Local_Man

I have never liked the designation of "hard" vs. "soft" control. Different people have different opinions on what constitutes "hard" or "soft" control. Is a Sleep power "hard" or "soft?" What about a Confuse power? Some forms of "Soft" control are equally or more effective than "hard" control. For example, if an AoE Hold has lower accuracy so it misses a few foes, the controller could take more damage than if the controller used several types of "soft" control that provide complete protection. Some "soft" control can be made perma quite easily while "hard" control is temporary -- e.g. Spectral Terror vs. Flash. Is an AoE stun where the foes can wander all over the place and only minions and lieutenants are stunned better than an AoE knockdown patch where the foes stay in place and which can control Bosses?

And Blind's itty-bitty AoE aspect is a Sleep, not a Hold.


As Ketch suggested, please, please do not perpetuate some of the biggest bits of misunderstanding in the game. Players who dislike Confuse powers generally don't understand them. The net effect of Confuse powers depends on how well you understand them and use them. Used properly, Confuse powers have a negligible effect on the amount of XP and can increase the RATE at which the team earns XP by helping the team earn XP faster. My Illusion/Radiation Guide has a section discussing the misunderstandings about confuse powers in the context of Illusion's Deceive.

As I said in a previous post to this "getting really long" thread (so I can't blame anyone for not having read all of it), I have not yet had any personal experience with the PPP sets. (Too many alts, not enough time.) I've looked at the numbers some, but I don't have any personal experience with them yet. I HAVE tried out all of the Controller APP sets, so I can discuss my personal experience with those.

I currently have 4 Illusion controllers at level 50, with a few more in higher levels. Easily the most used APP power for all of them is the single-target blast. My Ill/Rad and Ill/TA use Fire, and my Ill/Storm and Ill/Cold use Ice. I find that my single target attack chain of Blind-Spectral Wounds-Blast-Spectral Wounds is fast and pretty seamless with a good amount of Recharge . . . there's a little bit of a gap before I can get the Recharge up there, but that can be filled with the AoE attack. Add in the additional benefit of a different damage type that is rarely resisted. That chain puts out a pretty good amount of damage. A minion goes down in one chain or less. A Lieutenant is down in less than two chains. I'm not usually a "DPS/DPA Min/Max" kind of guy, but it does a great job of doing damage to foes quickly, before the Illusory Damage heals back.

And that's why a fast attack chain is so important . . . the Illusory Damage. Kill the foe before the heal-back, and you keep the damage. That adds up to a big increase in the total damage you can do. That's why I recommend taking out minions and Lts. first, since bosses will take longer to take down and will probably last long enough for some of the heal-back. Since Illusion's PA is probably the best "control power" in the game for controlling multiple bosses (and AVs and EBs) in one shot, it is easy to save the Bosses for last.

I'm not sure that Mako's PPP provides much of an improvement over the Ice APP. Ice has a fast single target blast, Hibernate, an AoE cone, a Defense-based armor and a targetted AoE damage power. But I haven't tried the Mako set yet.

Most folks interested in the PPP sets are aiming towards Mace. Poisonous Ray is a single target blast, but Recharges in 24 seconds compared to 8. With a lot of Recharge, you still can't get PoiRay to Recharge quite fast enough. You would have to give up the single target attack chain, but PoiRay adds about 18% -Resistance. Some folks feel that the trade off is worth it. Most folks seem to be interested mainly in getting an additional pet from this set.

I'll probably try out the PPP sets someday. But I suspect that I will prefer the fast single target blast from the APP sets over the PPP sets.

A minor correction: Controllers have 8. Fire, Ice, Earth, Elec, Mind, Grav, Illusion, Plant. But we need MOAR!

Actually, my view is that Defense is NOT NECESSARY for a controller, even a mainly solo controller. I solo my Ill/Rad all the time with no Defense worth mentioning.

However, it is an option, and probably a better option for a controller who mostly solos than a team-oriented controller. When you don't have teammates to rely upon to save your butt, then lots of Defense can really help. The real question is whether the benefit of getting lots of defense is worth the cost. And that depends on how you play and how much aggro you draw personally vs aggro drawn by your pets and aggro eliminated by your controls.

So, if you don't want to make the sacrifices for a high defense build, and you are willing to use a more cautious playstyle, then you can do great without a bunch of Defense. However, if you mostly play solo (so that all the ally-only powers are not needed), then a high defense build is certainly worth considering. For a more team-oriented build, you will be sacrificing some powers that may, in the long run, provide more benefit for the team than personal defense for you might be -- but that also depends on your playstyle.

Don't take World of Confusion. The widely agreed opinion on the power is, "it sucks." The Radius is too small to be useful and the confusion pulses are very short. Folks who have tried putting damage procs in it say it is bad for that, too.

You actually have a few options. If you are looking for personal benefit, you could go with Combat Jumping. It provides Immobilization protection, maneuverability and a place to put a Luck of the Gambler Recharge, at a toggle cost that is virtually nothing.

You could always go for Mind Over Body, Psi's Resistance-based shield. Even with only one slot, it will reduce the damage you take a bit.

You could go with Super Speed -- it is faster than Fly and sometimes it is nice to have a second travel power. SS allows for quick battlefield maneuverability and makes it easy to lead your pets into the fight. (But I would go with CJ first.)

I went with the Fire APP, which offers Rise of the Phoenix, the only self-rez available to controller.

For team-oriented options, you could go with Stimulant. Ill/Rad does not have any power that grants Mez protection, so you could take one. You could go with Aid Other to supplement your AoE Heal, but that seems a bit of a waste.

Another kind of fun option is Fallout. (I did this on my Fire/Rad.) Consider this if you team with a lot of PUGs, or have a suicidal Blaster for a friend. Even with a single slot, Fallout does a lot of damage and a huge debuff. It is very, very situational, but in the right situation it can be a big benefit. Besides, it is kind of fun to blow up your teammate's corpse, especially since you have Recall Friend and Mutation. You could blow him up, and then hover overhead, recall him over the next group and blow him up again, etc. Fallout has a longish recharge, but the debuff it puts out is significant.

Plus there are a few somewhat sillier, more situational options like, uh, Group Fly, Air Superiority, Teleport, Kick or Boxing, etc.

Uh, I can't quite decipher what you are asking. I'll take a rough guess that you are asking the need for Defense and/or Resistance for Controllers.

And my response is . . . it depends. Thankfully, this game is not all about cookie cutter builds or it would get boring. Yes, it would be nice to have every character have soft-capped defenses to everything. Yes, you can soft-cap a Controller to some types or positions of Defense. The question is whether it is worth what you have to give up to get there. Maneuvers is one power pick. Weave takes three power picks.

I have said this several times: I am not a fan of getting high defense on controllers at the expense of control or team-friendly debuff, buff or other convenience powers. It seems that the Forums have build after build of "softcapped" controllers. I have certainly given advice on my suggestions to improve such builds, but my controllers will often have the shield from the APP set and that's all.

On a team-oriented controller, I feel his (or her) focus should be on providing maximum benefit to the team. That mostly means providing as much control, buffing and debuffing as possible, and having situational powers that can provide benefits at the right time. I rely upon teammates like Tanks and Scrappers to take the aggro. I rely on teammates like Blasters and Defenders to kill foes before they can do a bunch of damage to me. I don't mind having an occasional faceplant as long as I have helped the team move along faster and saved others from faceplanting.

I was on an ITF last night with my level 43 (now 44) Earth/Storm. I normally play Earth Controllers at range, doing what I can to avoid aggro because the AoE controls draw a lot of aggro. However, I was playing her a little bit more aggressive than I usually do because a buddy of mine was playing his Kin/Rad, and he's a really good Kin/Rad . . . I knew that if I was in melee, he would be sending out heals on a regular basis. Another buddy of mine was main tank, and the team had 2 tanks and a Brute, so I figured they would be pulling most of the aggro. As a result, I spent time in Hurricane, throwing out my AoE Controls, debuffs and damage powers and overall had a great time . . . even though I faceplanted about 4 times (which is a lot for me). We didn't exactly rush and got the entire thing done in just a few seconds over 1 hour. I added a lot to that. I'm glad I did not give up powers like Snow Storm and O2-Boost or Thunderclap to fit in three Fighting powers.

There are several ways to play controllers. High Defense builds can play more aggressively and gain personal survival at the expense of fewer powers to use and less benefit to the team. Personally, I tend to play my controllers cautiously, avoiding aggro as much as possible and rarely dying. I don't need high defense because of the way I play, but I have lots of tools in the toolchest. I like to have some situational powers that others might skip. My Fire Controllers have Bonfire for those occasional times when it is the right tool for the job (like the Recluse Buffing Towers in the STF). Most of my Stormies have O2 Boost for helping teammates.

My personal Illusion/Rad only has the Fire Resistance Shield, and it only has the base slot with an Resist IO. I might be able to free up one more slot for it was some creative slotting. I don't rely upon Defense. Instead, I use my control powers to avoid aggro. I use Deceive a lot, especially before the fight begins. Phantom Army draw the aggro, and I am cautious to avoid over-aggro. Solo, I tend to go somewhat slow because I prefer to spend a little bit of extra time to avoid taking damage -- I typically go through Tip Missions solo without being hit a single time.

If you got the idea from some of my recent posts that I encourage high defense builds, that's not accurate. I was just responding to several builds posted that were defense builds. I find it more of a challenge to forego the Defense and try to benefit the team more.

The Spirit had a lot more Camp. This show had campy elements, but just kind of glosses over them and lives with them. Pretty standard for TV versions of Comic and sci-fi themed shows.

The Spirit had camp elevated to such an extreme level that most people hated it . . . I enjoyed it and laughed my tail off. (Samuel L. Jackson in a Nazi outfit for no apparent reason? Other than to show that he is up there with the most evil guys ever.)

I thought the show was . . . decent. I'll keep watching to see other episodes, as I always enjoy seeing Summer Glau, but I won't be surprised if it gets cancelled. It is not nearly as good as Journeyman or Sarah Conners Cronicles, and those got cancelled.

Nope, I don't have first hand experience. The concept of my main Ill/Rad just won't let me take him Red side, so I haven't tried it. I have a second Ill/Rad on another server in the low 40's, and I've considered taking that one Red side to try out the PPP sets. I can certainly see how it is tempting.

The big problem I have with the Mace Poisonous Ray is that its recharge to too slow for the fast Blind-SW-Blast-SW attack chain that you can get with Fire or Ice Blast. It will work with Primal and Psi Blast. All of those are from the Hero APPs. Fire Blast does about 43 points of damage with a Recharge of 8 seconds. With enhancement, it adds up to a lot of damage that can be done very quickly, letting you kill stuff before losing out on the Illusory Damage from Spectral Wounds. I think the recharge on Fire Blast in my build is under 4 seconds.

PoiRay does 53 points of damage with a Recharge of 24 seconds, but it has an 18% Resist Debuff. Yes, that will add to its damage and help the team do more damage. Slotted up, the recharge on PoiRay will probably be around 10 sec. That makes a big difference. By the time PoiRay fires its third blast, Fire Blast has hit 5 as part of a smooth attack chain.

Are the other benefits of PoiRay (Debuffs, access to another pet) worth the trade offs? That's up to you.

Why don't you make one and post it for comments? We have had a lot of folks coming on the boards lately and making "Make me an uber build" threads. It is a little bit frustrating when people want others to do all the work of making a build. The problem is that we don't really know what you have in mind. I have taken the time to help several people who then later tell me additional information that makes my help worthless.

Make a build, explain why you wanted to take things, and ask questions about powers or slotting where you were unsure. Explain your playstyle, because a build to fit your playstyle may be different than mine.

For example, I would never, ever skip Hasten on an Illusion build. I want Phantom Army up as much as possible, and Hasten provides 70% Recharge. If you are not all that familiar with Illusion, I suggest you take a look at my Illusion/Radiation guide, linked in my sig. The guide has lots of examples of slotting options for Illusion powers. Some of the Therm powers are similar to Rad, and a lot of the information in the guide applies to all Illusion Controllers.

TA should be the king of debuffing, since it has no buff powers. Every other set has something that you can use to buff the team. However, TA has no -Regen other than EM Pulse Arrow with a long recharge (Rad has EM Pulse, too, plus the -500% in Ling Rad). The -Recharge in Glue Arrow is almost non-existant (Rad has -75% Recharge in Ling Rad). It has almost no -ToHit, since Flash Arrow only gives about 5% (Rad has 25% in Rad Inf). The Defense Debuff in Acid Arrow is decent, but the radius is far too small. The only really good debuff is -Resistance, with 15% from Acid (with its too small radius) and 15% from Dispersion Arrow (Rad has 22.5% -Resistance from EF, a toggle with a larger radius than Acid). TA has 20% Damage debuff from PGA (Rad has 25% from EF).

(Those numbers are off the top of my head . . . I probably should double check them.)

Rad outshines TA in all debuffs except -Resistance. TA has some nice control powers and a nice damage power to somewhat make up for it, but TA's numbers really are a problem. A lot of ideas have been thrown around, and many of them have merit: Increase the radius of Acid, add -Regen to PGA, Add more ToHit Debuff to Flash, add more -Recharge to Glue Arrow, etc.

I don't know. Never tried it or tested it. I don't recall anyone else testing it, although someone probably has. I use it in Phantom Army and it procs often because there are three army guys doing attacks.

If adding both debuffs to PGA is too much, then add either the ToHit debuff or the -Regen into Disruption Arrow. Disruption is a single-purpose arrow, so it could take another debuff.

It is just that if TA is supposed to be such a heavy debuff set, it really needs to cover the bases on debuffs.

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