JupiterMoon

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This thread proves there is something wrong with the primaries. Fire melee should no doubt be number one in overall damage as it offers zero protection. If it doesn't, we need a balance pass.

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it is the highest.

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Taking the alpha and surviving is not tanking. If saying it does makes you feel better about being a terrible Brute and an even worse Tank, then more power to you.

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lol. right.

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a properly played brute builds fury just fine without the need to taunt anything. i call it - 'attack chains'

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I asee the issue now. You must mainly solo.

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brutes have the tanker hp cap, higher hp than scrappers, punch voke and taunt auras to help deal with the dmg they will be soaking up because they will be taunting everything and keeping it on them.

wow...isnt....isnt that tanking?

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No, that's not the role a Tank plays.

Like I said, tanks control aggro by directing it away from squsihies, etc. They sometimes forego offense for better defense. During normal missions, my tank doesn't even have an attack chain. I absorb alpha and then constantly move around the mob to ensure aggro control. I'll attack here and there to maintain control and provide some DPS. That's nothing like how I play a Brute.

None of my Brutes have Taunt, all my tanks have Taunt.

My Brute enters a mob with a chip on his shoulder and immediately attacks the biggest baddest critter in that mob. I tab to the next, the next and the last. I'm not worried about controlling anything other then pissing off the mobs around me to fuel my need to SMASH.

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actually i mostly team, and guess what i'm doing for that team?

absorbing alpha = tanking

keeping the spawn on me and living = tanking

whether you run around doing nothing but using taunt itself, or taunt with aoe's - you ARE TANKING

there is no hair to split here, bub.

my bots/traps replaces probots far more often than the drones.

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Well I was just referring to saying that having a Shivan for a Scrapper is like having Pets for an MM.

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no, it's not. a petless mm has NO chance of soloing a damned thing. flawed analogy is flawed.

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So they can build fury, not hold aggro. Tanks "control" aggro while brutes just want it for Fury. It's not the same thing or playstyle.

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yawn...

a properly played brute builds fury just fine without the need to taunt anything. i call it - 'attack chains'

brutes have the tanker hp cap, higher hp than scrappers, punch voke and taunt auras to help deal with the dmg they will be soaking up because they will be taunting everything and keeping it on them.

wow...isnt....isnt that tanking?

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QR

Although I see your points, I still disagree comparing Shivans to MM pets because the MM class was designed to have those pets alongside them. Your solo build starts with a baseline of Primary Powers, Secondary Powers, Pool Powers and Ancillary/Patron Powers. From there you can upgrade your capabilities using base powers, shivans/nukes, inspirations, etc.

That's just how I see it and is in no way how others perceive it as well. Just stating my opinion.

*be back in another couple hours when work is finished, lol*

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level 50 mm's have around 800 hp without any accolades or +hp from io's.

their tier 3 pet has around 900 hp

i will say this - i have solo'd every dev created av fight red side on my thugs/traps without io's, no temps and no inspirations. using inspirations on a mm is clunky. playing an mm effectively in tough situations is a bit like playing chess.

but for 90% of the games content it's also extremely boring.

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The relevance of the defender/blaster comparison is simple. The Brute AT is designed to hold aggro, but lacks the tools on it's own to survive it (excluding Stone). The job of a Blaster is to kill. The job of a Defender is to protect the team. Considering the benefits the two get from Tough (especially Defenders), an AT designed to hold aggro should get a higher benefit from Tough to help it survive. A 17.8 boost is pathetic by comparison.

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I disagree that the Brute AT is designed to hold aggro. Its designed to SMASH and do damage.

Brutes are not tanks they are Brutes and going on a Fury fueled rampage is what they do best.

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ah i see. i guess that explains why they put a taunt aura in evasion, brutes having tank level taunt auras. tanker TAUNT power and single target punchvoke in every attack.

i had an invuln/fire tanker in issue 4. solo'd the terra volta tf at level 33. the rest of the team just sat at the door with jaws on teh floor. i deleted it to reuse the name on a villain. kicking myself for that now.

but..tankers were gods back then.

i want fire for the aoe's. i've done nothing but single target sets lately and would enjoy the change. the aoe's help with rttc's weak taunt aura and having two means one should always be up when needed for that purpose unless i fire them both back to back before i can slot some global recharge

i may two or three box this tanker with a sonic and a kin, or a sonic and a cold. not so much to make life easier on the tanker, but because i want a sonic and a cold defender but dont want to go through the hell that is trying to level them on their own.

well unless you are fortunate with the timing, knockdown is nearly useless for most mob spawns in cimerora and since you cant actually knock down most eb's and av's i dont consider it as important for a tanker on a team than a soloing brute.

so in building a tanker that can tank the itf and stf at 50 with a respectable io loadout while not making me want to pull my hair out leveling it up. and having played ss and sm on a brute i...i dont think i would be happy with them on a tanker. it would make me want to play my brutes too much and i'm trying to break my redside addiction here.

and lets not forget one little tidbit that annoyed me on my brute as stone melee - some stunned mobs will wander out of rttc range..and then sit there out of range cycling their ranged attacks. at least brutes get an ae immob.

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JupiterMoon: They do in Gaussian's arc in the RWZ.



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correction then: be glad yo udont fight them in EVERY MISSION post 40, and some missions being nothing but spawns of spec-ops.

do heroes have any enemy groups that with a normal spawn can reduce your regen to 0, drain 30 end from that same grenade attack, and debuff all resists 40%?

i already have a sm/wp brute. not trying to duplicate that blueside. i think the smaller dmg numbers would make me pine for the brute too much

but brute is pretty squishy. can only hit 49% smash/lethal with tough. harder to get a decent amount of defense. withouth a sonic or thermal corruptor large spawns of lethal or smashing dmg that are immune to either the knockdown or stun of fault - or both - destroy the wp brute.

be glad you dont have to fight longbow. every pack has minions that do something on the order of -1000% regen from range for 30s.

i like wp though. pretty straightforward. easy on the end. i was considering super strength but without fury to fuel it i dont think i would be happy with any tanker that does smashing or lethal dmg primarily come late game. i'm not looking for a soloing powerhouse but i've been on ae farms with my controllers and defenders where the tankers couldnt kill a spawn of lt's on their own any faster t han my ff/rad defender in so's.

i had considered invuln too especially with the tasty tidbit that is gaussian chance for build up in invincibility. either set will be expensive to build for decent amount of typed defense i have no illusions about that. but i also cant ignore the fact that willpower on a tanker has really good defensive numbers, really high hitpoints as additional mitigation that are always on vs. a click power and a tier 9 that doesnt leave me open and vulnerable when it crashes if i lag and cant time the blue pills accordingly to keep the toggles going.

i also dont want to duplicate the stone melee end costs. i had to slot up over 4.20 eps before the endurance burned from 7 toggles and an attack chain with only 20% global recharge was sustainable, and even then for most eb's and av's i have to chug blue pills with some regularity. i may consider ss because outside of the rage and hasten crashes it's attack chain is pretty light on endurance - but fire is something i havent done since issue 4 and i'd like to explore it some. besides - sarrate doesnt seem to have mitigation issues as wp/fire

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I have two zombie/darks both on different servers....my poor wallet

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the pet recharge enhances are cheap redside.

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For my WP, it gets rough when I run into alot of -regen.



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then be glad heroes dont fight longbow.

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playing around with willpower and invuln in mids, i noticed that willpower can get 70% smash/lethal resists.

ignoring the taunt aura discrepency, can willpower tank the ITF?

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Sigh. Yes I tanked the ITF at L44 SK'd up on my WP Tanker.

Taunt aura doesn't mean squat.

Just play the damned toon and stop worrying about what you can on Mids.

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i worry about what can tank the ITF and STF more than anything else.

i dont give two craps about peoples concepts, only what actually works. having not done the itf on either side nor the stf, i want a toon i can not only do them on but lead them on and i've decided that's to be a tanker. so the tanker needs to be able to tank them both.

can a willpower with tough and weave tank them both

i was in most of the global channels back then

playing around with willpower and invuln in mids, i noticed that willpower can get 70% smash/lethal resists.

ignoring the taunt aura discrepency, can willpower tank the ITF?

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anyone have any suggestions?

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Build it yourself and don't listen overly much to other people's opinions on the subject.

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that isnt going to fly, because i haveno first hand knowledge of what has been added heroside since issue 5.

i want to be able to tank every tf in the game available to heroes

so now that i've done everything red side at least twice, it's time to come back blue side.

i havent played heroes since cov launched so it's actually going to feel fresh to me - kinda.

anyway i've decided to make a new tanker and i need the communities help building it.

i've already decided on fire as the secondary.

for the primary - i want a primary that can tank every task force in the game without major issues that isnt stone. it has to be well rounded and able to tank all of the dmg types in the game. i dont want a primary that 'well it can tank this with this particular io setting', i want something that will work from 22 to 50 with equal or near equal effectiveness. if it's a defense primary, it has to be able to deal with devouring earth and the shadow shard. if it's a resist primary, it has to be able to deal with large spawns of all dmg types.

anyone have any suggestions?

typo. i meant per minute

depends on the mm player. most HATE IT when corruptors spread a spawn all the hell over which makes pet control a nightmare.

3 corruptor 1 brute - but the brute build will depend on what you plan to primarily fight

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PvP is sadly, one of the pillars of the MMO business. If a MMO doesnt have some form of competition between players (and the most visible and most viable form of this is PvP), there wouldnt be a true challenge for the player, and thus no point in playing more.

There's a reason why Warhammer Online, WoW, EVE Online, and a dozen other MMO's suceed in their PvP gaming. They keep it as balanced, as fixed, and as fun as possible.

Whilst true, there are people who are strongly against PvP, there are far more who live in he "gray zone" between no PvP and all PvP, people who play what they want, when they want it, and expect a fun time, win or lose.

I'm not even an MMO dev and even I can see there's things wrong with the PvP mechanics and how it "feels" on the end-user currently.

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yes. clearly pvp is why the first everquest surpassed ultima online.

pvp isnt what made WoW successful, and those who say mmorpg's should all have pvp i notice rather conveniently refuse to play a game like eve online

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Sarrate: Your chart is inaccurate. EQ reached over 500,000 in 2001, and as far as I know (meaning I've never heard of a press release to the contrary) FFXI never surpassed EQ's prime. Also, with regards to EQ vs. EQ2, you do realize you're talking about MMOs that are either over or just under a decade in existence?

Since EQ2 has been the only MMO sequel to another MMO, I can see why you would judge sequels as being "bad" however keep in mind that an MMO should be judged on its own merits rather than on what the next one has done. EQ2 "failed" to exceed EQ for a number of reasons which are too numerous and not salient to the point at hand, but one of those reason was *not* because it was a sequel.

CoH (and any MMO) that stands the test of time, needs to continually update. At some point, it needs to be rewritten. From a business model perspective it makes more financial sense to do this as a new release.

Incidentally if CoH2 were ever made, allowing existing characters from CoH to be imported into the new game would excise much of the debate of split populations, not to mention guarantee your new release a solid player base at release. Something I think EQ2 should have done has the game been approached differently.

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some of the reasons that made everquest2 fail (a bad launch WILL doom an mmorpg) were:

1) forced grouping for everything. at the time it launched mmorpg's were moving from niche to more mainstream, and soloing was preferred. they were behind the times.

2) graphics - MOST mmorpg'ers machines couldnt handle the game. it's still to this day a resource hog graphically. oddly, isnt that what the whiner wants coh to do? drastic graphical update?

those two facts kept people away for the first year and a half. it's a good game now, but if an mmorpg doesnt start out the gate good people generally wont give it a second look.

tremor takes 3.4 seconds adjusted for arcanatime to fire

the brute thread about this was lost in the recent purge

tremor takes 3 seconds to cast, and most of us dont bother to take the power at all