MajorPrankster

This is the key that seems to evade the "I'm gonna play the way I want it to work/should have been made" crowd.

The tools are in the game to make your character more powerful, survivable and wealthy.

To turn a blind eye to things and then complain that you cannot accomplish what others can using those tools is using terribly bad logic.

The tools are not hard to use. They might take some time, but MMOs are time sinks.

I am actually surprised, genuinely, that Ultimo_ FINALLY actually took some amount of advice about this topic. I never thought it would happen.

The point of your OP was, obviously, that you want to decide who gets to become an Incarnate based upon your view of how the Real World should work and apply that to a Video Game that is meant to be a pleasurable time sink.

As for 'the future of the game', the Incarnate system seems to be just what this game needed from where I am sitting. I can certainly see ways to improve and tweak it, but a fundamental re-write is not needed. From the various level of excitement both on the boards and in the game, others think as I do it seems and I have not heard anyone other than the OP spout anything like this kind of dribble.

And, if you think success in Real Life is not tilted absurdly toward blind luck, then you really need adjust the medication. Most of the best and worst things in life occur through random chance, right up to and including your conception, unless one is a test-tube baby.

You and me both.

I really hope I never have to hire any of them if they have similar outlooks to the degree they want to enforce Real Life rules on Video Games.

You mention how you get attacked by posters in the thread so quickly, yet you toss out things like this?

Really, if the game is frustrating to you more than it is fun, it is in your best interests for your own health to take a step back.

The only other thing I have read in this is that you find some of the encounters to be difficult. They are supposed to be. This is no longer content that you can just run in and button mash.

Just because you have tried some tactics and failed, does NOT mean it cannot be done, only that it needs different tactics.

Honestly, where to begin. Chances are I will get mod-smacked regardless, so I might as well just jump right into it.

Without reservation, this is the most elitist pile of dribble I think I have ever read since trying to research the KKK.

I consider myself a skilled player and I am not insulted, don't presume to speak for me. Wait, your ego obviously won't allow me to be a skilled player and still disagree with your entire outlook on the game I bet.

What, exactly, is an undeserving, unskilled lazy player in an MMO?

Do you mean the new player that is learning the ropes? Like you, me and everyone else was at some point in time?

Do you mean the one that stepped away to care of something important like a child and did not pew-pew-pew for a few minutes here and there on the TF?

Do you mean the one that really does not play the game for any other reason than to socialize with friends, that just wants the Incarnate abilities to continue being able to socialize with high level characters of said friends?

Are you perhaps referring to player that got PL'ed and IO'ed faster than you did by friends?

Do you mean the ones that have paid for the game since Day 1, never dropping their subscription, but that only get to play a few times a month (or year) and therefore are newbies every time they play?

Perhaps you are referring to the children that play? Or those ones that play as families spanning three generations who are more interested in laughing and enjoying family gatherings over efficiently defeating foes?

I dunno, maybe you mean the ones that are disabled, in whatever way, and the game as a nice escape from RL for them should not allow them higher rewards because the are not performing to your standards on the TF?

The depth of narcissism to think that any of these player segments does not deserve to enjoy all the content of the game they pay for is really astounding on a point of view like this.

In an MMO, the person who spends the most time playing gets the most rewards as a general rule as these games are time sinks.

As others have point out, the more experienced players will and do get a higher return on time played to gaining shards, because they know where to go and what to do.

Therefore your entire argument at it face value is completely trounced anyway, regardless of the bile.

Now that's funny! Trying to bring up real politics?

If you cannot see that putting out a patch they know is broken is a bad thing, I am certainly glad we never hired you at the software company where I work.

As for your doom and gloom over the financials and your laughable attempts to somehow promote PvP as the possible savior, it simply shows how little you really know of the demographic this game attracts.

So, I am really glad you have nothing to do with the production of City, I would not ever want you to touch it in any way, shape or form and frankly, if you are SO much better at running and MMO, please, let us all know when yours goes into open beta.

Again, Thank you Paragon Studios for a fine product!

She has ALL the PvP IOs of course!

And you know this how? Where are your statistics and methodology in obtaining them?

First off, anyone that know MMOs and is looking for an MMO know that they favor long term players, period. That is the nature of them.

Second, if a person is looking to play a 'supers' game, they get that. Thousands of us had powerful heroes long before IOs were ever part of the game.

Third, if the developers were 'doing it wrong' the game would not still be here. they seem to attract and hold customers quite well for this niche MMO.

Again, you have been shown all of this is possible, over and over, through normal play with no 'exploits'. Additionally, your premise has been shown faulty because it becomes obvious only a small percentage of players give a hoo-ha about min-maxing to point of wanting multiple Purple/PvP sets, just from reading this thread. Even the real min-maxers have shown that's not even the best way to do it.

YOU seem to think that intelligently crafting and listing IOs on the market gained through normal play to make money is an exploit. The developers do not. This is another laughable viewpoint.

At this point, all I can say is that I really hope your letter to the developers is open, because I could really use a good laugh. The lack of understanding on your part of the MMO market, this game itself and the mechanics of this games internal player driven economy are such that I cannot wait to see what such an uninformed viewpoint comes up with to overhaul the game.

Could you be any more disingenuous?

You have gotten answers, they don't make you FEEL better, so they do not exist?

I can get my Alzheimer ridden mother to comprehend things better.

You sir are truly a piece of work.

Dude, I did that a several posts ago!

I told you exactly how and how long it took a friend of mine to do, on his own, new to the game, new to MMOs even.

Here, I'll even quote it for you:

"A long time friend, and admittedly a pretty sharp guy, got into the game a while back.

Myself and two others of our circle of friends had been playing for many years at that point. While we had a couple characters with a few IOs here and there and a few million on hand, we were pretty much playing the game market free and having a blast. We felt and were plenty powerful enough etc.

Our newly arrived friend saw the market and having some time during periods where the rest of us were not online, decided to see what it was all about.

In less than 6 months, without a 50th level character and very little research other than on the mechanics of crafting, he crafted his way to a fully IO'ed Stone Tanker and 2 billion on hand. You know his only complaint? No badge for getting to the inf cap.

This was all before his 6th month vet badge. He played time-wise, compared to me, about one quarter of the time I played. He made so much inf and saw how easy it was, pretty much entirely through buying recipes and selling the crafted IO's, that he got BORED with making inf.

If he could do that in less than 6 months of playing and after years of playing others cannot, is the problem the with the system or the player that is unable to make inf?"

It cannot be any more obvious that you are just reading posts here that either make you FEEL better about your position or that you think you call out someone for insulting you and ignoring the rest, or ridiculing them outright.

As for how long I think it should take, I think it should take as long as the developers allow based upon the rules the have invoked. That means a well informed player can do it in less than a month and someone that chooses not to use all the tools available to them should not be able to do it even after 42 months of playing.

Your will-full ignorance is astonishing.

And you have been show over and over and over again that is can be done in that time frame.

Well, it's my feeling that any further discourse with you on this topic is nothing more than a waste of time and energy in any effort to change your closed mind on the subject.

However, I continue because I KNOW that those of us here that put forth facts about how the game actually works will show the new players that might come across this type of mis-information, based upon feelings and nebulous, unsubstantiated accusations, that facts are what matter.

You have been shown, by my example of my friend doing this in less than 6 months of play, it can be done.

There is nothing to fix. It can be done now if you want to do it.

I don't know how I can be any more clear.

They already do. I play the same way you do and I have multiple 'finished' 50's by your standards. I do not play the market, in any way shape or form. I sell what I get for 11 inf. Sometimes if something looks really good, I craft it and then sell it because I can make a bit more. From there, I just buy the recipes I do want, craft them and use them. There are thousands of players doing the same.

As to the question I posed, it really is a question.

Your answer appears to be nothing more than "I don't like it." In terms of what we are discussing, that is not really much of an answer.

Because you do not like the fact that others will pay a higher price for something from another player is not a logical or reasonable reason for the developers to implement a system that allows you to purchase something more cheaply than the prices that have already been established by the developers - ie. the time and energy to get those things through merits, inf accumulation, etc. It certainly is not a valid reason to force other players to sell these things for less than someone is willing to pay for them.

They earned those rewards the ways the developers intended and other players, who choose not to spend the time and energy to attain them, have been given an alternative method, the market. You can also make trades of pretty much any kind off of the market. The developers have already given you multiple avenues to get what you want.

Your argument seems to be that you want these things more easily.

As I stated earlier, this is simply not the way MMOs are setup. They are time sinks. It is not supposed to be easy to get what are considered the very best items.

You keep coming back to the time you played as a basis for getting what you want, when other have shown you repeatedly that in much less time, you can acquire what you want. You seem to be unwilling to change anything about the way you approach the game to acquire rewards when if you did, from the looks of it just a little, you would be able to get what you desire, within reason. It is not reasonable, in terms of a modern MMO, to think you can a acquire a full set of the most rare items without some serious, directed time and energy that includes doing some things you might not like to do as much as others.

This is not an anomaly.

I sell 99% of all my drops and crafted IOs for 11 inf. Even the ones that appear to go for hundreds of millions.

While I put them up for 11, I earn hundreds of millions of inf.

You simply refuse to accept the fact that buyers set the prices.

You refuse to accept the fact that in an MMO there are things that not every player is going to get due to the time/energy/money needed to attain them.

You refuse accept the fact that if your premise was correct about the prices turning away players, there would not be thousands of subscribers enjoying the game.

The nature of an MMO is that rare items must be earned, one way or another and are not handed out simply because a player has paid for game time. Until you accept this basic premise, it looks to me that you will never be happy with any in-game economy in any MMO.

I so did not need that image in my head before coffee....

As to the topic at hand.

A long time friend, and admittedly a pretty sharp guy, got into the game a while back.

Myself and two others of our circle of friends had been playing for many years at that point. While we had a couple characters with a few IOs here and there and a few million on hand, we were pretty much playing the game market free and having a blast. We felt and were plenty powerful enough etc.

Our newly arrived friend saw the market and having some time during periods where the rest of us were not online, decided to see what it was all about.

In less than 6 months, without a 50th level character and very little research other than on the mechanics of crafting, he crafted his way to a fully IO'ed Stone Tanker and 2 billion on hand. You know his only complaint? No badge for getting to the inf cap.

This was all before his 6th month vet badge. He played time-wise, compared to me, about one quarter of the time I played. He made so much inf and saw how easy it was, pretty much entirely through buying recipes and selling the crafted IO's, that he got BORED with making inf.

If he could do that in less than 6 months of playing and after years of playing others cannot, is the problem the with the system or the player that is unable to make inf?

Now the OP is also railing against the rarity of some IOs as well, trying it seems to make a case that some things are too rare as well. In less than 6 months, my buddy could acquire the most rare items in the game without ever manipulating anything on the market, farming or exploiting, just playing the game by the rules, crafting and selling stuff, spending 10-12 minutes here and there.

From where I sit, everything looks like it's working just fine.

Truth be told, the only reason I have posted more in this thread is an attempt to understand the mindset/outlook Ultimo_ presents in an attempt to further my knowledge of cognitive dissonance.

Having to deal with people on a daily basis that use emotional feelings in place of logic and reason, I am always interested in how they come to the conclusions and opinions they hold.

In reality, it's very difficult to pry out the why from them because they tend to think 'because it's how I feel' is a valid, logical answer.

Brain chemistry is simply fascinating to me. Being a gamer, where rules logic is king in terms of implementation, but yet making decisions based entirely upon feelings is a mental juxtaposition I love to explore.

Now you are just being evasive ans obtuse, refusing to answer a simple question.

There are builds you have been shown for your characters that would allow them to never run out of endurance using good attack and defenses.

How is that not sufficient for you?

I completely understand you.

You, it seems, do not know what the word sufficient actually means.

If you NEVER need endurance, how is that not sufficient? Your opinion does not change the meaning of words, or perhaps it does in your mind...