Laughing_Wolf

<QR>

Since this is a debate, I'll jump in here with my rather unscientific opinion. I had a regen scrapper pre-ED (thus, also pre- defense scaling) and, despite what everyone said, I took MoG and slotted it out. I loved it. It wasn't that power that I'd hit in preparation of the huge mass of reds and purples I was about to jump into. It was that power that allowed me to survive that huge mass of reds and purples -after- I jumped into them and realized I was in over my head. It's the only super-defense power that is truely useful at less than 10% of your hp. It's the only power I've seen that lets you keep fighting -after- you've already fought yourself to your last breath.

It really does fit the name. You're a regen. You jump into a group and start tearing them apart. Unfortunately, they're tearing you apart just as much and your team is falling left and right. You're in the red. Hit MoG. You're still in the red, but you'll probably have more hp than before you hit it. If you were invuln and hit Unstoppable at 10% hp, you're probably still going down. If you were SR and hit Elude at 10%, you're banking on that one lucky shot never landing. No, as a regen, you've already fought and are gasping at your last breath... that last breath invokes MoG and you're back at (functional, except vs. psi & toxic) full glory.

It provides a higher defense than any other tier 9 and, with just one resist enhancement (barring any large resist debuffs), you are taking only one quarter the damage you would have taken, but it's hitting one quarter the hp you normally have. That's a wash.

It's also the only tier 9 I've seen that doesn't crash your endurance - or worse, crash your endurance and your hp at the end. If you've survived the full duration (and you were going to die if you didn't hit it, anyways), then you hit Dull Pain and Reconstruction and, voila, you're once again at full efficiency.

As a disclaimer to my own experiences with MoG, I will note that I did not have an optimized build. MoG saved my rear end and, pulling agro with shockwave, allowed my team to retreat and regroup on more than a couple occasions.

I guess the main point I would make in this rambling, scattered post is that, to me, MoG does make thematic sense. The regen already has all the tools it needs to survive his everyday fight well before MoG. This Moment of Glory is truely a "I'm dead" moment that gloriously becomes a very resilient second wind.

It's like Wolverine pushing back against Jean Grey/Phoenix in the third movie... he's dieing, his flesh is peeling back and he's losing his footing. He calls upon a Moment of Glory right there. (Please note, my knowledge of Wolverine and the comics is limited almost entirely to this set of movies, so I use this scene as only an analogy of what MoG is like to me - not as any comment or comparison of what Wolverine should or shouldn't be able to do.)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only thing I can say is the mobs must be doing an aggro check of every player in range and the AI is splitting the aggro among the whole team so one player is not the main focus of the whole spawns aggression.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's correct. It has been this way since release, I believe -- I remember being aggro'd while running Invisibility back in beta. In a nutshell, the entire team is put on the awareness/aggro list, not just the person who initiated the combat. It's not quite that simple, since there are a number of extenuating circumstances that can happen, but in general it is correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm curious for some clarification of this. I've frequently run my Ill/Emp controller in difficult missions. I specifically built her for no agro; using only deceive, team buffs, heals and always running superior invisibility (prior to pets), I could easily avoid direct attacks, letting my hp get dangerously low with dull pain and just avoiding ae attacks. There have been several instances where the team wiped - everyone except for me. There was no new agro and I was able to just sit there and keep deceiving while rez recharged or the team returned.

I would understand if I was told simply that agro is randomized among the team upon engagement and that the controller (and stalker) are on the bottom of the hate list, but that would still have had me take agro after the rest had died, as long as the critters were aware of me.

<QR>
Trolls were hurling boulders at my poor super speeding, jump jetting blaster in skyway safeguard, also. It was quite ridiculous popping greens every time I got to a vandal hotspot just because every mob en route spotted and attacked me.

Agreed. Very nice write up. Gives me reason and plot device to upgrade in the future.

[ QUOTE ]
It does make it hard to share useful information though if no one is reading it.

Not reading it, or choosing to ignore it because they dislike it? Considering human nature and particularly the evidence provided by these forums I'd say the latter is the most likely culprit.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

I attempted to argue reason (admittedly with a little bit of sarcasm, from time to time) a couple years back. see the post count. see how far my patience held out - about as long as it would were a flea biting my ankle.

I am really excited about bodyguard. however, my first inclination is that it will be way too powerful. I already see certain mm sets or set combinations absolutely terrorizing (no pun intended) purples and even AV's in pve. what held them back before was that they'd get one-shotted for drawing agro with a heal. I've heard the arguments that they don't want to set their pets to defensive, yadda, yadda. I've already set up my macro to attack and still be set up to utilize bodyguard. it's painfully easy.

Interesting analysis. I would change the topic title to include the word "analysis" but, I also don't bother writing guides. Your post does raise a question of how extensive your experience with MM's is, though. I'm not saying this to be mean or critical, but as a previous poster pointed out, attacking mobs is by no means a debt warrant for the clever MM. Heck, I'm not "clever" and I have all three merc attacks and spam them regularly in a futile attempt to keep up with bots damage. Sure, if the first thing I do is toss a grenade and *then* have my minions attack, I'll be setting down a triage beacon and hope it and my medic can keep me alive. But, the only time I do that is when my pets are standing by in a choke-point ambush and I just want to draw an entire spawn into it and am certain I can duck before taking return fire. In general, I can use good judgement regarding when I can and can't safely throw a grenade. And honestly... it's very fulfilling to see mobs drop from *my* attack and not just my minions. I'll be looking more closely at the aoe attacks and not the cones, as I am always in the air with that toon. (Which, admittedly, is a significant factor in survivability - if the Tank Swiper can't swipe at ya cause he can't jump two feet, your minions can handle the rest.)

As an additional, the fact that shields come later on isn't really such a big deal. How long do melee toons have to wait until they can finally start resisting mezzes that they've been facing since at least 6th level? Most come at either 10 or 16. The additional resist will be useful when used correctly. Long ago, my blaster benefited greatly from running tough and I can't count the times that she got hit with something(s) dropping her to a sliver of life and walked away from the fight alive... panting heavily, but alive. Even with blasters getting the worst buff from it, that little buff was well worth avoiding the disgrace and debt of falling. In a geek's analogy: Why do people take weapon focus in d&amp;d if they're not fighters? It's only a +1 bonus, which is only 5%. Well, it's because it's a +1 bonus which is better than a +0.

My only real frustration with the ppp's is that none of them fit into the concept of either of my mains. I would have prefered more variety, at least in graphic or how the powers are portrayed, but I'll work something in. All in all, I'm really looking forward to adding some more utility to both my already very utility characters. (traps and ninjitsu)

[ QUOTE ]
So previously placate was rehiding a stalker against many people within a certain range( ie. AOE PLACATE), I noticed this once when a non-hidden stalker was testing with a few of us. When he placated the scrapper my blaster lost sight of him too.

Sounds like they fixed a bug that was making a power work in a manner that was not intended.

&lt;off-topic portion snipped&gt;

[/ QUOTE ]

/agree

I strongly disagree with giving placate an acc check in PvP, due to reasons stated on another thread and personal experience. It has too long of a recharge and affects too few targets to be compared to taunt, as I have seen it done.

On an awkwardly delusioned optimism, this will make me feel just slightly better playing my /ninj next to a /sr. While he stands in the middle of a crowd, getting hit by nothing and a stray grenade wanders over to the corruptor next to me outside of a fight... and hits me, of course... I know that, if it comes to PvP, he can placate one mob... I can smoke flash and blinding powder... if I haven't already been smacked down.

What I would like to see is stalkers doing damage on par with scrappers for their normal attacks. Of course, that may just be my MA stalker talking.

Sin Enterprises researches and develops quality-of-life technologies, providing individuals a more comfortable and self-reliant existence. This pursuit often runs contrary to the actions of power-hungry mobsters collecting "protection" money from the weak-willed and overzealous military regimes aimed at toppling a corrupt government only to institute their own tyrannical laws and subjugating people who only want to live their lives.

Sin Enterprises now finds itself in a position to hire powered security personnel to fend off attacks from these misguided pawns and even send some security details to enforce contracts or remind other groups of their obligations.

(( Sin Enterprises is a barely-off-the-ground vg with a minimal base - it's only one room, but it's decorated - and a good start toward the rest. The bulk of members are super-powered security just like crey agents or paragon protectors but there are upper rank titles for more business-oriented characters; these also must first go through the ropes as security/enforcers. Inquiries can be made through the website or in-game tell/email to angela sin, kira sin, or global @laughing wolf. ))

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, but I just can't see how Superjump was a problem in PvE. How are melees supposed to take down Sky Skiffs, with their high hit-points and flight? Or many other flying Sky Raiders in Striga Island or Terra Volta? Apparently Mitos in The Hive are also an issue. This isn't a problem in and of itself? I suppose we NEED ranged guys to do this now.

So now we're going to have to jump to perfection, hope to come up right next to them, AND hope we get that 50% chance of hitting it? That's lame. Very, very lame. The endurance use of it is high to keep it toggled too.

I've never heard Superjump called overpowered, at least not during PvE combat. You can't tell me this isn't because of PvP.

[/ QUOTE ]

here's a question I haven't heard asked or to which I haven't seen an implied answer. is every hero required to be able to defeat every villain? sky skiffs &amp; a few other mobs fly. isn't that part of their challenge? I remember how annoying they were when my ae-toggle scrapper accidentally agroed some. I could've stood there &amp; impaled them to death. or I could have jumped (I did have sj) and attacked them. instead, tactics came into play, I told my def to stop attacking them, pulled agro &amp; hid. what did the skiff do? he came to within melee range. problem solved.

so, expounding on the initial question: Where is it written that every brainless hero, without giving thought to the problem or any tactics that could be used, should be able to easily defeat every villain encountered?

[ QUOTE ]
Ever been a blaster grouped with an illusion controller and said to yourself.. why the heck am i doing anything wasting my endurance with the chance of getting aggro when the phantasms and phantom army will do all that for me? What it means is the Blaster has no role anymore because they can not stand up and do anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

looks like a double *yawn* response to this post and many others like it.

my obligatory post-relevant response:

Ever been a scrapper in a good team with blasters and defenders and tanks and wondered why you were bothering to attack when you could just stand around and nothing would change cause the blaster's killing everything, the tanks holding agro, the defender's keeping everyone alive...

yes, I will use your argument for my own means: "What it means is the <Scrapper> has no role <in a team> anymore because..." everything they attempt to do is already being done much more efficiently.

*yawn*

[ QUOTE ]
OK, Voltaic Sentinel is not a pet. I wish it was. I would say that Electric is a poor set for AoE unless you're using Thunderous Blast. Short Circuit is not usually slotted for damage and it's PBAoE. Both it and Ball Lightning are DoT. Also, if you think Ice is low damage, I'd suggest doing some research before facing one in the Arena.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with almost all of that, though it looks like it was posted in disagreement with my comments. voltaic sentinel... ok, so it's not a pet in the sense that it takes it's own agro. but, it does hover and attack. and it has a nasty end drain component to it (I'm refering to pve only) if slotted for end drain instead of damage. short circuit was not included by me as an ae attack. it's got the effective range of a scrap ae and far less damage. it's end drain again... and quite effective. I mentioned that electric has one ae better than a scrap ae. elec also has a hold.

as far as ice being lower damage... it is. it's lower damage, per the brawl index numbers, than other blaster primaries. I'm not in any way saying it's weak or that the damage numbers will be in the double digits. I'm simply saying that it's the lowest damage of the blasters, from what I see. in return, ice has the most status effects, not including kb. every attack is -recharge & -speed or it's a hold. and there are two holds in the set. I don't need to do more research before facing one in the arena. first, this whole post was about pve. second... yeah, I know they're nasty. they're actually arguably (based on opinion) the best blaster primary for pvp.

these points were made because someone inferred "the ae argument" is crap because ice & elec have weak ae's. I agreed they have weaker ae's than other blaster primaries, but pointed out that elec still has one better than a scrap's ae as well as end drain and a hold and that ice has status (the -recharge and -speed) and two holds. the two sets are hybrid controller/blaster sets.

[ QUOTE ]
Scrappers getting a higher damage cap due to their being "at risk" for being in melee is absolutely absurd.

I'd like to know what scrapper feels at risk in melee. My invuln scrapper sure as hell doesnt.

And oh wait, whats this? Scrappers can get bonuses from their melee, indirectly or directly. Soul drain, Invincibility, Soul Consumption, Dark Regeneration, Cloak of Fear. Not to mention the fact that certain powers are better suited for melee types in the first place. Transfusion, Transferance, FULCRUM SHIFT!!!! The power that lets scrappers exploit their 500% cap :OOOO

Anyone arguing about AoE on blasters can shove it. Elec/Energy/Ice gets crap for AoE.

[/ QUOTE ]

hehe... a little excited there? to answer your question, well... my regen gets a little concerned in melee. rather often. before you laugh, I don't have a cookie-cutter tough/weave build. and if anyone suggests that might be the reason, then might that also be the reason your blaster doesn't die? mine has tough, stealth (since stealth provides ... well, stealth ... and a higher defense than weave to blasters), cj and acrobatics and is *rarely* in debt, why doesn't the other blaster that complains about debt? so, to answer your question, non-invuln non-cookie-cutter scraps still face risk. depending on the team make-up, my scrap will face far more risk than my blaster. the reason is simple. I pick my targets and kill what I pick. (btw, your invuln is quite simply *very* powerful once invincibility gets tossed in the mix).

certain powers are better suited for melee toons. certain powers are better suited for ranged. healing aura from emps and rads is better for ranged so the def doesn't have to run into the group & get ae'd. same with dark def heal. siphon power is better for the ranged, assuming the kin avoids the melee also. isn't the fs buff also centered on the kin?

the ae argument is still valid. energy has 2 ae's, one with a higher brawl index than the standard 8' radius scrap ae and one with a lower. these are both much larger areas than the scrap ae. not as heavy as fire, but it's there. energy also has knockback and is probably the most solo-friendly set.

elec & ice are both hybrids. elec still has one ae with a higher brawl index than the scrap ae & larger radius. elec also has a hold, a pet, and a severe end drain ... a power which I've had elec blasters tell me lets them solo anchored missions with easy. ice is lower damage but has control. (psst... that means don't play this set if you just want to do damage damage damage).

[ QUOTE ]
1. Eliminate the 400/500% disparity. Scrappers have enough other stuff going for them that Blasters don't.

[/ QUOTE ]

the grass is greener... as a scrapper, I was thrilled to hear about this change & crits. I initially thought, "yay! now I can come close to blaster damage." then I thought, "how the bloody heck am I going to get another 300% damage buff on top of my SO's?" this might actually be a teaming incentive. aside from possibly dm's or a tray full of dmg insps... how does a scrapper achieve this without fulcrum shift or some such? or are my numbers off?

[ QUOTE ]
3. Blasters need defense that scales with range, including against status effects. Stateman's comments imply that the advantage of being a blaster is range: okay, then give us that advantage -- even to status effects. If a CoT behemoth cannot shoot me from over 120' away, then the CoT mage standing next to him should NOT be able to mez me, either. If I'm within the range of those CoT at 100', there should be an accuracy check for both their elemental and status attacks. But the odds of their attacks landing/affecting me should increase as I get closer to them.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is one of the more intelligent posts I've seen on here, with the exception of the gentle(wo)man that responded to my first on this board. perhaps not a status "resistance" based on range, but how about just a scaled defense based on range? so that both the capo or the mentalist you just blasted from 80' away either hits or misses, with all detrimental side effects based on that. this would give blasters an actual reward for staying out of melee and being... blasters. combined with the suggestion of less agro posted all through the boards, let agro also scale with range.

[ QUOTE ]
4. Sniper attacks should be aggro-free, or have a very small aggro radius. They're sniper attacks, after all: they're supposed to be stealthy, quick, deadly, and hard to isolate. If I snipe a guy, he should go down quietly, and if not, he should start looking around like "[censored]?" He should NOT be making a bee-line straight to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

very nice. give the mobs that same sense of "omgomgomg!" that players sometimes feel upon being sniped. that hair-raising, "wth? where is it? where is it? ouch! stop it!"

not entirely agro-free 100% of the time, but a good enough chance that one snipe or really long range attack might not bring the whole family would also reward ranged blasting.

and seeing a villain whip around looking for you would be worthwhile just for comic value.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
all pvp arguments aside (discussing pve only), I notice your toon list includes a fire/* blaster. mine is fire/fire. although I do choose to leap into melee when safe, I really don't need to. with a good tank, I'm perfectly confident standing back & spamming fire breath & fire ball. against +2's, I don't need the tank - hitting build-up & then the above combo will take all the minions down, then the addition of a blaze will take down a lt. I haven't seen a scrapper that can do that as quickly. safer, yes. quickly, no. fire is an extreme example but all the primaries have ae's.


[/ QUOTE ]

Build-up Wade in walking wtih Quills going, Hit Spine Burst, then jump back and throw spines and add ripper for added fun. Bam, mobs dead. Almost as fast Fire and completely safe while doing it. It doesn't matter if the tank holds agro or not.

As a blaster and as a scrapper, scrappers have it much better than blasters. Especially when you look at damage done over minutes instead of seconds. Will your Fire blaster out DPS a Spines Scrapper in a mission solo or teamed? Didn't think so.

[/ QUOTE ]

interesting point, but I call hybrid on it. there seems to be a hybrid primary amongst all the AT's. spines is the hybrid blaster. slightly weaker single target damage, but incredible ae ability. in fact, I have one. my spines/da can certainly tear through mobs with build-up quills, death shroud, spine burst, and throw spines. and yes, she's far safer than my blaster with no tank needed. I know I can pull that off an almost as quick kill on +1's with the spiney. however, with build up on fire breath & fireball, the kill is far quicker on all +2 minions. I don't run herostats, but merely by feeling I still have a sense of damage inferiority when I team that particular toon with good ae blasters. it's a great team, though.

solo, my fire blaster certainly won't out-dps a spiney or... possibly *any* scrapper in a mission. mob count is too low. and there's the tactics factor. I'm squishier as a blaster, I have to be more careful. in a team setting? with enough mobs, definitely yes. since you're using throw spines (the 9th tier power of spines), why not toss inferno into the comparison? in a team, the downtime from end lost & re-toggling defenses (yes, a blaster with defenses pre-epics) is very minimal and the danger is... shall we say arrested? heck, with a tank I've even infernoed purples that didn't die and lived to tell.

but, as my post right above this & below yours implies... scrappers are self-sufficient one-man teams. I will admit a spines scrap would almost certainly outdamage non-fire blasters, but that's a comment out of ignorance (played all the scrap primaries, only one blaster primary) in a team setting due to ae & mob count.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thought I'd post a further explanation about the Blaster damage explanation in "Ask Statesman."

That was - and is - the reason why Blaster damage is capped lower than Scrappers. I did forget to add that the ranged attacks of mobs deal less damage (typically) than melee attacks - and the Blaster is generally the target of raned attacks.

But many issues have come up - most notably, the perception that Blasters are too fragile at levels 35+. Their damage potential does not compensate for their low hit points.

And, of course, there's the complaint that some Secondaries have too many melee attacks - something that the Blaster avoids at all costs.

At the moment, Scrappers, and to a lesser degree, Tankers, are being analyzed. Once we establish a baseline, then we'll be in a better position to look at Blasters.

[/ QUOTE ]

even if mobs' ranged attacks deal less damage than melee attacks, and if we assume that blaster can always stay away from the mobs' melee range, mobs' ranged attacks will still hurt blasters far more than melee attacks will hurt scrappers. The risk to scrappers cannot compare to the risk that blasters go thru.

It's time for Statesman and the devs to acknowledge this FACT and do something soon. It'd suck to have to wait another 3 months when the FACT is staring every1 in the face for all that time, not to mention all this time beforehand.

[/ QUOTE ]

scrappers are also noted to be the best (with some exceptions) solo builds. it's ironic that blasters are envious of scrapper defenses while I, a scrapper by personality, am envious of the damage you dish out. this "risk" that blasters face is admittedly *far* greater than that faced by scraps... which is *FAR, FAR* greater than that faced by tanks.

my opinions may also be biased by the fact that I tend to run my blaster with tanks and I check the tanks for taunt and... ! ... if I feel at risk, often wait until I see a taunt go off to then decimate the group which the tank so kindly gathered for me. if they're not dead, the scrapper with his puny ae attack or the tank with his barely punier ae attack can finish them off.

please accept this post from a scrapper-preferenced player and player of all AT's to mid levels, at least:

[ QUOTE ]
Here is the problem states.

The ONLY way a blaster can outdamage a scrapper is if the blaster uses his melee attacks. The primary blaster attacks are a joke compared to the secondary. The melee attacks are several times stronger. This forces blasters to go into melee. This is especially true in PvP.

[/ QUOTE ]

all pvp arguments aside (discussing pve only), I notice your toon list includes a fire/* blaster. mine is fire/fire. although I do choose to leap into melee when safe, I really don't need to. with a good tank, I'm perfectly confident standing back & spamming fire breath & fire ball. against +2's, I don't need the tank - hitting build-up & then the above combo will take all the minions down, then the addition of a blaze will take down a lt. I haven't seen a scrapper that can do that as quickly. safer, yes. quickly, no. fire is an extreme example but all the primaries have ae's.

[ QUOTE ]
This goes completely against what you're saying, by claiming that range is a blaster's best defense. It's not. What good is range when the only way a blaster can actually hurt someone is by going into melee?

[/ QUOTE ]

disagree, again. I have fire-sword with 5 dmg & 1 acc. it's set to auto-attack. I stand back happily blasting away until something gets too close, then it gets toasted. that seems to have worked as a great defense for me, so far. killing lots of stuff really fast with ae works rather well, also.

I do think it would be more appropriate to say that solid tactics, understanding of what your role is, and... a good tank or a solo run is your best defense.

<remainder of post snipped as it was specific to pvp>

others have mentioned that scraps get a 500% damage cap. how is that such a relevant issue? +3 SO's take you to 230%. HO's take you to 300%. although I have no doubt it's possible, I would like to know how often it comes up that you can get an extra 170% damage or even 100% damage (for HO's) to make this worth mentioning.

remember I started this post commenting that I'm scrapper-preferenced? I am. scraps are my fav AT due to personality and style. often in teams, I felt that I was unnecessary because blasters were tearing things to shreds before I could even attack them. then i3 came along and tanks were then one-shotting +2's as my attack was going through it's animation - my strongest attack that would need to be followed up with another decent damage attack just to defeat that mob... and that same tank then laughs in the face of the 3 dozen mobs that would have torn me apart. maybe I'm a little bit biased about these issues since I don't have these problems with my own blaster. but, being "overshadowed" by the "more specialized tanks and blasters" sent my scrapper into solo mode for about 20 or so levels, coming out only to run respecs and eden trials cause I find them incredibly fun. I have little sympathy for blasters cause the smart blasters I've teamed with rarely die. those that get impatient and start shooting while the team is recovering or before the tank runs up die... and often get the other squishies killed in the deal.

I've played all the AT's and so far enjoy teaming with everything except energy blasters - even them, I can tolerate while playing certain toons that don't need mobs grouped & stationary. when I build a team with my tank, I get a def & as many blasters as I can. when I build a team with my scrap, I avoid blasters cause I don't like feeling useless. building a team with def or cont, I pick up a tank & scrap (letting him feel useless) and a few blasters. when I'm not in the mood to deal with ... a certain mindset likely to be found in blasters ... I pick up a group of all scraps, defs, and conts.

I don't post as often as I have opinions and even my 30 fire/fire blaster was still able to solo missions (with bosses) at +2 on the slider, I just feel it appropriate to applaud the thinking in this.

and of course, the nudge... towards global chat so I can finally link my sg's.

your team rocks, statesman!