PrincessDarkstar
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:The problem with that is I have had to sacrifice 3 slots from Charged Brawl in order to fit the slots into CI, so although I could get a gain here I would lose single target DPS overall due to the lack of slots in CB.Originally Posted by Auroxis
RoF = 52 DPA
Fire Blast = 57 DPA
Chain Induction = 77 DPA
If you want DPS, you get CI. If you want some weird ranged scrapper then go ahead and skip it, but you will be missing out on a significant amount of damage.
I would also lose several damage procs from AoE powers, and the only reason I could justify this is if I were to consider CI as an AoE power, but it doesn't sound like it is quite up to the job there.
When the Hybrid slot is released I might be able to swap from Barrier to Ageless, which will solve all my endurance problems and then I will reconsider CI because I can probably steal the slots from a different place (Most likely Stamina) and it will just become bonus AoE. -
Quote:For single target damage I currently use Fire Blast > Charged Brawl > Ring of Fire> Charged Brawl and can't even sustain the endurance on that (It doesn't bother me so I have never tried to make it sustainable).Originally Posted by Auroxis
Chain damage can proc though, and with SBE procs you'll see it go off very often due to CI's recharge.
CI is pretty much the best ST attack available with some AoE benefits, to skip it is a big mistake.
I was considering using it instead of RoF and take the slight endurance hit, but I like the range on RoF too much (Whenever an AV hits me I can stand at range and still contribute while regenerating).
If I hadn't gone with Fire Mastery then I definitely would have taken it though, but for me I need to think of it as an AoE if I am to justify the build changes to fit it in. -
Looking like /Dark to me, I had to pick /Elec with TW because it needs the endurance, but /Dark is just a more survivable version of /Elec assuming Staff isn't to endurance hungry.
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Quote:Ah, so that means that even with enhancements only ~100 damage is being splashed around - so it isn't looking like a worthwhile power for me (I have nothing like enough endurance to call is a single target power with bonus damage unfortunately).Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
One thing to remember is that the initial hit of Chain Induction is Smashing/Energy, but only the Energy portion chains.
Edit: This is actually most likely what made me drop the power in the first place. -
Quote:That was my impression, but after respeccing all my characters at least once in the last few weeks I really don't want to do another one and regret it lol.Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
I'm pretty sure that Wiki information is very, very out of date. Chain powers have been inheriting buffs & enhancements for around 10 issues now as far as I'm aware.
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I currently have an Elec/Shield/Fire scrapper and have figured a way to fit Chain Induction into my build (A power I have not used since levelling way back when) but I am not sure if it will be worth it.
Basically I run an almost identical build at the moment but without CI and my endurance is almost exactly stable when counting the time it takes to bounce from recently-killed-spawn to about-to-be-killed-spawn but adding CI would throw that out.
Looking at the numbers in mids it does 299.9 damage versus the 254.1 damage from Fireball, so in order to keep my endurance sustainable I would relegate Fireball to my opener (I cast it as I jump toward the spawn) and would use CI in my AoE spam once in the spawn (It has half the recharge and half the endurance so comes out about even).
My main reservation is:
Quote:Which makes it sound like only the base ~100 damage will actually hit targets other than the main one, which makes it a poor pick in my circumstances.Originally Posted by Paragon WikiEnhancements and Fury will only boost the effectiveness of the initial attacks, not the jumping charge
My other worry is that it will jump too slowly to actually do much damage in practice, though I think the bug where it ended if the current jump target died has been fixed?
Does anyone know how it works? And would you recommend it over Fireball? -
Hi All,
Sorry I didn't post over the weekend like I planned but my sub ended and I have only just been able to re-sub.
I am sorry that I have caused so much upset - that was never my intention and the changes I made to the OP were with the intention of making it fairer (As I was under the assumption that it was not possible in the way I originally wanted), though I do see how it didn't work out that way.
I have learned lessons from this, firstly that there is a lot of talent in the community, and secondly that what you write on the internet needs even more thought than I gave (The first post took me hours to try and word correctly but I still failed!).
Anyway; I will look over the builds this week when I get the chance and the one which I think meets all my goals in the best way will get the rewards as I originally stated. As New Dawn mentioned though I will be taking into account who provided the base build if someone took an existing build and just added a few tweaks.
Lastly: Thank you for those who have replied, it was well appreciated (Even the criticism). -
Quote:Up until incarnates I loved secondaries like that, because the 'doesn't work' part was almost never and you could pay very little attention.Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Willpower is just too boring for me. It either works or it doesn't.
Incarnate stuff hitting more and debuffing more changed all that though, and not having a reactionary 'uh oh' button has seen me rethink a lot of my toons.
On topic: Bots is the only set I have repeated (IE: Got to level 50), but I only have 17 toons. I call bots my fave set but it is my fave MM set and before GR MM's were the only villain AT I could stomach (Still are really, but I like them less and less now that content has death patches etc so MM's get the shaft).
I tend to go for Fire based epic pools though, more damage is always nice
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Quote:That is how I see it at the moment, there have been some good builds, but each used some kind of compromise that I am ok with, but doesn't quite do what I first hoped for.Originally Posted by vernichterhelge
when i saw it right most of his builds were compromises between what the OP wanted and a build he made for his own crap.
than he started to discuss to get the goals changed so that they could meet his build:
i.e. swapping one/both assaults out so that he reached softcap and perma pets (its easy to rech that when you can slot 5 LotG +rech but with less its a challange) at least his last build lacks of TT leadership which will boost tohit for scrab and pest not like hover only for the scrab
just my 2cents
PS: i read the whole thread while it was written but had no need to comment it until now
PPS: as i see (looked all his builds) is each build missing something more or less important for winning the challange
But I promise THB (And others) that I will revisit all the builds next weekend (I think I might keep my nose out of the thread during the week) and if the criteria are met then someone will get something. -
Quote:Me too.Originally Posted by Granite Agent
I have to say I kind of see his point.
I have said so a few times. I am just not declaring him the winner until the deadline and I can go through it all again.
I don't mean to be unfair in any way, I will stand by what I first said in regards to picking a winner, even if I don't use the build because I really appreciate what people have done so far. -
Quote:I try not to change them, but for the sets I would +5 I hadn't though about using <50 sets so it slipped my mind.Originally Posted by vernichterhelge
just didnt do that as you mentioned not to boost the set IOs
EDIT: And yes i hate when the rules are changed every half day as it costs a while getting good build
I would rather not have the builds relying on it though. -
I was going to post a similar question myself actually.
On my Crab I don't think I could stand looking at anything other than Arachnos pets, but they seem very middle or the road
I am hoping they have AoE to compensate because they are melee too.
Does anyone know if their Mind Link is at least perma? -
Quote:I had planned on +5ing the Pet set, didn't think about the Kinetic Combats.Originally Posted by blueruckus
Kin Combat are an excellent candidate for boosters. +5 the 4 set and your damage will be in ED cap range. Also, If you +5 TT:Maneuvers you can ditch the generic 50 IO and throw that slot in to Health for the numina proc. Wouldn't hurt to +5 Call Reinforcements either as their damage is a bit low on that build.
I will have a look into that. Thank you again! -
Quote:My local council once advertised a job for a hermit to live in a local cave. I bet he would.Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Most people do not consider stalagmites furniture.
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Quote:Then I have this lovely rock you might be interested in ...Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
But so is anyplace I sit down that has a modicum of comfort.
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Quote:See I knew there was a reason to ask you not to get put offOriginally Posted by vernichterhelge
here is my final build which fills all criteria and the build up proc is in spiderlings and guaranteed 2,16 end/sec (2,39with + endproc ncounted) after enddiscount
Pro's:
Stronger Serum = more HP
Proc in pets = more pet DPS
Con's
Kinetic Combat in Bayonet = less DPS
Lack of Numina = less endurance
Less slotting in Fortification = less resistance
I see what you did to get that proc in, and I think if it could be done without the sacrifice of Bayonet I would be considering it as a break even build so would be very torn, but as it stands I think better slotting in Bayonet is given an extra ~40 damage and I have already dropped my survivability levels quite a bit to settle on 45% defence so overall I am not sure making room for the Soulbound proc in this way is better. -
Half the cast on ET (And lower the recharge, damage, endurance etc to compensate), turn TF into Thunderstrike.
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Quote:Without going into a great deal of detail I would get the 5 Red Fortunes out of TT:M. You don't need that 5% recharge and the slots could find better homes quite easy.Originally Posted by Nightfire9
Here is what I decided to do with my crabspider.
The rest of the build looks solid enough, though probably over the top on recharge and under the top on defence as others have said. -
Quote:I would pay good money for that power!Originally Posted by Mad Grim
I said Water Blast! But fine, Water Manip too.
As for the Blast, the nuke will be a Tidal Wave that 'washes away' all the buffs the victims have. Oh, and they lie on the ground sputtering for a while.
Then a fish falls on them. -
I have now made my decision on Destiny choice, and am going with Barrier (As above eventually I will have more, but that will be ages away) because this being a pet build I think the benefit of keeping the pets alive longer outweighs any of the benefits I would get from Ageless (Which can pretty much be covered with insps or pauses).
So, where does that leave the builds so far?
Well it puts me in a difficult position, because as it turns out I have been encouraging people to go for the wrong target, but I am not going to change the goalposts now because it isn't fair to those who have spent their time helping me.
As it stands THB has provided a build that doesn't use Barrier, and manages to meet my criteria pretty well, aside from having to drop Omega Maneuver (I would have to +5 a few things but I can live with that). However when I originally mentioned being without Barrier it was so that I could pick Rebirth for the heal, rather than Ageless for the endurance. If I took this build it would leave me either picking Ageless (Which doesn't help the pets and would probably allow me to significantly remodel the build anyway) to cover the recovery hole (Crab attacks aren't particularly end heavy, but they animate so fast it makes the EPA quite poor), and I don't really want to do that.
My own build, using Combat Training: Defensive which I think was a rule change inspired by Dark Energon has met all my must have must haves however.
So overall I am not totally satisfied with THB's build to say 'winner' because a combination of end issues, attack slotting and dropped powers are giving me reservations to the point where I wouldn't really use that build. Each little thing I could see past, but not all at once.
So I am keeping this open for now, but I should say that I do appreciate everyone's help so far, and I will probably give THB his choice of 1 reward unless someone comes along and blows his build out of the water before the deadline I set.
If someone can meet my goals 100% without Barrier then I am still happy to give the big prize still (And will count Barrier as a bonus), but otherwise I would prefer people to concentrate on 40% defence, account for Barrier, and try and fit in the nice to haves which I haven't yet
I am also adding KB protection to the list going forward. -
Quote:Thats the long term plan, but with me not liking Trials it will take a very long time.Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Another noteworthy thing about the builds I've provided you with. Aside from meeting all of your 'must have' criteria, as well as your main 'bonus' criteria, my builds are not reliant on any Destiny ability. Softcapped defenses without Barrier, perma-pets without Ageless. This means that you also have the option of using Clarion for KB protection. I personally recommend getting all of them and swapping between them on a situational basis.
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Quote:I will be in bed by then so no rushOriginally Posted by blueruckus
Life without the -kb is annoyiiiiing as a crab. I ended up ditching it temporarily when I picked up my glad armor and hated it. Even as a hover crab it was bad, I can't even imagine how bad it would be as a non-hoverer.
I got your PM on destinies and will get back to you as soon as I put the kiddo down for a nap. I'll just say that the destinies are not an integral part to my build. They're just an extra perk for my crab. Heck, when I did the all-pylon run the other night I used Incadescence just for the pet teleport.
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My last post made me realise that somehow I missed Mag 4 KB protection off the must have list, but I guess it is too late to add it now
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Sorry this is long, but I need to get my thoughts on paper tonight so I can come back tomorrow and work it out properly!
I still haven't done the maths fully on Ageless, but it is looking like that would give complete endurance sustainability because although for the last minute I would still be losing a few end each second I should be able to keep going for 60s with no breaks, and the other minute of Ageless will fill the bar back up again.
Using Ageless also means that the pets can afford to have a higher downtime, so changes the build dramatically for those who are trying to use Ageless, because twice during each pet's lifetime where will be a period of massive +recharge to account for (And permanent +10%). I need to run the maths on that, but I would bet it knocks 30seconds off the recharge time fairly easily.
Allowing for that and the effect it will have on Hasten (Again something I need to calculate properly) means the whole build can have lower overall recharge, and as long as the main attacks get enough recharge in them it shouldn't have too bad a difference.
So with that in mind I have realised that an Ageless build can be so very different from a Barrier build that it isn't really fair to keep them both side by side because Ageless builds will be limited by going for unnecessary recharge so even if they meet my targets they are likely to be suboptimal because they will have too much recharge (Yes there is such a thing!).
I need to do all the maths before I say more, but I need to make a decision on Ageless vs Barrier because the builds will be so different.
I think for the sake of fairness I won't change the competition rules no matter what I decide, but if I opt for Ageless then I am likely to be able to meet all the goals a lot easier than if I pick Barrier, but I will lose out in pet survivability so am still not sure.
Either way, I made a build of my own by switching Wolf Spider Armor for Combat Training: Defensive (And I don't know how I didn't spot that before making this thread lol) which meets all my must have's, but not the nice to have's:
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.954
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Second Gunman: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Soldier
Primary Power Set: Crab Spider Soldier
Secondary Power Set: Crab Spider Training
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Single Shot -- Achilles-ResDeb%(A), Decim-Acc/Dmg(31), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(33), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33)
Level 1: Crab Spider Armor Upgrade -- GA-3defTpProc(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(3), S'fstPrt-ResKB(5)
Level 2: Burst -- Achilles-ResDeb%(A), Apoc-Dmg(7), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(27), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(29), Apoc-Dam%(31)
Level 4: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(34)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(7)
Level 8: Heavy Burst -- Achilles-ResDeb%(A), SDoArach-Rchg/DmgFear%(9), SDoArach-Acc/Dmg(9), SDoArach-Dmg/Rchg(11), SDoArach-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SDoArach-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 10: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(11), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 12: Venom Grenade -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(19), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(21), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(23)
Level 14: Bayonet -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(15), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(15), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), T'Death-Dam%(42)
Level 16: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(17), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(34)
Level 18: Frag Grenade -- Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(23), Posi-Dmg/Rng(25), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25), Posi-Dam%(27)
Level 20: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Tactical Training: Leadership -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(45), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(45), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(46), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(46), GSFC-Build%(46)
Level 24: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 26: Fortification -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(34), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg(37), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Aegis-ResDam(42)
Level 28: Serum -- Panac-Heal/Rchg(A)
Level 30: Combat Training: Defensive -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Omega Maneuver -- Posi-Dmg/Rchg(A)
Level 35: Summon Spiderlings -- C'Arms-Acc/Rchg(A), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg(36), C'Arms-Dmg/EndRdx(36), C'Arms-+Def(Pets)(36), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), C'Arms-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Call Reinforcements -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-+Res(Pets)(39), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(39), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), S'bndAl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), EdctM'r-PetDef(40)
Level 41: Web Envelope -- Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(A), Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob(42), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(43), Enf'dOp-Immob/Rng(43), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(43), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob(45)
Level 44: Shatter Armor -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Summon Blaster -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(48), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(48), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), S'bndAl-Dmg/Rchg(50), SvgnRt-PetResDam(50)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 0: Born In Battle
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: Marshal
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
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Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(3)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-End%(5)
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Quote:There has only been one real changeOriginally Posted by vernichterhelge
after all these changes from the initial post i am out and wont post a build
If you can keep the powers (Which I think your build did?) then the win is yours. I hope you post it again because I really want to look at what you posted and didn't get chance at work.