Mandur12
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:If 30% +regen is worth 1.67 hp/sec at 1338.6 hp whether or not you have 0 +regen or 1000 +regen, and is thus defined as NOT having diminishing returns, then how does recharge reduction have diminishing returns when +regen is essentially a recharge reduction on your health tic timer?Originally Posted by Umbral
It's actually not diminishing returns. 30% +regen will provide 1.67 extra hp/sec to a character with 1338.6 hit points no matter if it's the only +regen you've got or if you've already got 700% +regen. Each portion of +regen adds the same amount. It's a linear addition. The "diminishing returns" only exist when you observe on a comparative basis. 30% +regen adds less comparative survivability at 600% +regen than it does as 0% +regen because the percent increase overall is greater. The increase is still the same, it just seems like a smaller improvement because you've already got so much of it.
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The only effects in game that actually have legitimate defined diminishing returns are recharge and endurance reduction because of the calculations for them. Because they're modifying the power characteristic by dividing it, the relationship is naturally diminishing: the first 100% +rech you get reduces the recharge more than the second 100% +rech you get. The first takes the recharge from full to half and the second takes it from half to one third. The improvement diminishes substantially.
Let's say you have a click power that heals 40hp every 4 seconds for a time averaged value of 10hp/sec. +100% recharge would give you 40hp every 2 seconds for 20hp/sec and +200% recharge would give you 40 hp every 1.33 seconds for 30hp/sec. Each +100% recharge is worth 10 hp/sec in that scenario. *Damage will work out the same. The effect rechrdx has on a DPS chain, of course, is nebulous: need more information.
I'm just not sure how interesting that bolded part is in the quoted section. Each % of regen decreases the health tic interval by an ever decreasing amount, but that isn't the best way to look at it as you point out.
edit: * well, DPC will. Which isn't very informative usually. But you know what I meant :P -
Quote:I hate how this game is biased against the casual gamer!Originally Posted by RagManX
I have gotten 4 purple drops since they were released. I'll never get my L50 warshade slotted properly.
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Counterpoint: It's always funny to me to defeat an enemy with kick.
Me: I told you to stop shooting at me, didn't I?
*puntinthenethers*
Badguy: "hLuuurggg"
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Quote:Though I don't have a controller with ET, I do have it on a scrapper, and Red Tomax gives the same stats for that as the scrapper version. I don't have any problems hitting most things on my scrapper, personally. YMMV, and apparently it does for LM. But when he says the Ice APP has better better AoE, it's not just a comparison between the 2 cones. Ice also has ice storm. And with an immob that whould be a substantial amount of AoE damage.Originally Posted by Sailboat
Well, you have more experience with the APPs than I do (my only Controller with an APP so far took Psi), but Red Tomax seems to indicate that Energy Torrent is a 45 degree cone and Frost Breath a 30 degree cone.
Now, I don't have an Earth/Rad. But I do have an Earth/Storm and an Ice/Rad, and I personally love the combo of powerboosted EM Pulse. I can also say, and this is probably what LM would say, that who needs a powerboosted EM Pulse with all of the location based control that Earth can throw around. Taking on a boss group when a patrol rounds the corner? How about the patrol rounding the corner right when the boss drops and spawns an ambush? Earth can handle that properly dropping its AoE controls: stalag/cages over here, EQ over there, hey those guys look like they need a dose of VG. Everyone needs QS. Rad can handle that, too. PB+EMP and /afk while you go get a drink
CP is pretty nice for when EM Pulse turns off your end. I'd agree that you should test a couple options out for yourself and playstyle often dictates the best fit for you. I'm a fan of stone mastery and primal, myself. I play a lot of my controllers right on the edge of combat (neither really ranged nor melee) and I like to be able to run in and lay a seismic smash on someone and have no problems lining up a cone.
It has a 60ft radius, you don't have to be in melee range! Even calling it a PBAoE is sorta weird.... how about a ranged hold centered on the caster?Quote:Originally Posted by Local_Manmy Earth/Rad tries to stay out of melee most of the time. -
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At least no one's arguing the /TA portion.
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Pfft, you could eat that whole sandwich in the time it takes to animate 2-3 /TA clicks!
I don't argue /TA's lockdown capability, but for my inf the pacing and play of /storm and /rad is much better.... -
Heh, just took a screenie of that, but not fast enough it appears. That one probably hurt a little.
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I'm only 20,000,000 bids away from that purple recipe!
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Trust me, it's well worth the time when you finally get that item for 103,222,256, and know you didn't overpay by more than 4 inf.
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I'm outraged by this obviously serious post. -
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I thought we learned a long time ago that endurance is a pretty poor balancing mechanic. See, for example, Instant Healing.
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And I thought we learned that balancing the plus side of the scale with making it god awful to play didn't work. See for example Unyielding, Rooted, Rage, Knockout Blow, Inferno, Super Nova, etc, etc, etc ....
Apparently we're still learning that lesson
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Sure, understood. Doesn't negate my point. When you say:
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Managing the end cost of all those toggles would be the mitigating factor to using Granite (which makes more sense thematically as well).
I'd much rather have to manage all those toggles endurance wise then put up with the -recharge and -speed of the current Granite.
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Of course you'd much rather manage end. End is nearly trivial to manage nowadays (by the level you get granite). Maybe it would have worked Pre-I9 to make this change, but you're essentially asking for another /regen IH problem in the world of IOs with +end being a cheap opportunity cost fix for a high end-cost granite toggle (like regen could double up QR+Stam). In order to make a high end-cost toggle granite mean something to an expensive build it would be out of reach for use with SOs.
Of course, you could use my argument against me by documenting all of the possibly undesired things IOs now let us do. That doesn't excuse adding another circumstance to that list.
Also, as far as balancing upside with downside: Do you feel, by your same logic, that we should remove the crash from unstoppable completely? How about all "crashes" from all powers? FYI: I'm not accusing you of having a black or white opinion, I'm just wondering where the line in the sand is. -
I thought we learned a long time ago that endurance is a pretty poor balancing mechanic. See, for example, Instant Healing.
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After clearing up my misunderstanding, try this theoretical scrapper SS chain:
KoB>Haymaker>Dark Blast>Punch>Haymaker>Dark Blast>Repeat
Chain takes 9.636s to complete -
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You're getting the recharge calculation wrong. 250% +recharge for KOB is 25/(1+2.5) = 7.14 seconds.
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From the OP:
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All attack chains set at a total recharge value of 250%.
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I took that to mean 25/(1+1.5)=10. Then I reread and saw that he was using +250% in his BU example, not a total of 250%. Editted my post to clarify my misunderstanding. -
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SuperStrength on scrappers kinda blows using just SS powers.
Chain: KOB/Punch/Jab/Haymaker/Punch/Jab: 9.897 seconds 4.72 EPS
Same uptime on Rage but accounting for base +100% buff instead of 80%
DPS: 185.4 Below Brute Battleaxe and above Scrap Dark w/3
If someone can give me a better chain, even using pool powers if necessary, I'll recalculate it.
EDIT: WRONG. Missed two cells on DPA. Fixed.
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I don't think that chain works with the 250% total recharge. KoB, unlike it's cousins in EM and SM, recharges in 25 seconds. At 250% recharge, that leaves a 10 second gap in between each KoB. (though you might have accounted for that, didn't actually try to reverse engineer your dps number)
This is just a quick chain I put together using 2 pool attacks. There might be a better one, but don't have time to fiddle with it atm.
KoB/Punch/Dark Blast/Haymaker/Punch/Dark Blast/Air Superiority/Haymaker. My "back of the envelop" calcs give that chain 12.804 secs to complete for (edit: unenhanced, no rage, no crits) 11.916DS of damage, or ~.931 DS/sec.
As always, check my math. I'm usually ok at theory but I screw up the actual calcs all the time.
edit: clarification.
edit2: ignore this post.....just saw in the OP where you use +250%, not total 250% recharge. -
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I kinda like the new animation. I really hate what the animation change did to the flow and performance of the set, however. The token change made to barrage was practically meaningless except to tanks who would use it as a chain filler. It's still the worst attack in the set..... it's just no longer worse than brawl. -
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On FM's DoT, only the two swords have it for the chain I was using, and CoD made it seem like they were nothing but an 80% chance of all the DoT hitting. So I tacked on that damage at 80% of the actual value but didn't allow it to affect the crit value.
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FYI, CoD doesn't seem to indicate this anymore, but unless something changed with FM and FB I think the DoT chances are CancelOnMiss. That means that there's an 80% chance for the first DoT to happen, and if it occurs there's an 80% chance for the second one to fire off, but if not the second will never fire. So the DoT's stop firing once they get a miss.
If they are still set up like that (and I wouldn't be able to check until tonight), then the proper way to calculate the average number of DoT damage tics for 5 tics of 80% DoT with the CancelOnMiss flag would be:
0.8 + (0.8*0.8) + (0.8*0.8*0.8) + (0.8*0.8*0.8*0.8) + (0.8*0.8*0.8*0.8*0.8) =
0.8 + 0.64 + 0.512 + 0.4096 + 0.32768 = 2.68928
Or, around 2.7 tics of DoT on average.
4 Tics of 80% CancelOnMiss produce an average of 2.3616 tics
3 = 1.952
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Very good post, though I would add that the aggro aura for Shield Defense is about as strong as Willpower's, but the extra AoE damage from Shield Charge helps the Shielder maintain aggro.
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It originally was that way, but that seems to have changed at some point in here. City of data now lists it as a 16.875 second mag 4 taunt instead of the 1.25 second mag 3 taunt it used to be, and that seems to be backed up by both the in-game numbers (shows '400% taunt' instead of willpower's 300%) and my anecdotal experience - shielders sure seem to be holding aggro a lot more easily than most WPs I come across.
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Hmmm, good info, didn't think to check CoD: I assumed Mids' was up to date enough on the shields numbers. This avoids a post I've been meaning to make re: my scrapper duo I've recently started. I have a dm/shield who's able to brawl away aggro from my friends' kat/wp scrapper. I didn't think that should be possible if the taunt aspect of the auras were identical, but since they aren't then that explains that
Sucks, tho, she's a bit more survivable than I am at the level we're playing at right now (low 20s). -
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I don't think damage resistance debuffs can be resisted, can they?
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I'd refer back to Arcanaville's previous post as an answer.
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...<snip> ... it wasn't well known that resistance debuffs are *resisted* by damage resistance.
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I wish I could remember everyones name, but I would like to send a shout out to the SG that had 4 or 5 members there, the girl was from canada and dude that wore the kilt, that was an awsome sg.
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Yeah, you guys rocked as well! Loved to meet you all! One of these days I'm gonna come over and resurrect my long neglected scrapper on your server and look you all up. Beware!
<---- the guy with glasses who at one point during a conversation with one of your SG mates was drunkenly yelling out to the room at the Hard Rock that a fire/fire blaster that has never seen the debt cap was scientifically impossible
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I had a lot of buy orders in and probably lost 50 million influence. I hope their fix works........ -
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Waaaiiittt a sec. Do you mean the event where the Devs put on the tights as the signature heroes and invaded the Rogue Isles? They complained that they weren't able to attack the other players as they saw fit because of the taunt effects they had on them?
So, unless I'm missing the meaning here, an essentially PvP event has influenced a PvE game change? (In a way that I'm sure most of us would at least raise an eyebrow over....)
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Yep, that's the event I'm talking about. I can understand them changing it so that GMs are unaffected by inherent taunt, since there are potentially dozens of different targets applying the effect. However, it doesn't make sense for AVs that appear on mission maps, since there are normally only one or two players with an inherent taunt effect on any given team.
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The rules they instituted as a result of that PvP event shoulda stayed PvP imo.
Ugh. The only sense I can make out of this is that they wanted to make the AV encounters more chaotic no matter WHAT team makeup one has. 1 power can still negate that chaos, but only 1. Otherwise the somewhat nebulous aggro rules apply.
Edit: Whining and self-loathing deleted. Ya know....cuz sensibilities may be offended.......
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I think the Gauntlet change came in sometime after the CoV end-of-Beta event, as I remember the devs talking about how all the taunt effects basically shut down the AV/GM ability to attack.
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Waaaiiittt a sec. Do you mean the event where the Devs put on the tights as the signature heroes and invaded the Rogue Isles? They complained that they weren't able to attack the other players as they saw fit because of the taunt effects they had on them?
So, unless I'm missing the meaning here, an essentially PvP event has influenced a PvE game change? (In a way that I'm sure most of us would at least raise an eyebrow over....)