Motley_Cruel

They probably are, but I was just talking about maximum potential.

The AoE part was confusing. By SD, I didn't mean soul drain, I meant Shield Defense. mah bad

I played DM for the first time after it got buffed back in issue whatever (was it 12?)
Anyway, since then I leveled a few characters with the set, and the more I played, the more I realized how ridiculously awesome it was. Not only does it have the potential for the highest DPS (due to having probably the best Build-up esque power) but it also has a strong end recovery power, Siphon Life (IMHO, one of the best attacks in the game), to-hit debuffs (including the awesome ToF), and is a relatively loose set (By 50, you only probably need S, SL, MG, SD. DC and ToF are usually optional) So as far as I can tell, the ONLY weakness DM has is the relative lack of AoE, which can be filled out with SD/APPs/PPPs (writing this from a brute perspective as well). In exchange for its AoE weakness, DM has crazy damage and is one of the most survivable sets. I generally play for concept, but I also enjoy not faceplanting, so can someone share some reasons why I would want to play any other set, other than simply for flavor?

With the Blaze Mastery Ancillary pool and a fantastic power like focus, wouldn't it be pretty easy with good recharge to make a kiting scrapper? In fact, with a combination of the knockdown of focus and knockback of shockwave, and potentially also the hold of char, couldn't you basically lock down any hard target by juggling them repeatedly and building up holds. How would the immobilize of ring of fire effect this? How viable could this combo be?

this was just an idea spawned of boredom, but the basic goal was to build a ranged stalker using focus, dark blast, shockwave, and soul storm. I haven't come up with a smooth attack chain other than one that looks like this:

F>SS>DB>Placate>F>SW>DB>F>DB>SW>SS>F>DB>SW>F>DB>F> SW>DB

which has some tiny gaps in 2 spots, and if those gaps are small enough, you could practically just go DB>F with SW and SS for flavor. I came up with a ridiculous build for this, but I'm not sure how to upload it. Has anyone actually played around with something like this?

Sorry, unclear on my part. I meant, "since the stalker version of DM uses Build Up instead of Soul Drain, it loses some damage potential. Even without this added potential, is Dark still the highest damage set?"

My shoddy wording

I actually did some number crunching and made some interesting discoveries:

1. in terms of DPS and DPA, dark blast is better than both Smite and SL

2. the MG>DB>S>SL>DB>S attack chain definitely outdamages the other one, and requires less recharge.

3. an even better attack chain (with equivalent recharge) would be MG>DB>S>DB>S
I wouldn't use this one as it marks only a small increase in DPS and a huge drop in survivability by abandoning SL, but it's still an interesting development.

Sorry for triple post

Now, I know for both Brutes and Scrappers, Dark Melee has the potential to be the highest DPS set, with Soul Drain potentially providing an epic boost. Also, the Brute version gets Gloom, which rockets its DPS even higher. I have just a few questions.

1. For Stalkers, is DM the highest DPS set, even w/o Soul Drain? (Assuming Perma-hasten)

2. Is Dark Blast part of the max DPS attack chain for DM Stalkers (I.E. MG>DB>S>SL>DB>S as opposed to MG>S>SL>S)

3. Is Dark Blast worth taking Soul Mastery over Leviathan even though Shadow Meld will probably be useless? (Planning on a /Nin or /SR)

By the way, thanks for the endurance math, Shred. Usually I'm all about the numbers, but for some reason I've never crunched end, and now you've saved me the effort

First let me just say, I know Shields has essentially usurped Fire as THE damage/AoE secondary, and that Dark/Shields is beyond godly. BUT, I have a Fire/SD that I'm leveling, and I've played a TON of Defense based secondaries lately and I'm looking for something different. I know fire is viewed as squishy, and I'm used to a relatively high platform of survivability (Think DM/SR). (Also, I assume endurance management will not be a problem)

My basic question: Can a Dark/FA be made pretty tough with the double heals, to-hit debuffs, decent resists, and some IO slotting, and still be an offensive powerhouse with Fire hopefully helping with Dark's sad lack of AoE?

I know often times you're better off slotting for set bonuses, but this was mainly just a thought experiment for times when your secondary doesn't really need a lot of help to be great (I.E. SR) or cases when global recharge isn't too big of a deal. Also some attacks are good enough that you honestly just want to get the most out of them (Like Siphon Life.) In fact, I believe I have you to thank, Werner, for my current favorite SL slotting, so props for that.

The main place this idea came up was in a build that was pretty great with minimal IOs, in this case a Dark/SR Stalker, who can be softcapped with just the Steadfast Protection unique, and doesn't gain THAT much from global recharge bonuses, and I managed to get Midnight Grasp slotted like this while still maintaining softcap, and also hitting capped HP, 350% regen, and 2 seconds off of perma-Hasten, and similar slotting in smite with a small shift to accommodate the Hecatomb proc.

One other thing I've noticed is that similar slotting works great for leveling brutes. My Fire/SD is at 30, and only has 4 slots in each of his attacks, but by slotting the four triples in each attack, he never runs out of endurance, has a very fast and cohesive attack chain, and shreds opponents. By the time he hits 40, I'll respec him and build to the softcap, but this style slotting is something I wish I had known before, as it's made leveling him much smoother and faster.

With a standard attack, enhancements are usually focused in 4 areas- accuracy, damage, recharge, and endurance. I made it my goal to see the highest values I could get for all of them in a 6 slotted attack, and I managed to pull off the same for all but ranged AOEs:

95.90 Accuracy
95.90 Damage
95.90 Recharge
95.11 Endurance

This was achieved using two quads and one of each triple. For example, for single target melee attacks, the slotting used was:

Mako's Bite: A/D/E/R
Gladiator's Strike: A/D/E/R
Gladiator's Strike: A/E/R
Gladiator's Strike: D/E/R
Crushing Impact: A/D/E
Hecatomb: A/D/R

Obviously, this is ridiculously expensive and can only be done one time thanks to the purple, but the purple can be replaced with a Crushing Impact A/D/R and those stats only lose .79% enhancement value, which is essentially unnoticeable. However, for those of you on a budget, and especially due to the rarity of PVP IOs, here's a more bank friendly slotting:

Mako's Bite: A/D/E/R
Mako's Bite: A/E/R
Crushing Impact: A/D/R
Crushing Impact: A/E/R
Crushing Impact: D/E/R
Pulverizing Fisticuffs: A/D/E/R

Which still nets you:

92.31 Accuracy
92.31 Damage
92.31 Recharge
92.31 Endurance

My query is this: Can anyone find any ways to improve slotting even further, or achieve comparable results with fewer slots?

Also, for ranged and PBAOE attacks, PVP IOs must be used due to a lack of quads (ranged) and A/E/Rs (PBAoE). PBAoEs which have a secondary effect such as To-Hit Debuff can surmount this obstacle with an A/E/R. As for Ranged AoEs... well the sets available are kind of lame, and I couldn't achieve nearly as good of numbers. Here are the slotting options for Ranged and PBAoE

Ranged:

Devastation: A/D/E/R
Gladiator's Javelin: A/D/E/R
Gladiator's Javelin: A/E/R
Apocalypse: A/D/R
Thunderstrike: A/D/E
Thunderstrike: D/E/R

PBAoE:

Obliteration: A/D/E/R
Armageddon: A/D/R
Scirocco's Dervish: A/D/E
Multi Strike: D/E/R
Fury of the Gladiator: A/D/E/R
Fury of the Gladiator: A/E/R

Also, what are the best numbers anyone has figured out for Ranged AoEs?

I've always liked the community here in Scrapperville, and you've all proven very helpful over the years, so I have a query:

IMPORTANT NOTICE: I've played SR many times and love it, and I've never played EA, so I'm not an EA fan trying to troll or start a fight. This is an honest question

I know Energy has a rep as "teh gimp" and is often viewed as a joke in comparison to other brute secondaries, but I'm not clear on why. I don't want to compare with shields, because shields is just ridiculously awesome once you softcap, but my real question is, "why is EA worse than SR?" *once you attain the softcap

Frankly, softcapping SR and EA are both ridiculously cheap and easy, even though EA is typed instead of positional. They're both cheap as heck, so that isn't an issue. (But EA has a small hole to negative, which isn't a real issue with softcap S/L)

EA costs more end, but has FAR better end management (equivalent to the old ELA) and has a minor heal, and has more resists but inferior Defense Debuff Resistance (and no scaling resists). However, EA has overload, which is WAY better than Elude, softcap or not. EA lacks a taunt aura, and has stealth, but grabbing aggro with a brute has never been tough, and you could even take taunt (it makes a great set ***** for S/L defense bonuses (especially perfect zinger))

So why do people think EA sucks?

IMPORTANT NOTICE: I've played SR many times and love it, and I've never played EA, so I'm not an EA fan trying to troll or start a fight. This is an honest question

I know Energy has a rep as "teh gimp" and is often viewed as a joke in comparison to other brute secondaries, but I'm not clear on why. I don't want to compare with shields, because shields is just ridiculously awesome once you softcap, but my real question is, "why is EA worse than SR?" *once you attain the softcap

Frankly, softcapping SR and EA are both ridiculously cheap and easy, even though EA is typed instead of positional. They're both cheap as heck, so that isn't an issue. (But EA has a small hole to negative, which isn't a real issue with softcap S/L)

EA costs more end, but has FAR better end management (equivalent to the old ELA) and has a minor heal, and has more resists but inferior Defense Debuff Resistance (and no scaling resists). However, EA has overload, which is WAY better than Elude, softcap or not. EA lacks a taunt aura, and has stealth, but grabbing aggro with a brute has never been tough, and you could even take taunt (it makes a great set ***** for S/L defense bonuses (especially perfect zinger))

So why do people think EA sucks?

Yeah, but what are those powers taking the place of? (Travel powers don't matter to me with the buyable raptor packs.)

I know. I was manually adding 2.97 defense of suppressed hide to the 42+ with hide detoggled.

Forgot to mention, I was doing this with dark as the primary, to push defense numbers even higher and for the self heal.

If you take CJ and Weave, and give Tough the Steadfast Protection Global, that's your 45% defense right there thanks to Hide. Considering how cheap and easy this is, what's the downside? (In my build, I have 2 end reducers in each toggle, an extra slot for the Kismet, room for 6 slots in health and 4 in stamina, 3 slotted Hasten, and 6 six-slotted attacks. The only thing I lack is any patron powers (which I could easily drop 2 attacks for) and a travel power (yet again, I could drop attacks)) It seems too easy to be true.

Here's the deal. I've gotten my namesake character to level 44, and I'm probably not gonna respec him again until 50. Right now he's dipped into Ghost Widow's pool for Gloom and potentially Darkest Night as well. Yesterday I was looking at mid's and looked at Mako's pool for the first time, and I noticed arctic breath.

1. I heard that gloom was part of the optimal DM/SR attack chain, but my planned build has 187.5% recharge and huge end recovery, so I could gaplessly spam MG-Smite-SL-Smite. Would this mark a huge drop in DPS?

2. I used my second build to test mako's set, and while I'm not a big fan of the 3 second animation on Spirit Shark, Arctic Breath seems like a pretty good debuff/ okay Cone blast (especially seeing as I could squeeze in a set of purps and an Achilles heel proc.) Is this trade worth it?

Note: I already am perma-softcapped with little IO slotting. Would Darkest night be worth the end cost or would I be better off taking DO (If I stick with soul mastery)

Thank you both very much.

In a lot of screenshots, I've seen a little window that gives melee, ranged, and AOE defense numbers in-game. Can someone tell me how i can get that window up?