Lobster
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:I've seen this mentioned a few times - what got buffed and when? I must have missed the patch note.Originally Posted by Tater Todd
Jack Frost should be awesome now! Have you tested him out recently?
I'm still working my dark/psi/ice through the DA arcs - I think she's at 98% judge & interface with t2s for both crafted (because rares apparently do not drop from the arcs. *sigh*). She's very strong damage-wise, although maybe not super-survivable (assuming something is uncontrolled...) and a lot of fun. I play with the volume way down so the howling doesn't really bother me. This game has always had serious volume issues for me - when I have the volume on I have it at like 8% and it's as loud or louder than my music with the relevant sliders in all places (OS, program, etc.) maxed. So my volume mostly sits at 4-6% and I pretty much don't hear anything. -
Quote:OH? Wow. That's big. For me at least.Originally Posted by Beelzy
Dechs,
Last I checked, they do not self-cap.
Although there is the possibility that they will 'fix' that in the future.
Funny, I was thinking "I'll do another dark/ tank..." and it sounds like a lot of others have the same idea. I'm torn btw TW & staff, but I figure I'll just go staff by default since it will be the "new" shiny.
My build is looking something like:
def: s/l: 31%, f/c: 45%, e/n: 36%, psi 27%
mel: 35% ranged 35% aoe 45%
res: s/l: 80%, f/c: 54%, e: 38%, n:72.8%, psi 86.4%
with AIO proc up & shield wall proc (thinking I might *finally* shell out for one) & no alpha.
I'll probably go cardiac for another ~4-6% resist and all that extra end, although the heal/acc/end vigor is tempting as well.
I'll need to skip CoF
and one of the staff attacks... we'll see, trying to fit CoF back in.
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Quote:Yep, for stuff with burn type patch attacks (arsonist & bot & I left out Oni's rain of fire as well) it will be off. I could only get the values that tomax actually has. For something like the assault bot burn patch, several powers use that same patch, so I wasn't sure what the actual tick # or dmg was.Originally Posted by Jeremia_Bane
I think there is some issue with attacks that spawn pets, like incendiary swarm missiles, the onis rain or the arsonists fire bomb. I mean incendiary swarm missiles do really stupid damage over time, i think the sheet only shows the initial impact damage of them or something.
For example Plasma Blast is 30.59, both on your sheet and http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...ts_Assault_Bot.
The two missile attacks however are listed as being magnitudes stronger on that site(150 and 295 vs 20 and 40 in your sheet, they also feel more akin to what i see ingame once the assbot lets those loose). Especially the incendieries are complicated as they also create the flames subpet which is the same type of subpet used by the tankers fiery aura burn ability effect, that will hit every 0.8 sec for the duration of the flames in addition to the 150 damage of the missiles themselves for another 83.5 damage.
I think your spreadsheet currently shows things like attack chain efficiency very well, but im not convinced by the dps numbers at all. Thats mostly due to hard to attribute game mechanics like the bruisers fury, -res and damage from attack spawned pets, not due to some fault in your methology though.
[edit:
Where are you getting the 150 & 295 for missiles? Multiplying it by 8 again? Swarm missiles is 38.16. I wasn't sure how many missiles could strike the same target. ] -
Quote:I think it may be a playstyle thing. /traps is really strong *if* you cater to its strengths and play like some of the posters above have described. If you don't like the more... "cerebral" (?) style of traps play, then I would say just stick with /time, /dark or /storm for steamrolling.Originally Posted by Little_Whorn
Strangely enough, I've had the exact same experience with bots/traps. I know it's supposed to rock and I build for all of the right things like defense, recharge, hp, and provoke, but it always seems to pale against my thugs/dark (or thugs/time or bots/time). Especially in DA where defenses tend to melt quicker, traps's lack of healing seems really noticeable to me. Maybe it just takes elaborate play like what Plainguy is describing. The other sets just seem much simpler and easily just as effective. It's a shame for me because I want to love traps, but I can't get it to work and compared to time or dark, just seems lackluster.
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Quote:Yeah, in the linked post I never claim that spreadsheet is an end-all-be all. It was just me tinkering with attack chain efficiency and such.Originally Posted by Jeremia_Bane
God, that damn forum just ate a huge post of mine because it logged me out while typing it up.
Basic summary:
I believe the spreadsheet linked earlier to be inaccurate, it lists genin as having triple the average dps than an assault bot, and lists his freaking incendiary swarm missiles(which if you are not familiar with, can almost slaughter an entire group on their own) with doing 20 damage, ie. sub tier 1 pet brawl strength. I think it also does not take level difference into account, tier 1 pets tend to fight
Edit: In the original there was something about taking into account things like the monstruos -regen of bots or even the lesser -res of demons for AV/EB fights aswell. Thats worth QUITE a bit of dps, and with a weak group(due to people leaving and having a incomplete team or whatever) is far more likely to be the difference between making it or not than a couple more or less dps on a mere (dead)pet.
Also - in addition to stuff like -res, it does not take into account the -levels that the lower pets are.
It is a fair comparison, within the boundaries of the methodology, of the tiers to each other. So ninja t1 vs beast t1, etc.
If I remember (or someone reminds me) what the math diff vs. +1 & +2 is, I'll add that in. -
Quote:Yep. But it hasn't actually affected me negatively much. Dark/dark/soul is pretty strong.Originally Posted by Jibikao
If you put proc damage in Fearsome stare, don't you get hit when the proc happens initially?
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Quote:Heh. Compelling argument! I may try that slotting if I do another dark/ controller. 6 procs per target? That's better than I was expecting and I wonder if PPMs will take a nerf when used in things that function like this (anyone tried it in /time's hold field???).Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
It would be awfully nice in fearsome stare, but I had to six slot that with cloud senses. Court order. The nice part about putting it into shadow field is that it takes full advantage of the great recharge that the set has six slotted and plus in a long fight you get six almost guaranteed procs on anything that lives for the entire duration for just the one cast time. That's right, six: the zero second proc fires twice because there's an initial hold component in addition to the recurring one.
I kind of like Fearsome being an actual attack - it's kind of like a subtle reminder to use it (I tend to not actually need to use FS or SF on my dark/dark unless I remind myself, as they just aren't needed for the +1/2 that I'm running the DA arcs at).
Tangent apology & re-focus:
Can't wait to fire up a new staff/ice stalker next week! I'm hoping it will be "the one" stalker for me that I play through to 50 and *keep* playing. My elec/nin I abandoned at 50. I have a really hard time liking elec/ beyond the telenuke. -
Quote:It would be nice if team members got credit towards their weekly arcs when in an Ouro team and NOT the leader... it would be extra nice if this fix fixed that issue as well...Originally Posted by KemLi
Best news I've heard all day. Thank you very much for taking care of this!
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Quote:Procs Per Minute I think. So if an enc has a 4 PPM rate, anything with a recharge 15s or greater (60/4) will auto proc.Originally Posted by Jibikao
Ok, I am a bit confused. What is the term PPM? SBE is Store Bought Enhancements. PPM is?
I am glad they are adjusting SBE enhancements. There is no reason why cash sets should perform better. That's bad for business. Cash enhancements are good if you are low on playing time and don't want to grind for them.
Also, the controller proc doesn't doesn't even need to be slotted in shadow field - I found the fear a much better place for it
.
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I brought up scrappers because I think the comparison is relevant.
If SJ stalkers aren't seriously outperforming the stronger scrappers, then I'm not seeing an issue - due to what I feel the role of the stalker is (single target melee damage, although some things like spines/ are a bit special) - and I would suggest the other sets be brought up to par *in some way*.
If they are outperforming, then I want to know by how much and how our current survivability is versus theirs, etc. It sounds like it is still lower.
I'll try and check through the pylon thread and see what the current numbers look like - last time I checked it didn't look like there was enough I22 stuff in there yet. -
Quote:I take it your are replying to me, so I'll reply. There's nothing for me to be "right" about in my last post - I haven't even taken position yet.Originally Posted by Reppu
Both quotes you provided were before my statement on the 28th (25th and 26th respectively), which... just makes it seem like you actually don't care that I'm trying and are just bringing up old wounds in an attempt to prove yourself 'right'.
In posts beyond the 28th, I've expressed outliers need to be toned down, so you don't overbuff underpowered sets. You should NOT buff up to an Outlier. I do not support 'everything should be overpowered', because I LIKE a challenge with out artificial Nintendo Hard crap put in to try to inflate the difficulty balloon to unsustainable levels.
I apologize if I come off rude here. I was just trying to figure out where you actually stand on balance mechanics - I've heard two pretty much opposite positions from you (hence the - I thought relevant - quote. The other quote was just to remind you of what you said to me in a similar situation). I wasn't insulting you in that post, to jump to insulting me takes the conversation to a different, unnecessary place).
I was not aware that you had changed your mind (I was aware that you were trying a different style of posting, I'm sorry if I missed an opinion shift that came with that). That *is* what I wanted to know though - you could have just said that.
I can't keep up with all your posts (nor would I try). I can only base my opinion of you on interactions that I have actually seen or been involved in and my forum going is somewhat restrained these days (maybe half the AT forums and one or two others).
Alright, now I have a concrete position from you - it sounds like it applies to all powersets? Unless you specify otherwise, that's how I'm taking it.Quote:You must nerf the outliers slightly, then buff everything to that new level of power. If you buff all melee sets to StJ/Titan Weapons, you make Ranged Damage even MORE useless, as Fire Blast is EQUAL to an AVERAGE Melee set, which means you'd have to buff ALL of them to atleast Titan Weapons!
Like I said, if I came off that way, I'm sorry, but that is not my intent.Quote:I'll cease this conversation due to your blatant disrespect. That was beyond the line of duty.
---back to the topic---
It sounds like:
*The argument is that SJ is significantly better than other stalker primaries in pylon (single target sustained dps) tests.
Is it significantly outperforming scrapper single pylon results as well? By what kind of margin?
A) If it's not, then my initial thought is that other sets should be brought up to it and SJ left alone.
B) If it is out performing scrapper #s, then I'd have to see which sets and by what margins... I'm not convinced that's necessarily a bad thing, as long as the margin isn't huge. If it is pretty substantial, then I can see where the nerf argument is coming from. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Reppu
In response, and in my defense, I say only the following;
You do know what assuming things makes you look like, right?Quote:Originally Posted by Reppu
And again, cease with the (not) subtle jabs. Be mature if you're going to chastise.
My point was that you frequently, aggressively attempt to poke holes in others' arguments, one as experienced as yourself in forum antics should know better.
My intent here is to get you to converse/argue with the same standards you seem to expect from others.
I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here with respect to your intents as a poster, and your desire to "tone it down".
So, let's start with the premise that SJ is outperforming the other sets (I don't know if it is, but you seem certain that it is). Now, why not apply the same logic that you apply with respect to mms, and bring the other sets up to match, instead of bringing SJ down?
Quote:Originally Posted by Reppu
Nerfing a set so another feels better about itself is the wrong way to go about it. It if you nerf demons, then what? Nerf Thugs. Nerf Robotics.
Hell, let's branch ATs. Nerf Phantom Army while we're at it!
No. -
Quote:I suspect that you would be quick to point out the lack of logic in that statement were someone else to utter it - just because no one disagrees does not mean that you are right.Originally Posted by Reppu
I ended up being right and not a SINGLE person has spoken up since then. So, I know what I'm talking about. IF there is a long basis of trial and error and you have sufficient data and information, you CAN base performance purely off of numeric testing, and not field. Is Field Testing superior? Of course it is.
Also, some of us (me, at least) have spoken up and are seriously examining the question and field testing it with actual play - I'm just not 50 yet so I can't provide complete/high end feedback (taking a break from PLing
). As far as level 1-35 though, they don't feel terrible. So there is that.
I would agree that for some things you can generate a decent analysis & make some good predictions just based on the numbers - single target DPS being one of the best cases for that. -
I tend to go with the patron pets on my controllers - but I build them all for perma-patron pets as well, so if you don't go for that much recharge it may not be a solid option.
My reasoning is generally that I have "enough" to do between my primary and secondary that I don't have as much time for just "blasting" as say, a dom, with the 1-2 extra attacks an epic pool might give.
I particularly like the /soul pet - she does psi damage and has really solid range, so she just sits back, safer than the other pets, and blasts away. I've heard really good things about the /mace pet as well, but I haven't used it in a while. Plus, mace comes with the s/l/e shield and a -res res debuff that does solid damage (poison ray) - if you really want an attack. The drawback is, of course, the redraw on the blast (and the theme, if you hate it).
On my dark/dark I went /soul. I took Dark Embrace with the base slot, and Dark Obliteration for some extra AOE + Summon Seer. FYI, Dark Oblit damage is = fireball sans the dot (27.53 unslotted, @ 50. Or about 100 with containment, I think) + a -7.5% tohit debuff. -
Anyone have any thoughts on high end slotting for the pets? Here's my initial plan:
Level 1: Summon Wolves -- HO:Nucle(A), S'bndAl-Dmg/End (3), S'bndAl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), S'bndAl-Build%(7), Empty(7), Empty(9)
Level 12: Summon Lions -- SCotMastermind-Acc/Dmg(A), SCotMastermind-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), SCotMastermind-Dmg/EndRdx(13), SCotMastermind-Rchg/PetAoEDef(15), LkGmblr-Rchg+(15), Empty(34)
Level 26: Summon Dire Wolf -- SCotMastermind-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SCotMastermind-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), HO:Nucle(29), EdctM'r-PetDef(29), SvgnRt-PetResDam(31)
This gives:
T1: acc: 59% dam: 90% end: 33% rec: 26%
T2: acc: 59% dam: 89% end: 33% rec: 49% def: 15%
T3: acc: 76% dmg: 96% end: 70% rec: 49%
The two empties in Wolves are the -res proc and one of the dmg procs from the -def sets, probably Lady Grey chance for negative.
I may swap the non-procs from T3->T2 for the extra acc. However, I have tactics so I'm not too worried about 59% on a T2. It will probably depend on whether lions or dires burn end faster. Right now I'm not having much of an issue with either (at l35).
The empty one in Lions...I'm not sure yet. For now I'm thinking another -res proc, even though I think they only have 1 attack to proc it with. Heal seems kind of pointless, as does +def (the lotg is mostly a mule, the fact that it buffs their roar is just a nice bonus!).
I rarely have to resummon as-is BUT I really like the flexibility I get from having some recharge slotted into each summon power (hence throwing the ATIO pieces into Dire, since I don't really need the +dmg set bonus. -
I did some actual watching of my dire wolves' end bars last night - it looks like the one with 34% end red rarely gets a low bar, while the other two with 0% slotted can get fairly low. This is with both buffs.
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Quote:I feel kind of bad.. I'm up to +2/0 on my sj/ea at 34 - running only SOs except for the ATIO set in the taoe. I'd call that at least passable.Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
Now? My StJ does crazy damage, and I feel like I can actually scrap right alongside Scrappers, Brutes, and anyone else that uses melee. Disrupt is also a great power, it turns minions into drunk Energy Drain fuel
I generally don't even bother with build up anymore either...
I do love me some Disrupt but man I wish they would have done something different with the graphics; it gives me headaches. I keep trying to find different color schemes to minimize it but no luck yet. -
Quote:Is Mids still bugged? It was showing like half (maybe just the finishers? Maybe I have something set funny about the combo math?) of the SJ attacks as doing HUGE damage last night.Originally Posted by Tater Todd
Ah, wow...looking at Mids now and I'm checking out the ST potential on StJ...quite impressive I think i have found my winner thanks Auroxis.
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I agree! I've wanted to like stalkers for so long (took elec/nin to 50, but that was it) and just couldn't do it...
BUT NOW. Oh yes.
I've been playing my mid 30s sj/ea in between "more serious" play on other alts and just loving her. I hit single targets like a truck... who cares if aoe is low? (Although sj's isn't the worst). The new AS is really just... so good. Early game attack chain issues were one of my main problems with Stalker builds - much less of a problem now.
Also - is anyone still using placate? I haven't used it once since i22. I mean, I *could* use it for the crit but I just don't feel the need. It's no good for a set mule so I'm debating dropping it... I was thinking it might still have some use as an OSH#$ power or vs EBs/AVs or something. Eh, I'll probably hang on to it with the initial slot, maybe respec and grab it at 49.
I've been wanting to do staff/ice stalker for a quite a while (originally wanted TW/ice...but staff/ will have to do) - I was going to do it even before the changes but now I'm actually really excited about it. -
Depending on your playstyle, you might actually be able to get some mileage out of bonfire as well - stuff like /pain with no solid controls can make very good use of it. /ff has some solid positioning stuff already so this may not be applicable to you.
Other than that, what Grim said.
(FYI: The single target blasts in the epics & patrons tend to be worse than your t2 attack and the aoes are generally close to your primary aoe damage wise, but on double the timer - or worse. ) -
I went a different route and put it in Spinning Strike because I don't like the TAOE sets, but it may be sub-optimal dps wise. Still, works for me.
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Quote:Tested a little tonight. Kinda tough with his build up and everything. BUT.Originally Posted by JayboH
Both, and it isn't boosting damage correctly either - should be in the 90s.
It appears to be working...oddly:
l32 dire wolf, unbuffed, vs -2 crab spider slicer:
[NO ENCS]
48.4 +3.74/tick dot chilling howl
33.88 vicious bite + 4.02 bleed
[w 3 35 dmg SOs - display as 64.2%]
97.37 (no dot, think target died) = almost exactly double 48.4
52.44 vicious bite + 6.28 bleed = wtf? this is slightly less than the 62% displayed...maybe the slicer got buffed?
Couldn't find any more level 30 slicers and I'm about out of time. -
Quote:Looks like 62.5% + 100% slotted in WoP = 90.99 recharge. (no hasten)Originally Posted by White Rabbit
simple question, what levels of global recharge are necessary to make world of pain perma? any advice would be appreciated. If it matters the mastermind in question is Bots/Pain and I wanted to dust him off for the Incarnate trials.
You'll probably need hasten for Painbringer, 132.5% + 98% slotted into PB will get you 90.91s recharge. However...there's a 15s downtime on hasten at that point, so you wouldn't have real "perma" painbringer. 132.5% + Spiritual Core Paragon will get you 3.7s downtime on hasten (with 3 50 ios in it - this is just a sloppy build I threw together to look at this) and PB coming back up 7s before it expires, which should keep it perma, I think. -
Quote:I saw that - are you wondering if it's boosting resist or just a display error or if others are seeing it or what? I'll try and remember to check tonight, I tend to just sit down and zone out and then do all my actual thinking the next day while not gaming... :/Originally Posted by JayboH
Yeah the reason I ask is because there is a bug:
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Quote:[Edit: Misread!Originally Posted by JayboH
How do you guys slot the Dire Wolf (using SOs or vanilla IOs?)
Vanilla IOs/SOs:
2 acc/3dam/1end
]
Currently I have him planned for the following on my Beast/traps:
Blood Mandate: A/D (or HO)
ATIO: D/E/R, A/D/E/R
HO: A/D
procs: Edict, Sov
That gives 81% acc, 96% dam, 49% end, 49% rech
I may swap a D/M HO in if I find I don't need the acc (picking up tactics I think).
Mostly just using him to store those 2 procs & have solid bonuses so I can put 2 dmg procs & purple proc in the wolves & 1 ?? (def?heal?), a lotg 7.5 & the other 4 ATIOs in the lions.
Slotting it for slow & fear just doesn't look worthwhile. It only has one attack with -def, so that doesn't look awesome to me either (compared with 2 attacks on the wolves ).
As for the OP's question (one of them anyway), the gargoyle has cone+aoe and a damage aura while the prince has icestomp. It's a tough choice... I'd probably just keep it up on both of them (I seem to recall on my nin/time I could keep both jonin buffed easily, without hasten).
I'll second Draeth Darkstar's lich slotting suggestions as well.