New Dawn

You can always kind of know roughly the level of performance that you can get out of Photon Seekers if you use them within a tight bunch of mobs unlike Dark Extraction.

Dark Extraction can function amazingly and particularly well in teams. Someone else may do the tanking, aggro may never defeat them, they may last their 200s. Perfect dynamics aren't often seen though.

Solo, it depends on how good a tank mage are you? With Dwarf they're easy to keep alive but how many people would remain in just Dwarf? Or have a particularly good antagonize? Or in human can happily rely on Provoke?

Ideally Dark Extraction would produce all it can on paper and make Photons look like a piece of **** but in reality sometimes it can be the other way around. I don't know who the best person is to watch with their WS and their Dark Extractions but they would be very interesting to see. The likelihood of cone damage everytime it recharges is highly questionable, due to range and then the number of targets it will hit is also due to whats left. So outcome vs potential is way less than with Photons. That's not saying they're worse than Photons.

I can see a dynamic within a team that can work and make Dark Extractions "way out exceed" Photon Seekers just not by as much as we might like on paper. I can see how some people might get more bang for buck out of Photons solo.

I guess a Dev might concern himself with rewards/time on this. The average result being the important one. The average result might not lend itself to seeing PBs buffed.

I am a bit bemused because this is "2006" possibly before that stuff. I can't even dig up Statemans statements in 2005 or 2006. I think it was Statesman stated it, people scoffed at it, as they did with anything he said, particularly about Tanker. I put it all on excel, and supported Statesmans statement. Some people tried to compare attack chains and then gave up when they soon realised. My patience is a little bit thin when it comes to all these "hashed out before" stuff.

I am currently busy with what little free time I have testing Warshades and Peacebringers atm.

Anyone is welcome to prove that in theory they can do more total damage to the end bar versus a theoretical 16 rikti dummies with the average blasters than they could with the average scrapper. I dare say with the arrival of Mental Manipulation that things have moved on in Blasters favour but likewise Scrappers have had new sets too.

Ingame in teams Blasters get buffed, they can be superb but that isn't raw dps. The Blaster has the advantage of AoE size so ingame in teams in particular Blasters can more likely hurt more targets. All things need to be considered though. What's better to go through a solo farm with? Which would be quicker a SO'd Scrapper or SO'd Blaster? Scrapper, it will lead in raw dps, it will lead by survivability, and produce more aoes to the end bar slotted right. It's not even worth putting it on excel.

I said Raw DPS which should never be mixed up with DPS.

You can try to prove otherwise but I am telling you now that Blasters can't beat Scrappers in raw DPS.

Be.
My.
Guest.

Yeah, I could easily farm with Nova form, Flying Human form all KBs, Ground Human form all KBs and Dwarf form. With just one build and compare times. I would of been a bit patient for the macros to be fixed anyway but I'd look to do that this week. Results will work off of a percentage, one way 100% another way 20% slower etc, another way 30% slower.

No, same New Dawn. You would have to dig up where I specifically stated that Excel has all the answers if I didn't think you were joking but this does align the stars somewhat nearer to what I was saying in the beginning so let's not count chickens yet. I definitely want to see more Warshades in action. It won't be an e-peen contest, no one is under pressure to perform and results are the most important thing. Whatever setting can help get the best results is good. I do understand that playing to not only farm but try and get Dark Extraction to use cones most is a tricky thing. I am about to farm and aim to establish a technique for it right now.

Tankers? Really? I wouldn't say "need". I think the issue might simply be taunt controlling mobs inspite of a Brutes presence but it's only because Brutes can do more to get the team killed if they don't know what they're doing whilst a Tanker can't do anything about it.

What was said was that Scrappers should lead in "Raw DPS". This is not me suggesting it to anyone this is me telling you as fact but in context of other hero ATs.

An average Blaster with an SO build would be abit more burst like and out of endurance trying to keep up with an average SO Scrapper build.

Now you take a Blaster in a team condition being buffed then it's no longer Raw DPS.

It's not me suggesting, it's me telling you.

Lol I got more level 50 Blasters than anything else, crumbs wasn't expecting that XD

A pylon is a single target, how is it that a Scrapper does not lead in raw DPS with a combination of ST and AoE attacks?

Scrappers should lead in raw DPS, that can be a combination of AoE DPS and ST DPS.

Could you please clarify just for me and possibly Aett how Blasters disprove that the popularity of an AT is not an indication of an ATs relative strength but can be.

For the record I am not in total disagreement that something should be done about Blasters myself. I am sure that there is either some better idea than the current Defiance or some tweaks to certain types of powers to improve self sufficiency.

One of my Scrappers has Confront to help the other ATs you call Squishies (showing that Scrappers are fine). Then she has Manuevers, Assault, Tactics and if something goes entirely wrong Vengeance whilst having very decent attacks chains and as good survivability that I can pretty much hope for. The +Dam, +Tohit, +Def is there. Resistance to Taunt, Placate, Confuse and Fear. Vengeance is res all effects if someone goes down. Using Confront I can make Defenders, Controllers, Corrupters, Masterminds, everyother AT come to think of either safe or unnecessary.

To me the Scrapper is already there. The Criticals are absolutely fine an inherent as is. It's laughable to try and make them into something of a Unicorn when they are already a Stallion.

The Shield has an enviable Taunt Aura, combined with the damage buff from AAO it can lift your threat quite reasonably well, but what you are using as an example is just a small corner of the game. I like my Scrappers to tank everything from level 10 and beyond, no exceptions. On the server I am from I have converted many Scrappers and Tankers into taking the power. With Tankers, unaided I tank what they can not and that's enough. With Scrappers, it could be saving their controller, it could be tanking the whatever. On so much can the need for anyother AT be eliminated. You can do all that Scrappers are meant to do with one Scrapper or you can leave out confront because you have no idea of how not to build/live without combat jump or something stupid like that.

Placate is alright on a Stalker but on a Scrapper its just Chicken.

One of the confronts is called Warriors Challenge. It compels a target to have no choice but attack you. Which is not Chicken.

I have just had confirmation that the Scrapper with the highest DPS on the Rikti Pylon Challenge did happen to have Confront.

Which means quite frankly not only could it do wonderful DPS but I'd tank the snot out of the game with it.

Win/Win

Gamers just have to use their noddle. People from other not too dissimilar games, table top games. They can read the figures, get the idea for themselves and seeing as your on Freedom turn into one of the best farmers ingame within a week, just ask my nephew :P

I should be able to trace you ingame unless you're on hide or somit XD

I'm trying to get an idea of the average output of Dark Extraction can I watch you farm.

It's not just a kill zone, its a flexibly laid out one with an expiration time that allows you to pretty much do what you need. It's a trapping concept, it's a gadget concept. If they did change it to a drop 3 with almost no interrupt the expiration time could be lost. Overtime I have seen plenty of people love their mines so anything that changes that has to be suitable.

Yes you are the satisfied with the big crutch type obviously. A smart player would identify and anticipate when someone else will be compriomised about them and act on it instantly, and by using confront will more than anyother likely guarantee a challenge accepted. It pays to have confront in a PvP team by a huge amount too, you taunt the tank, freeing up the tank in your team to go do something about the gankers. It can be the same with AVs that fear mainly. An AV could be dealing a particular mezz type a Tanker isn't built to resist but your Scrapper is, whilst a Tanker is Black Holed there is no telling whether or not the Tankers duration is long enough and a couple of confronts to protect the team could be nice. I never do the getting of certain support sets for a team, everything I need is basically everywhere.

I am going to be rough on selfish builds in future and support the non selfish ones only. The Scrappers I see pushing their boundaries might find themselves over and over their heads more. If they can't bring anything to the team other than their own ego then sod them.

Either you do have a short memory or are just being rude. You mentioned /Dev blaster in PvP.

I quote " /dev blasters might gain an attack more effective than dropping caltrops and webgrenade then running away to fight at range ?"

Which is actually quite considering you've had a /Dev for several years. To which I replied about dropping a Firetank in PvP, yet you thought it was an example of bad PvP, I guess as it wasn't caltrops and webgrenade then running away to fight at range.

I'll be honest, I had to ask how long you've had your /Dev as I wasn't sure if you had one at all.