Maelwys

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Nah - I just don't buy this. I have never come across any 'dual purpose' enhancements.

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Endmods. They enhance Drain and +Recovery.
And Hami-Os. Defence == DefDebuff and Tohit == TohitDebuff. Cytos and Enzymes are functionally identical.

Test it yourself if you really aren't willing to believe the combined testimony of several high level MMs, two respected MM guide writers and the head of CoH development. I've stated how to do so several times.

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And TBH I don't even think posi knows what he is talking about.

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Not even going to touch that one...

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Nope - the quote from postitron is unclear on what happenes to endurance reduction SO's. Please read further into the thread - about page 5. Posi is just talking about the recharge enhancements.

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What Okton said.

Positron is quite clear, the other numpties later on in that thread were simply having trouble telling the difference between "Pets" and "Henchmen".

For Henchmen, anything slotted in the power will affect the powers used by the summoned pet. Recharge Enhancements were removed because they would affect the actual summon power instead of the pet, this is why recharge enhancements were not included in henchmen pet powers.

Also note that the way Positron phrased his answer. He states that Recharge enhancements would ONLY affect the summon power, and NOT affect the pets... and that this behaviour is not shared by any of the other enhancements. "All other enhancements always affect the powers of the Henchmen, and not [always affect] the summoning power itself". This is not the same as saying that "all other enhancements always affect the powers of the Henchmen, but they NEVER affect the summoning power itself".

This is logical, since slotting a henchmen power for accuracy will not affect how you summon a Henchman... there is no tohit check performed to see if you can summon a henchman!! However endurance reduction affects both the henchman's powers AND the initial summoning cost.

This is very easy to test with "Protector Bots" after the level 32 upgrade: as any mid-level Robotic MM will be able to tell you, they consistently run out of endurance trying to keep the other bots bubbled unless they are slotted for End reduction. And as you have discovered already, the same Endurance Reduction enhancements also decrease that Henchman's initial summoning cost.

I have two high level Robot/ MMs. One is a level 50 Bot/Dark, the other is a level 49.7 Bot/Traps.
Both have their Protector Bot power slotted for EndRed, because that EndRed affects the Bot's powers.

This is not new behaviour -"Endurance Reduction Enhancements will affect both your endurance cost for summoning AND reduce the endurance costs for the henchmen summoned." - 06/26/06

How the heck did we get from "Defences against Energy Absorption" to here anyway?

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Its been common knowledge for ages that it's how much endurance your henchmen uses. Pretty sure that slotting Ranges in them only affects the distance at where you can summon them , which is what I'm guessing youre trying to say so I agree that this clashes with what I'm saying.

Just try and play with end reductions in your pets and you'll see what I'm talking about.

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Just tried it - absolutely no difference. I had a kin friend of mine drain a bot of all it endurance and I checked to see how many times he would fire in the 2 minutes afterwards. It fired the same number of time with 3 x SO endurance reductions as it did with no endurance reductions.

This is one of the misconceptions that was laid to rest ages ago on the U.S. formus.

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Robotic Masterminds have known ever since the AT was introduced that after the level 32 Upgrade the Protector Bots' Bubbles cost more Endurance than they can generate. Slotting one EndRed SO will however give the Bots a slight net endurance gain.

That was a bad test, since assuming that the Bot has a net gain of Endurance the amount of endred in its attacks won't matter if the endurance bar isn't being constantly drained. What you *should* have done is gotten the kin (or several kins) to spam Transference on the Bot constantly, and measure how many times the Bot got to fire back whilst having it's endurance drained.

Effectively, if a Bot's attack costs X endurance to use then the Bot must go from 0 to X after a Transference (or other End drain) before it can use that attack. If however the Bot has endred slotted then the attack's cost will be lowered, meaning less endurance has to be recovered after a Transference in order for that attack to activate. Basically if the attacks don't cost as much, they will fire faster after an end drain. Since there is a time gap between Transferences/Drains, a Bot which has lower endurance attacks will get more attacks out between drains. A Bot with sufficently low endurance costs will suffer very little from endurance drains because even after a full drain it will start attacking again just as soon as the first recovery tick kicks in.

Now if the Kin was a Kin/Elec defender and used Short Circuit then we'd have a problem, since Short Circuit does -recovery (which would prevent the Bot from receiving that first recovery tick) as well as drain... but thankfully an Ice Tanker's Energy Absorption has no such -recovery!!

Essentially once you go over level 32 you'll need slightly less than 107% Enhancement values before ED scaling is applied in order to be left with 100% at level 30 (the level you're exemped to in Sirens Call).

For a Mastermind that doesn't care about set bonuses, the idea would be to get at least 107% Acc and 107% Dam in each pet, plus enhancements for whatever other secondary effects that pet might also take/need.

For a Robot MM, Battle Drones and the Assault Bot don't cause mez other than Knockback, so the only thing that's really needed is a SO's worth of endred in Protector Bots. Defense or Healing % are also nice in the Protector Bots if you can fit it in.

The three "Aura" Unique IOs are also well worth getting. Unfortunately since they're not Procs they'll only work at (-3) to the level of the enhancement or above... so you'll need to find level 33 or lower "Defense Aura" or "Resistance Aura" uniques to get the benefit of them in Sirens. The Pet Taunt/Placate Resistance one is of questionable use for Sirens Call zone PvP (or any PvP really).

Personally, I'm aiming for:

Battle Drones: (6-Slotted)
+ 50 Blood Mandate Acc/Dmg/End
+ 50 Blood Mandate Acc/Dmg
+ 50 Nucleolus Acc/Dam HO
+ 50 Nucleolus Acc/Dam HO
+ <33 Edict of the Master (Defense Aura)
+ <33 Sovereign Right (Resistance Aura)
= 114.30% Acc, 114.30% Dam, 21.20 EndRed
Plus 5% Defence (All) and 10% Resistance (All) for all nearby pets

Protector Bots: (6-Slotted)
+ 50 Blood Mandate Acc/Dmg/End
+ 50 Sovereign Right Acc/Dmg/End
+ 50 Nucleolus Acc/Dam HO
+ 50 Nucleolus Acc/Dam HO
+ 50 Defence Common IO
+ 50 Defence Common IO
= 109.00% Acc, 109.00% Dam, 51.00% Def, 42.40 EndRed

Assault Bot: (4-Slotted)
+ 50 Blood Mandate Acc/Dmg/End
+ 50 Blood Mandate Acc/Dmg
+ 50 Nucleolus Acc/Dam HO
+ 50 Nucleolus Acc/Dam HO
= 114.30% Acc, 114.30% Dam, 21.20 EndRed

Note that the HO's aren't needed if you don't want to slot for secondary effects: The cheapest way of slotting over 107% Acc/Dam in a pet is probably 4x level 50 common IOs (Acc/Acc/Dam/Dam) plus 1x level 50 Acc/Dam set IO. This will give you 111.30% Acc and Dam and leave room for an Aura or EndRed IO in the 6th slot.

There's also a particular Purple IO that you'll want to keep an eye out for when issue 11 hits:
+ Soulbound Allegiance: Chance for Build Up
(16.6% chance to get a '+80% Damage buff for 5 seconds' on the pet using this enhancement)
...would fit nicely into the Assault Bot, no?

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With several foes within melee range

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and there is the problem with Willpower and newbie teams who have a AoE immobing controller who cant keep his/her xp pants on....

..."at times".

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That looks to be a quote relating to INV (taken completely out of context) not Willpower.

For most situations I can grab aggro from an AoE immob simply through a well placed footstomp. Heck I can even jump into the middle of them and get the majority of them fuelling "invincibility" providing that the controller got the Immob off early whilst they were still clustered.

I've no problem with AoE immobs. AoE "panic" damage/debuff rains that are cast without a AoE mez to lock the foes in the area of effect are another story... manys a time I've come close to verbally abusing a [censored] stormie after the umpteenth time they've cast freezing rain on Warwolves on the Shadowhunter AV map... "WOLVES RESIST IMMOBS, SLOWS AND KNOCKDOWN, STOP SCATTERING THEM DAMMIT!!"

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Based on general discussions, if the wedding band remains farmable, gues thats no problem

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Between the band, the Nemesis Staff and the Warwolves I can see temp power farming reaching silly levels.

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However, on (i). Inv suffer the same issue,

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Dull Pain?!? It's a bigass uninterruptable heal!

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together with their weak resist/def outside the SL.

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This is a common misconception about INV.

With several foes within melee range, INV can get over 45% Defence to all (except Psi) with proper slotting + Weave. Dull Pain can also be made "Perma" and Unstoppable up more often that it is down.

My own INV/SS hits that 45% soft cap with 8 foes in melee range.

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Although Tier9 on inv makes him invincible, the crash is insane likewise, wehre i read the tier9 on WP only give a little end crash.

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I need to check that on test, I've heard conflicting reports so far.

You can't really compare INV's Tier 9 with WP's. The INV tier 9 caps resists to everything except Psionic, a Willpower tanker running their tier 9 still has worse E/N/F/T resists than a Fire tanker (43% compared to 47% E/N, 100% F and ~60% T). The willpower one really seems to be an extra stackable power rather than a "Fire and forget" panic button. For example a Willpower Tanker that was endurance drained or mezzed would easily get flattened even though their tier #9 was still running. An INV wouldn't.

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Added that WP gets really alot regen

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Actually WP is only really a "lot" of regen when there are several foes nearby.

With only one foe in melee range (an AV fight) that Willpower build I drew up gets 715% Regen. This is about the same as an IO'ed Regen Scrapper with Integration, Fast Healing and Health (my Kat/Regen build is on 716%). [Willpower's other mitigation (defence and resistances plus their tier #9) therefore has to measure up directly to (Dull Pain + Reconstruction + IH + MoG) if it's being directly compared to Scrapper /regen].

Back to tanks: Mids quotes 715% Regen as recovering 2.98% Health per second, so on that tanker at level 50 that would equate to an average of (2925 x 0.0298) = 87 HP per second. Or 1740HP over 20 seconds.

Compare this with a Fire Tanker: A slotted "Healing Flames" recovers about 1465HP at level 50 and is up every 20 seconds. In that 20 seconds a Fire tanker would also have regenerated health naturally, 250% Regen is a good ballpark figure for a IO'ed Fire tanker (I have two builds that are 280%+) which will give about 21HP per second or 420HP over 20 seconds. That's 1465HP + 420HP = 1885HP total, 145HP more than what the Willpower would get in the same time period through their regeneration rate. A Fire tanker has no defence, less HP, slightly worse S/L resists and far better E/N/F/T Resists than Willpower.

Willpower's regen rate is not overpowered, it's balanced around tanking groups of mobs. Willpower has no real means to ramp up it's own mitigation for one-on-one (AV) encounters other than the tier #9, which seems slightly underpowered for that purpose. If I had to use a WillPower tanker to main tank for a Preatorian AV team or STF team, I'd need to stock up on purples. My INV tanker (which has Perma Dull Pain, less than 50% downtime on Unstoppable and the guts of 300% Regen) simply doesn't need to.

In short, I can't see Willpower standing alongside INV or Stone for AV encounters. For general team tanking however (lots of mobs, +2 to +4s) it'll perform roughly on-par with INV- squishier but less downtime. Fire/ will remain the best choice for damage output, and will be roughly on-par with Willpower for soloing and AV tanking. Ice will remain the PvP untouchable/PvE aggro control king and won't be worried at all.

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*woooooo bump*
As _spirit made up some final numbers on the willpower set, it really looks like a Inv-killer regen build. With 10 mobs around you get a whooping 900% regen combined with a 78% SL resist and a 20-30% defence to non-SL (psi get both).

The biggest downside seems to be the serious lack of imm-resist, however a CJ and we're all set. The Tier 9 seems to be a 'simple' one, little boost on resist but only having a -25 end crash.

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Firstly: I've examined the WillPower set at length, and with the confirmed numbers I'm still of the opinion that it's going to be a "very good" set for stalkers, and a "good" set for PvE Brutes/Tankers.

Scrapper WP performance will really depend on the Scrapper's style of gameplay, for a soloist or one-on-one boss killer it will outperform /INV and /DA but not /regen... for a herder/pseudotank it will outperform /INV and possibly /Regen but not /DA. Versus AVs it'll outperform /Regen and possibly /DA but not INV. Super Reflex's performance is too variable to make a direct comparison.

The Willpower set has three major holes:
(i) No uninterruptable Self-Heal.
(ii) No immobilisation protection
(iii) poor resistances to damage other than Smashing/Lethal/Psi.

We can pretty much ignore (ii) if we assume the toon will take Combat Jumping and use the Aegis Mez Resistance global IO, (i) can be countered by Aid Self, although it won't be quite as much use under fire as a uninterruptable heal. (iii) is where a well-built WP Tanker may find they'll run into problems in the later game.

Normally WillPower has about 15.5% resists to Energy/Negative/Fire/Cold/Toxic damage. When running the tier 9, this rises to around 43%. Willpower's Defense to these types of damage is around 24%. When combined with the lack of a self heal, this makes WillPower unsuitable for PvP and somewhat unsuitable for tanking many AVs (certainly the STF ones, and some Preatorians).

However Willpower is really going to shine versus lower ranked mobs, because there is very little other than non-S/L/P spike damage that can take it down. If you have several mobs around you, you'll effectively have "Instant Healing" levels of mitigation, on top of resists/defences and the Tanker AT's bigger HP pool.

I was able to get 35.2% Defence to E/N/F/C into an IO WillPower/Fire tanker build by taking Combat Jumping and Weave, the overall spread of mitigation is impressive but the maximum attainable resistances (and no self heal) would make me hesitate to try tanking a non-S/L damage +3/+4 AV with it toe-to-toe.


For reference, the best all-round mitigation I could get on that WP/Fire Tanker was:

DEFENCE:
14.8% Defence to S/L
35.2% Defence to E/N/F/C
30.4% Defence to Psi
14.8% Defence to Melee/Ranged/AoE

RESISTS: (Tier #9 Down)
78.9% Resistance to S/L
15.7% Resistance to E/N/P
17.3% Resistance to F/C
50.5% Resistance to Psi

RESISTS: (Tier #9 Up)
133.57% Resistance to S/L (Capped at 90%)
43.0% Resistance to E/N/P
44.6% Resistance to F/C
77.8% Resistance to Psi

REGEN:
469% Regen (No mobs in melee range)
715% Regen (1 mob in melee range)
1158% Regen (10 mobs in melee range)

HP: 2925HP at level 50 (+6.4% from set bonuses, 29.7% from HPT, +20% from accolades = 156.1% Total)

[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]+3% Defense(Smashing)[*]+3% Defense(Lethal)[*]+3% Defense(Fire)[*]+3% Defense(Cold)[*]+3% Defense(Energy)[*]+3% Defense(Negative)[*]+3% Defense(Psionic)[*]+3% Defense(Melee)[*]+3% Defense(Ranged)[*]+3% Defense(AoE)[*]+32% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]+46.3% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]+76.8 (6.38%) HitPoints[*]+MezResist(Confused) (Mag 20%)[*]+MezResist(Held) (Mag 20%)[*]+MezResist(Immobilize) (Mag 24.4%)[*]+MezResist(Sleep) (Mag 23.3%)[*]+MezResist(Stun) (Mag 20%)[*]+MezResist(Terrorized) (Mag 20%)[*]+7% Recovery[*]+98% Regeneration[*]+1.58% Resistance(Fire)[*]+1.58% Resistance(Cold)[*]+3% Resistance(Psionic)[*]+10% RunSpeed[/list]

AFAIK they all carry over.

What _Castle_ said prior to i9's release was that he didn't think they'd be able to make set bonuses carry over between forms due to a limitation in the game engine.

Subsequent player testing in the US confirmed that bonuses do carry over between forms, and _Castle_ seems quite happy with this so it's currently "Working as intended". Source here.

That's not in the "guides" section, so it might get pruned at some point. I'll include the relevant text below:

Posted by Memphis_Bill: Re: Kheldian Issue July 2007 post issue 10 - draft [07/30/07 06:55 PM]

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Concerning the IOs, was there any confirmation from _castle_ it was intended ? Because all I remember is a dev (bab I think) saying us it wouldn't work with the forms in the end because of a limitation, and later, when some players found it was in fact working, _castle_ being happily suprised of this. I remember him saying it was what they aimed for, but I don't remember any of them saying this working, despite what they though, as intended.
what's here is just to know what's the stance about this, and not just hoping they won't mess with the code and ignoring the raised issue after because having the sets bonuses working on all forms was just pure luck, it wasn't possible in the first time.
I'll read your tidbits, anyway. If you're absolutly sure of this, I'll remove it.


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When I wrote that bit for the city scoop, I asked Castle directly if it was a bug or not, and if we should be ready to see it disappear at some point in the future.

His response was that while it wasn't what he was told to expect to see, it's what he *wanted* to see, and he's perfectly happy with the bonuses carrying over regardless of form. It won't be "fixed" because it's not broken.

Here's the full exchange:
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I've been tapped to write a "State of the AT" for Khelds. One of the issues is, of course, IOs. I think there's some confusion as to how they work vs how they're *supposed* to work with Khelds and forms.

1. Testing seems to indicate that IOs in forms have their set bonuses "always on," regardless of form (Dwarf, Human, or Noval.) Does this match what you are seeing?

2. A prior statement by you seemed to indicate that wasn't planned, if it is happening. Does that mean:
- Oh, great, it does work, we'll leave it alone, or
- that's a bug, don't get attached to it?

3. If that's a bug, how are IOs supposed to work with forms? How is the set bonus stacking limit supposed to take forms into account in this case? Would the limit be global, or active only per form? (If it's not a bug... disregard, obviously.)

This would be a *big* help to know.

Thanks in advance.


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His response:

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1) Yes, it matches what I've seen in testing. No, it does NOT match what I was told would happen.

2) I don't consider it a bug; I considering it working the way I intended it to.

3) See above.


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what i can do to defend against this

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Move about (or at least don't cluster your bots together, /poison don't have any PBAoE buffs anyway), carry blues, floor his recharge rate (very difficult with Ice/), mez him (might be doable as a high level /poison with envenom/weaken/noxious gas), slot endreds in your summon powers. Defense won't help as EA is autohit.

Energy Absorption does not affect your bots' recovery, it just drains their blue bar... slotting endred will allow them to recover end faster than they use it and start firing again right after a drain.

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When you say you change the power bars around manually, you do that in the middle of fights?

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Well, I do it in the middle of a mission certainly. Occasionally I might switch trays mid-fight if I see the team's tanker faceplant and I know I'll need to "fill in tank" for a good while.

Tray layout is here (the 5th insps column is actually used in missions! )

#3: Dwarf Smite/Strike/Flare/Taunt/Heal, Geas Accolade, Light Form, Rez, Rest, Dwarf Toggle.
#2: Super Speed, Human Flare, Photon Seekers, Nuke, SJ, CJ, Acrobatics, Quantum Flight, PB Hover, PB Fly.
#1: Eyebeam, Blast, Sands of Mu, R. Strike, I. Strike, Build Up, Heal, Dull Pain, Conserve Energy, Hasten.

Usually i'd switch trays before a big fight, it's more a convienience thing than necessary though. I tend to tank in Dwarf form for short durations mid-fight just by clicking the powers I need on the upper tray.

I rarely use Dwarf Form long-term in missions unless the team's without a proper tanker, and in that case I'd be in my "tank" mindset, focussing on aggro control all the time - my top and bottom trays would remain swapped (Human attacks on uppermost tray and dwarf powers on lowermost tray) for the entire play session.

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Dont you think one bound keypress would expedite that process and improve your ability to rapidly meet different combat conditions?

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Nope. Takes all of two clicks with the mouse (&lt; 1 second) to switch my lower tray from #1 to #3. Same again with the upper tray to switch it from #3 to #1 (but it's only really the lower tray switching that's important!).

As mentioned before, I only really switch the trays for convenience's sake... since if I know I'm going to remain in Dwarf form for a while it's easier just to tap Joypad buttons than click the mouse all the time. For short durations of Dwarfie fighting (eg. Human form has just Nuked, pop a Blue + switch to Dwarfie... or Team aggroes a second mob and we need a backup tanker) I'm perfectly comfortable clicking on a power tray button icon to activate Dwarf Form and then click on whatever powers I want to activate.

After level 38 Dwarfie gets used less and less since Light form is a better survivability tool. Dwarf's only real use for me at higher levels is post-nuke when Light Form isn't up, or for team aggro control + AV tanking...

I've been meaning to go back and IO up my PB, have had a new build planned since i9 hit and kept putting it off. All this discussion is making me antsy, might have to go and dust the cobwebs off him soonish...

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Ok i dont think this thread was intended as advanced kheld guide. I was only trying to give decent advice on getting into them. If you have one form, which 99% of new kheld players will, you need binds. You will end up with tons of powers very quickly and easily fill a few power bars. Ok you dont NEED them but I cant see how this will endear khelds to anyone. You seriously think it is feasible to enjoy playing a tri-form PB without binds? How do you do it? Bashing away on the +/- keys in the heat of battle sounds pretty intense to me. And guaranteed to leave you in the wrong tray for your current form.

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I usually use the Mouse (5-button) and a old Joypad (Gravis Gamepad Pro) when I'm playing CoH. Keyboard is relegated to chatting, though for some characters the numpad is used for team targetting/buffing/healing. The only character I've "needed" extra keybinds on so far has been my Bot/Traps Mastermind, and even then that's only really for pet control: Follow/Defensive All (Full Bodyguard), Follow/Passive All (Come here NOW DAMMIT!), Aggressive All (Lazy mode), Follow/Defensive Tier1, Tier2 + Attack/Aggressive Tier3 (Standard "Attack someone but don't give up my Bodyguard defenses" PvP bind).

The only exceptions to this rule is a bind for targetting multiple mezzer enemies (quantum/void/cyst/sapper/cairn in ascending order of threat), and whatever bind setup it takes to activate my travel power with one button (or 'one button held down plus a mouseclick' in the case of teleporting characters).

My Human/Dwarf PB has all his powers arranged onto the first 3 power trays which are all permanently visible, and I find it very easy to use them all. The first two (lower) trays are for Human Form with standard attacks on the lowest bar (#1) and toggles/Seekers/Nuke on the upper bar (#2), the third tray is for Dwarfie powers.

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Seriously someone tell me how they play a kheld with forms without binds? Please?

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Same as all the rest of my toons, the only difference on the Kheld to any other toon is that it has one extra "$$Powexec_name Energy Flight" statement in my Teleport bind text files to allow one Joypad shoulder button to turn on both Dwarf Form Teleport or Human Form Flight. And since I usually use "Super Jump" for getting around in Human form (I took it for Acrobatics), this is kind of a moot point...

My style of gameplay without using the keyboard? Pretty relaxed actually. I've found that I can react to things very quickly and jump around with a lot more precision than a typical Keyboard user. My "flinch" reflex makes my character jump and move forward/backward/sideways since my Left hand's thumb and forefinger never leave the Joypad's Directional-Pad and left shoulder button.

Usually a mission sees me seriously abusing the joypad buttons to move forward, strafe left-and-right and activate all my attacks, "looking" left and right and targetting with the mouse (and occasionally clicking a power bar icon to Switch form, set off a Nuke or use Photon Seekers) and maybe tapping the keyboard's 7/8/9/10 keys a few times to heal or self-buff if the need arises.

To go into detail:

My Mouse uses standard Left/Right for attack/mouselook, the middle button brings up my map, the right side button is used for my "target the quantum/void/cyst/sapper/cairn" bind, and the left side button is usually used to activate "follow the target", though it changes to "Taunt" on my Tank and DA Scrapper and "Patron AoE Webnade the target" on my MMs.

My Joypad's left Shoulder buttons "Jump" and Activate my travel power. The Standard Start/Select/A/B/C/D buttons activate the first six powers on my lowest tray (same as Keyboard's keys 1-6), which are usually Human form attacks + Build up. The 7-10 power slots on that lowest tray are typically self-buffs like Heals/Hasten and are turned on periodically via the keyboard. If I know I'm going to Tank for any great length of time, I switch the bottom and top trays around manually so I can use the joypad's buttons for the Dwarf attacks, Taunt and Heal. All the power icons on my middle and top tray are activated by mouseclicks.

The two Right-Hand Shoulder buttons on my Joypad cycle between enemy targets, but don't get used very often since my right hand is usually on the Mouse, which has it's own targetting bind on a side-button.

I've used this method for nearly two years now, it works great and I've still got a spare joypad somewhere...

To be honest, I think you'd be better off going for Melee and Ranged +Defence from set bonuses if you're looking at a PvP /SR. You really don't need Hasten and a stack of +recharge unless you really like SuperSpeed (Spines isn't an all-melee set and can make do with just SJ) or if you're trying to get a near-perma-elude build (and you can get Elude-like defence from just set bonuses).

If I was building a Spines/SR I'd probably build for a mixture of offense and +perception in Sirens (since it's a fairly good "Stalker hunter" build) and +Defence in Warburg/RV. Something like the below build.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.21
http://www.honourableunited.org.uk/mhd.php

Level 50 Mutation Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Spines
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Lunge -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg:40(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx:40(3), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg:40(3), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:40(5), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:40(5), T'Death-Dam%:40(17)
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:50(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:50(7), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(15), RedFtn-Def:50(19), RedFtn-EndRdx:50(42), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg:50(50)
Level 2: Focused Senses -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:50(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:50(7), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(15), RedFtn-Def:50(19), RedFtn-EndRdx:50(43), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg:50(50)
Level 4: Agile -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(23), DefBuff-I:50(23)
Level 6: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A), Jump-I:50(50)
Level 8: Impale -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx:50(9), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg:50(9), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(11), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(13), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(13)
Level 10: Practiced Brawler -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(11)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- Ksmt-ToHit+:30(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(46), LkGmblr-Def:50(46), DefBuff-I:50(48)
Level 14: Super Jump -- HO:Micro(A)
Level 16: Build Up -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(17), HO:Membr(34)
Level 18: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(40)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(21), EndMod-I:50(21)
Level 22: Stimulant -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 24: Aid Self -- HO:Golgi(A), Numna-Heal:50(25), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:50(25), IntRdx-I:50(37), IntRdx-I:50(43), IntRdx-I:50(43)
Level 26: Ripper -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg:50(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx:50(27), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg:50(27), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx:50(29), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(31), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(31)
Level 28: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:50(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:50(29), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(36), RedFtn-Def:50(37), RedFtn-EndRdx:50(37)
Level 30: Tactics -- EndRdx-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(31)
Level 32: Throw Spines -- Posi-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:50(33), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:50(33), Posi-Dmg/Rng:50(33), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(34), P'ngTtl-Acc/EndRdx:50(34)
Level 35: Dodge -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(36), DefBuff-I:50(36)
Level 38: Elude -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg:50(39), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(39), LkGmblr-EndRdx/Rchg:50(39), GftotA-Def/Rchg:40(40), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:40(40)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- HO:Cyto(A), HO:Cyto(42), HO:Cyto(42)
Level 44: Evasion -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:50(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:50(45), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(45), RedFtn-Def:50(45), RedFtn-EndRdx:50(46)
Level 47: Lucky -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(48), DefBuff-I:50(48)
Level 49: Quickness -- Run-I:50(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth:50(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]+10.5% DamageBuff[*]+2.5% Defense(Energy)[*]+5% Defense(Melee)[*]+7.5% Defense(Ranged)[*]+1.88% Defense(AoE)[*]+25% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]+63.8% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]+4% FlySpeed[*]+31.6 (2.63%) HitPoints[*]+4% JumpSpeed[*]+MezResist(Held) (Mag 2.75%)[*]+MezResist(Immobilize) (Mag 11.6%)[*]+MezResist(Sleep) (Mag 1.65%)[*]+MezResist(Stun) (Mag 1.65%)[*]+6.5% Recovery[*]+62% Regeneration[*]+7.56% Resistance(Fire)[*]+7.56% Resistance(Cold)[*]+4% RunSpeed[/list]<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>| Copy &amp; Paste this data chunk into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
</pre><hr />

Very expensive, but you're at a constant 44.7% Ranged, 42.2% Melee and 39.1% AoE defense. +84% Recharge means even without Hasten, Elude downtime is less than 50% (Recharge 355.4 secs, Duration 180 secs).

Dodge and Quickness can be switched around if you'd rather have +Recharge than Melee Defence in Warburg, And if you're dead set on Superspeed, you can drop Leadership- Maneuvers only gives 3.58% Defence to all along with a +5% Recharge set bonus. The 3rd and 4th slots in Combat Jumping are effectively "spare" too.

Alternatively, you could drop Evasion, move the passives back to the late 40s and take either Barb Swipe (for ST damage) or Spine Burst (for AoE damage, which would allow you to still function well in PvE) at level 2.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.21
http://www.honourableunited.org.uk/mhd.php

Level 50 Mutation Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Spines
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Lunge -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg:40(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx:40(3), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg:40(3), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:40(7), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:40(23), T'Death-Dam%:40(36)
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:50(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:50(13), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(15), RedFtn-Def:50(17), RedFtn-EndRdx:50(37), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg:50(46)
Level 2: Spine Burst -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg:50(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx:50(5), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg:50(5), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx:50(7), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(23), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(36)
Level 4: Focused Senses -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:50(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:50(13), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(15), RedFtn-Def:50(17), RedFtn-EndRdx:50(37), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg:50(46)
Level 6: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A), Jump-I:50(50)
Level 8: Impale -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx:50(9), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg:50(9), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(11), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(34), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(36)
Level 10: Practiced Brawler -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(11)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- Ksmt-ToHit+:30(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(45)
Level 14: Super Jump -- HO:Micro(A)
Level 16: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(48)
Level 18: Build Up -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(19), HO:Membr(19)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(21), EndMod-I:50(21)
Level 22: Stimulant -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 24: Aid Self -- HO:Golgi(A), Numna-Heal:50(25), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:50(25), IntRdx-I:50(43), IntRdx-I:50(43), IntRdx-I:50(43)
Level 26: Ripper -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg:50(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx:50(27), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg:50(27), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx:50(29), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(31), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(31)
Level 28: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:50(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:50(29), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(37), RedFtn-Def:50(40), RedFtn-EndRdx:50(42), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg:50(46)
Level 30: Tactics -- EndRdx-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(31)
Level 32: Throw Spines -- Posi-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:50(33), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:50(33), Posi-Dmg/Rng:50(33), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(34), P'ngTtl-Acc/EndRdx:50(34)
Level 35: Quickness -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 38: Elude -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg:50(39), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(39), LkGmblr-EndRdx/Rchg:50(39), GftotA-Def/Rchg:40(40), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:40(40)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- HO:Cyto(A), HO:Cyto(42), HO:Cyto(42)
Level 44: Agile -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(45), DefBuff-I:50(45)
Level 47: Dodge -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(48), DefBuff-I:50(48)
Level 49: Lucky -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(50), DefBuff-I:50(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth:50(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]+8.5% DamageBuff[*]+2.5% Defense(Energy)[*]+6.88% Defense(Melee)[*]+10% Defense(Ranged)[*]+3.75% Defense(AoE)[*]+25% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]+58.8% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]+4% FlySpeed[*]+35.1 (2.63%) HitPoints[*]+4% JumpSpeed[*]+MezResist(Held) (Mag 2.75%)[*]+MezResist(Immobilize) (Mag 9.35%)[*]+MezResist(Sleep) (Mag 3.3%)[*]+MezResist(Stun) (Mag 3.3%)[*]+6.5% Recovery[*]+52% Regeneration[*]+7.25% Resistance(Fire)[*]+7.25% Resistance(Cold)[*]+4% RunSpeed[/list]<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>| Copy &amp; Paste this data chunk into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
</pre><hr />

Take the Katana, melt it down, slap another chunk of metal in there and turn it into a Broadsword...

Unfortunately Katana is always going to be very weak in PvP because:

#1: It's got low burst damage.
#2: It's all Lethal damage, which is very highly resisted.
#3: It's got no mez effects other than Knockdown, which every decent PvPer will have protection against.

I've a 50 Katana/Regen myself and it's an awesome PvE soloer toon, but the combo is completely pants in PvP because you simply won't be able to kill anybody unless they're AFK. You can build it to stalemate just about any other melee toon and most ranged toons, but not to actually kill anything.

The only toons I've ever managed to kill with my Kat/Regen in PvP are squishies that simply don't know how to kite, or the few Melee toons that make it a point of honour to stay toe-to-toe until one of you drops.

[ QUOTE ]
You have to retreat from the AV to wait for the rest of the team to get back from the hospital

[/ QUOTE ]

When the rest of the team gets back from the hospital to find a dead AV and you AFK getting munchies.

"What the HELL happened to the Envoy of Shadows? That was a +3 AV?!?"
"Oh that. Well, you guys were gone, my Pringles were finished and I couldn't just leave mid-fight..."

True Story. (Take that you silly Defenderblastrollertanks...)

[ QUOTE ]
Female scrapper calling it twin peaks

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm guessing that's going to be a case of "chest slider all the way to the right" then?

I took Mace on my Bots/Dark to stack Web Cocoon with Petrifying Gaze so I could hold bosses. It works quite nicely, although it's somewhat annoying that you can't fully slot it until level 50...

Mace Mastery is generally the best PvP Patron Pool because of Web Envelope's -jump/-fly/-recharge effects, the +defence shield will also stack nicely with all the -tohit that /Dark MMs do.

The only other patron pool I'd really consider getting would be Mu Mastery for the Smashing/Lethal/Energy resistance shield (it also contains the only AoE immobilise MMs can get that prevents knockback, which is VERY useful for Robot/ MMs to keep foes in the Assault Bot's Burn missiles patch).

Ten, since you can have different blades for each hand...

[ QUOTE ]
Yeh its not really helpfull to put khelds in terms of blapper etc. I have seen khelds with full slotted dwarf forms who can tank REALLY well.
But then again its hard to describe them to the unitiated :/

[/ QUOTE ][ QUOTE ]
Dwarfs do not have taunt aura nor gauntlet. their taunt has toHit check in PVE. Theres more to tanking than just taking damage.

[/ QUOTE ][ QUOTE ]
In my not so humble but totally honest opinion on this, they are overall physically incapable of being "as good" as "any" type of properly built and played Tanker that there is at Tanking "anything".

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a bit of a general misunderstanding on how Peacebringers "Tank". Speaking as yet another player who has a 50 Human/Dwarf PB, I regularly ended up tanking on TFs and PUG teams whilst I was levelling, and usually ended up doing a fairly decent job at it. In fact, it was this tanking experience that led me to roll a dedicated team tanker INV/SS build.

Peacebringer Dwarfs are generally better suited to tanking than Warshade Dwarfs. Essence Boost, Dwarf Sublimation ("Reconstruction" clone) and Dwarf Flare are the reasons, despite the Warshade having access to higher +resists with Eclipse. It's true that a Dwarf's Antagonise is not autohit in PvE, this is their main weakness and was the source of much annoyance for me when I was trying to protect a team against the likes of Vengenced Nemesis or MoG'ed PPs. Dwarfs also do not have taunt auras, so you have to WORK at keeping aggro. It's still doable though, and providing you can keep aggro generally unless you're fighting Voids or certain AVs (example: with SOs my Dwarfie could tank Nightstar unaided but not Infernal) you won't die from the incoming damage.

Dwarf Flare. Dwarf Flare. Dwarf Flare. This is the substitute you use for a taunt aura because with enough +recharge you'll have a nearly perma PBAoE knockdown. Slot it. Spam it. Love it. I used Acc/Rech/Rech/EndRed with SOs, and with Hasten up I usually didn't need to use my 'taunt' much. You can get away with just a few slots in Antagonise. At least one of them HAS to be Accuracy, then Recharge or Taunt Duration. Mine was 3-slotted Acc/Rech/Taunt.

You're not a real tank, you won't hold rock-solid aggro so don't try to. Your role is primarily team damage mitigation, not holding the attention of the mobs 100% of the time. Although a higher threat modifier is applied to your attacks you don't *QUITE* have gauntlet, so you'll need to spam flare for both the 100% PBAoE knockdown and the "psuedo-gauntlet" effects.

It's quite possible for a Dwarfie to tank for a full 8-man team without any support toons or tanks on that team, although the Dwarf will have to be very mobile and on their toes. I generally preferred tanking for 3-5 man teams on my PB, but ended up as "main tanker" on more than my fair share of 8-man squads. On several occasions I even ended up main tanking when there was another tanker on the team, particularly for AV fights.

Don't forget that the main strength of the Kheldian AT is that they have the capacity to switch forms. The best way to play a PB is probably to only switch to Dwarf form when you need to (the regular tank goes down or a second group of mobs is aggroed, etc). In those cases, Dwarf is more than adequate to temporarily secure aggro and counter the threat of a team wipe.

If you do find yourself needing to be "main tank", unless you really like "teleport" then it's probably better to stay in Human form for travelling and buffing, then switch to Dwarf as you leap into a mob. Even while "main tanking" I often liked switching from Dwarfie to Human mid fight (providing the enemies didn't mez) - it lets you combine the two "Flare"s and release Photon Seekers or Nuke, then switch back to Dwarf again to mop up the remaining mobs. The only thing to rememeber is that you can't form shift for 3 mins after using Light Form- if you're really getting hammered then Light Form + a NUKE can save the day (and let you keep recovering Endurance through the nuke's -recovery) but without access to Dwarf Flare or Antagonise you'll have to rely on the Human form Knockback powers to manage aggro for the next 3 minutes (doable, but HARD).

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PS. I have a PB almost at lvl 30 and it sucks .

[/ QUOTE ]
Can't reinforce this anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mine performed fairly poorly until about level 35, after which the fun factor pretty much skyrocketed. I just didn't have enough enhancement slots to get all the heals and attacks "well slotted" until then.

A well planned out build will be more useful with PBs than most other ATs. Was very tricky to fit everything I wanted in before level 44, even by 50 I still didn't really have enough slots for everything with SOs...

My PB was built as a Blapper first and a Dwarf/Tank second though. Playing it actually felt a lot like playing my Regen Scrapper, but with ranged attacks and a less resisted damage type instead of "Integration". It was definately a lot of fun to be able to Blapp something upside the head and then smack it with Ranged attacks... with two Godmodes, Phase Shift, three uninterruptable heals, two "Nukes", three travel powers, a variety of mezzes/PBAoE KB's and a self-rez to fall back on...

That PB's been 50 for ages now, yet I still find it one of my most fun toons to play simply because it has the potential to combine the powers in so many ways. I can Hoversnipe or Blapp in Human Form, perma stun a group of mobs with Pulsar, attack with Single Targets or AoEs, Teleport/Fly "Dwarfie Bomb" a group, Nuke + Blue and switch to Dwarfie, play "Knockback" pinball, take the Psi CW King's alpha in Quantum Flight, Ghost missions with Quantum Flight + Conserve Energy, Turn Full Invis with SS + Quantum Flight, Lightform + beat everything senseless without worrying about incoming damage or mez..... or even Pseudo Tank!

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Gotta agree on spirit here, fire/kin will defianatly win from any blaster. The only set that could compete, would the fire/fire or fire/SS tankers.

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A Spines/DA wrecks AoE havoc far faster than Fire/Fire or Fire/SS Tankers, and my own Spines/DA has tied or beaten several Fire/Kins in a "see how many mobs you can kill in 10 minutes" match. I wouldn't make a blanket statement that "a Spines/DA is FASTER than a Fire/Kin" though, since it really depends on the builds and what mob type you're farming (Spines suffers from being mainly Lethal typed Damage).

Redside, it's really those Brutes + MMs I mentioned earlier and possibly a Fire/Rad Corruptor. A Robot/Dark/Mu MM that is specifically built for farming has greater AoE damage potential than a Fire/Kin/Fire contoller... mainly down to the "Electrifying fences + Incendiary Missiles" combo, which is long ranged, slightly greater damage and recharges slightly faster than a Fire Brute's "Full Fury + Web Envelope + Burn" combo.

A Blaster that focusses on Ranged AoE?

Generally you'll want to avoid Smashing/Lethal damage... so although AR and Archery have decent AoE damage they're not going to be as good. That leaves Fire (Excellent AoEs) or Elec (OKish AoE + a Ranged Nuke).

For your Secondary? Energy (for Boost Range) would probably be your best bet. Fire (Melee AoE Damage), Devices (+ToHit & Trip Mines, but no Build Up) or Ice (Ice Patch and Shiver let you AoE safely) could also work.

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is blasters and cors the ideal for aoa carnage or is there somit better

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Fire/Kin or Fire/Rad trollers, Spines/Dark Scrappers, Robot/ MMs or /Fire Brutes with a patron AoE immobilise, etc. will AoE "farm" more safely and at about the same speed (depending on Build) as a Fire/ Blaster.

Having said that, a well-built Fire/Fire Blaster is pretty much the undisputed king of AoE providing that survivability is not an issue (good tank, extreme levels of team buffs, etc...)

The only time I'd consider taking CoF would be on a Brute /DA.
Dirty Brutes get a Mag 3 Fear while Scrappers are stuck with Mag 2...

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I have personally played both Regen and Dark Scrappers to 50, and I know their strengths and weaknesses. I'm not stating that to appear arrogant, but to show that I am not basing my POV solely on meaningless figures.


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If you had taken a look at my signature i too have played them to 50 and are not basing my POV solely on meaningless figures.

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I did look at your sig, but I assumed those toons were from long ago given your views on Dull pain and CoF.

Once upon a time, many, many patches ago... Dull Pain's +HP was not enhanceable, and CoF did reasonable -tohit. In fact IIRC, CoF was once the main source of mitigation for a /DA because it did INSANELY high -tohit.

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CoF is NOT rubbish if you take the time to slot it right

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As of i7 in 'City of Data' (and I'm not aware of any changes via patches since) CoF grants:

-5% ToHit to Target for 5 seconds
Effect does not stack from same caster

This is enhanceable to a maximum of 7.5% -tohit. When fighting enemies higher than even-level this value scales down drastically- according to the data standardisation figures, versus +3s it's (0.65 * 7.5 = 4.875%) and versus +4s it's (0.48 * 7.5 = 3.6%).

Which means that versus a mob of +4s (a fairly decent level of difficulty, which might require thought rather than just jumping in and hitting things) a /DA scrapper running a fully slotted CoF has roughly the same mitigation as a scrapper running Maneuvers (3.57% Defence when 3-slotted). I think you'll agree that by itself without any other -tohit debuffs or +defence buffs to stack with, this mitigation is somewhat anemic at best.

These days /Dark's mitigation comes from three sources: Shields, Gloom and Dark Regeneration. Anything else save Immob/KB Protection is just wasted endurance, and as a Spines/DA I learned all about wasted endurance.
The "Fear" effect of ToF is also useless if you run Dark's Damage Aura or Team with AoE-capable toons.

And my DA's Build is here if you want to study it. It has not changed since the start of July, has been "main tank" on many AV fights and several TFs, and has financed the full IO'ing of at least two other toons.
When levelling, the Build had essentially the same power picks (with SOs and many more endurance issues!)

I appreciate that you might have had different experiences with DA, since DM/ has access to -tohit effects and an +endurance tool. However we seem to have gotten into a debate about secondaries, so I've been ignoring the primaries whenever possible in the above discussion (aside from the mention of Parry/DA)...

I knew it!!!!!!!!!

Wow, hey Kooma, Welcome Back!!

There I was thinking we'd lost another Monkeygoonite to WoW...

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Considering that Scrapper guide was made before Inventions existed is an unfair study. Since I9, SR and INV to a point have benefited alot more to inventions than other scrapper sets.

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Regen can attain Perma Dull Pain too and get 800%+ Passive Regeneration. Dark can ignore endurance issues, get higher attainable resistances and a much shorter recharge/higher heal/higher accuracy on Dark Regen.

It's still a reasonably fair study into the differences between standard slotting in each set. Most folks won't have their set IOs all slotted up before they hit level 50 after all...

Especially seeing that Inventions slotting applies roughly equally across all secondaries (+Def or +Recharge could be attained by a Regen, SR, INV or Dark, limited only by slotting and the secondary pool's available powers)

My Spines/DA had real endurance issues Pre-i9, and suffered from a somewhat lacking Heal one-on-one. My INV/SS Tanker had survivability issues against non S/L damage. Both toons have majorly benefitted from Set IOs, but conventional wisdom about the overall performance of the powersets themselves still applies.

Concerning SR, part of the set's inherent weakness (and one which IOs can't really compensate for) is that no other scrapper secondary is completely negated by the introduction of a few teammates. One solitary FF Defender can push a Scrapper's defense to everything past the 45% "soft cap", regardless of what secondary the Scrapper is. In that situation, SR offers virtually nothing except 'Quickness' and some +Recovery from Elude. Conversely, even with an empath a Regen will not be at the "+regeneration cap", and Dark and Inv operate using a combination of Heals/Resists/Defence. I agree that it's gotten much better solo with IOs though!