Knightingale

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Never used Healing aura on auto with Kah and I guess i wont be with micro Kah.Guess it's just down to personal playing style.

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Absolutely.

I've been around the block, playing since feb with various alts and I've seen alot of playing styles, especially from Empaths.

I spent alot of time conversing and looking at other players builds. Players like Kathaan, Becky the Body and Flush. I teamed up ALOT with Black Medic as we were part of the same group of friends who played together alot and we practically dinged 50 together. All the way there we discussed what we were gonna take as new powers, how we were gonna slot them etc.

By the time we got to 50 we were both very different Empaths. Neither more valid than the other, just different. We'd tailored our Empaths to suit our playing styles.

As I said earlier my stated preference for area of operation was on the frontline with the Tankers and the Scrappers, always however making sure my HO could hit the Controllers and Blasters. A combination of Hover and Temp Invuln made sure that I could do this with very little risk.

BM (and I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong) was the type of Empath who would sit further back with the Blasters and Controllers and heal the Scrappers and Tankers from a distance. He also specced a few more offensive powers than me if I recall and acted often as an Empath/blaster.

As a team we worked brilliantly together and I think our team benefitted from our relationship. I rate BM as a top class Empath and there's not many people I'd rather have covering my back in a fight.

Personally I'd never be as arrogant as to say my way is better than anyone elses. We all play differently. I like front line healing, others prefer to sit at the back. I use keybinds, others prefer the mouse.

It's like the travel power argument, people always trying to make a decision on which one is BEST. But best to the individual is a personal concept. I happen to prefer Flight as my travel power, but I know alot of people who will vehemently argue for SJ or TP. I just prefer Flight. My choice and I've yet to find a compelling argument in my own head to change away from it's flexibility.

I'm sure some people would look at Gale's build and wonder why on earth I've taken particular powers. just as I sometimes look at other people. I personally can't understand why an Empath wouldn't take CM or TP Friend, I find them utterly invaluable. But if someone is playing an Empath and can do a good job without them then that's their perogative.

I personally find a fascination in bringing up someones info the minute I'm teamed with them to look at how they've built their Alt. I like to see the differences in how they've been built to any Alt I might have that's similar.

Sometimes I spec powers out for really bizarre reasons. For instance I got rid of the Crippling Axe Kick on my scrapper simply because the animation bugged the hell out of me.

Brother and Sisters of Paragon, I just think we should come together and embrace each others differences instead of berating them because we'd do something different.

After all that's why the game gives us so many choices. So we can diversify.

So like the Vulcans, let us celebrate Infinite Diversity through Infinite Combination.

As they say on Vigilence..... Vive la Differance!!! (or something like that, I don't speak french!)

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well i dunno how many empaths have respec on PvP builds but TG is now fully respeced in a PvP team build. Performing the maximum regarding Empathy. I enjoy the empathy set now even more despite the fact i still miss occasionally the glorious teams that we used to blast around Paragon (SL,EK,Dark Steel,Kianna,Malachi,Aria,FW,Ob) still now is much more fun and Empathy for me is even more adrenaline rush. Btw i not know how many out there have this but i think i got the fastest rez and cm in Paragon lol 3 slots recharge ftw!!!

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Sorry TG, I'll take your three slots and raise you to Six Slotted Recharge Rez and CM. All Plus-Plussed and with Hasten on. Reckon I might be a smidge faster on the draw. LMAO!!

(Kidding everyone by the way before we start getting into the merits or demerits of 6 slotting post-ED. My CM and Rez are 3 slotted too. Phew, think I headed that argument off at the pass! )

Understood Cybercel and I agree somewhat. However....

Firstly even if it weren't on spam I'd be dropping Heal Aura whenever I could. I've found that it makes no real difference to the amount of times I use it, just means I don't have to think about it. And I do try and time the heals to go off when I'm in an appropriate spot so they aren't wasted heal. (see my fourthly further down)

Secondly: As for it interrupting a life or death heal. Hasn't happened yet. Generally the Heal Aura has a relatively short activation time and very often (cause I'm a front line healer) it helps the target I would have targetted anyhow. I suppose it could happen, but not in my experience thus far.

Thirdly, I have stamina. Took it late in my respec though, due to me not really needing it. But I thought frankly that having it was the responsible thing to do as a healer cause I NEVER want to run out of End in a battle. And thus far I don't think I ever have. (Bar those bloody Malta Sappers!!!)

Fourthly, I have a different way of doing my Empathing to you I guess. Both equally valid. I do sometimes use hover, especially to avoid knockback affects and caltrops etc, but found it a bit cumbersome and slow without slotting. So I instead use SS to dash in and out to heal players. But mostly I stand right slap bang in the middle of the combat zone. I took Power Mastery as my Epic and heavily slotted Temp Invuln. I can pretty much stand in the thick of the action with the team without much harm coming to me. Dead handy. Hence my spammed aura generally hits the whole party unless someone has wandered off.

Fifth, like most empaths I am a Heal and Buff only kinda defender. Up until respec Gale had only 3 offensive powers and only one of those had any slots in it,and that was Psychic Wail which was my 'Last Resort' power. If my team is in really desperate streets and I can't keep the heals up then I'd trigger it. What it doesn't kill it stuns and often gives the team valuable recovery time.

Again, I re-iterate. I'm not an offender-defender. I do spot heal. I do enjoy Gale under ED. Yes it's Frantic, but it's fun.

What I'm stating here is my hints and tips for healing. They aren't for everyone. Not all Empath builds are the same. If you are the kind of empath who sits on the outskirts of a fight and target heals or zips in and out to perform you Healing Aura, then spamming the Aura probably isn't a good tactic for you. you're right, it would be a waste.

I'm willing to try new tactics. I'm willing to experiment. I've just found it to be an extremely useful tactic and all the teams I've teamed with since doing it haven't even noticed.

If Lodestar is online maybe he can comment, I did it during the TF yesterday for about 8 hrs and no-one said a word. *shrug*

Thanx to all those who did the SS TF yesterday. I had soooo much fun.

And GRATZZZ to all those who made it to the end. I did think for a min there that the AV was gonna gank us big time.

Sorry and commiserations to Raz who accidentally quit out and couldn't get back in. Mate if you want to ever do it again, just shout me and I'll bring Gale along for you.

Apologies for being flakey for a few hours due to PC probs. The problems are all And thanx for bearing with me.

So when's the next one ??

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I get what Imag means about us 'earning' our XP more now.

There were times back in the good 'ole days that I really felt like I wasn't bringing anything to the team, the tanks kick butt, and nobody was really getting hit...and thanks to my team build (read: minimal attacks) I had nothing to do but buff...and sometimes I really wondered if they would even notice if I stopped buffing (I didn't...I needed *something* to do). Although in this case it may have been more down to just being with a great team (Silence, Spad, Jane-Gogetter, Kirigirsu, Johnny Fiasco and others) we teamed together alot and we worked very well together. Then we did the Shard TF's...yay!

But now, I have to work alot harder, heck, sometimes I don't even get time to buff properly!

Oh, and Hero Builder agrees with the 13% figure.

But personally...I enjoy Empath more now than I have in a long while...long live ED!

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Absolutley agree with what is said here.

I was considerably lucky during my I4 days. I mostly teamed with a bunch of regulars who let us all perform our roles well. I never felt like a spare part with them, always felt like a valuable member of the team, and we seemed to get ourselves into all kinds of scrapes. Our team had two Empaths, myself and Black Medic and our regular team had enough going on to keep both of us regulars on the Healer Board for a few months. Understand this was a fabulous team, we could have blitzed most missions on the strength of our tanks (Honsou, Kakarok and Catiene Winters). But it was also a very very generous team that allowed everyone to play their role. These people are great friends and we still have a laugh on TS and team up now.

However. Pick up teams were different as a rule and there were times when I did feel a bit of a make-weight. Ocassionally chucking AB or Fort or CM as needed. There were times when I wondered if they'd even miss me if I was to go AFK for a long period.

I also agree with Empath in that I find Gale ALOT of fun to play now, kind of a shame I've already reached 50 and she's semi-retired.

Please don't anyone mistake our discussion here about how hard or not we were hit as a complaint about it. I DO actually prefer to play Gale now that she has more to do. All we were trying to say in previous posts is that ED hit us pretty hard too.

It's just that we Empaths adjust better than most archetypes and complain less. hehe!

Also Syn, the point Empath makes at the bottom of her post....

"heck, sometimes I don't even get time to buff properly!"

....is EXACTLY the reason I now use the auto activate on my Aura. It allows me that axtra time to do all the buffing etc.

It may not be for all Empath, some may not notice a difference, some may find they burn through their endurance too fast, some may just not like it. It's a tool like any other, and I have just found it makes my life that little bit easier.

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Oh yes..... and yup Syn, Stamina comes in well handy now I've resorted to spamming my Healing aura during battle.
It's dead handy and I'd recommend it to all Empaths.
a) you don't need the perma click for Hasten anymore so use it somewhere useful
b) With stamina and a couple of End reds you don't notice the end drain at all.
c) It gives your team a safe haven to run to if they need a heal and you are busy.
d) It sometimes catches teammates you may not have spotted or just happen to be in range. Meaningyou can concentrate on the more problematic people.

Best thing I ever did!

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With as little offence as I can put it, but if an Empath - or Rad - starting spamming Heal Aura/Radiant Aura in my team, they'd be gone before you could say "Oooh, green light!" - or I'd leave - and have done so in the past. Spamming auto-hit auras is completely lazy and artless, not to mention annoying, in my eyes and the eyes of the players I team with. To each their own, but the best Empaths I've teamed with have been great spot-healers - and have never had occasion to spam heals, prior to or after ED.

Rant over.

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Promise I didn't take offense Syn, but I had to respond.

You seem to be implying that by spamming Healing Aura all the time, that an Emapth then neglects to do spot healing. That's just not true.

Spamming Healing Aura is not lazy in the same way having Perma Hasten auto activate wasn't lazy.

It was my choice. Now I don't need Perma Hasten anymore I have the auto-activate toggle free to use on another powerset. The only one in the Empaths skill set that really lends itself well to this is Aura. Maybe it is a little lazy to take this out of my hands, but Aura is your least effective power as an Empath anyhow. It's heal isn't particularly strong and it's only useful to people within range of it's radius, which isn't that far.

(Saying that, Heal aura pulled or fat out of the fire a few times last night if I use it while boosted with Power Build up. In those instances it's a good way to heal alot of points to alot of your team in one go.)

I'd respectfully suggest that if you prefer running with an Empath that doesn't at least consider that trick then YOU are the one losing out.

By putting Aura on Spam you get all the benefits I listed in the previous post. The MOST important being that it allows ME the extra time, freedom and flexibility to target my heals and my buffs more often and more thoughtfully. How can that NOT make me better at my job on a team ? How can that not make my targetting better ?? As you put it, I can now concentrate on the 'artful' healing and buffing rather than the unartful Aura.

I think, and I think most other Empaths would agree, that the best tool in my arsenal is Heal Other and this is the tool I use most of the time. Remember also that having Aura on Auto-Activate doesn't provide constant spam, it queues the power for activation just like you clicking the button yourself. So if I'm in the middle of Healing a teammate, and then I have CM queued already it'll just wait. Just means it's one less thing I have to think about during a heated battle and hence makes me a more efficient and better healer as I can concentrate on the things that are really more important. i.e. Heal Other and buffing with CM, Fort and AB.

Personally I'm not sure what you find annoying about them ?! *shrug* Is it the animation ?? The noise ??

Aura's are kinda artless anyhow. They are a power based on either luck (getting everyone in your radius) or you need to pre-warn everyone you are about to drop it (a la RA). Generally I find Heal Aura pretty useless because of the lack of target option. However it can play a vital role in keeping a teammate alive if he/she is badly hurt and knows he just needs to retreat near you and an Aura will trigger momentarily.

I guess we can agree to disagree on this,

Frankly in my opinion if you only team with Empaths who don't consider this trick you are just making life difficult for yourself and the Empath in question as he/she now has an extra item on their healing agenda to think about on top of healing, buffing and rezzing you.

And to be fair I don't think most people even notice that Heal Aura is on Auto. Ask Lodestar. We did a TF last night, the Shadow Shard one and in all the battles last night I spammed Heal Aura, nobody complained once. I don't think they even noticed. How about it Lodestar ??

Fair enough Syn, I can see your point if you team with an Empath or Rad Defender who just stands there and spams. Then yes, that is lazy, they aren't doing their job properly and yes they should get kicked from the team. But what I'm talking about is using it as another tool in your arsenal. Hell if I did that on any team I'd EXPECT to be booted!!!

It's like anything in life. If you can automate a part of a task to make you more efficent then you can increase productivity, which is what I'm doing here. IMHO Empaths that don't consider using this trick (and it may not work for everyone I'll admit) then they aren't exploring ways to maximise their potential.

TBH it's a tactic that I discovered by accident. I was in a team and nipping off for a Bio. Team was doing quite well and as an Empath I was quite quiet. So I put myself on follow to one of the blasters and started the Spam. Telling them, I'd be two mins and if they needed a heal just run close to me.

When I got back two mins later the team were in battle so I just took the controls and carried on with the targetted heals and the buffs, but forgot to turn off the spam aura. I just found it very very useful as it took one of the more mundane tasks out of my hands and allowed me to concentrate elsewhere on making sure people had CM and Fort. Since then it's a tactic I use alot.

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I did some random testing with the help of different empaths, and the base value of healing aura is 13%.

I like Nightbringer feel that empaths got of lightly with ED. The problem with empathy is like most other builds is the lack of perma hasten compared to I5. If we dont include that nerf you were hardly affected by ED.
The biggest problem I feel that empaths have is that the damage is nerfed because you cant 5 slot it. So damage went from very low to nothing. And there by you lost all real soloing ability. You can still do it but it takes a hell of a long time.

But overall I feel that the empathy set was buffed teamwise cause you are now a great addition to a team instead of barely being worth your xp.

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Oooooo controversial!!! hehe

I feel as an Empath on a team I've always earned my XP. Especially since Tankers got so nerfed and herding started to disappear from the game.

With ED it's now a struggle for me to fully support an 8 man team. I'm right now as I type this playing through one of the Shadow Shard TF's and it's frantic!!!!

But I'm coping.

I think alot of people THINK that Empaths didn't get too badly nerfed because most of us are healer orientated, and not Damage orientated. Also we don't complain much, just get on with it.

Like any of the archetypes you REALLY need to have played that archetype at a decent level to really understand what was done.

I've seen people bandy figures around left right and centre and it's easy to hide behind such stats. But truth is if you talk to most high level Emapths they'll tell you that:

a) Their heal ability has dropped around 35%
b) Their powers take longer to recharge
and c) Perma Hasten is no longer a requirement

Figures don't tell the story, it's an experience thing. More happens in a battle than just laying down a blanket of heals. Hence you "Heal Rate" becomes largely irrelevant. It's all about the "one shot heal" amount and that has suffered badly.

Take the battles I am waging tonight. Currently we are facing hordes of Nemesis. Almost my entire time is being spent throwing heals about, spamming my Aura and the ocassional AP when required. It's not leaving me much of a chance to keep everyone CM'd, or Forted.

Pre ED I could have had this team looked after, had them all CM'd and Forted the top 4 who needed it constantly. Now it's just become a frantic rush to just keep them alive.

Which is why you increasingly see two Empaths working side by side now. Either splitting the team in half and taking 3 each, or splitting the duties, one healer and one buffer. I've worked with both Kathaan and with Black Medic in similar situations.

Oh yes..... and yup Syn, Stamina comes in well handy now I've resorted to spamming my Healing aura during battle.
It's dead handy and I'd recommend it to all Empaths.
a) you don't need the perma click for Hasten anymore so use it somewhere useful
b) With stamina and a couple of End reds you don't notice the end drain at all.
c) It gives your team a safe haven to run to if they need a heal and you are busy.
d) It sometimes catches teammates you may not have spotted or just happen to be in range. Meaningyou can concentrate on the more problematic people.

Best thing I ever did!

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I know some Empaths use numpad keybinds for healing a specific party member (numpad1 heals member one, numpad2 heals member 2, etc.) - they could be useful in a PvP zone. Presumably, you could use the alt, ctrl, and shift trigger keys to apply different buffs - CM and Fort, for instance. I'm sure someone could knock up the relevant binds... or if no-one picks up the slack, I might be inclined to do so.

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I use combat Empathy binds in numeric keypad for healing specific party members and i am now binding CM as well in that way especially with the new Empathy PvP build (cm 3 slotted for rechrg ftw! ) i ll try create a quick list of them and post

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I already use the numpad for the Heal other function. Been using binds for a long time. (although a list of yours would be fab TG as I can see if I've missed any!! )

I think we're getting bogged down in specifics here, rather than addressing the point that I was trying to make. I'm not specifically talking about Empaths. More a general rule, even with all the keybinds and shortcuts and tricks of the trade in the world (and believe me I use alot of them on Gale already!) there are times when you HAVE to be stationary. And a patient and clever stalker WILL hit you during those times.

Those were just examples. There are hundreds of powers and power combinations for all the archetypes that require you to stand still because they are interruptable or have a long animation time. All I'm say is that yes you can be in motion for probably 95% of the time, but the Stalker only has to wait for that one 5% gap. Or at least that's the way it seems. Believe me, Gale and Rogue fly and bounce and run and move and dance little jigs, but they still get got.

Probably makes it harder for the Stalker, but I'd wager most of them actually relish the challenge of hitting a moving target.

And even if the AS misses first time around (or second time, or third), he/she just resets and plays the waiting game again.

Actually the "missing" AS I've heard repeated ad nauseum so far from the Stalker population but it's something my Stalker hasn't witnessed yet. He seems no more inaccurate than my blaster. Again I'll reserve judgement for the later levels as I'm not sure if there is a learning curve engineered in that makes you a smidgen more accurate in the lower levels. *shrug* I'll keep an open mind on this one.

Masterminds in CoV are I find an odd Archetype to fight against. I duelled with Mechanical Mistress in PvP and I found honours about even. If I could corner her without her pets I'd get her. But the minute the pets were brought into play it was bye bye Rogue! It was a nice game of cat and mouse and I thought honours were even with her.

Again it's a case of finding their weakness and exploiting them, just as it is with all the other archetypes. Difference between fighting a MM and a Stalker..... I don't need all the prep work, just me vs them and a nice fair fight where we share the spoils of war. And that's the way I reckon it should be.

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But I'd just like for me to be able to take my toons into a PvP zone and have a fair fisticuff type fight with a Stalker the same way I can with all the other archetypes.

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The thing with Stalkers is - at least with the good ones - they're rarely going to let you get into a position where you can have a "fair fisticuff" fight with them.

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Good post.

I feel the urge to point out that a straight stand up "fair fisticuffs" fight is far from fair on the stalker.

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Yeah but I'd make it fair and PROMISE to just use brawl!!!

Sorry, bad choice of phrase.

To be honest, and I'm not calling anyone a coward or anything here so please don't jump on me, I think it's the hit and run nature of the Stalker that frustrates people.

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Which is why the frankly ridiculous advice of "Keep Moving" annoys me so much. My blaster HAS to stand still when sniping. My Empath HAS to stand still while delivering RA. When my scrapper triggers Integration she stops and guess what...... stands still

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All very true, but surely the aim of PvP is to team - you shouldn't be a defender standing still and on your own when casting RA for example - your team should be protecting you from stalkers, certainly the good teams I've been against have absolutely no problem in trouncing me.

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All I'm really saying here is that it's impossible to be stationary all the time. Certain powers or certain tasks REQUIRE you to be stationary to perform. And all the slotting in the world isn't going to help you against a patient Stalker who has been stalking you and waiting for just that moment. That is, as has been detailed in most of the posts in this thread, their job and their one "trick". If that was me as a Stalker, that what I'd do.

Especially as an Empath. If you've ever played an empath in a high intensity battle (like those we have when my team is perhaps fighting at the Hotspots in Sirens) you'll know that often you may call out for everyone to "gather for RA", but often they don't all get to you in time. Probably half the time I drop RA it's as an opportunistic "They are all in range and they are low on end and now's a good time" basis. Point is most of an empaths powers, bar the Healing Aura are pretty much staionary powers, and in order to keep a big team healed you need to stand still for the majority of the time targetting and healing. It's hard to do that bouncing around.

Yes your team should hopefully protect you, but it just brings me back to the point I made about a patient Stalker. If they are patient they'll wait hidden on the outskirts of battle and just come in and nail me at an opportune time.

Or at least that's the way I see it working. As I said I'm creating my own Stalker to try this out for myself and see if it is as easy as I think it is. I don't think any of us "Whingers" are gonna be swayed by the testamonials of people on this forum who are Pro-Stalker, we'll only change our opinions by experiencing the other side of the game ourselves. BE the Stalker! That's what I'm trying to do.

Oh yeah and is it just my Integration then that forces me to stand there while I scream and beat my chest ?? That activation animation bugs me!!!! So yes I have to stand still to put that one, and it becomes more annoying when every blimmin AS I get knocks that toggle off again!!!


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Stalkers do indeed need to wait and then strike when the chance arises and are usually quite devastating when it happens - but to me this is EXACTLY the role of the stalker, and EXACTLY what Assassins Strike implies by the very name of it and EXACTLY why I chose to be a stalker in the first place.[/color]

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Totally agree, and that's why further down my original post I did say that I didn't want the archetype nerfed or changed. I think it's fine the way it is frankly. What I don't like is the perceived amount of trouble you have to go to to find and kill one.

Their "hide, hit and run" tactics I guess lend themselves to solo or paired play rather than teams, but I still reckon a team of them would be devastating. Each one patiently co-ordinating and stalking and then simultaneously AS-ing. I'd like to try it personally, maybe I'll assemble an "Assassin's Strike Force" when I get my Stalker into PvP. See if they actually wreak as much havoc as they do in my imagination.

Syn: I read through your comments and at this point I neither agree nor disagree entirely. The first half of my post was a frank admission of my lack of time in PvP and my feelings about what I experienced there. You're opinions are noted but until I experience that for myself then my feelings will always be what I've written about.

But it was never meant as a definitive dig at Stalkers. It was never meant as a THIS IS THE WAY IT IS statement. It's a this is the way I feel currently statement.

I'm glad you think that my trying the other side of the fence and creating my own Stalker is a refreshing change. I feel that it's important to REALLY understand what I'm talking about before I make any rash judgements or decisions.

It may be that I come back on this forum and admit to the populous I was wrong. It may be that I come back and say "You know what folks, ignore all those Stalker folks, they're talking nonsense. I have a Stalker and Im unbeatable and uber on PvP"

In my mind everything is now up for grabs. I'll come back with my results and my "unbiased" view in a few weeks. And I'd urge anyone who feels the same as I do to do the same things.

I see the Stalker as an honestly interesting and new Archetype. It's thus far in the early levels alot of fun to play. And I'm secretly looking forward to PvP with it. I don't want the Stalker nerfed. If you decrease the Assassin's Strike you nerf it's only advantage. If you boost it's defence to compensate you are pushing it towards Scrapper territory. And I don't want another Scrapper set.

What I'd like to see is a little help for the other Archetypes in combatting them without all the perceived prep work. I freely admit I don't know what these measures should be yet. I'm wracking my brains and shrugging my shoulders. I'll let you know if I come up with anything.

And as an addendum, my "Cockiness" note wasn't aimed at anyone in particular. But I think we've all read posts on this thread and others from people who just wash over the problem with a cerain amount of bravado and cockiness. Instead of adding anything constructive to the proceedings they often come across as "Well I don't have an issue so you shouldn't too, tough cookies pal!"

I don't think those people are constructive or helpful and I kinda wish they'd just not post. Or have a seperate thread called "I'm Great I Am!!"

I may start it up for them to go post in now.

Alot of people on this forum may say that they have little trouble with stalkers, they may say they are great in PvP. But when they are people like Stalk-Obot, Syn, TG etc they also explain why, try to give handy hints and tips which are worth trying and often take on board your comments. Sometimes they accept them and agree, sometimes they disagree. That's debating. I like that.

I've had a great exchange with Stalk-Obot on a similar thread for instance.

It's the people who just post "I'm great, I have no problem, get over it" type posts that I skip over and ignore.

My 2 inf on the subject.

I got to about page 11 of the thread and it just seems to be going over old ground. So I'll just say this. (Which I know will just fire up the general posting populous some more!!)

1) In my CURRENT opinion there IS a balance problem. Simply put these threads wouldn't exist if there wasn't. (Ouch controversial statement number one!! ) And whenever I've been in PvP it's almost ALWAYS been a Stalker at the top of the Most Wanted list. Should a single Archetype dominate that list to such a degree ?

2) PvP/PvE etc. I will freely admit here that I'm a bit of a PvP noob. I will freely admit that I don't have a PvP specced toon. I will state for the record that I've been playing this game since Feb and have mid to high level characters in almost all the Hero archetypes. I can handle my characters pretty well. I'm not cocky enough to say I'm the leading expert on any of them, but I'm pretty competent.

So all that being true, why in PvP, regardless of what Character I bring online, do I only ever have problems with Stalkers ??

All the other Villain AT's I can have a fair fight with. Some I win, some I lose. Doesn't bother me a bit. Honours are probably about even. But Stalkers ??

3) Prep time and needed abilities. I've read alot of advice above here and also on other threads. I've tried most of it (where I have the appropriate powers or teams available) with a variety of alts. Some of it is pretty good advice, some of it is frankly [censored]. (or just doesn't seem to work for me. Anyhow I don't want to go into that too deeply, it's been done to death!)

While YES I still expect to lose out to a specifically set up PvP player, I can't believe that ALL the Stalkers in PvP and specced specifically for PvP?!? Aren't there any Stalkers who just pop in for some fun like we heroes do ??

And why do we need to go to so much trouble, prep work, insp buying and ensuring we have the correct teammates around us and are functioning correctly just so we can take down one Stalker ??

[censored] would we need to do if 8 Stalkers all teamed up in one big hunting pack ?!? (actually as I'm currently building a Stalker I'd quite like to try that )

4) I've seen Stalkers hit me while moving. I've seen them walk through PBAoE's. I've seen them survive Aim, Build-Up and Snipe from my NRG Blaster. I've seen them stay invisible when I've popped Insps like sweets. I've seen them one shot blasters and two shot Tanks. I've seen them take me out while hovering, whilst in flight, whilst stealthed. I've seen them run, SJ, Teleport and fly away and hide so you can't retaliate.

It's absolutley blindingly obvious to anyone.... a patient stalker willing to bide their time can get you all the time. NO MATTER THE PREP!!! The key word there is patient.

They're hunter killers that's their job. And a competent player (like Stalk-Obot) will get you everytime. They jsut wait for that one moment of weakness.

(Which is why the frankly ridiculous advice of "Keep Moving" annoys me so much. My blaster HAS to stand still when sniping. My Empath HAS to stand still while delivering RA. When my scrapper triggers Integration she stops and guess what...... stands still. Any interruptable power being activated is the patient stalkers opportunity. It's not inept gaming on the part of the player, it's simple game mechanics!!)

5) I've read through these threads, lots of them and it always seems to boil down to the Stalkers posting how you can supposedly beat them and the Heroes posting how they think it's unfair. Either that or you get some cocky hero type who claims that he's unbelievably hard in PvP and Stalkers don't affect him at all.

The first set are just defending their characters against feared nerfs. Some of them condescendingly so when they know that they are ruling PvP with an iron fist and little death. The second set are mostly the people who either haven't played Villains, haven't tried the Stalker powerset and who are mostly just frustrated after a couple of hours of constant face plants. The last ones I ignore as I have little time for people who blow their own trumpets and proclaim their greatness.

The antagonistic nature of some of the posts here (especially the early ones!!) just made things worse.

I have, to be honest, rarely seen any middle ground being struck.

So I'm going to try.

Yeah you've all read what was above and your bloods boiling and someones about to send a cutting response to me stating how I'm wrong and that their Stalker is oh so very squishee etc etc etc blah blah blah.

But I'm different from the others.

I've been a hero on the receiving end and now, after some really good advice and great input from Stalk-Obot (Thanx matey, us conversing on the other post in the Stalker section has been enlightening, informative and was just the sort of fair debate I think we needed), I'm trying a Stalker of my own to see if everything I've written above is true...... or a load of biased nonsense written by someone frustrated by losing out to Stalkers in PvP all the time.

Yup. Rogue Predator will be stalking heroes in Sirens call any day soon and then I'll see what the fuss is about from the other side of the fence.

I'll reserve judgement at the moment. He's still relatively low level and thus far I'm not really seeing what some of the Stalkers seem to be pushing as the big weakness of the Stalker set. Squishee-ness.

However I'm experienced enough to understand that the low level missions aren't too taxing and that things will probably get harder and more will be revealed as time goes on and the levels go up. Judgement at this juncture is very firmly reserved.

The proof of the pudding will be when I get into the PvP zones. If I can wander around and strike out at will with little or no danger to myself then I'll feel justified about my moans and complaints about the lack of balance.

If I consistently get my hidden a55 handed to me by heroes then I will eat humble pie and admit that I was wrong.

Time will tell.

The other point I'd like to make here is that I really DON'T want Stalkers nerfed unduly. I understand the archetype and the reasons it is the way it is. Personally I feel that it is a very interesting archetype and the game needs more of them. It would have been very easy to just make the Stalker a Scrapper. But they aren't. Try playing like a Scrapper and you'll lose. Alot.

What I'd like to see is some little things done to help the Heroes without the need to go to all that prep work. What that is I'm really not sure. But I'd just like for me to be able to take my toons into a PvP zone and have a fair fisticuff type fight with a Stalker the same way I can with all the other archetypes.

I hope I've maybe headed off the horrid Posts alot of you were maybe preparing to send my way. I hope that you read through all I've written properly and got what I'm trying to say here. I really am trying to learn MORE about BEING a Stalker before I jump onto the Nerf Bandwagon.

In summary then, I'd like to see the Stalkers and the Heroes stop getting defensive with each other. Where's the love people??

If you have a problem with Stalkers then I suggest that the best way to figure them out is to try them out. Make one of your own. Getting one to Level 20 doesn't take that long and on the way you may learn to either appreciate them, learn how to defeat them or maybe just justify what is being argued.

I want to be able to come onto these boards in a few weeks time and say. "YES!!! I was right, this is unbalanced. I rule PvP with my basic stalker!!" or say "SORRY FOLKS!! I was wrong, My stalker is being pwnd everytime I enter PvP."

On a final note, I have to agree with Shimmer on one thing. Seeing Stalkers when you've outsmarted them. One of the first times I came across a Stalker in Bloody Bay he attacked me. I had NO CLUE what was going on. At that point I'd only just got CoV, my first time in a PvP zone, didn't know what Stalkers were capable of. After a couple of AS's and trips to hospital, I got wise to this guys game.

Being clever I thought, "I know, I'll draw him into the water!!" So I did. Once there I knew where he was. I could see him running through the water, the ripples gave him away. So we did a merry little dance, him trying to position for AS while I danced away. Bet he wondered why I wouldn't go near him! hehe!

My point is that in the REAL WORLD, in that instant he was given away. In those instances he should be visible to target. I'd outsmarted him and I knew where he was. Dammit if I'd had a virtual pot of paint I'd have chucked it over him at that point revealing him to the world.

I'm not asking for Nerfs. But I'd like some help. Like being able to bash Stalkers when you KNOW where they are.

Gotta agree with Venture. For Gale the best heal I could perform was with 6 slotted heals and Hasten. I tried various combinations and they were never as good as when I did that.

Thing you have to remember is that it's not all about Heals per sec or whatever. It's about how much you can deliver in one shot with Heal Other.

Heal Other is the biggest tool in an Empath's arsenal because it's targetted where it can do the most good.

On an eight man team you are constantly fitting around between people, and hence if you heal your blaster and move on to heal your controller next, you want to be safe in the knowledge that the heal you threw on your blaster is going to be enough to tide him over until you've done Mr Controller and flitted back again.

Currently I find this really hard to do.

Secondly, you healing aura depends upon you a) standing in the thick of the action and b) everyone being in range. If you've ever been an Empath in a firefight you'll know that very very often that just isn't possible or doesnot happen. Sometimes it's not possible to stay up close and personal. Try standing close to a Tanker as he's fighting an Avelanche Shamen or a Storm Shamen. Unless you are specifically set up for them they'll knock you on your [censored] delaying that precious heals per second rate even further.

Add on top of that the times you have to a) Buff and b) perform Rez and I'm afraid to say it but the heals have been hit far further than your calculations can easily work out. There's too many more factors at play here than pure maths.

Simply put you've had input now from two experienced Emapths saying that their Heal Other outputs dropped from around 440 to around 270 a drop of approx 38%. Factor in the slower recharge times now we don't have Hasten, and all the other factors listed above and you get a REAL picture of the how badly the nerfs ACTUALLY hit us.

But as we're Empaths and are a quiet and unassuming breed we haven't tooted our horns much about it. We've just accepted it and moved on. hehe

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Dropped tp ally tho. dont see the point in the death in mish tp then res action now theres a no debt time added to res....i just ss in res and ss out.....if they die they die they get no debt.

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Hmmmm I'd not quite agree with that. I still find TP Friend one of the most valuable tools in my arsenal. I'd agree for archetypes such as Controllers and Blasters you can rez them happily in the middle of a fight.

However many Scrappers and Tankers need time to switch on Toggles before plunging into the fray. I usually try and get them clear so they have that time to charge themselves up without panic.

I speak from experience with my level 31 Regen Scrapper. 9 times out of 10 if I'm rezzed in the middle of a battle I'll get stuck straight into the action and forget to turn my toggles on, or mis click them. Personally I'd prefer someone clear me out so I can switch them on properly.

The other thing about TP Friend is that it enables you to evac multiple victims. If you have a team of 8 and 3 go down during an AV Alpha Strike for instance, I can rez one and TP the other two clear. They can then safely use Awakens (or I can give them one cause as Gale I always carry a stock for such emergencies) in safety. I then usually hit them with a CM and a few heals to get them back in the fight ASAP.

Without TP Friend they either have to wait on the floor while my Rez recharges or they have to risk using an awaken in the middle of a skirmish. It's good they get no debt but they aren't helping the team when they are either a) faceplanted or b) staggering aimlessly around stunned.

Personally I wouldn't make an Empath without TP Friend. I view it as a MUST HAVE power.

(I respecced it out by accident once and HUGELY regretted it. There were times when I felt utterly useless!)

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Come on Empaths. You were hardly scratched by the i5-i6 nerfs. Fortitude, RA, CM, AB didnt get touched. And healing? Just use absorb pain, you still have killer singletarget heals (no pun intended). The AoE heal works just as good 3 heals-2 recharge-1 end.

As I see it, you were actually buffed by ED. You're worth to a team went up, cause everyone else went further down.

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Jeez, there's no way on earth I'd use Absorb Pain as a replacement for Heal Other. That's just asking for a team faceplant.

You use Absorb Pain you can't heal yourself through any means (other than RA perhaps, does this still work??). Use it repeatedly and this means that you can never be healed in battle. Bear in mind Empaths are realtively squishee and rely on staying alive through not drawing agro.

If you draw agro you have three choices.
a) fight back, but at the detriment of not healing your team anymore.
b) Don't fight back and hope a teammate rescues you, risking death.... to the detriment of your team and not being able to heal them anymore
c) or run away..... to the detriment of your team and your not being there to heal them anymore.

Every blow you take from an enemy while under the effects of Absorb Pain cannot be healed. Four or five decent hits would probably kill Gale. Less if it's a boss. One or two shotted if it's an AV. This would be worse if I used Absorb Pain continuously. Remember is also takes a smidgen of health off the casting Empath too and being as mine is slotted to come around faster than the effects wear off it would be a very slow suicide attempt.

Absorb Pain in my opinion is an emergency measure to use if a teammate looks in terrible trouble and you make a judgement call on it being relatively safe for you to cast it without getting yourself killed.

At the end of the day in most teams I've been on, when the Empath goes down the team's not far behind.

As for teh AoE heal, there is no way on earth it's as good as it was. I used to remember sitting at Hammi raids when you go through the Heal Spam stage at the start watching other peoples Aura healing rates and seeing if anyone else got close to the 441 Gale was putting out. Not many did, she's one of the most powerful healers I know.

Post ED I logged on and that had dropped to around 285 ish. That's a drop of around a third. After respeccing and reslotting I think her heal aura now stands at 279. About 36% lower than it used to be. Plus without perma hasten, and even with recharges slotted it's slower to cycle around than before. Not by much, only a second or so, but it's enough to make a difference in battle as compared to before.

Understand I'm not complaining unduly. All her other abilities are pretty much untouched, or not significantly nerfed to make much odds. But her base heal rate per minute must have dropped by almost 40% due to ED's affects on sixslotting and Hasten.

I'm not good with numbers so maybe someone else can give me exact numbers to tell me if I'm right or wrong.

I'd possibly agree that there were harder archetypes hit by ED, but I think the effect was brutal for any toon who had a power six slotted and relied on it as such.

I'd also agree that our worth to a team has perhaps been enhanced because of the defense nerfs to powersets like the Tankers or Scrappers, but the fact is that even if we are now more needed, our healing abilities have now been compromised to make life even more difficult.

We have found ourselve in a position now where we are required to do even more healing and yet our heals have been nerfed by 40%. I felt incredbly bad during that 8 man team missiont he other day. I don't think I've ever had so many deaths in one mission before.

But as I said, I still love playing her, she's a challenge to play. No real complaints here, just acceptance.

I've had a little time now to play Gale under ED rules and here's my take.

Heal Aura: Dropped from 441 healing points to 279. Significant droppage. I still find it a valuable power. Now I don't have Perma Hasten, I have a tendency to Ctrl-Click this and spam it in battle situations. Teammates can always run into range if they need a quick heal safe in the knowledge it'll go of in a few secs. This leave me free to concentrate on buffs and Heal Other....

Heal Other: Another big drop in healing power. Can't remember the exact numbers, but it's practically half of what it was. Still my main tool, but I really struggled to keep an 8 man team alive the other day, especially when faced with an AV. The AV was knocking health off the team faster than I could put it back on. Really became a 2 healer situation about then. I'd like to see a boost here.

Regen Aura and Rec Aura: Except for the longer recharge time, no real change here. Still the best tools in my arsenal.

AB: Again, longer recharge without Hasten (although as with RA and RA I've put some recharges in them). Personally I usually hold AB back to drop it on someone in trouble during the battle. Someone who I'm having trouble healing as fast as they're dying or someone buring endurance really fast.

CM and Fort: No real difference here. Not even noticed much difference on their recharge times frankly. I'm sure they come around slower, but not significantly so it affects me particularly.

Absorb Pain: Was always my emergency button anyhow. If a team mate was on the verge of death it was a bloody good way to fill their bar up, albeit at my own personal risk. It's not quite as uber for the heal now. I healed an almost dead Firey Rose the other day and rather than zipping him up to his max health points, I got about 4/5ths. Still good but a noticable drop.

Stamina: Not a problem. Still a valid power to have, essential even. Not once during that 8 man team skirmish did I ever get close to burning all my End.

Hasten: Hmmmmmm. Optional power now. Not a pre-requisite. Without Perma it's kinda lost it's importance. However I still have it and have it max slotted for recharge. I took Power Mastery in my Epics and have Build Up. If things get really dicey I can trigger build up to make my heals uber for a few secs and click hasten to speed up their recharge time.

Have I missed anything ?? The thing I don't like about ED is that...

a) It's pretty much forced all my slots to be the same. i.e. 3 specialist, 2 recharge, 1 End Red or themes thereon.

Gone are the six slotting ways. I used to have an uber heal by six slotting Gale, but it came at the expense of a slightly lower recharge rate and a higher End cost. But that was my choice. Now I'm forced to be the same as all the other Empaths give or take.

b) I've freed up some powers that are now no longer useful, and I've now been able to take more in my secondary pool. Attack powers. Maybe that's a good thing, but I'd long ago made the choice that Gale was going to be purely Healer, and biaised in that direction. Again that was my choice. Now I feel I've been pushed back into a more generic middle ground.

It's not really a problem, but I do feel like the choice was removed from my hands. I still treat Gale like a pure Empath, but now I know she's been compromised by hands other than mine. And that bugs me.

However she is still my favourtie toon and I love playing her to bits.

It's a bit of a shame all her contemporaries moved on to other toons and CoV. However now it's been a few months all our alts are hitting the 40's again and Gale's been pressed back into service on more than one ocassion. Which makes me happy.

She needs inf as I have baby alts to feed and clothe!! hehe

Ahhhh Fantastic, the last of the old guard to ding his 50.

It's been a long road to level 50 for the lil fella and I'm very happy that you got there.

If I ever have a leaky pip that need sfixing I damn sure won't be calling Mario. There's only one Plumber in video games for me and that's you matey.

Gratzzzz well deserved mate. Can't wait to see what you call your Warshade and PeaceBringer!! hehe

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[ QUOTE ]
Mr Infinity is about 45, but due to a freakish accident in his lab he regressed physically to about 22.


[/ QUOTE ]

You know... It's truly amazing just how common such freakish accidents really are! They really shouldn't be called freakish anymore!

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Can we still call them Freakish accidents if they involve accidents that actually invovled Freaks ??

Actually this got me wondering exactly how many heroes there are in Paragon City. I dunno how many people play but in my circle of close game chums alone we must field at least 100 hero alts.

I'd love to know what the total count of Alts that have been in the game for an extended period are. (I'm excluding the ones that we've all created and deleted straight away!!)

Paragon City kinda reminds me of the comic book "Top Ten" where almost everyone in the city has superpowers and normal people are in the minority.

Hmmmm. Well

Knightingale is about 26
Rogue Elevenex is about 40
Lady Rogue is 18 (she's Rogue's Daughter)
Knight Arrow is about 200 ish (He's from the past!)
Mr Infinity is about 45, but due to a freakish accident in his lab he regressed physically to about 22.
Knight.Shade and Knight.Bringer are clones of Knightingale that hooked up with Kheldians and as such are physically less than a year old.
Miss Infinity is Mr Infinity's daughter and is 20.

Haven't put much thought into my villains yet.

Any idea how long this TF takes ?

No problem, just curious.

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/cry

Talin pulled my hair! Waaaaaaaa!

(From stirchley, just down the road from Cadbury world in fact)

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Ahhh it's a small world. I live in Longbridge and am currently working at Cadbury's!!!! hehe

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Any power that get a blaster in close range of the enemy is a bad idea IMO which unforuntaly is most of the powers in the 2ndary sets. Only 2ndary pool to choose is Devices as this asssist the blaster greatly.

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LoL, you are kidding right?
Secondarys (especialy the NRG) are great for blasters, im having no trouble wasting +3 lvl mobs with my sonic/nrg,
(invisibility is your friend) soloing invincible missions is a breeze (except for nemesis )
Imo, there arnt any pointless powers, just some that arnt as good as they should be.

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Ooooo I love Rogue's secondary's as an NRG Blaster. I'd wager I use his secondary's more than his Primaries. hehe!

On a useless power note I had Whirlwind with Gale and only ever used it to a) Change cossies in a WonderWoman type whirl or b) annoy my fellow teammates by bouncing their targets around.

Needless to say it's gone now.

Can I add powers I hate in here. Lady Rogue has (or had before I respecced it out!) the "Crippling Axe Kick"
IT had the most rubbish long activation and animation time and all my friends used to laugh at me for using it. Looked like a blimmin Can Can dancer!!!!

Needless to say that got binned too.

And can I add the Crey Pistol in here too ? Not strictly a power but it's completely hopeless.

Hasten.... hmmmmmm.

I reckon it depends on your personal build choice, but it certainly isn't the 'MUST HAVE' power it used to be.

I respecced Gale the other day and while I still took Hasten I didn't take it till VERY late in my picks. Certainly post level 40ish. Why ?

Well Gale has always been and continues to be a Empath that is slanted specifically for healing. Almost has no offensive capability. With that in mind my late game choices were taken to help in that role and not be biased towards any damage dealing.

I took the Energy Mastry Epic so I could get temp Invuln (cause it means I'm safer standing next to the rough stuff) and Build Up (which is superb when things in a big team hit the fan and you need that one big boost to your Healing Aura to right the ship again.)

I then took Hasten. a) because I like to have SS as a secondary travel power. It helps me alot if my team are on a big open map and have become split between two mobs. I can quickly zip from one to the other to heal them.

and b) because I now think that Hasten has now become an almost emergency measure. A healers panic button. If I'm in the middle of a tough fight with a large team and the damage rates are getting on top of me (which is now more of an issue since ED has effectively halved my heal output) I can pop the aforementioned build for that quick boost and then Hasten to help with the power recharge. Often these two powers can help you recover a situation that could have been potentially dangerous.

I put her build to the test last night as we took an 8 man team to Peregrine and did some AV missions (including Black Swan and Chimera and a nasty nasty Malta mission). Previously Gale would have had no problem. Post ED when I tried her she was nerfed badly. Post respec and with my slots re-enhanced with ED in mind she is much more effective. Nowhere near pre ED, but still able to hold together an 8 man team with minimal death.... although the action is frantic!!!

So I still think Hasten is a valuable power, but that's for me as an Empath.

My next task is to respec Rogue, who being a Blaster is a whole new challenge. Currently I can't see a reason not to just bin Hasten, but I'll keep you posted on the results of my tinkering.

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm have to try fix that then

PS. Go team birmingham Am from brum also knight

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YAY!!!! Whereabouts ?? Send me a tell in game (I'm usually on as Lady Rogue these days!)

Gratz to Sister Infinity. Long time friend and team mate and the first f the Incredible Infinities to reach the magic 5-0. Well done hunni, much love winging your way!!!

Ahhhhh if Knight Arrow were here he'd give you a hearty slap on the back, laugh in an Errol Flynn type way and say,

"Fantastic news Snowy, you provide the 'Forest' I'll bring the women and the Mead!!"

(He's the closest I get to role play! hehe )

Do you think a workshop is a more valuable addition that say a medical facility or a teleporter ?

And when the Blaze workshop is up and running can Lady Rogue come and use it being as we are in coalition and I have access to your base ?