Juggertha

Living Hellfire & Markus and Ultra Dynamic Man are my faves out of that bunch.

Nice to see what is coming down the pipe Gill.

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to further elaborate. this was ment for a specific person who stated they were happy with it. publicly critiquing it might devalue the piece to the recipient.

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Thanks for that, thehyperone! I really like the piece and I don't care if someone I've never interacted with likes it or not. And for the record, I've received a lot of compliments on it. From people whose opinions matter to me. Thanks again, Juggy!

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And thanks for your support.

I really like this piece. As you know, I went through a couple of different versions of it (slightly). I think it shows your characters and their personalities well.

If someone wants to critique it, fine... maybe they can snagsome manners and shoot me a PM instead of bursting the thread

Oh and Chrysame, it's nice to hear that you're getting good feed back on it as well.

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Your emotions blind you to the praise in the comments as well. The fact that your art is good enough to actually warrant real attention should be a blessing. If you think that's a hard critique that 'tears apart' your art, then you've got a very soft threshold for commentary.

Especially as an established artist already. You should be less likely to succumb to an ego hit like that. If you disagree with the opinions then by all means, ignore it. But it's obvious to more than just myself that there's a hurdle here to cross.

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Yup, I guess I'm just way too sensitive. Let's take a look at what you said...

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Is the pic stretched vertically? It seems to be skewed a bit, with the girls' bodies being pretty thin. It's more noticeable in the face and hair though.

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Did I miss the praise here? All I see is critisism.

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I dunno, I think that the problem lays in the lines of the girls themselves, not in the perspective of the background. If you removed the background entirely, I think it would still appear vertically skewed. The mid-drift shirt and the sharpness of the shoulders seem like they were originally at a more horizontal angle, but were pulled upwards as they approach the middle, making the sides seem unbalanced. The overall thinness of the girls would point to the same thing.

Even if they're pretty thin to begin with, there's a point where the proportions start to look 'off' to the human eye. Something about it just seems... weird. It's a great picture, but I feel like a simple transform on the character layers would make it much better.

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Ah, THERE is the praise! How could I have missed it??

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Critique is exactly that. Opinion. Nothing more or nothing less.

I very much disagree with the idea that it's the background that's effecting this picture, as I'm carefully judging the proportions of the lineart on the characters directly. Though this is a problem that I see in most of your art thusfar. A personal style is likely the cause of it, though you're hitting the uncanny valley here. The characters don't appear stylized, but the proportions don't match the standard for humans. As I said before, a simple transform on the character layer to reduce the vertical skewing would help a lot.

I'm not the only one that sees the stretch in your style. If you like it, then by all means, use it. If critiques anger you, then I'd suggest rethinking how you post. The fact that someone would pay enough attention to your art and not give a simple 'it sucks' is proof that it's getting an audience that actually cares. Instead of the standard head inflating 'OMG SO GUD' chants that reverberate most art forums.

I actually like the pic, as I stated earlier.

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Wow, I'm feeling bowled over with the love right now. You have really made your post encouraging. How could I have felt any different?


The truth is, out of the three posts you made, and the paragraphs there in, you made two small off-handed compliments. They were FAR OUT WEIGHED by your critique - a critique I did not ask for nor want.

That pic was done FOR SOMEONE. That person posted how much they liked it. For you to come and continually try to pick it appart is bad form. You seem to think that your it is somehow your right to express your opinion because this is a BBS board.

Let me make it clear, I would love it if you never posted on another one of my pieces again.

Doh! Someones gone "lineless" and it looks awesome!

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I guess the point I'm trying to make in a roundabout way, is that there's room for both perspectives here, and both are pretty valid.


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Agreed, I think I've learned a lot from the comments I've received here. I guess the reason I'm looking at this a little stronly right now is because of this thread.

To me, it was obvious that the person who the art was done for was happy. Heck, it might not of been the best picture in the world, but I tried my best. And to have someone, not once, ot twice, but thrice try to push their opinion down my throat was getting my goat. I thik you can see how everyone else tried to give their thoughts, but also added a touch of kindness - one poster did not though.

I've been an educator for 10 years now and I strongly believe it is good form to encourage people when making those type of comments. Sure, I've had people critique my work here before, but generally I found them to be nice about it.

If I really want things torn apart, I'll post at PJ - a lot of great artists and fans there who take the tim to give constructive advice.

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You may enjoy the fact that this place is a shallow little place .

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Well, I think you've made your opinion clear on how you feel about this place.

It's funny, because usually if I want to comment on someone's art, I always find myself following the 2:1 rule. 2 positives to 1 negative. I like to encourage instead of beat down.

This forum is not designed for critiques of art - I've never read that that was the pupose ofthe place. The majority of posters here are 1) fans of the game and 2) fans of their characters. Mainly, I see thisplace as one to show off their characters (in whatever form).

If you want to levy harsh critisism on people's work, perhaps you could find boards where people go for exactly that?

I think it is now obvious that you do not get my point.

I'll ask you kindly not to comment on any of my art posts from here on out.

Thank you.

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I dunno, I think that the problem lays in the lines of the girls themselves, not in the perspective of the background. If you removed the background entirely, I think it would still appear vertically skewed. The mid-drift shirt and the sharpness of the shoulders seem like they were originally at a more horizontal angle, but were pulled upwards as they approach the middle, making the sides seem unbalanced. The overall thinness of the girls would point to the same thing.

Even if they're pretty thin to begin with, there's a point where the proportions start to look 'off' to the human eye. Something about it just seems... weird. It's a great picture, but I feel like a simple transform on the character layers would make it much better.

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Here's an example of an unsolicited critique. The person who this piece was for has already stated how much they love it. I posted it for people to see (hopefuly my progress) and to enjoy.

You made one comment and some peopledisagreed with you. You came back to insist on your point.

The thing is, your point is a matter of opinion. I personally think that the girls look good in this piece. I think it is the wonky background that makes the image look a little skewed - but once again, that's part of what I was going for.

Perhaps, you could ask what I was trying to acheive and then at that point give pointers/suggestions on how to acheive it. For example, I post on another art forum and there, the people will often PS your pic and show how a slight (lasso) change, could help your piece.

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Id say it varies...

Your comission:
Critique it in private with the person doing it but remember that you chose them for their particular artstyle, just cause they have the expertise to draw it in another way, unless they are practicing other art styles they will probably stay in their comfort zone.

Someone elses commish:
Id say bite your tongue, remember that even if the artist does something, it couldbe at another persons request, therefore critiquing it could just frustrate the artist as they may not have done it by thier own choice. Now if it is in line with their other art... PM is the way to go about it.

Gift Art
If someone does gift art for you... Id say bite your tongue... honestly they are doing something out of the kindness of their own heart, even if you dont particularly like the piece know they spend thier time on it without expecting complensation except for your thanks. Now if it is someone elses gift art, id say PM them about it, as it was done usually byu thier own choice of style so it can properly be critiqued.

In General:
I have never really commished any piece but i have recieved one or two gift arts, id say if your going to critique something, be very polite and do it privately unless it is an open request for critiques

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Totally agree. When in doubt, take it to a PM. It's far too easy for a love-joy to go around bursting people's bubbles in the name of "critique"

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If you're the artist and you're posting your art up on a relatively public BBS because you want attention, then you really have no choice but to take critiques regardless of if you want them. If you really don't want people to comment, don't post it.

As for giving critiques, I say that unless the thread specifically says no critiques, or the person posting it isn't the artist themselves, then it's really of no use to try. If they tell you up front they don't want critiques, then they won't listen anyways. If they're not the artist, they really can't make use of the info. Otherwise, it's open season.

Your opinion is exactly that. Your opinion. It is not fact, nor is it law. It's up to the artist themselves to decide if their art is good or not and they should not be influenced by the peanut gallery's every whim. If you're easily upset by comments from people, then you should seriously reconsider never putting up art online again. The net is a wild and untamed land of aggressive idiots, not a closed viewing hall built to rain praises down on you.

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Totally disagree. While this forum may be semi-public, it has also enjoyed years of positive posting. The art foum has been a haven for a lot of posters. Little to no flame wars have meant that THIS is the place that they feel safe.

Not everyone is confident in their art and many need encouragement. Unless you are a pro (and I mean a teaching pro), then I don't think that your unslicited comments/critiques are able to take it all into account.

Do you know the age of the artist? The reason for doing the art? The vision desired? How long they have been drawing?

One (or a few) off handed comments could really drive away burgeoning artists.

I came here over a year ago and it was BECAUSE of all the positive coments that I gained the confidense to grow.

You might want to keep that in mind before you "insist" on your point.

Not only that but I'm wondering if he meant a drawing or a screenie.

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Was the creator of these characters happy with this picture? Hell yes! I hope that counts for something.

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Aye, you are the number one I care about for this.

Actually, I had considered adding a "zoom blur" to it to give the girls a detached feel from the pic. I wanted to make it look like a movie scene, where they are standing on the road but the camera is pulling them towards the viewer.

Maybe I didn't quite pull it off. /shrug.


As for their form though, I honestly don't see anything wrong with them. They look decent to me.

Aye, nice sketches you've got there.

You guys are welcome to write up stuff all you want. I think it adds to the flavor.

But honestly, this was intended to be an Art JAM - that is, people drawing pics of their Nation Characters.



For example, here's mine...

RisingSun from Japan

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Mmmm....

Well to be fair, he does have a point. The contest folks have been waiting behind your paid queue, for almost a year. I kind of saw the writing on the wall, and that was what prompted me to upgrade mine to a full color piece. I suppose it's a good thing, that you would HAVE a queue for this long. You're not hurting for business, that's certain.

Of course, no one foresaw your accident either, or Lush's getting swamped with work. But hey... you're running your own biz, sometimes setbacks happen. As customers, we don't have much choice, this isn't mass-produced stuff so it's impossible to pass the work off to someone else.

And ... sometimes someone's patience runs out.

I renew mine by looking at the bluelines you sent. It's very effective.

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Mine certainly did. I ordered 2 pieces from MMOART back in August of 2006 and, as is customary, paid half up front. I got some sketches in late March of 2007 to approve (which I did immediately), and was told to expect delivery in April or May. It's now September and, frankly, after 13 months my enthusiasm has waned to the point of not being interested. All the contests are great, but if they dont deliver the bread and butter pieces, it seems like kind of a waste of time.

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It's obvious that I'm a big fan of Gill... but I do agree - that is too long to wait.

/sends Gill some poweraide

Awesome work on that one man. You can tell all the time put into it.

to summarize... Yup, I may have mesed too much with the perspective of the buildings.

10 pages?!

I'd love the challenge, but not sure I'm up for it time wise.

Good luck Zikar!

Even I'm thinking about getting something done up by them!

Wow, I think there's about 50 already signed up.

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That looks nice. Not as powerful as "Day and Night," but then that's going to be a hard one to top.

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/sniff

/sniff


I smell a challenge.

And I do believe I'm getting better with them. It's easy to picture these two roaming the streets of Paragon.

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Gratz on the launch!

Which artists works for the MMOART studio? Could we see samples? I can't decide if I don't know who to expect.

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I'm curious as well.

Come andcheck out my latest JAM people. I think it'd be right down your alley!

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Just FREAKING AMAZING!

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Yup, you're right.