Memphis_Bill

Please check your facts before making statements. If you are defeated, you lose your shard/code. Therefore, if you are defeated, you CANNOT complete the mission, and must start over.

If you defeat someone else DOING the mission, you are farther ahead on your own - you have advanced via PVP.

Actually, you can. Participate in the hotspots. If your side wins, 100 bounty. It's a very slow way, that gives something to do if the zone is slow. The result is still PVP-oriented, though, as it opens (or closes) the zone control (and thus the stores) for each side.

The strength of the reward, per Castle, is directly related to the risk of PVP and it being in a PVP zone.

Now go tell Castle he's wrong.

That not good enough? I can complete part of the requirements for the Shivan mission (and Warburg nukes) without ever entering into PVE combat - by stealing another player's shards or codes. How do I do that? PVP. It doesn't require a PVE mechanic at all - so by your own standard, PVP mission, PVP reward. Hell, I can let someone ELSE take the risk of taking out the firebase, kill them and get the completed shard. No PVE required *at all.* The fact you can do so without engaging another player at all is an acknowlegement that there may not BE someone else around to fight. Just think about how much fun it is when, say, the Cavern of Transcendance (8 people required) trial has someone drop or quit. It's impossible to complete. Why would they create more situations like that?

You tell someone later they're just "going LALALALALA and not listening" - sorry, but that's you. PVP content. Meant to focus players on areas, meant to reward, among other ways, by PVP. Even some of the badges are directly tied to PVP rewards (gladiators awarded.) The "PVE" missions, while you don't fight a player directly, affect the zone as a whole by buffing or debuffing one side or the other.

Ahh... did you *run* from it, or back up then restore the games, though?

Fix't.

Stalkers *could* have a use for these, if the Stalker PPP snipes were worth taking. (8 seconds? Really?)

I've suggested this in the past, as well (the OP's suggestion, that is - well, as well as the "shorten stalker snipes.") And much the same issue(s) came up - two components of it, the +range and -interrupt, would be completely disabled. Of course, except for high +per enemies, the interrupt's generally irrelevant.

I still wouldn't mind seeing it. *shrug* But I'll wait to see what the devs have up their sleeves for GR.

This.

(And I'll continue to work on drops, run AE for tickets for rare salvage I think is too expensive, and pursue alternatives for things I want.... including trading with friends - and for *0 inf* when we do so!)

Content put into a task force is, unarguably, task force content.

Content in AE is pretty bluntly AE content.

Content you can only get via events is event content.

Yet content in a PVP zone .... isn't PVP content?

Sounds double-standard-ish to me.
Edit:
Though I agree with Eva's comment: - the situation is still far more palatable than when you had to have the 5-hour-in-Siren's badge, etc. That, even as someone who *does* occasionally enjoy PVP, I felt was unfair and not well thought out. Explore badges at least can be done - even with someone else in the zone - rather quickly. I don't think even level-gating is a legitimate reason any more with the SSK/no level restrictions. (I don't think they're affected by that any more heroside, at least.)

Edit2:
Re: Lisar - Headline Stealer (Crey immobilizer ray) requires an exploration badge in BB as well, but that's the only other power-granting accolade that does.

If it's in a PVP zone, PVP is part of the expected risk to get that item or experience. Therefore it's PVP content.

My thing with badges in the zone has (IIRC) been fixed - they shouldn't have been required for accolades for one side, where the other side doesn't need them. That's really the only argument I've ever had against them being there.

Of course, we can get into "Is that really PVE content if it's in a PVP zone," which I don't think you'll ever have satisfactory answers to. Shivans and nukes, for instance, are at their current level of strength not because the PVE mobs (turrets/shivans) are difficult (they're not,) but because of the risk of PVP. If it were PVE only, they'd be much weaker, or not be renewable.

Similarly, I've seen people argue that the PVP badges - and I mean by the strictest definition, for defeating opposing players - are PVE content, which just boggles me as the only way TO get them, and the only thing they measure, are PVP activity. But I've had people who absolutely would not budge on those being PVE, because "they're badges." (Which, often it seems, end up being the same people that "have the right" to not be involved in PVP even when they're in the zone, and get highly offended that anyone would dare engage them... I wish I were exaggerating that.)

With the accolade requirements removed, I'm perfectly fine with saying "if it's in a PVP zone, it's PVP content" at this time. If there's an exception, it should be looked at (required for an accolade heroside doesn't need to enter a PVP zone for, for instance,) but "just because it's a badge" doesn't wash for me as a reason to call it PVE content. (Not saying that's your stance, either, just saying.)

See, most times I've seen that happen (someone asking, that is,) they've gotten - at worst - some good natured ribbing. (And in Siren's, someone will ask if they can kill them if they come up as bounty.) Yes, some people will be twits about it, but generally it's agreeable on either side. It's the people who come in *insisting* they be left alone, and that they have a right to be completely left out of everything PVP related, that end up in the middle of loud and long fights in broadcast and in the forums.

Eh, choice of words on my part. The point being, ask for a fight in return. I don't bother with "fiteclub" stuff - if someone wants to do it, great, but don't complain when an outsider doesn't respect your rules. Of course, mentioning it that way (duel) also implies to the other person they're not going to be the target of a 5-on-1 beatdown.

The point being - ask. And feel free to point out, afterward, what they did well, what they didn't do or could have done, and in general, *make it a pleasant experience so they aren't so unwilling to come back and fight again.* Of course, if they just don't like PVP and won't do it again - well, not much you can do about that but thank them for the fight if they gave you one. ("gf." Then explain you weren't saying anything about their girlfriend, or coming on to them.)

Edit:
Also, don't forget this IS mostly a PVE game. It launched with no PVP 'til issue 4, nothing really dedicated to it 'til COV... and you can go through the entire game without ever having to deal with it. Now, if this were Aion, I'd give you other reasons for running (my lvl 27-ish Ranger is not standing up to five or six buffed Asmodeians bearing down on her - but she'll happily eat the death and report their location, then watch as they're swarmed and killed off, then join in the hunt for their kisk.) But past a certain level, every zone has the potential for PVP. It's part and parcel of the game, unlike COH.

Er - wow.

OK, first - don't complain about having PVPers engage you in a PVP zone. It's kind of the point of it. Second, the percentage I've seen is just about the reverse - most of the people I *have* met in there since the zones came out behave pretty well, with that last 10% just being the loudmouths (who will often end up finding someplace to hide if anyone actually stands up to them and they don't have friends around.)

You're in one of the few areas they can play *their* game (PVP) and you don't want them to?

If you had a - let's say, "Hunt Carnies in PI" mission, and an RPer asked you to stop because they're RPing "trying to make peace with them so they changed their ways," would you stop hunting any carnies in PI, or get a bit irritated that they kept trying to interfere and threatening to petition you for "griefing" their RP? You can't hunt the carnies in a mission - your mission says they must be in PI. You can't go *anywhere* else to do this. And someone else is complaining because you're trying to, because they're trying to do something that's a complete tangent to it.

That's what you're doing by complaining about people engaging in PVP in a PVP zone, or expecting them to play YOUR game ("I'm here for badges, not PVP" - aka "I'm here to make peace with all the carnies!") when they don't have much choice in where they can go to play theirs.

Now, yes, some things ARE unacceptable - I'd talk to that GM's supervisor if a group followed me out of the PVP zone to continue throwing insults and such. That IS harassment, by definition. Trash talking in the zone, there are other limits (but you still are subject to the "no racist/sexist/hate speech" bit.) Following you out to continue crosses all possible lines into harassment, though.

How do you know it's a fight they can't lose? How do THEY know it?

Put yourself in their shoes for a moment. They're likely not a PVPer. They just got hit by a (formerly) invisible opponent they didn't know was there. For all they know, there are five others getting ready to do the same thing. I *always* assume that, if I see a solo villain, they're playing bait. I know I've done it myself. (I assume it with a solo hero, as well.)

Also, you can't see their powers. You don't know if maybe they've gone a bit heavy on (in the tank's case) the primary, and don't *have* all that many attacks taken or slotted. For them it might well seem like a pointless fight.

Or, as mentioned - they just may not like PVP, period. Hell, I'm *surprised* when I see someone else in the zones. In the last few months, I've only seen a grand total of two or three other people who didn't come with me, and one of them, I think, was just getting the time badge for BB. (well, two or three other people, and just after PVP IOs, a group of farmers.) Not two or three others at once - two or three, total, over the past few months.

Plus (also as mentioned,) they may not know you're lower level than them (or realize they have powers +5 over the zone level, thanks to the SSK mechanics.)

If they start running, and they're going after Shivans - send them a tell. Admittedly they may not have them turned on, but if they do have "see enemy tells" enabled, ask them if they're going after shivans. Nicely. I have, in the past, made deals - "I'll help you out, just duel me after you have it." (or if they don't have one, before.) I've seen more cross-side assistance than fights. (On my villains, I'll especially help lowbie controllers/defenders that may not have a lot of damage potential, if they want it but don't want to fight.)

That last attitude? It'll take some of the trepidation some people feel about PVPers and PVP zones away - maybe they'll wander back in and look for a good fight later, and find it fun. Maybe not. *shrug* In any case, there are plenty of reasons they might run - "Being a hero" doesn't always, or even usually, mean "Jumping into what you think is a no-win situation."

Don't forget:
COH = Unavailable for longer.

His mouse looked hungry. Also - *points at avatar.*

Preferrably with a nice wine, some veggies on the side, and an apple in his mouse.

Vive la Resistance!

Didn't check the builds - did you have Placate by *30* or *35?* Don't forget, the new SSK rules are in effect in the PVP zones. In BB, you have all your powers up to 30 - and that does make a difference. (Most visibly with Masterminds having all six pets.) Sirens, 35 - so blasters have their nuke, controllers have their pet, etc.

Yes, this is personally verified. And IMHO loosens up zone builds a bit. Arena is a different kettle of fish entirely.