrating.

The posts that were made in response to you after the mobbing comment, were hypothetical, and some were recollections of events i've faced before. I was trying to make the distinction between debt-squadding and merely rising to meet a different kind of attack (TP vs TP), because the LAST thing I like to think, is that there is someone out there running around thinking debt-squadding is perfectly on-par with mere droning. Thats the main thing I wanted to clear up here, and it is why I repeat certain things so many times when you seem to just breeze right over the top of them.

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Or maybe u should reconsider who is running in circles.


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I wasnt running, I was watching, and trying to point things out. Like when you began to assume it was an ego-building thing, or when you thought the droning was merely an act of vengeance with no other value than to annoy, these were assumations that had little bearing on what I had said, and I was trying to put them back into perspective before yet another one appeared. That is actually why I ramble on so much in many of my posts (not just in this thread), because I cant stand it when people insert their own, unrelated factors that end up resting upon my shoulders, and just ends up slowing the progression of the actual discussion at hand. I try to have some clarity in my posts, and be articulate where I can be, so that there isnt much room for misinterpretation. Unfortunately that means I repeat myself a fair bit when I have to re-cover something I felt we've already finished in the subject. Its likely that if it appears im not listening, its just that, an appearance, and nothing more.

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I did say I believe that teledroning is fair to get an advantage and then u ask again why I don't think that.


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Its true you said you believe its okay to gain an advantage, but then you moved on to say that you dont believe what I did gave any advantage, so I clarified how it did. The tone in your posts suggested that you only accepted droning if the person did it within your view of a good time to use it, but otherwise you would feel it is no worse than debt-squadding. Again, this is why I went to such (prattling) lengths to describe my personal view of things.

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What I dont see is the part where you say that guy was snatching your base in your post. Would you please be so kind to point me where is it?. He had to be very big though, to distinguish who was tping among all the snatchers, gratz for ur good sight.


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I dont feel like going back and quoting myself, tbh. Even if I didnt say precisely that he was base-snatching, the fact he was within range of being TP'ed into the drones does hint at that, and there was also the repeated mention of basesnatching afterwards. If I wasnt clear enough at that small detail, fair enough. As for the size of the TPer, he was average size, but figuring out who is teleporting you isnt too hard unless they are stood directly in the thick of a tighly packed group. It was easy to see who it was, when I was watching overhead and saw my teammate appear next to the one who he said he thought was doing it.

Are you trying to catch me out on technicalities here, or is it just me? I dont like having to explain myself, but you're getting the benefit of the doubt.

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It's true, I said that if someone teledroned me given the information I read in that first post, I would try and drone him to mobs, and I keep it.

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It still stands that debt-squads are far more like griefing than any single droning incident. The devs have said using mobs is a valid tactic, but they didnt touch upon purposely getting your friends together and attempting to give deliberately give debt. Besides the fact its a bit of a tantrum tactic, its doubtful that a debt-squad would be satisfied with one helping of outdoor grade debt after they went to the trouble of assembling.

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Did u forget to say that that guy was basesnatching your team or maybe you found that reason suited your previous argumentation and decided to implement it as if it had been there from the very start?


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Now you're starting to slip, mate. Dont make this personal, even though we've disagreed we've kept this civil up until now, and that is starting to slip. Seeing as you're going in that direction, fine, i'll quote myself :
"Thing is though, misunderstandings happen, and even decent people can get ratty as hell. Some guy was teleporting my only teammate out of our base two nights ago..."

That was at the very start of what sparked this line of conversation. Judging by the way things are going, you arent likely to change your view, and its obvious mine isnt budging either. A final note though, is that the "Its not who you know, but its how many you know" rule is often one used bullying. When it comes down to the tactics you've said you'd use, thats all it would come down to, debt-squads out for vengeance vs bigger debt-squads out for vengeance. In game, the worst (best?) way you can 'hurt' a person without breaking the rules, is giving debt through mobs in a PVP zone. That makes this tactic the lowest one available within the game, because if you wanted to get revenge on it, there is little else you can do to 'sink lower' to, to get revenge. Just a thought.

Outside of that, it seems to be agree to disagree time. Any sternness in my tone isnt attempting to be patronising, in case it sounded that way..

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What's the use of that power then in pvp?

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Extracting individuals from their teams, giving you some unhindered time at taking them out. Whether or not their team catches up with much time to help them is another matter. It can also be used to pull one of a teams damage dealers/healers/mezzers away from them in the middle of a fight, whilst it does occupy one of your own people, the delay can seriously help you win a fight, especially if you're fighting on an elevated piece of land, and the teleported player only has SS. Teleport Foe has quite a few good uses in PVP, but as the name says, it is used to bring an enemy to you.

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Then if i understand it properly, the guy that was tping ur friend was using it as u say, but what was the point of teledroning him for that? It was not to get any advantage, as u just say 'Some guy was teleporting my only teammate out of our base two nights ago, so in return, I tele-droned him'.

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Oh for the love of god! IT WAS FOR A TACTICAL ADVANTAGE. How can you not understand how removing a basesnatcher is a tactically sound thing to do? Trying to form a resistance and break through the line of base-campers, you're all getting buffed and vwoop, someone vanishes and needs re-buffing, people who refuse to join teams either hold back to wait for them, or instantly charge without everyone to support them, and ultimately get repelled yet again. By droning someone who is basesnatching, they are taken out of the equasion temporarily so that we have a greater chance of pushing the enemy away from our base. And just in case you missed again : BY DRONING A BASE-SNATCHER, I PREVENTED HIM FROM BASE-SNATCHING, MAKING COMBAT AT THE BASE THAT BIT EASIER.

For petes sake, man. Are you even following this conversation? :P

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...teledroning then, as it seems the only thing that seems fair pfor you?


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Im not sure how you've come to that conclusion.

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Well if u say tp foe is not fair to tp someone towards ur team, and its not fair to tp to mobs, but u teledrone, i took its the only fair use u find for it

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Where exactly did I say that teleporting an enemy into your team was unfair? Where? Because if you read back to my last post, I was saying that was one of its primary uses. When something becomes a thorn in your side, when it is repeatedly used to severely hinder your teams effectiveness, the wise thing to do, is to adapt to it, or to remove the thorn. Constant base-snatching is one such thorn, and droning is one effective way of removing it. Not everyone has good enough damage capability to remove basesnatchers, and not everyone is on your team to listen to the "He's over there! Follow me!", and very few people in PVP listen to local chat whilst running back from the hospital entrance.

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I was asking why droning induced such frothing fits of "OMG LAME" when the very same people have no worries about repeatedly base-snatching-to-instagank

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IMO, basically when u tp foe towards your team u do it to get a kill, not for simply make the guy have to travel all the way back from hospital. Teledroning could be discussed when u try to attack roght after that teledrone, to take profit of that action. Teledroning and staying in ur base gives no gain to u or ur team, just annoys the other peep. Besides, if someone tps a guy from his base, he wont have to travel a lot to get where he was, unlike the guy that was near ur base."

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Simple solution then, dont camp the other sides base and repeatedly basesnatch-to-kill on the same person. Nobody gains from repeatedly killing the same person whos bounty has already been claimed, and isnt engaging in combat until the numbers are remotely even. All that is gained from basesnatching then, is that it annoys the the victim. The drones are placed at the base to discourage people from sitting too close to the gates and spamming powers in to KO people (and obviously, remove those who try to enter). Now if you're going to initiate combat over the bases perimeter, you have to expect to be taken out in the first place. Would you hate it just as much if say, someone one-shotted you with a sniper attack, or de-stealthed and offed you with a build-up critical, still forcing you to run all the way back, "for nothing"? Not everyone has the capacity to pick off targets from large, camping bodies, so droning is sometimes the only way to hit back. In base-camping situations, there isnt a great deal that is gained AT ALL. Cornered side gets bored and thins out as people leave, attacking side realises there are no real targets left and start to leave too, and before you know it, we have a near-empty PVP zone again. So far, all you've done is confirm that droning is no worse and no better than base-snatching, and have yet to provide a valid excuse to why you would telemob someone when they fight fire with fire. Though to be honest, I really couldnt shiv a git right now, you're just leading this thing around in circles and seem to refuse to listen to some of the basic things that I keep repeatedly saying.

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And if I call a couple of friends it is being a bully, but you helping you friend isn't?

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Thats correct, because what you were threatening to do (if people faught back against you), was to deliberately try to get them into debt, and not just try to do that on your own, but ENSURE debt, by calling in a debt-squad. That is very much bullying in my eyes, 'valid' tactic or not. If everyone who had a fair number of friends with good builds decided to behave like this, threatening those who fight back with the ensurance of debt, then PVP would die off unless the devs came to a new decision based on debt-squads.

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I agree with u that debt in zones prevents many from pvp'ing there, and yeah i think it should be a debt free area -thus a xp free area- (but also a drone free area)... and what i said is not a threat: If i tp a guy to gain bounty[snip]

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You dont get bounty when NPC's KO your target.
Even if debt and XP was removed, drones would need to stay, or ganking would skyrocket. Drones are there to prevent absolute basegankage. A lovely wall of scrappers at the Villain hospital doors, inside and out, and a hoard of stalkers preventing movement within the hero hospital. Nuff said there I think.

To be honest, I think im done with this line of conversation now. You're running around in circles and seem to refuse to listen to what im actually saying, so really its just a waste of keytappage.

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So if actually tp someone that is camping in the base so that we can kill him and get bounty is unfair?

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Not necessarily.

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What's the use of that power then in pvp?

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Extracting individuals from their teams, giving you some unhindered time at taking them out. Whether or not their team catches up with much time to help them is another matter. It can also be used to pull one of a teams damage dealers/healers/mezzers away from them in the middle of a fight, whilst it does occupy one of your own people, the delay can seriously help you win a fight, especially if you're fighting on an elevated piece of land, and the teleported player only has SS. Teleport Foe has quite a few good uses in PVP, but as the name says, it is used to bring an enemy to you.

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...teledroning then, as it seems the only thing that seems fair pfor you?


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Im not sure how you've come to that conclusion. I was merely saying that droning is no better or worse than base abducting, even taking into account the fact a drone victim has to travel back across the zone again, that is no more or less a valid tactical decision than ganking someone from a base-[censored]. I was asking why droning induced such frothing fits of "OMG LAME" when the very same people have no worries about repeatedly base-snatching-to-instagank, even when the bounty has just been claimed and wont be available for a while yet. To me, its just a blatant double-standard. I can appreciate the fact excessive droning is just as bad as hospital-snatching or constant base-TP-instagank, but for some reason people view even a single droning as far worse than a consecutive line of teleganks on the same player leaving a hospital.

"We can do annoying teleport tactics but you cant, because when you do your version, its unfair, skillless and lame, wheras ours is perfectly fine"

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And if I call a couple of friends it is being a bully, but you helping you friend isn't?

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Thats correct, because what you were threatening to do (if people faught back against you), was to deliberately try to get them into debt, and not just try to do that on your own, but ENSURE debt, by calling in a debt-squad. That is very much bullying in my eyes, 'valid' tactic or not. If everyone who had a fair number of friends with good builds decided to behave like this, threatening those who fight back with the ensurance of debt, then PVP would die off unless the devs came to a new decision based on debt-squads.

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Well AFAIK, it's called team pvp for a reason, and it's IMHO just as fair that u help ur friend, as it is that some other friend come and help me (besides i pointed out it would be a couple of kinetics, so obv the reason in this context would be that they gave me protection to tp foe .


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No, your original post that sparked this off was :
"If u teledroned me because i was teleporting ur mate out of base i would call a couple of kin friends to safely tp u and ur friend to the nastiest mobs around Its just pvp, and sooo fun "
Clearly meaning that you meant to drop us in a mob, and likely use mass slows to get us into debt. Your only motive for this, was that I would be fighting back against someone basesnatching. Not anger. Not frustration. Not trying to boost my own ego, but simply to hinder you, as you sit outside our base, pulling us out on a whim. If you bring the fight into our very base grounds, we'll bring you INTO the base. You lose only as much as we lose by being teleported out, only you have longer to get back to the front-line, and that is fair enough in my eyes, considering that our forces would be stuck in the base needing a way out to warrant the droning in the first place. Yes, some people do drone excessively, but that is no different from the basepullers either. Not everyone is like that, and I refuse to let people sling childish remarks at me (in game) because I made a smart move at the time. If people want to drop the burden of excessive droners on someone, then they can bloody well wait until an excessive droner shows up and stop directing that angst at the rest of us.

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Poppycock.


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I should have inserted "In the teams I associate with.." in there somewhere, shouldnt I?