Nyx

I get what you are saying, but when I and the onther 2 controllers, the defender and the corr are the main people going to the hospital, and I know, cuz I see em, all there, it's just my thought process that the popularity of the other AT's is the resistance they have and their HP.

It's not that we are built wrong, we have just built for our AT, and I as a forcefielder have the luxery of expanding my defenses and my HP because of IO set bonuses, while others might not be able too as well.

I think the issue of one AT over another is that if a Tank or Scrapper gets the job done, they get a pet, an AOE, heavy debuffs and others neato stuff.

Now, if you have an Illusion/Rad, you get 2 pets, and debuffs. So if you think about it, if you want more bang for your buck it only makes more sense to take said tank and give them that Ill/Rads benefits. The tank now has the same abilities it always had and the survivability, but now it completely outshines the Ill/Rad in man ways.

I know you! We used to play on that other MMO together. I recognize the sig.

I was Mephitidae...The Skunk Girl!

You might not remember me...I was just hoping.

I went by Rhiss.

I agree...and it's a tactic I have used. FB draws a lot of aggro. Results in one dead hot chick. Even though I considder her very very non squishy for a troller.

However, this will be soon tested as I have changed my IO's to offer more range defense. Even though this is a good tactic...I feel I would bring more to a team as a non squishy.

I did a poll in my super huge super SG, and most people who do the trials are scrappers or tanks. We are a little blue heavy...which makes sense in many ways.

Most everyone chooses something survivable because it's a gauntlet style fornat. I think many people try to speed it, and unfortunately that only works with animate walls, but all rules go out the window when you have a team or league of of melee resist, because the conribution they offer is damage.

From my observation i'ts what you kill or help kill. Me force bubbling is awesome, but because there is little to no damage the equasion drops wont happen for me, healers, support classes in general.

so, my place on a team is control, which Ill do to allow the team to plow through, but at the end of the day, if I am not getting rewards for my contribution then their is litterally no reason to participate at all.

If what I do does not earn me something that I need to spend time doing so others reap rewards that I would love to have, Ill just end up feeling cheated while the other replace what I bring to the team because they have the DPS or HP to do it.

Which is sad because I never considdered COX a game of HP.

This is the most important thing you said in this statement. A) because it's clear and no one can switch your words around, and B) because it's actually true.

There is a mix of people out there who like to run TF's at normal speed and there are those who like to run it at a high speed rate. It's because they want the rewards, but might also have time constraints.

TF's and large scale events are wonderfull additions, but when nearly all of the other content requires the eventual completion of some of these time consuming things, it bottle necks even casual players into participating to gain rewards.

This is both good and bad because sometimes these players learn to enjoy these events, and the bad part is that sometimes it does the complete opposite.

I ran a Numina, and I swear to which ever deity you pray too that Id rather stick a fork in my eye then ever do it again. It's not a task force it's a load screen nightmare.

I think, if I am understanding Sam, is that in the original content the AT's brought something to the table. And if you were good at your job, you would get notice or recognition, a friend invite and have someone to group with later on in both TF's or general content. Much of this has been removed with the the new Incarnate Powers, but more so for casual players who cannot complete as well as the hardcore, on the game all the time crowd.

That does not mean the hardcore folks should be penalized, but they all should recognize that the elements that made the game effective for such a long time have changed and while some like these changes many people also do not.

I am at this point in the middle. I have one toon incarnated (Not with all the bells and whistles mind you), and IOed, and Ill tell you straight up that was time consuming and not the most interesting part of the game I enjoy playing.

Multi-Group combat systems are wonderfull, but the concern I have is the Multi-Group aspect. League would imply one massive body, as opposed to 4 groups of 8, which is unruly, and while it allows for a team leader, it's mucky, clunky and ineffective.

It's not for everyone, but one should not exclude themsleves from it, just like no one should force someone to do something they are not interested in.

But if we are discussing fun factor, then you are opening yourself up to subjective responces and guess what? You might not always like the answers others give you. You might also not like the fact that the reasons someone gives you for their distaste or love of these recent changes seem trivial to you. But at the end of the day it really does not matter, because no one has given reason as to why anyones oppinions is wrong, without giving an unbiased look at their argument in the first place.

Arguments like.

~Leagues happen all the time in comix (Worst Argument by the way)
~Adapt or Quit!
~I like it, so you're wrong
~I hate it, so you're wrong
~If you want to advance you need to do it, so suck it up

Really don't address the fun factor for people. As a Casual gamer, Ill just say that I have done a few of these trials, and Ill choose a TF (Except Numina, cuz I really dont want to put a fork in my eye) over a trial.

Point I was making, regardless of frequency, is that in these trials I see the melee resist or defense bases crowd being the ones who can obtain with the best results, tank mage status. If you offer everyones tricks to everyone, then the logical decsion is to incarnate something with more HP.

Sure your FF might not be as good as my ff, but something has to be said that when I do these run the majority is Scrappers Tanks and brutes.

So when I make my observation all I see is the less squishies (Not all but most) getting all of the goodies, and finally, after all these years, this game is HP based.

I don't care if controllers tap danced on your behind...I don't. What I am saying is that the AT structure that defined the game is comprimized ,and that...is dangerous. You wont convice me otherwise, because I have watched and beta tested too many games that died before release because of this.

You take away a mages fireball and give it to an HP warrior, and you just end up with HP fireball warriors. It's how it will be...and until this company realizes that they cannot offer powers that made AT's unique to others..then we will finally see tank mages. Which will literraly be tanks throwing fireballs.

If this sounds mean Im sorry...It's just how I do feel about these changes. It's to quick, and it's to game breaking.

I don't think it's the worst argument. Mimicing the tricks of every other AT, leaves many AT's feeling...lack lustre now. At least with the Epic pools they differ amonsgt the AT's as to keep them still in a unique flow.

This particular apsect of the game is accross the board. And while yes, you will be powerfull and feel powerfull, I never really did feel all that second string with my characters in the first place.

We now just have the issue of "One toon can do it all" which loses the unique aspects of the games design when coming up with AT's.

Thats pretty sweet.

I did play with an illusionist who made his costume look like Phantom Army which I thought was fun, but prolly been done before.

It's all good.

Villifying someone on the forum to me is like villifying the checkout lady at the super market because the store ran out of Chicken Nuggets. She could not control the chicken nugget consumption, and yet, she is the target of said Spines scrappers who like processed foods. It's not pretty, and it's not right!

Oppinions...are the new Chicken Nuggets!

I like you! You're funny!

Think of me as Geneva. I am really quite neutral to all of this and the post I found interesting in this was Nihilii's post.

It gave me something to read and helped me understand "The real difference between Trial, and non-Trial Incarnate Advancement".

Again, as for Claws, and you Sam, I am indifferent between much of that discussion. I see both your points and Im not calling out anyone. But derailing posts like Nihilii's post seems sort of a waste to me when at least I got something out of it.

I like both of you guys. Actually I have no forum dislikes and a completely empty ignore box, because frankly, Ill debate things, but Im definately not going to attack someone.

You have given me good advice in the past. Claws gave me some good advice yesterday, and Nihilii game me some data.

I just hate having to cut through a pithy rind in order to get to the fruit.

I was not speaking about you personally Claws. I just find it funny that this is all in the "For Fun" section and I see a ton of barbed arrow flinging around like a spines scrapper on autofire.

Im not taking anything personal, as I try to only speak on in game observations I see.

Just many threads are being derailed because of debates going on in other threads. Which detracts from the original question and or comentary this and other threads were focusing on.

Thats what I was getting at mainly. But I am aware thats how forums go.

Hense the reason Judgment is so desired as an option. It makes any AT an AOE monster.

However the normal AOE monsters like Corrs/Blasters/Defenders and well, anything using AOE powers, don't have the suvivability that say Tanks/Brutes/Some Scrappers and the melee set have. But AOE is now available to those AT's

Lambda especcially favors HP based toons. Others can really do well. But it's definately the same people over and over I see in that hospital.

I am glad I am not the only person seeing this.

Sure when my controller got her Psi epic pool I noticed to my amazement that I found her even more fun to play because I had some fun new flare with attacks. Psionic Tornado (Which normally I am not a fan of for some reason) under containment is really fun for me.

My concern is what you voiced, which is that when you are an AT driven game, that build it's mark on the diverse role of each AT, you remove what you created by making these AT's redundant.

On the good side it fixes the concerns of trying to find a balanced team

On the bad side it removes the need to find a balanced team. Which sounds like a half butted abswer that contradicts it's self, but if you have 8 judgement wielding, debuffing, pet calling, healing ressing tanks in a team, there really is no need for anything further.

Chewing through content now is a breeze, even if you are running a team of 36's becoming 50's because the tank is 50 and said tank has all the bells and whistles. It just plows through things.

Now Im not hating on tanks with super powers. Im using them as an example only because tanks have the HP, the defenses and survivability that others dont have. I use them as the example because when a tank steam rolls content, using mass AOE, Shield, Rezes, Heals and debuffs, you really don't need much else, because they being hearty now function beyond the scope of say a blaster with the same style of powers with all the bells and whistles from the incarnate system.

Sure my controller can hold crowds of enemies and reduce mob impact, but technically I don't even need to worry about that anymore.

It used to be that during the ITF, that when I got to the super computer the wisest action I could take was eating a purple, toggling my uber defenses and resistances and then hitting Force Bubble so people could take down the computer. Now said tactic gets little praise because someone is mad because the tank/brute...whatever cant Judgement nuke all the robots.

So the content imediately has changed and tactics have changed from what unique At's brought to the table, in order for shiny new Incarnate powers, which were earned, and are neat to replace what other folks once brought to the team.

Sorry for being long winded, but I'm giving what I think is a fair statement through observation.

But I want to make it clear that I am not opposed to the new content at all, just how it could potentially result in the game we loved for it's level of uniqueness, due to the AT niches, turning into a level of "We dont need this AT anymore"