Leo_G
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Quote:I guess that is just one power that favors Dark Armor than it does the other powersets. I guess if you drop some caltrops then move into Spine Burst, perhaps. But it's actually quite good when paired with DA. You're already trying to get some of the minions to huddle around you for Dark Regen and I'd advocate using CoF over OG for 2 reasons:Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
I've never see this happen. I throw spines and watch them all turn on me and shoot. Never seen them try to run.
I respecced out of spineburst. I died during the animation before the attack went off too often. by the 11th time in one mission I just said f-it, and poof, gone. I dunno the numbers, but with 78% damage boost, it was just pissing people off without killing anything. Ripper, impale, throw, with lunge to fill the gaps worked better for me.
I keep thinking about looking at the math behind it, but then I remember how often I would start using it, the whole spawn would aggro at the beginning of the attack animation before the damage was dealt, kill me, and then not take any significant damage, sometimes none at all. F-that. seriously.
-If you build for defense, it helps a little
-Enemies get 'stuck' to eachother thanks to the fear whereas they tend to wobble away while stunned
If you're 'power building' then it's just another spot to put more procs in. I've got at least 1 in each AoE which adds up.
But maybe what I'm seeing in the 'portable caltrops' is a combo of Cloak of Fear and the slows/toxic DoT. Enemies just tend to slowly try to close in or slowly try to run away (or shaking in their boots).
I've actually had my guy running at +0x4 since he got the Cloak and haven't really updated his difficulty except to +1x4 in hopes I get better drops. Mind you, his build is incomplete, he has no KB protection (shocker there, missions aren't that hard even when he's getting bounced around) and has never had the fitness pool (for concept reasons...that'll change against my will in the upcoming issue tho >_>) so tended to run out of END at times. But all in all, he's still pretty strong despite those weaknesses.Quote:Mine runs on +1x3, but can do +2x4 if it is against council =). The AoE is really, not good to me, but I leverage AS, Impale, and Ripper for single-target brutality.
Villain merits make those very easy to get. I'll have one for my dark dark later tomorrow if I get enough time to play =)
And yeah, I've got him over 100 reward merits but spent all my inf on 2 Eradication quads (those buggers are not cheap but they're worth it ^^) so when I make myself 80 mill, that'll be the 1st thing he goes after.
But yeah, play Dark Armor for Stalkers! It's awesome if you build right
My next experiment is a KM/EA stalker who leverages Repulse after his opener. Only lvl 8 so far... -
Quote:Funny, I remember there being attacks that go off in 1.3, 0.8 and 1.5 sec that you can be using on things that aren't bosses and fall really fast...that's what the smaller attacks are for, afterall. I'm not going to Greater Fire Sword a minion that would have gone down with a Creamate...Originally Posted by HelinCarnate
Dead by the time you get to it? Not normally. Dead in the following 3.3 seconds after I get to it? If not a boss, probably. In the 2.67 seconds after I get there? Maybe, but I end up doing tons of damage when only a medium amount is needed.
The whole spawn does not have to die in 3 seconds, just your target in order to screw things up for you.
Your issue is user-side. -
Optic Lasers:
1. Telescoping Blast (ST energy dmg + -res **+** ST energy dmg + fire DoT) Ocular Focused(OF) mode, the attack is a narrow beam from the eyes. In Ocular Spread(OS) mode, the attack is a larger beam that will cause much heat and burns.
2. Telescopic Burst (ST energy dmg + -res; chance of stun **+** Narrow Cone energy dmg + fire DoT; chance of KB) In OF mode, this is a persistent beam from the eyes that is a moderate damage ST attack that lowers resistance. In OS mode, this attack is charged before firing an unfocused burst of energy that does moderate damage and can hit a few foes in a row.
3. Plasma Beam (Narrow Cone energy dmg + -res **+** Ranged AoE energy dmg + fire DoT; chance of KB) In OF mode, this is a narrow beam of energy from the eyes that is traced on the ground near the foes, hitting multiple foes with high energy damage. In OS mode, this is an unfocused beam traced along the same path but does less damage while hitting more foes.
4. Optic Laser Blast (ST energy dmg + -res/-def **+** Short Ranged ST energy dmg; foe kb) In OF mode, this is a normal 80ft ranged attack that does high energy dmg. In OS mode, the range is cut in half but the damage is increased.
5. Focused Beam (Sniper energy DoT, non-interrupt **+** Sniper energy dmg) In OF mode, this is a sniper attack that is instantaneous and isn't interruptible. You will focus a beam that starts out invisible then increases in intensity, all the while causing energy DoT. In OS mode, this turn into a standard sniper attack that is interruptible and does 1 round of sniper damage.
6. Recalibrate (Self Toggle minor -ToHit, activates Ocular Spread) Turning this on will unfocus the intensity of your beams to allow the user to hit more targets. It has several drawbacks, however, such as a small -ToHit debuff to self and causing Focused Beam to turn into an interruptible attack.
7. Caustic Plasma Strike (ST minor energy DoT; foe hold **+** Cone minor energy dmg; foe KB, minor chance of stun) In OF mode, you fire a blast from your eyes that erupts in a cloud of bright plasma that disables the target. In OS mode, your beam is larger and the plasma cloud is more like a plasma smog that might stun foes but the initial explosion will knock the enemy's down.
8. Plasma Gaze (Foe Toggle high energy DoT; Self immobilize) Cannot be used while Recalibrate is running. This attack will focus a beam of energy on a single target and cause huge amounts of damage for the time the toggle is aimed at the target. You can shoot some of your other attacks while focusing on your target. Maximum run time is 12 seconds.
9. Omega Beam (Cone Energy/Fire dmg + Fire DoT) Can only be used when Recalibrate is running. This extreme damage beam is the biggest and widest of your blasts that will swallow up entire groups in your gaze followed by a moderate END crash (just eats all your endurance, no -recovery). -
Quote:Stalkers' supposed team issues regarding Assassin's Strike has little to do with the animation time and more to do with the delusion that only AoE matters.Originally Posted by RabidBrian
Thats a horrid comparison. Your stalker, which btw there are multiple threads discussing the lack of a role for stalkers on teams (not waiting for them to AS is a big one,)
You've got to be an idiot if you expect me to believe every possible target for your Tanker or Brute is instantly dead by the time you get to it. So spawns are dying in less than 3 seconds?!Quote:has hide, is not automatically expected to take aggro, and therefor is not expected to start every fight off. When your stalker jumps into the mob, the rest of the team doesnt see it as their time to start fighting, they wait for the tank/brute. Right when a brute or tank jumps into a mob, the attacks start flying. Its not uncommon for squishys to attack through the tank/brute, meaning they will attack the same target. Enter in the corpse shooting.
Get real.
Considering you have to account for interrupt time so you can't be moving (both you and the server needs to know this), that can easily add half a second to the overall effective cast time of the power. Otherwise you're going to waste endurance.Quote:And also nearly two times longer huh? So when did 3 seconds become two times longer than 3.3 seconds? There are only two versions (not counting KM) that have assassins strikes cast times longer than TF, the blade primaries, which are 3.67. All the rest activate faster than TF. And with ET activating in 2.67 seconds, that makes the fastest AS activating 1/6 times slower, a far cry from half. The slowest activate a second slower, still not near half.
Yeah, it may not be 2x longer, but it's *nearly* 2x longer...[EDIT] And I was referring to Energy Transfer, not Total Focus. EM isn't the only set with 'Total Focus' animation anyway. -
Yeah, honestly, EM is already set up for porting to Scrappers with maybe a small tweek to lower the damage of its higher attacks then increasing the damage of a low attack or Whirling hands maybe?
The only thing that is forcing the wait is that the devs probably don't want to show too much favoritism by giving Scrappers their prolif and not the other melees.
ET already provides a benefit for Stalkers, like EG said. No compromise required. -
Quote:How about adding limited utility and only moderate Single Target control to that list?Originally Posted by Ultimo_
The set has very little AOE, and no ranged attacks.
Honestly, the set's obviously suppose to be focused on ST with only some AoE which is fine. So how about focusing on it's strengths? What were those strengths again?
Well, to me, that's like complaining you're using Lightning Rod on single AV fights and complaining you're only hitting 1 target. You don't have to ignore TF and ET for only hard targets like EBs, just use it on something at the start of the fight before things are dead. If I can get off an Assassin's Strike which is nearly 2x longer to animate, then your Brute can learn how to pick his targets too.Quote:While corpse pounding is not detrimental to the groups success, you are not exactly helping either. In groups you may as well just ignore the fact that you have TF and ET until you get to an EB or AV. -
Fire Dominator casts Char on Sweeper.
Sweeper is held and receives Fire DoT.
Sweeper is still taking Fire DoT....
*SUPER KNOCKBACK*
Sweeper is defeated.
Yeaaaah, that doesn't really make sense and would look silly and inappropriate >_> -
Quote:Use Spine Burst then Throw Spines and watch the enemies *slowly* run around like they're on portable caltrops while being ticked down by the Toxic DoT. I'm not saying the set has great mitigation, but it is far more mitigation than Fire gets.Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
But I see this as a potential disadvantage. The focus of dark causing -acc in every attack means it is reliable. You can build around it safely. Immobilize and slow don't actually provide significant mitigation (best you can do it pin someone down and break line of sight).
And I wouldn't even say Dark Melee's -ToHit is all that reliable considering it's all (or mostly) Single Target. Yeah, that enemy you're wailing on isn't hitting you very often but everything else around you will.
Also, don't forget about range. Being able to shoot stuff offers utility as well.
I guess it's all just opinion of the user. IMO, Spines is pretty poor for ST, not even mediocre. My Spines stalker has to run missions with no bosses cause he uses too much endurance to defeat them...that's pretty blasphemous for a Stalker...but he makes up for it by running x3 or x4 where all my other stalkers have to run x1 or x2. The AoE is really good to me. It's just too easy to pick apart a lot of enemies. Either start out with Throw if the enemies are too spread out, or Spine Burst if they're closer (and will be caught in my Cloak of Fear right when I start it). One will lead into the other when the enemies reposition and they'll be too slow to escape the finisher, Ripper.Quote:I feel it does mediocre single, mediocre aoe at the expense of mitigation. It sure feels like it doesn't have much mitigation. Though I do appreciate ripper.
Man, I think I need to log on my Stalker some more. Once I snag him a Theft of Essence Proc, it'll cover his only real weakness ^^ -
I'm probably not in the position to make suggestions to Energy Melee as the only EM character I have is my 34 EM/EA Stalker...but many of the suggestions to 'fix' EM by changing Whirling Hands still leaves Stalker EM in the exact same state...not really fair, IMO, when you consider that AoE dmg isn't even the set's problem.
On a set where the target is pretty much stunned the entire time, it doesn't matter how fast or slow the attack hits. And on teams, it's not detrimental to the groups success if your attack hits something that is already defeated...it's defeated so that's a success. End of story.
Where I think the set has issues is it doesn't have the ability or utility to protect itself from a group. Sure, you can ET one, TF another, Stun another and string the smaller attacks on something to stun a 4th but those animations take a while to get off and by the time you're working on the 3rd or 4th, the 1st is unstunned unless you slotted for stun...
I'd personally suggest making Stun a short-ranged Targeted AoE with a 5 target cap. Keep the damage and stun, just make it possible to stun more guys at once. Maybe even lower the mag to 2 for the AoE with an additional 1 mag to the target you used it on? That lets you stun a Lt and any nearby minions then toss your TF on the boss to stun him too. I'd totally love the set if it offered equal to superior control with the most controlly of melee sets (Stone and Dark probably...MA is now a contender too) with a strong focus on ST...actually, that's probably why so many people love Stone. It has great AoE control (Fault is amazing) and strong ST focus... -
Yeah, i'm simply relaying the info...like how people were talking about the adjustment to Shield Charge because of what Castle said in another thread about a mix-up in numbers.
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Quote:-Recharge, -Movement, Immobilize (actually has small mags in every attack that is stackable to immobilize minions while powers like Ripper and Throw Spines just has a 50% chance for that small mag immobilize) and Toxic DoT.Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
Technically, what is spines secondary? I just kind of assume it doesn't have one as such other than the DOT and the powers feel pretty random. In my mind I kind of consider it our fire melee.
That's particularly more secondary effects (that are spread across every power in the entire set) than other sets get. Some sets don't even get 1 secondary effect. Of course, this is on top of the extras like the range of its powers and the KD in Ripper.
Spines can't be our Fire melee because it doesn't do fire damage and it doesn't do good ST and AoE damage at the expense of mitigation. It can be said that Spines is more useful to kite with (I can still do it pretty effectively with slows and immobilize and range coupled together) to give myself breathing room until placate or Dark Regen recharges so that's the set's mitigation.
Are you asking me? I already get what I'm looking for from a 'Poisoned Knife' set in Spines.Quote:On this concept, what are you looking for that you can't get already with dual blades? just the poison?
But what I can't get from Dual Blades to simulate a literal knife user is the ability to throw knives. -
Quote:Well, first of all, Castle *is* going to look at the Spines set for the one fact that the set's secondary effect(s) are out of whack. I wouldn't put it past him to rebalance the animations as well but overall, and after playing my spines stalker exclusively for a few weeks, the damage isn't that bad for the animation time.Originally Posted by Beelzy
I thought of that, however, one of the major problems with spines is the speed of the animations. So you would need to have faster animations (closer to claws) to make it feel like a knife fight... One of the major problems with spines is the animations times are so much slower than any other set, something that really is calling for a fix. Poisoned Knives would be a way to make a spines-like set that was a little less annoying to play...
Secondly, if you're going for a realistic knife fight feel, then realistically, the damage would be crap. I mean, a knife isn't going to do nearly as much as a Ninjato (shorter katana from Ninja Blade) or even claws (which is 2 or more 'knives' per hand).
As is, the primary 'knife fight melee' attacks from spines would just be the tier 1 and 2 attack. Lunge, the tier 2, is already fast and the animation is appropriate. But the devs really need to fix Barb swipe. If it was fast with a DoT focus, then there's your 'knife fight' right there. The rest of the set is either flinging the knives or the over-the-top acrobatic attack (I'm actually a fan of that animation for Claws and Spines...you'll love it too once you Ripper 5 enemies with it for huge damage and Knockdown...it's probably the nicest attack in the set, IMO).
Lastly, I'm really really *REALLY* trying to be logical and economical with this. The last thing I want is for the devs to make *another* 'sharp handheld blade' set that everyone will go "-SIGH- Another sword set!?!?" Because I'd agree. We've got DB if you want to be all slashy, you've got BS if you just one one knife to slash with, we've got NB if you want to be all ninja, we've got Spines if you want to throw your knives alot and we've got Claws for if you want a mix of being ninja and throwing 'something'.
I can get behind a 'poisoned knife' animation for spines primarily because the feel of that set is *Strong* but Single Target damage-wise, it's rather low...which is all right...you're using a knife, afterall.
I cannot get behind requesting a 'poisoned knife' set because there's already too many danged options for hand-held single blades...Now a spear or scythe set? That's another story... -
Lol I went out of my way to watch The Real Adventures of JQ when I was a kid. It got me into watching the old JQ show later on.
Ha! It's why I love the Venture Bros today! Otherwise, the base premise would fly over my head.
Thank you Hanna-Barbera! -
Quote:And this is why I suggested in the Alternate Animation Request thread (yet no one backed up the idea) for a 'Knives' option for Spines. Because, principally, Spines *is* a poisoned dagger set that does lethal and toxic damage...it even lets you *throw* the daggers!Originally Posted by Beelzy
But seriously, I would like a poisoned dagger primary with lethal/toxic damage. Very stalkeresque, but unfortunately the game doesn't have any dagger primaries
although we should have whips by next March or June...
Hell, if they just gave you the custom option to do away with the body spines, I'd say it was close enough to a 'Poisoned Knives' set to satisfy my current Spines/DA concept which is the wielding and throwing of blades. -
Quote:I think another point (that just so happened to be drilled over and over by specific complaints about teams that go too fast in the thread) is that, *if* the team is rushing and steamrolling, you've got an Ace in the hole that you choose when to use.Originally Posted by SkarmoryThePG
If I wanted to have to rush from spawn to spawn lest I lose the buffs I got by defeating the last one, I'd play a Brute.
Addendum: I do not play Brutes. There is also a reason for this.
You've basically got a self-fulfilling buff on a fast team. Hit BU, then use a hard attack from hide on a weak enemy = 1 counter. Next group, hit with a hard attack from hide then placate for 2 (or more if the initial attack defeated something) crits for a total of 3 crits in a row to get 1 or 2 counters. Next group, BU and you get bonus damage added ontop of the damage buff to take out one target faster...so on and so forth.
As is, we're almost penalized for the speed you go. A bit fast and you'll have to go without BU and/or placate. Too Fast and you might not be getting off your AS. Really fast and Hide won't be back up before you engage again.
Addendum: Apparently you'd rather not have the option to 'keep up' if necessary, which is a shame. I myself don't feel that I *have* to be shoulder to shoulder with the other melees all the time, I do my own thing. But when I am, yeah, I'll end up critting alot. (Clarification: Just because we have scaling crits on teams doesn't mean you *need* to exploit it at every turn for it to be useful) -
Eh, the melee attacks feel too much like Thorny Assault. The venom effects sound interesting though.
I'd suggest revamping the concept from 'Venom-y Claws' to 'Just plain ol' Caustic Toxins'.
Maybe take a Fiery Assault direction with it except it won't copy the damage types of that set and do a combo of Toxic/Fire damage. I think the set should be about melting your foes into puddles...kinda like Magellan.
Funny, Magellan actually has control over how potent his poisons are too. He can produce tear gas, ichy spray or a contagious corrosive toxic ocean that can melt anything away. -
Aside: Spiders and Scorpions are not Insects or Bugs, they're Arachnids.
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Not *really* really arguing a point, just pointing out a generalization.
I didn't even realize people were suggesting to add KM type animations to MA. Is that what we're talking about here?
I can't say I've kept up with all the KM threads but haven't really heard alot of hooplah about wanting the animations for other melee sets...heck, most of the time, I feel I have to defend KM's animations like I'd defend MA's CAK animation...but all in all, I'm not really understanding your stance. You're against 'adding' animations to MA?
I know I'd be bummed if the devs passed over adding more acrobatic animations to MA in favor of basic punches, yeah, but I couldn't say I'd be against adding simple punches in the first place. -
Quote:Well, if landing a successful AS grants 1 counter even if the foe isn't defeated, there's still incentive to take out tough or annoying targets first especially if they're Lts. An AS that doesn't kill the target followed by some attacks that *do* kill it = 2 counters easy. Then you can go placate>BU or BU>placate the big boss ^^Originally Posted by Jibikao
Mmmmmm... then a Stalker is rewarded more by killing "minions" first because I can get "counter" faster.
This system at least gives me choices. By killing minions more, I get more counters which I can spend on "hard" targets. -
Quote:There's your problem. You're wasting all your time on Facebook >_>Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain
On my Global List, I think we saw 3 out of 72 log back in for the expansion. I have talked to others on FB, and they said they are waiting til there is new things to do on their 50's... Other than switch sides.
But so far, I've only taken 1 character through Pretoria (1.5 I guess because I had to remake him at lvl 12). It was interesting but after that, I kind of want that character's backstory to be Pratoria and kinda doesn't fit with a slew of other characters in my head (yet).
That said, I've actually been playing on my Spines/DA stalker project I made ages ago. Have to say, he kicks butt now that Cloak of Fear suppresses with Hide.
I've been working on getting him some IOs in my spare time. After him, I plan to log onto my MA/Shield scrapper and try respecing him into Cobra Strike and see how he plays.
All in all, I'm having lots of fun and I haven't even delved into the new sets, really. -
Well, the idea is, most Stalkers, if they're doing what they're suppose to be doing and eliminating hard targets by throwing in an AS, you'll have 2 counters by doing so (Using AS successfully, even if it doesn't kill the target gets you 1, following up and defeating that target gets you another).
From there, the main variable is, you've got BU for another hard Burst or you've got Placate for string of crits...but the balancing point IMO is will there even be anything left worth using it on? Would going for the 3rd counter be necessary or worthwhile?
I think that's where the meat of the proposal is. You've got these types of choices that will ultimately affect your performance. The knowlegable Stalker will know when to do what and there will be periods where no extra burst is used but saved to focus on a hard target later. The inexperienced Stalker still feels the meats of his labor by slaughtering those last few minions with prejudice.
All in all, I think it's pretty clunky myself. I think where the main difference between your idea, Jibi, and mine is the predictability. If there *was* a bar for your Killer Instinct idea, it'd be similar to having the Icons per kill but quicker and without the control of if you want to use it or not. -
Quote:Because, while I do enjoy reading and brainstorming ideas, I'm sort of in the school that doesn't think Stalkers really need an offensive buff.Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
I only have one problem - why haven't you posted this in the so.... stalkers thread yet? Get hoppin', man!
I hear all the arguments about how Scraps get better survivability and damage and how situational AS is, but in the actual game...I just never see it. Perhaps on paper, but when I play (and I play other stuff besides Stalkers), the game turns out vastly different.
I can't tell you how many times I've wished I had BU/AS on my Claws/EA brute, or how much less trouble enemies would have been if my MA/Shield Scrap had stealth.
While I was posting that idea, I was actually playing my Spines/DA stalker in a team with a Claws/? scrap, 2 Elec/ doms and a Fire/Dark corruptor at lvl 38 doing a simple mission, the Aura mission which the Scrap had never done before.
Guess who took the alphas? Guess who did a crap ton of damage? Guess who was the guy alive recalling dead bodies and working his inspiration tray and Resuscitator temp power? Guess who was leading the team and finding the Guardians to expedite the mission obviously set to high in difficulty?
But if you want to post that idea in the other stalker thread, be my guest. I'm not sure how powerful it would be on current stalkers but it certainly synergize with quicker team pace while still building on the concentrated burst style of Stalkers. -
Quote:There is a swing. Repulsing Torrent.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Even though Martial Arts is mostly kicks, each kick is visibly and obviously different from the other. One's a swing, one's a thrust, one's a sweep, one's a jump and so on. Much as I like Kinetic Melee, it's just fancy palm thrusts. There's not even a swing in sight. I guess it makes sense for what the set is, but I prefer Martial Arts how it is now.
Although I can understand there being limited variance in the palm thrusts, I can't agree that it's all 'arm circles'. Really, there's only 3 attacks that involves circular arm motions (Body Blow, Smashing Blow and Concentrated Strike). Repulsing Torrent, again, is more of a swing pendulum movement, Quick Strike is a fast palm thrust and the Bursts are 'energy charging' animations....Oh, and Assassin's Strike is a Hadouken. -
Quote:Soooo oversimplifying the animations.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Make it into Kinetic Melee? That set is basically the same twirling hands animation repeated in every power, only one power does it once, one power does it twice and so forth.
Tier 1 is a block with one hand and a palm thrust with the other hand.
Tier 2 is a waving motion followed through by guarding the face with one hand and thrusting with the other.
Tier 3 is technically a lock, pushing the enemy's guard out of the way but is kind of fast, just looks like waving the hands in a windmill motion then double palm thrust.
Tier 4 (Repulsing Torrent) is actually a throw. Grab at the enemy, pull him back then fling back in a fluid motion.
Tier 5 (Burst) Look like an energy charge then slam to the ground.
Tier 6 (F. Burst) Looks like an energy charge too but thrust it at ranged instead.
Tier 7 (Concentrated Strike) Okay, that looks like a lot of hand waving...but then it looks like element bending.
If you just want to simplify the strike, well then you've got 2 single palm thrusts (a 3rd that is ranged and 4th that is at the ground) and 2 double palm thrust. -
How about just making the immobilize in CAK suppress KB?