MrMotivator

looks pretty sorted to me.

only changes i'd have would be slotting char over fire blast.. purely cause i find the ranged hold handy for sappers and the like, but i guess BU and nrg transfer deals with em nicely anyway.

oh, and i'd be tempted to stick an end redux in fireball. the end cost on that is quite painful...

Bondage Girl:
Natural Tanker,
Ice/Fire/Pyre

also from my sg recently dinged:
shadowvamp, blaster
Fire/Fire/Fire

well. i have an ice/fire, and i wouldn't waste a power on taunt if you paid me... Chilling embrace, icicles, combustion, FSC and fireball do enough taunt to keep a small army in check.

by the same token, i have actually recently made an inv/nrg tank.. and at lvl 5 it is finding aggro management a serious issue. Having a very early, and very good, taunt aura with ice has spoiled me somewhat. i feel like i shouldn't NEED taunt, but when it comes down to it my tank can't hold aggro without it at the moment. So i will definately be taking it on this new tank.

back to the general debate. some tankers can tank all day without taunt, and you'd never notice. others... less so. it's a personal choice, and imho there is no right or wrong answer.

well, my ice/fire/fire got her 50 last week.. and i can safely say that endurance is a ****, especially with fireball.

i have 3*dam 1*acc 1*end 1*rech in each AoE and have 3*dam 2*acc 1*end in the single targets. I also have less end redux in the shields than you, as they do relatively little end compared to the attacks and icicles/CE

icicles: 2*acc 2*dam 2*end

CE: 2*end 2*taunt

NRG absorbtion 2*end 3*rech 1*def.

i chose to slot char rather than fire blast. fire blast does about as much damage as scorch afaik, and char is incredibly useful for sappers, and with 2*rech 2*hold it can happily stack with iteslf for holding EBs. Personally i went cj, sj, hasten rather than hasten, ss, hurdle, cause cj gives a def boost.

lastly, as far as PvP is concerned. with its current build it can take down 'squishy' toons with relative ease. the only zone PvP i've done with it has been vs brutes, which have all ended in a no-score-draw. obviously, fire melee isn't great for PvP, but if you fancy giving it a go; drop icicles, get aid self, drop combustion, get foc acc and conserve power for epics, take fire sword... stick an extra end mod in NRG absorb... and take lots of red insps with you.

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Well, if a fire tank went for all his armours and only one or two attacks from his primary, I think it's safe to assume he's a tanker. Likewise if he chose all his (or most) of his primary and very few secondaries - Its safe to assume he's a scranker. IMO all stone tanks are scrankers...uber scrankers.

Ripped if ya cant make sense out of that, then you will understand how i feel about your words.


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yeah i think he mis-typed that lol.

tank = many defences, limited attacks
scrank = limited defences, many attacks

is what i think is the general gist. and yes, by those standards, fire tanks are naturally more scrank-oriented.

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as far as pools go, dont get weave. but tough is very useful.. even for 'scranker' builds. stamina and acrobatics are MUST HAVE powers tho imo

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Can you show me what a scranker fire/fire tank looks like pls.

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lol i'm not gettin into that, hence why i put it in inverted commas. by 'scranker' i mean a tank who focuses more on offence than defence. and that is all.

fire sword does just sorta appear in ur hand.. but, imo FSC is the best power in fire melee. get it =D GFS is also very nice damage for bosses/AVs.

as i said, i'd choose breath over FS anytime. If it hits two targets, you're quids in. breath uses less end than 2*FS, breath does more damage per target than 2*FS, and has a faster recharge than 2*FS attacks.

obviously the more bad guys you hit, the better off you are. PLUS it has range so if you love herding, like me, you can hit someone at the back of the mob with it without having to jump over the whole mob to get to him.

right, ignoring all the tanker/scranker fighting going on, and getting back on topic. i don't have a fire/fire, but i have an ice/fire tank and a dark/fire brute, so i know both powersets independently

i noticed you use a lot of end redux's, so i've tried to keep a few in... .using the powers you listed earlier (personally i'd swap fire sword for breath of fire. but i like cone attacks), here's how i'd slot em:



Fiery Aura
Fire Shield: Dam Res(3), End Reduc(1)
Blazing Aura: Dam Enhanc(2), End Reduc(1), acc(2), taunt(1)
Healing Flames: Heal(3), Recharge(3)
Plasma Shield: Dam Res(3), End Reduc(1)
Fiery Embrace: Recharge(3)
Rise Of The Phoenix: Recharge(1)
Consume: End Mod(2), Recharge(2), Acc(2)

Fiery Melee
Scorch: Dam Enhanc(1)
Fire Sword: End Reduc(1), Dam Enhanc(3), Acc(2)
Fire Sword Circle: End Reduc(1), Dam Enhanc(3), Acc(1), recharge(1)
Incinerate: End Reduc(1), Dam Enhanc(3), Acc(1), recharge (1)
Greater Fire Sword: End Reduc(1), Dam Enhanc(3), Acc(1), redharge(1)
Combustion: End Reduc(1), Dam Enhanc(3), Acc(1), recharge(1)


as far as pools go, dont get weave. but tough is very useful.. even for 'scranker' builds. stamina and acrobatics are MUST HAVE powers tho imo

that's about it. as far as epics go, i've seen some tanks not take them, and others seem to go for either fire or ice... with my ice/fire tank i'm going to get pyre mastry so i can get fireball.. but fire/fire tanks get an extra build up (fiery embrace) so the extra damage may be overkill lol

i have neither in my ice tank as she is at the moment, and can happily solo missions on invincible without. personally, i'd take stimulant/aid self over box/tough/weave.

theres actually a lot of builds posted in the 'ice man rocketh' thread below this one.

my rough slotting is:

frozen armour 3*defBuff 1* endRed
hoarfrost 3*recharge 3* heal
Chilling embrace 1* taunt 1*endred (some people put slows in there too, but that only affects their run speed)
wet ice 1*endRed
permafrost... dont take it
icicles 3*dam 1*acc 2*endRed
glacial armour 3*defBuff
Energy Absorbtion 2*RecREd 2*EndMod 2*DefBuff
Hibernate 2*recRed


but i'd suggest you look at the ice man rocketh thread, some good discussion in there if u ignore all the arguing about granite armour which somehow found its way in there

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Also, I am playing an ice tank to see what the fuss is about and I must admit one thing: my granite tank is a HELL of a lot of work in missions compared to the ice.

Ice tanks rocketh.

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edited for accuracy

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Ice/Fire Tank - considerable changes since he started out life in I3 as pretty much the only Ice tank on Defiant.

Built as an offensive meat shield, aggro control is supplemented by two high damage AoE attacks in addition to Icicles from the primary.

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name: Spad
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Ice Armor
Secondary: Fiery Melee
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Frozen Armor==> EndRdx(1) EndRdx(3) DefBuf(3) DefBuf(19) DefBuf(19)
01) --> Scorch==> EndRdx(1) Acc(5) Dmg(5) Dmg(7) Dmg(17)
02) --> Hoarfrost==> Rechg(2) Rechg(7) Rechg(9) Heal(9) Heal(11) Heal(11)
04) --> Combustion==> EndRdx(4) Acc(13) Dmg(13) Dmg(15) Dmg(15) Rechg(17)
06) --> Wet Ice==> EndRdx(6) EndRdx(50)
08) --> Air Superiority==> EndRdx(8)
10) --> Chilling Embrace==> EndRdx(10)
12) --> Taunt==> Rechg(12)
14) --> Fly==> Fly(14) Fly(21) Fly(48)
16) --> Swift==> Run(16)
18) --> Health==> Heal(18) Heal(21) Heal(23)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(25) EndMod(27)
22) --> Glacial Armor==> EndRdx(22) EndRdx(23) DefBuf(25) DefBuf(27) DefBuf(29)
24) --> Hasten==> Rechg(24) Rechg(33) Rechg(34)
26) --> Icicles==> EndRdx(26) Acc(33) Acc(33) Dmg(34) Dmg(36) Dmg(40)
28) --> Energy Absorbtion==> DefBuf(28) DefBuf(29) DefBuf(31) Rechg(31) Rechg(36) Rechg(36)
30) --> Fire Sword Circle==> EndRdx(30) Acc(31) Dmg(34) Dmg(37) Dmg(37) Rechg(37)
32) --> Aid Other==> IntRdx(32)
35) --> Incinerate==> EndRdx(35) Acc(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(42) Dmg(43) Rechg(43)
38) --> Greater Fire Sword==> EndRdx(38) Acc(39) Dmg(40) Dmg(40) Dmg(42) Rechg(42)
41) --> Aid Self==> IntRdx(41) IntRdx(43) IntRdx(46) Heal(46) Heal(48) Heal(48)
44) --> Char==> EndRdx(44) Acc(45) Hold(45) Hold(45) Hold(46)
47) --> Build Up==> Rechg(47) Rechg(50) Rechg(50)
49) --> Hibernate==> Rechg(49)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Run(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Acc(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
01) --> Gauntlet==> Empty(1)
01) --> Power Slide==> Empty(1)
---------------------------------------------

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that's pretty much where my ice/fire is aimed, with only a few changes. most immediately noticeable defensive slotting difference is chilling embrace. i've got that slotted for 3*slow, 2* taunt, 1* end red atm to give more damage mitigation.

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ok... granite armour is ONE armour, STONE is the powerset... i know what you mean when you say 'granite tank' but it's almost as irritating to me as people calling themselves 'healers'

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Yes, I know what you mean. But to me there is a difference between a Stone Tanker and a Granite Tanker. The Stone Tanker is the one who doesn't Respec most of his other primary powers out of his build once he's got Granite Armour. The Stone Tanker keeps his options open, spending probably the majority of his time in the other armours, and uses Granite as his version of Unstopable - for those extreme cases where it is better to sacrifice all his attack potential in order to be the most resilient force known to any team.

The Granite Tanker is the one who pretty much lives in granite form, and has taken pool powers such as hasten, swift (slotted for speed), etc because he intends to spend all of his time in granite form. He ditches most other armours from his build, sometimes all other armours, in order to take more attack powers instead, to get around the -recharge penalty by simply having more attacks in his chain.

That latter form of Granite Tanker has little understanding of the huge array of tactical opportunities available to a real stone tanker, and has limited himself, and his team, in order to be a one trick pony, largely dependant on buffs and pool powers just to get by. He's a Granite Tank.

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all i said was that it irritates me.. i am fully aware of why people make the distinction. but you could say the same about empath vs 'healer'/'pure empath' both of which are bandied around a lot. both are absolute rubbish, and insulting to anyone who has an empathy defender.

by the same token i'm sure theres quite a few good stone tanks out there who use GA, but who would hate to be likened to the many bad, debt dodging, 'granite' tanks out there...

ok... granite armour is ONE armour, STONE is the powerset... i know what you mean when you say 'granite tank' but it's almost as irritating to me as people calling themselves 'healers'...

in fact, i don't see how any tank requires less or more skill to play than any other tank type, each has it's own play style and niche it fits into. Personally i think, if anything, defence based sets would require more skill than resistance based sets, because they are less predictable...

yes, a tank with GA can survive +5s better than an ice tank can. but... lets be honest here.... the maximum diff you can set your mishs to is invincible, so unless you're leeching in someone else's missions there is NO NEED to be fighting +5s. I must say, i have seen a lot of stone tanks do this: "bah they're only +7's i don't need sk!'.. but they cant taunt or punch the bad guys for ****, so what you end up with is a very surviveable, very useless team member.

yeah, i spent a good year trying to find a tank i liked... in the end i respec'd my ice/fire (who had struggled up to lvl 17 with an AoE build) to basically be a scrapper, with single target attacks, no taunt and end redux's all over the place.

i eventually managed to solo that up to 22.. the sacred level when you have stamina and SOs.. and respec'd back in the proper build, which is now amazing fun to play.

so, basically, after a year of giving up on tanks at lvl 18, i realised that you need stamina and SOs before they become fun.... don't get me wrong, they can be fun at low level too.. but they struggle to really be 'tankers' until lvl 22.

my next toon is now going to be another tank, and i know now to just persevere with it a bit longer then i used to.

i'm a bit 50/50 with regards to hibernate. the thing i dont like is that it feels like it takes soooooo long when you're stood in the middle of the mob and can't hit them cause of it. I know in reality, it's only a few seconds, but in this game a lot can happen in a matter of seconds.

hibernate, imo, is a good power. not as powerful as unstoppable or GA, but without their inherant penalties.. which puts all three on a par.

best thing about ice tanks, imo, is undeniably chilling embrace. SUCH a good power!

Hello there!

basically, my ice/fire is lvl 34 now.. and going well, it's an AoE build, and my attacks are pretty sorted. my only concern is the defense choices i have left.

I have all the ice defense set, apart from permafrost. I have stamina, health, sprint, cj and sj from pools.

my choices at 35 are:

tough (respec in kick for hibernate)
aidself (respec in stimulant for hibernate)
permafrost
hasten

i'm just in a really big quandry over which will prove more benficial to the character. i can't get another of those four options until 49 with my planned build:

32 - hibernate (can be respec'd out)
35 - ?
38 - Greater fire sword
41 - pyre mastry -> char
44 - pyre mastry -> fire bolt
47 - pyre mastry -> fire ball
49 - ?

I know i could drop my planned epics, but i want fireball

so i need to decide which two powers to fit in my two ?'s... any help would be very much appreciated.. cause i really don't know what to go for.

thanks in advance,
Mr M

ah just wait till the joyous day when you've been happily beating up bad guys, charge into some nemesis and some fool snipes one of the lieutenants you'd been saving till the end.

all of a sudden vengeance kicks in on the whole mob, and you may as well just turn off your shields and lie down.

my ice tank's embrace barely lets anything get away. its working properly as far as i can see

erm.. what sorta damage does this do?

hero builder says it is moderate damage...
from the normal window CoH says it's high damage...
but when you click on it to pick it when ur lvling up, it says minor damage..

wish someone could make up their minds lol!

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... irradiate (great def debuff BTW, and useful damage after FS) Photon Torpedo , fallout ...


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What's photon torpedo???


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proton volley i presume

yeah.. warshades are pretty darned dull until the 30's.. even double mire doesnt shine until you get eclipse.

as soon as the 30's hit though... whoa... pet, then quasar (THE best looking power in the game, and with double mire outdamages BU + Dawn Strike by miles), then eclipse - and your path to being epic is complete. I never realised what it felt to be 'epic' until i got eclipse. with a good sized mob you can stand toe to toe with the psi-clock king in nova form, without taking a dent...until it wears out at least... then you kinda go 'splat', but it's okay cause you can then self rez and go into dwarf form for a bit =D

if you want something you can go to PvP with.. pick a PB. warshades need dead bodies for a load of their powers.. something which you dont often find in PvP because they always bugger off and respawn before you've managed to fire off your pet.

on a side note.. have you ever been in an arena match with travel powers turned off and tried to use nova form? lol it just bounces slowly along the floor...

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Far more irritating is the bug where you change back to human form, form powers are marked as active (but won't work) and human form powers are unavailable. More of a problem for warshades, given that it normally happens halfway in to a double mire ... I've stopped playing my WS until that is fixed.

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thats been happening for as long as i can remember... was definately happening when i was still lvling my WS, and he got to 50 seven months or something ago...

you can still use ur human powers, they just look like u can't.

oh, i've had every attack in the set at one point or another. but i'd much rather have a power which does a tangible debuff, such as slow or end drain.. where you can SEE them running at a crawl or watch their endurance drop. thats just me i guess..

cosmic burst is the best power in the set now. it meshes well with some of the epics, and the disorient is handy. BUT that's the only reason i like it, for the disorient.

once upon a time (when my empath got to 50) rad's nuke was awesome.. 5* dam 1* end red. drop nuke and then use dark consumption (epic) on anything that survived and u'd have full end again, and 90% of the mob would be dead. the bosses would be held and the rest of team could finish them off quicky.. although, those were also the days when you could get perma-hasten and perma-RA. when you could heal a GA'd stone tank from red to full health with one hit of AP, and when AV's names were suffixed with 'Leader'.

aaaah the good old days *looks nostalgic*

sorry, i think i digressed somewhat there...

"1. AOE Heals will not root
2. Self Buffs will not root
3. Self Heals will not root
4. Everything else will."


so... pretty much every kin power will root you... except transfusion. ah well, there go my dreams of reapplying IR mid jump