PC_guy

not really sure what you're getting at since DR effects literally everything not just stacked buffs. I really don't know where pver's get the idea that DR would only effect stacked buffs.

and it wouldn't suprise me since that would be enough for a signed NDA (like ED did) and would counter balance all the incarnate stuff from making pve even more easy than it already is.

now just think if they add DR to pve like some people think they will, you'll have to deal with that all the time

I don't think theres a point anymore.

im sure they'll give the same "no comment" dance that they did at SDCC.

No.

what made pvp worth it back then that is different from today? the overall scheme of pvp hasn't chagned. and more importantly why does it matter how long you've been playing again?

No one is arguing that pvp on triumph has never been all the big.you're not telling anyone anything they don't already know.

No one is arguing that badgers should be expected to pvp(although they themselves should expect something going into a pvp zone). the OP was more me being bored than gloating about harassing badgers.

we were arguing that the "elite class" has long since left and anyone pvping now is fail pvping. and that people ignore pvp because they have no idea what they're doing and don't want to invest the time or inf in the quagmire that is pvp. people who don't pvp because of the "attitude of the elite class" in terms of QQ towards them, is their own fault. you have an ignore function, use it. people who don't pvp because of the "attitude of the elite class" in terms of just better tactics, well, good news, most of the old tactics people used are now abolished because the devs catered to the casual pvper in i13 to fix those things despite breaking everything else.

because there is a possibility that i20 will have DR and pve people either not know what it is or not thinking its that bad despite pvp being what it is.

well yea but the -fly protection helps alot

ironically, I would slow myself more if I attacked you then if you used a slow power on me. and if you get slowed, you still can avoid with SJ.

also note that a large reason no one takes fly is because of all the -fly powers around.
it also used to be very slow but i'd imagine that since the fly speed increase that isn't as much of an issue anymore.

but, for example, PB nova's are very successful in zones.

perhaps, but that was to be expected. if they did a massive change like that to any portion of the game, rational though of that player base would be stunned for an extended period of time in place of phat nerdrage. that doesn't excuse the lack of support for the next 5 issues when rationalized and logical fixes/problems came up in the near future after i13. Also note that even in beta if there were some that burned bridges, there were still quite a few people who had reasonable and respectable ideas about how craptacular it was.

I don't think its about trying to get them to speak up for pvpers, its more about defeating the perception of what pver's have about pvp( I mean there have already been a few people that didn't even understand what DR was, not that they had to, but still). I mean if the large majority of the player base has those perceptions, its pretty safe to say that the devs have similair and/or the same when alot, and i do mean ALOT, of them aren't true. especially when alot of those untrue perceptions are the same that people are using to argue against changes. Although if we can get a few pver's to come to the darkside, it wouldn't hurt our chances either :P

EDITED FOR OBSIDIUS
this is probably because it was triumph RV and the majority of the people in there were using pve/unslotted builds. fly in an area where the same amount of people know what they're doing, is much harder to have success with.

I'm pretty confident in saying this.

NO ONE LIKES THE CURRENT SYSTEM. not a person. it makes no sense, it's got a ton of fun fixed bugs, it sucks.


literally no one likes the current system. there's no argument for keeping it aside from putting something else in that would take any dev time away from pve. and thats just unacceptable.

No. everything is effected by Dr.

DR is not specific to de/buffs. each attribute has a certain value and after that value, you gain less for what you put in (the bungie cord analogy was much better than my own)

this has less to do with DR (actually it has nothing to do with DR) and has more to do with the mez system that is just as broken. you're getting holds on you, they just don't do anything or only hold you for 2 seconds and aren't noticed, or if the person using the hold is good at pvp, you'll get held for 5-8 seconds with absolutely nothing to do about it. brilliant really.

diminishing returns is essentially that. literally everything that happnes to your character hits a "wall" so to speak after a certain point. so for instance, a 25% tohit buff (note: of any kind, tactics, BU, aim, the source doesn't matter) might not be affected by DR but in the current system if you had 50% it might hit the wall around 35 and the final number might only be 39 (also note these are completely fabricated numbers only to show an example). But, assuming its a direct port, DR effects everything that happens to your character and effects each attribute differently, (the numbers used on defense, rech, and damage buffs aren't all using the same modifier, and they're AT specific, as well, the only chart we have to show the current way Dr curves things, is one arcana made when i13 came out that is ridiculously complicated).

the best worst case i've seen is SR. right now an SR scrap can pretty easily softcap with normal defenses, a few io set bonuses, weave ect. and hit somewhere around 45 to positional. with DR that would go down to around the low 30's and would require roughly 70ish percent in unDR'd defense to hit 45ish in DR'd defense. any buff after the wall, note again, source doesn't matter, will get DR'd.

doesn't make the pve game AI any less borderline paraplegic.

like i said,the difference between the two is, you can badge with an AR/ice blaster or an emp/psi defebcer.

and badges doesn't involve things actively not trying to die/kill you.

you do realize that this effects everyone not just soft capped blasters right? as is, a soft capped blaster will DR to around the high 20s and a scrapper and tank Dr to somewhere in the 35% range. also note that it would effect everything and is completely inconsistent in how much it hits some stuff. for instance, HP or recover, while DR'd some, isn't DR'd to the same extent as say, damage or defense buffs. this would also make perma PA/hasten/dull pain builds, not perma and alot less effective.

my point being that DR would need alot of work to be implemented as a good thing. if it was a direct port, it would be extremely inconsistent and effect everything the player gets, not just defense.

true, but that isn't because badgers and pvpers don't get along.

interesting seeing as how i just did it this morning

this, has absolutely nothing to do with why pvp is dead. it is just the reason badgers hate going into pvp zones.

Sorry you are incorrect. it was the PvP crowd asking for changes, got stuck with i13, had a massive uprising because they were crap changes and their feedback givin during the beta wasn't listened to, read the lighthouse post saying that i13 wasn't for pvpers, then ragedquit. i guaran-damn-tee that the pvpers didn't ask for i13 changes.

DR being implimented could cause a number of different things. if its a straight port from the pvp version, this is a critical nerf for buffers and defense based toons. even if the incarnate stuff puts you back at your current level your characters are on now, it would make getting up to that point much much more painful.

No they didn't. everyone you just described as "people asking for what they got" were the stupid people who would wander into an zone once in a six month time period or badgers going into pvp zones and complaining because they didn't know how to play and react. hence the dumbing down of i13 and who the devs came out and said I13 was for. the /nerdrage was expected because the changes weren't for them and literally made no sense and had absolutely no logic behind them. porting them to pve, I think, would cause a much much larger disruption. and phat lulz.

the difference being, you can badge with an AR/ice blaster or an emp/psi defebcer.

and badges doesn't involve things actively not trying to die/kill you.


perhaps, but I'll take the cluster **** that happens basically 24/7 over the 2v2/4v3 that happens maybe once a month.

besides, freedom rv is just abunch of downie regin's and stalkers that trow sharks before ASing. its pretty crazy how much of a joke zone pvp has become, its not hard to get killz in there.