LISAR

Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba

Then bring two scrappers. Problem solved.

Someone around here has a sig line that I'm going to bastardize:

"There is no problem in this game that throwing more scrappers at it won't resolve."

There's a lot of truth there. As Sam points out, there's very little in this game that gives XP outside of defeating spawns. I'm positive that you can't level to 50 on exploration badges alone.

Due to another thread, I recently cranked up an FF/Ene defender. He's slow. Very slow. After 5 years of playing, however, I think I've reached a point where leveling speed no longer matters much to me.

Once I find the time to tear myself away from Dragon Age and L4D2, I'm going to run a new, more accurate, leveling speed test between a kin/son defender and an elec/stone brute. This last test showed a 6 hour difference between the time it took my ff/ene defender to hit 13 and the time it took my claws/wp to do the same.

However, I did content with the defender (and hero side that meant a LOT of time wasted zone hopping) versus the brute that mostly did street hunting and paper missions. The next test will be identical. Street hunt to 5, then paper missions to 12, all done with accurate time tracking.

The point of all this? A scrapper will pump out more DPS than a defender. I don't care what that defender is. Two scrappers will dish out X amount of DPS. A scrapper plus a defender will push out Y DPS. Two defenders will push out Z DPS. I don't know what those values represent but I am very curious if what groups like the Repeat Offenders are capable of is grounds enough to leave defender damage where it's at. I'm betting the answer is yes.

I can't make the same case for tanks. Especially in light of GR going live and brutes (like my em/inv) moving blueside.

Tie in to the OP: Defenders and Tanks are the only low DPS archetypes in the game. Controllers would be with them if not for containment, but you can't ignore containment. Brutes have lower base damage than tanks, but fury punches them past tank damage with a pair of punches.

Is there anything *wrong* with having everyone be a damage dealer? Redside shows us that the answer is no.

What the powers team plans to do about the weak damage dealers blueside remains to be seen.

EDIT: oh... diminishing returns on buff/debuffs countered by a bump to defender damage modifiers. Tanks get a straight buff to damage modifiers with no change because they have neither crits nor fury. Damage caps are left the same. Hmmmmm.

Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba

Then bring two scrappers. Problem solved.

Someone around here has a sig line that I'm going to bastardize:

"There is no problem in this game that throwing more scrappers at it won't resolve."

There's a lot of truth there. As Sam points out, there's very little in this game that gives XP outside of defeating spawns. I'm positive that you can't level to 50 on exploration badges alone.

Due to another thread, I recently cranked up an FF/Ene defender. He's slow. Very slow. After 5 years of playing, however, I think I've reached a point where leveling speed no longer matters much to me.

Once I find the time to tear myself away from Dragon Age and L4D2, I'm going to run a new, more accurate, leveling speed test between a kin/son defender and an elec/stone brute. This last test showed a 6 hour difference between the time it took my ff/ene defender to hit 13 and the time it took my claws/wp to do the same.

However, I did content with the defender (and hero side that meant a LOT of time wasted zone hopping) versus the brute that mostly did street hunting and paper missions. The next test will be identical. Street hunt to 5, then paper missions to 12, all done with accurate time tracking.

The point of all this? A scrapper will pump out more DPS than a defender. I don't care what that defender is. Two scrappers will dish out X amount of DPS. A scrapper plus a defender will push out Y DPS. Two defenders will push out Z DPS. I don't know what those values represent but I am very curious if what groups like the Repeat Offenders are capable of is grounds enough to leave defender damage where it's at. I'm betting the answer is yes.

I can't make the same case for tanks. Especially in light of GR going live and brutes (like my em/inv) moving blueside.

Tie in to the OP: Defenders and Tanks are the only low DPS archetypes in the game. Controllers would be with them if not for containment, but you can't ignore containment. Brutes have lower base damage than tanks, but fury punches them past tank damage with a pair of punches.

Is there anything *wrong* with having everyone be a damage dealer? Redside shows us that the answer is no.

What the powers team plans to do about the weak damage dealers blueside remains to be seen.

EDIT: oh... diminishing returns on buff/debuffs countered by a bump to defender damage modifiers. Tanks get a straight buff to damage modifiers with no change because they have neither crits nor fury. Damage caps are left the same. Hmmmmm.

Originally Posted by Dispari

To the OP...

If you're in the snow realm, I think people throwing snow and snowballs is pretty much fair game. Same as people skating around and asking for a team to do BNY missions. It's like a whole zone dedicated to snow and fooling around, so someone telling me they're RPing and to stop throwing snowballs is like people trying to RP next to Hamidon and telling people that they're interfering by doing that whole raid thing.

Even though I'm an RPer, I recognize that the snow realm isn't "my RP zone" and I can't expect people there to drop what they're doing so that I can RP. If I want to RP uninterrupted, there are other places I can go. Even in that zone. You don't have to stand in the ski lodge, where there are hundreds of people coming and going, many of whom will almost assuredly not be RPers. If you insist, people throwing snowballs or doing emotes is just one of the general things that you'll have to deal with.

And really, what you're doing in the zone is no more valid than what they're up to. What would your response have been had someone said "Excuse me, I'm trying to recruit for BNY missions here and your RP is distracting. Can you go do it somewhere else?" You can't always expect people to conform to what you believe they should be up to in any given location. Pocket D and the ski chalet are not official RP zones.

That said, the person crossed the line when they started intentionally griefing you and especially started with the teleport stuff. At that point you were justified in sending a petition.

Originally Posted by Johnny_Velocity

Is that anything like the stubbornness and false sense of entitlement of the rabid unique name advocates? Yes, I think it is.

Since those terms can be applied to either side of any internet argument, you are being non-unique. Be moar creative, plz.

Merry Christmas!

Originally Posted by Westley

Yes it is. Well, that and stubbornness and a sense of false entitlement.

Originally Posted by Forbin_Project

Not even close. Try . . .

The boosters cost $9.99 each, and no matter how you do the math it doesn't add up to $40. bucks. Furthermore each booster advertisement at the NCSoft store clearly tells you exactly what you'll be getting along with pictures and short videos so you can see what the emotes and powers look like.

Originally Posted by GrinningSpade

Which brings us back to the OP. Do the GM's ban griefers like that? Or is reporting things like that a waste of the time as nothing will ever be done?

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow

Extreme example aside, there are few situations where killing things alone can't get you through the game. There are no situations that I can think of where only debuffing or only buffing or only control can get you through any situation whatsoever. Sooner or later, everything comes down to damage, which is why Controllers got Containment all those many years ago. Despite their being sold as team-centric characters, they still ended up needing to do damage. And from what I hear, they do well enough with that.

But it seems to me we're not on the same page here, everyone. Yes, all ATs can do damage, and some powerset combos from the "team" ATs can even do a lot, and some powerset combos can actually be survivable, and some powerset combos can actually be survivable AND deal damage. That's DESPITE their design, not BECAUSE of it. If anyone can look at Defenders, say, and claim they were, as a general AT, designed to be damage dealers or damage soakers, then I'll just laugh and laugh. But I highly doubt anyone would do that.

My point was never "can, under certain circumstances." My point was "is designed to, expressly." So far, I keep seeing the same point - some ATs pay for their teaming prowess with lack of direct combat capability (sometimes). Why? Here is my basic question. Why does this have to be like that? Why do we need dedicated fighters and dedicated NOT-fighters? What if the game were designed where everyone were a fighter AND something else. There would be no pure fighters. Everything would be fighter/something. Say, fighter/ranger, fighter/healer, fighter/mage and what have you.

I know I'll get told it's silly, but please, do take the time and explain why. And not just because that's how it is and it works fine. This is the reason I wanted to distance the question from the here and now, and make it more of a principle one, perhaps even a question for the distant future. How is a system where everyone is a proficient fighter AND something else bad? Does one's inability specifically and expressly in itself add to the game? You're still not doing everything. In fact, you may not be able to do much at all, but you mere do NOT miss the most crucial part. And yes, it all comes down to combat in the end, unless we institute permanent, defeating status effects or diplomatic solutions.

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow

The reason I consistently used words like "class," "fighter" and "healer" was to try and distance the discussion from the game somewhat.

Originally Posted by enrious2

Next time you wish to post a market idea, learn how the market works first.

Originally Posted by RevBlackwell

Ok, At this point i'm sorry I said ANYTHING! I would make a full retraction if possible. I still stand that the drops are far too lacking on several key enhancements that I am looking for and the 40 - 50 mil pricetags are completely outrageous. But you people and your inane replys that border on harassment really take the cake.

- - - END OF LINE - - -

Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood

Yes, but it's one of those topics that comes up at least once a month. We reiterate the same arguments on both sides of the fence. Occasionally it degenerates into a huge flame war with pointless name calling until mod8 locks the thread.

Originally Posted by Forbin_Project

Yes I recall one thread where someone was angry that he cancelled his account last December, (he didn't take the time to put anyone he trusted in charge of his SG, he just left without a word to anyone) and when he finally returned 6 months later he found someone who was invited to the SG after he left was now the SL and Customer Service told him there was nothing they could do about it.

Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan

". You could, I suppose, apply a slippery slope argument to that and say "well in that case you'd be very happy with just beating up on a zone full of AFK enemies" and to a point, you'd be right. That'd get mighty boring after a while, though."

That sort of 'PvP' would only be boring to you after a while?

we're just going to have agree that we'll never understand each other.

eco

Originally Posted by Boomie

I haven't followed any sport this year. I think as the years go by I care less and less of sports.

Originally Posted by Tokyo

Yup, Paix is back. But he says he won't be coming back to any of the farm zones. I miss farming him. Atleast his regen was somewhat entertaining to farm.

We chased Outlaw out. He's been on Freedom with the rest of the Elite PvPers.