Oedipus_Tex

I'm actually going to disagree slightly here: I think Force Field is one of the biggest design hurdles in the game precisely because it is so iconic. Force Field presents a challenge because it's a support role mostly defined by it's ability to cast a specific type of Mage Armor. In most games, those sorts of powers are secondary or tertiary functions of a character and not a prime ability. I think that if the genre enabled it, CoX designers would likely have bypassed attempting to create a Force Field powerset at all, simply because it's a set that enforces a rule that shield-other type powers need to be very strong in order to justify existence of the set.

[ADDENDUM: I'll add that, while we're generally discouraged from talking about other games, the "force field" like powers used in a few other RPGs that prevent all damage until a certain number of HP run out is a model that is sadly absent from CoX but would make FF a lot easier to implement.]

Unrelated to the post quoted above, IMO this is a pretty easy game and excessive min/maxing is likely to dissappoint you. However I think that this is different from saying that set balance completely doesn't matter. The reason I asked for (and still want to see) videos of people using Force Field's specific knockback powers effectively is not because I don't believe its possible to, say, knock something back into an Earthquake, but because I doubt in the majority of cases that doing that is the best action the character could take. The very first question I have is where is this Controller's hold power in this equation? Because a Controller using Force Bolt instead of a Hold is on anything but a boss is wasting time. And why throw an enemy back into Earthquake if you could have held it? That is something a video will show that a board conversation never will.

If we want to argue that Force Field's powers are "fun" I don't disagree with that, but then so is applying tactics that make sense. And when it comes down to Force Field's powers versus Aid Self or Assault or Recall Friend, Force Field comes up wanting. Especially when the argument turns, as it always does, into a statement that FF's knockback actually IS as good as these powers if only people take the time to learn how to use them or stop min/maxing so much. While excessive min/maxing will leave you disappointed, IMO avoiding min/maxing should not mean completely jettisoning any kind of strategy.

I still do play Force Field. But does it need a buff? Hell yes. Until then, the enemy-affecting powers on my FF characters exist on alternate "costume" builds and my "real" builds take something that is actually effective. As infrequently as I use these powers no one would likely notice a difference.

I hate to be the arbiter of logic, but since all subscribers are now granted GR for free, there is nothing violated. You need conditions 1 and 2 to be settled to access incarnate content, and any subscriber meets those conditions.

The fact that the game is now free does not mean you get all the benefits of a subscriber. Going Rogue did not, even in the most extraneous way, indicate that you would have access to Incarnate content in perpetuity. In fact, absolutely everything related to Going Rogue made the opposite claim: if you stop paying you get nothing. The fact that you can now get more than nothing is not a violation of the terms of the original agreement in any logical sense.

The same can be said for them because they are all examples of the original purchase being modified. The game sold to players stated expliclitly that it required fees to play. You cannot backtrack now and call it false advertising because perpetual access to game features was never for sale.

If the developers had taken the AE and incarnate content away from SUBSCRIBERS the conditions of the box would be violated. It does not matter what the box said it gave you because the condition of the box was that you had to pay a fee to access it. It never, ever, ever made any promises about what you would get if you stopped paying, so this entire conversation is ridiculous.

No, it's the horrific slotting I see in board posts. But I also think leveling up in this game is way more complicated than most others and the decisions that need to be made are more challenging.

Their advertising and web site said that purchasing Going Rogue provided access to a game you had to pay a fee to play. It made exactly zero promises about what you would get if you bought the expansion and stopped paying for it.

I really hope that's true. I assume the statement was taken out of context or supposed to be a joke.

I would love APP power customization. But if nothing else just getting rid of Hasten's costume ruining graphics.

Like I noted in the other thread, if someone is actually serious about needing to know when another player fires Hasten, they will be disappointed to learn you can occlude Hasten's graphics entirely with hand auras, and even fake it exactly using the Fire aura colored orange on the hands so that no one ever knows if you have it active. Are there a whole lot of PVPers doing this for the visual advantage? I seriously doubt it.

PS I wouldn't lose any sleep over the death of that screeeeeee sound effect either. I think its the sound effect that I hear repeated more than any other in the game when there is a crowd around, and its like nails on a chalkboard.

I'm pretty sure everyone here is tired of the two of us fighting like an old married couple, so I will drop the argument as well. Believe it or not despite everything I actually kind of like you, so no hopefully I haven't said anything too abrasive.

However, one last nettle: you are dead, dead wrong about Repulsion Field. And if you want my responses to things you posted about Storm, go back and read what I had already written in this thread, for Bonfire read what I is posted in my guide which calls it a very good power. But I do not subscribe to the idea that all knockback powers are identical for the same reason I wouldn't pay attention if someone said all attack powers are the same. I would gladly trade Force Bolt or Repulsion Field for Bonfire or Hurricane.

It's a little unfair of me to mention this, but you're begining to give me flashbacks about the last time you yelled at me about Force Fields. That would be the one where you said AoE shielding was bad for the game and would never happen because casting individual buffs was critical to the strategy and balance of shield buff sets, and the developers changed the powers right in the middle of the debate. Good times.

But more seriously, if knockback is so great, why isn't everyone clamoring to take Whirlwind? You can talk all you want about Repulsion Field being a great power, but when its sitting there for anyone to take and no one does, I require a bit more documentation than just saying it's effective. If it is such a great power, Cold Dominators could just take it out of the travel pool. But they don't, because it isn't.

Actually one of the problems is it leads to arguments like this one where it is claimed that with infinite skill you can accomplish infinite things.

The specific reason I want a video is I want to see what happens for true believers. If they do a grand slam, that's motivation for me to learn how to do it. If, as I suspect, what they produce is as paltry as "sometimes you can knock a boss backwards twice in a row which is faster than a temp power even though it does one eighth as much damage" then my point has been illustrated that these powers are costume accessories. I have no problem with costume accessory powers, only with preposterous claims backed by insults about other players skill level, mind set, or dedication.

I also can't help but wonder why, if Repulsion Field is indeed a worthy power, an exact clone of it is allowed to exist in a travel pool. Maybe almost everyone is a terrible player and only a select few can unlock the magic. :P

What you are seeing from me is honest doubt that Force Field's knockback is a useful tool worthy of eating up build slots for something other than costume reasons. If Force Field's KB powers were free powers I probably would use them from time to time. But when they eat up a slot in a build and I have a choice between Force Bolt and Tactics, Repulsion Field and Weave, Force Bubble and Aid Self, Detention Field and Recall Friend, Repulsion Bomb and taking 5 powers out of the APP, these powers are too hard to justify. And IMO they shouldn't be. My original point was that FF is known as a "buff" set when in fact it has as many assault powers as Cold Dom and Time. I stand by my assertion that until I see an actual video of someone rocking the knockback in this set in a manner that rivals these sets, FF is struggling.

I apologize for assuming you are against buffs to the set. However, I still want to see a video showcasing the alleged talents of FF's knockback. I said earlier that Storm Summoning actually can leverage its KB powers. I find the Repel in Hurricane legitimately useful--although in part because it comes packing additional debuffs. With Force Field I keep hearing about how "skilled" users can make the knockback and repels shine, but I have never seen anyone do it. I went into my Pinball Blizzard character wanting to do something like that, built up on the reassurances of people saying that all KB takes is talent.

I am not the best player in the game, but I like to think I'm not terrible. And for all my trying, I have never been able to come up with a strategy for FF that uses its numerous knock and repel powers in a way that is better than the alternative of just replacing them. I am not against knockback--I would love to have an excuse to use it. If I could throw an AV or other serious threat on its butt occasionally while its purple triangles were still up then I would use Force Bolt. If Force Bubble had some purpose besides scattering enemies and aggroing the whole map on the weakest defended team member I might use that as well. But until these powers work on enemies that aren't handled much more efficiently using other means, IMO they are costume accessories.

I have a very high tolerance for weaker-than-normal sets, and still play FF despite its limitations, but I also have an eye for realism. It is not that players are simply bad at knockback or too lazy to figure out how to work it. Its that at best FFs knockback is a small advantage. The secret trick does not exist. It is easy to talk about how FFs knockback is an amazing tool that can accomplish great things on par with what is available elsewhere, and something else to actually demonstrate it. And since no one can produce a video showcasing the effectiveness of its techniques, I'm inclined to believe they are the same kind of board swaggery as posts touting the effectiveness of "pure healers."