JonnyDeadSide

Hi all, back after a couple month break, so looking to get back into things again...

I currently have a lvl 40 spines/nin stalker, which I held at lvl 33 for a VERY long time, before tf/sf rewards were changed. I used him alot on the cap sf, able to solo it with him in very efficient time, until the sf end of course, when I needed my team again to kill the 2 big dogs.
I have been recently lvling him, again, specifically for pvp.
I have a lvl 50 NRG/Regen, that I used to love and now hate. I do not enjoy playing that toon since the changes. It all just feels too slow now. If I'm being honest, I havent REALLY been giving it a fair shake to get used to, but frankly I just dont want to get used to it. I decided I dislike it now and "that's that" i spose.

Given the now semi-useless defense in pvp, am I better off re-rolling him into a /regen or /wp or some such, ditching the /nin?

Money is no issue as I do quite well in market pvp and have a nice base storage of about 300+ crafted items to go shopping for each new toon/build I make to start them out on the right foot.

Looking for responses from qualified individuals like BB, Mac, and other intelligent Pvp'ers.
Any mock builds proposals are appreciated.

TIA

Yep, was almost unplayable last night. I have a more than capable rig, which did not always lag like it has been as of late.

Also, alienware is too expensive, and has been know to lag mortgages. :P

For his next book, maybe he could do a study about how caged animals react when repeatedly poked with a stick through the bars?
I mean, that is really an interesting idea.....
I can't even imagine what the animals reactions would be? He should definately do a professional study to enlighten the world about this type of scenario. The results would be riveting.....

/sarcasm off

Kudos for pulling a paycheck out of this to him......and shame shame shame on the university that pays his salary. The study is laughable and only enforces the obvious. NO [censored] animals bite back when u jab em with a stick.
I just can't believe a college professor is this retarded and in even more disbelief that the dean of his school paid him to purposely ruin the fun of children playing a video game. He got paid to RUIN the playtime of children. While many of us who play are adults....many of us are not. I assure you my daughter will not be going to his school. What a D-Bag.

Hmmm, I too am deciding which way I want to go here. My intentions are for pvp. Can anyone share/speak on their experience from a pvp perspective?
This WILL be the first scrapper i take past lvl 20. I've deleted all the others in favor of other AT's in past, lol.
If after you share on the primary, can you also speak of whether /fire is a viable secondary on a scrapper in pvp?
Likely will be for RV.

thanks in advance to those who can share.

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he said it is hard to fix NPCs....

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lol, can't be any harder than it was to "fix" us.

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I have to disagree. I did fine as a team-buffing kin in zone PVP, both Sirens and RV. With the current system, not only are my buffs next to useless, but I cannot use movement to increase survivability. There is a difference between having to learn how to play a support toon to make it viable, and having your toon rendered next to useless even when you know how to play it. All of my characters were support - sonics and kins mostly. I may as well crumple them up and toss them in the trash with the current PVP system.

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Just to be clear, I wasn't using one version of cox pvp compared to another, (ie i12 vs i13).....just Pvp in general. I am not a big fan of the "new" pvp, but I am still a fan of pvp. I am aware that support toons are not really "support" anymore. That line has been severely blurred now between classes.




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No. Another NCSoft title, Exteel, is about 10x as fast as CoX PVP, and it's fun out of the gate. It doesn't require that you spend days/weeks/months learning how to play. You play one tutorial that lasts all of maybe 30 minutes and you're ready to jump right into your first deathmatch.


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lol, so i can learn all i need to know in 30 minutes?
Hilarious. Soooo.....I am bored of that game in....what.....2 weeks?
You may not enjoy learning complexities, in order to enjoy a game, But I do. If I want a "jump in and go" pvp experience I can play one of those garbage war game titles. Grab my machine gun, run around the map & shoot the bunny hoppers. zzzZZZzzz
No thanks.
And if you think that no other games share a learning curve issue, then I can only chalk it up to you being ignorant of other games or being purposely obtuse in order to facilitate your point of view.
Either way, it appears we will have to agree to disagree.
lol "real" pvp. You're a hoot.

I truely believe that those who do not PVP, get shell-shocked by PVP "game speed", when they finally decide to try it. You cannot compare PvP speed to PvE speed. They are two entirely different "gears".

I believe that most of those who complain about PVP fights being too short....or never ending at all.....simply don't know how to PVP well enough "yet", are caught off guard, do not have the tools they need in their build. This comes with time invested.

I further believe that those who do not PVP because its not "fun" for them....if forced to PVP for about 30+ hours, would in fact learn to survive long enough and kill more efficiently......and....learn.....enough....to.... *gasp*....actually begin to have fun. (When you don't know what you're doing and dieing on the regular, there is a pretty good chance you're gonna hate whatever it is you're doing, and be turned off by it.)

I also think that too many first time pvp'rs never "get over" what they call "ganking". The thing is....what they call "ganking", I call lack of awareness or lack of familiarity with the toon they are on. They simply don't know what they can/should do in certain situations, in order to survive with that toon. This too comes with time invested.

I further believe many folks have too much pride to take the time to learn what they NEED to learn. They can't stand getting their butts kicked while they learn. It's too frustrating, too hard, to annoying, too complicated.....whatever the case.
This one, I simply do not "get". No one is an expert, or even competetive the first time they try something new. Patience would do them wonders.

Those who PvP know what Im talking about....those who don't pvp, never will.

btw Textilian, I too was "tricked" into liking pvp. Suzanne Somers, a global friend of mine, talked me into committing 2 hours a night, 3 days a week, for 3 weeks. The first night all did was cuss him out on skype. Heck teh first week, I mostly cussed him.
2nd week, I started getting a few more kills, dieing less quickly, and dieing less often. By week 3 I was hooked and have been ever since.
I started out on a stalker.....one that I almost never play anymore because my much more easily killed toons like my corr and dom are so much more fun, now that I understand how to play them.
Although, let me also state that I was repeatedly "ganked" on these same toons when I first started to PvP with them. I learned how to use them, played within the confines of what their builds allowed, and found that even my 'weak" toons are a helluva allotta fun.

Yep, it's crash after crash after crash for me. I havent been able to stay in more than 2-3 mins before a crash occurs. As far as the last couple days, I cant even get past the character selection screen.
Everything was fine before the recent update. Well....not fine, as I still had some crash issues here and there, but was more than playable. Now is pointless to try to log in. Account being canceled because of this. Drivers dont seem to be the issue, as I tried about 4-5 of them over the last 2 days. Have tried new and old. Doesnt seem to matter now, all I do is crash regardless of driver version.

Lucky.....I dont think trash talk killed pvp. But I know some of the foul attitudes can discourage some newer players from returning.

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I can handle the responsibility of that power just fine. I did it on another mmo and was never reprimanded for abuse of my power. It was quite a competitive atmosphere.

Of course Im old and stress alot less about losing too, lol.

Either way, it's apparent that rules arent wanted, nor followed, afa pvp and general personal conduct is concerned. There is almost 0 accountability for ones actions now and it seems.....thats just how folks like it.

I was just hoping for a better way of keeping our thin skinned nubs.

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This this whole thing was pretty much came down to you thinking you should be given power lolz. Honestly you sound like a loser who thinks everyone should be given a trophy for participation. The zones have been populated just fine lately, I say keep the thin skinned nubs out we don't wanna listen to their [censored] and moaning.

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At no point did I say I deserved power of any type. Those are your words kiddo. That "power" was given to me by that games community. I never said I wanted to be one of the people in this game who monitored the misfits. I personally dont care who does it, so long as they take it seriously and have to answer for their own actions when wielding that authority.

Name calling only makes me think you're an angry little 15 year old enjoying thier anonymous internet persona. FYI everyone does get a trophy for being in pvp if they are there long enough. They are called badges.

The zones are not populated just fine, that's absurd to say. Maybe in your after school time slot they work for you, but it's not true for all servers or all time slots. Not all are as "lucky" as you claim to be.

And "keep the thin skinned nubs out" is exactly the type of response that has aided in lowering our pvp populations.

You don't wanna listen to them pissing and moaning? Maybe they dont wanna listen to the all the trash talk, rude comments, and personal attacks? If most of the pvp vets weren't such tools, most of the nubs would do a little less pissing and moaning, I suspect.

While I disagree with most of what you said, you are very entitled to your opinion and I can respect that you disagree with me. We'll just have to agree, to disagree.

I can handle the responsibility of that power just fine. I did it on another mmo and was never reprimanded for abuse of my power. It was quite a competitive atmosphere.

Of course Im old and stress alot less about losing too, lol.

Either way, it's apparent that rules arent wanted, nor followed, afa pvp and general personal conduct is concerned. There is almost 0 accountability for ones actions now and it seems.....thats just how folks like it.

I was just hoping for a better way of keeping our thin skinned nubs.

lol, not a single trustworthy person among pvp'rs......?

What does that say about them as a group? It's no wonder at all why folks without thick skin never come back.

You're right and I digress, since none among you is worthy.

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Johnny:

If you want to control the pvp environment, ensure that there's no trash talking, moving, using phase/hibernate, stacked vengeance, or whatever, "Go to the Arena"

Seriously. You can effectively "kick someone" from an arena event. Why do you want in the zones?

Or put another way:

You all ready have the ability to do all the things you want to do. Just bring it to the arena. But nowhere other than the zones can people engage in open zone pvp. If you all ready have a place that has the features you want, why do you begrudge others the only place with the features they prefer?

Not to be mean, but that seems rather selfish and narrow minded. Say what you will about Mission Architect, whether it's a development punt or not, but now that you have the ability to create almost any mission you care to, it seems rather childish to complain about a pve mission. Similarly, if you can go to the arena and set it up almost any way you choose, it seems childish to me to complain about the zones.

Opinions vary, but your position mystifies me.

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You're saying a whole lot of things as if I brought them up....which I didnt. All I did was say that I advocate a feature that may or may not allow for verbally abusive chatter. IE: a way to remove those people, temporarily, from the zone.

The rest....well, i think.....you made it up so that you could.....type more letters or sompin. :P

I never said anything about kicking phasers/hibernaters, power stackers, or any of that stuff. I didnt complain about the zone either. What I did say was that I am all for toning things down on chat for our more sensitive sided folk......so they stay longer and I can kill them more.

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So your solution is to increase population in PvP zones is to kick people out of said zones. Ya that seems like a great idea.

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You're either being obtuse, didn't read what I said, or having trouble understanding what I said.
There are plenty of games that have community appointed folks who police the game and weed out the bad apples. The appointed few are not above the law and are responsible for their own behavior too. Obviously someone abusing their power can have that power removed....and quickly.


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I think that would be too easy to abuse. If a group of people just wanted to fight club it up or something, they could just boot the guy. Or if you didn't want a new person running around and asking questions, well, boot them.

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I think you missed the meat of what I was saying. Someone with the ability to remove people from the zone can't just kick them for no reason without consequence. If that's what you thought i was suggesting, you should read what I said....again.
At no point did I suggest that everyone in the zone can kick people. At no point did I say it was ok for someone to kick a player for asking questions or because he didn't want to fight club. That's just silly.
What I did say was that those who exhibit abusive behaviors would, could, and SHOULD be kicked from the zone for "X" amount of time for griefing.

I'm sure there are many who would volunteer to be one of the CoX police. The "police" could help new players get acclimated to PvP and protect them the D-bags who might have driven them off, had they not been there to help.

Imo, anyone who would not want this, is likely one of the D-bags concerned about being kicked for their own behavior.
While the police may not be perfect, they still do more good than harm most days.

Lets say one of the police did abuse his/her power.....
it wouldnt last long before they were reported enough to have them removed from that position of power. As it stands now, there is plenty of abuse in the zones that goes un-checked every dam day. This "could" at least be a step toward curbing that.

It probably is too late for something like this, but even a late effort is better than no effort imho.

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I guess its true about teenagers and being left to their own devices....I have seen community appointed members in other games do a fine job of policing this type of behavior. Maybe it could work here? Just a thought....

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Policing this behavior!?! Don't get me wrong trash talk can be midly annoying but to think anyone can do anything about it if it's in no way shape or form offensive then their is nothing anyone can do. Trash talk has been around in competitions since they have existed. as the old saying goes "If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen."

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"Offensive" chatter is subjective.
Im not talking about mildly annoying trash talk. If you really think "nothing" can be done about it....thats just being thick.
Abusive natured trash talking has no place. I don't trash talk when in there, aside from maybe daring the droners to come out and play. There isn't much point in tt'ing. But I can understand some people have fun with it. I enjoy a good ribbing here and there. But I have seen people get carried away plenty of times and it can ruin more than one persons experience. It would be easy to appoint a few folks that PvP regularly, and give them the authority to "kick" players from the zone.(although I have no idea how tough the "kick" feature would be to implement.)
I've seen it work in may other games.
I don't get rattled by tt'ers, but i see many who do get rattled/offended/disgusted/frustrated.
Well, I'd like to fight those people again, but the mean spirited type of tt'er can affect some folks enough to make them not come back. And that sux becasue that can affect my experience. The zones are dead enough as it is.
If shutting down some unnecessary banter "could" help boost the zone populations, Im all for it. We need more bodies in zones.

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don't ruin other people's fun by always complaining!

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Right. But feel free to trash talk and ruin other peoples fun. Complaining though....that's simply out of the question, and not acceptable behavior. lol, good stuff.

We all get trash talked in PvP, that doesn't mean we have to like it. Personally I would be fine not being able to read the oppositions broadcasts and would welcome that change. They can send me a tell if they really wanna trash talk me.
Except most times they wont...because now everyone else cant see it, and it doesn't feed their attention [censored] ego driven needs.

I dont care about the trash talking too much, and usually have something else I can log in to counter the trashers current build. This will usually hush them when they get owned a few times.
But trash talkers do go a bit far sometimes in the zone and have definately run off a few peeps I was trying to get interested in PvP. Not all, but more than a handful.
As already stated, some can take it with a grain of salt, while others take it too seriously......or cant take it at all.

I guess its true about teenagers and being left to their own devices....I have seen community appointed members in other games do a fine job of policing this type of behavior. Maybe it could work here? Just a thought....

We gave up our fire in favor of fish. Welcome to i13.
Fish are fun. Respec into them and you'll see why.

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I thought i was being attacked when i popped a yellow insp

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Bwahahahaa! Too funny. But only b'cuz its likely true.

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What I'm saying is the argument "it's in a toggle so it gets wasted when I'm sitting at the market" is completely irrelevant!

(You will note my very first reply in this thread was because of the phrase "when you're not in combat".)

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I think most with half a brain are in the "that's a given" camp on this one.
The context of "not in combat" is the time between mobs. Not at the market. Not in your sg base. Not respecing. Not logging out. Between mobs and just before/after you engage in combat, is more the context of this discussion as I see it(which obviously doesnt make it right, just saying ).

When it fires off 7 seconds before you go into the next mob, its wasted....or two seconds after you finishoff the last of a mob and are moving on to another mob 7 seconds away, its wasted. And now you could have to wait....how long, until it fires again exactly when you dont want it to?
Quality over quantity, that's the discussion, not whether the proc is wasted when standing around with ur thumb in your ear.

My position is a frugal one, in that I dont want the proc to have so many wasted opportunites to fire while I'm "about" to enter combat. I wanna take my "roll" when I'm actually engaging someone.
If you can quantify the math to show me why the more conservative approach is not as good as putting it in tactics, Im open to it. I just dont believe tactics is as good because of all the uncontrolled fires you have, all the times it fires early or late, or fires when you r buffing before mobs, or fires when you are using powers that do no dmg.....just so many dang chances for it to proc when you get no benefit

I'll definately hear you out, I just dont see how you could quantify all those variables. Slow team, fast team, putzie team, military team. Mobs far from on another, mobs close by each other. Travel time between mobs and/or missions. How long is the mob alive each encounter, are they fast mob wipes or are they somewhat sustained fights with each mob.......just makes my brain melt, lol.(not that it takes much)

If I don't have an aim/bu power then yes, I would put it in tactics if it made sense on a build.

I submit we may need to call upon the powers of someone who regularly quantifies things in a mathematical fashion.

*thinks for a moment.....

*Rubs the Arcanaville lamp

What it boils down to for me is this: If I cant harness it's power when I'm about to throw my best/strongest attacks, then what good is it to me, or anyone really? It doesnt give you a BU animation, so you dont know if its active or not. Slotting it in a click power which you naturally use before firing your best offensive attacks virtually guarantees that when it doees fire you are getting its maximum benefit. Slotting it your way ruins any chance of that. Having my one out of 10 chance proc when Im speed boosting someone seems pretty useless.

Different strokes for different folks

Well, I can see how you may feel more comfortable and confident with it in tactics. I definately see how you will get a TON more times that it will "fire" if its in your toggle.
If I was to guess, I would guess slotting it in tactics would yield about a 7 to 1, or "more", proc ratio. Maybe you would get 15 procs to my 1? Heck I dunno.

I just prefer to have "some" control over "when" it might proc. I(personally) dont want it proc'ing randomly(you know what I mean ) when I cant take full advantage of when it does fire.
I am only getting a 5% chance of it fireing. I want to be sure I'm actually attacking, and its one of my stronger attacks when it does fire, so that I maximize its use through efficiency.
I cant stand the idea that its firing while Im not in combat......whether its standing at the door before we hit first mob, or firing and wasting my BU between mobs. I could possibly be wasting it on a tier 1 power or even 2nd or 3rd tier power(yes I know there are exceptions depending on power combos)
I could be wasting it on a mez power that does nominal dmg, like say....."char", I dunno. Or maybe it fires while Im using a power like Decieve that does 0 dmg, or applying a 0 dmg debuff or defuff toggle? There are just so many situations it could fire without being able to utilize it, and when u factor in that it only lasts for 5 secs.....I'm getting the cold sweats just typing about it(hehe ).
I would simply rather know I'm going to be maximizing its capabilities when it does finally fire for me, thats all. I do understand your preference for slotting it your way, it gives you alot of opportunities.


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....meaning...mostly when your not in battle.

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THAT is a flawed piece of logic.

Do you turn off Tactics when not in combat? Because you're also wasting the Tactics buff itself for all that time.
The only reason you don't waste a click power is cause you're not constantly firing the click power when not in combat. It's an illusion of a distinction.

Consider if the proc was not actually a power unto itself, but was a buff to the effectiveness of the Tactics you're running.


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For starters, the benefits of running tactics are a constant. As long as its toggled on, you receive the buff/benefits of tactics. Whereas the proc and its relationship to you/tactics "in its usefulness" to you, are random occurances and only useful if you are able to take advantage of when it fires. If you cant reliably do that....one could argue, what real usefulness does it serve if I cant utilize its abilities. Like throwing darts with your eyes closed, to me.

I would submit my logic is no more flawed than yours.

I'm sure you can come up with combos or powers that would merit its slotting to be superior when in tactics.
But for me, I have more confidence that I'm making the most out each every fireing of that proc when its slotted in a click power. Every time it fires, I know I'm putting my best 1 or 2 dmg attacks in place and getting the most out out of that fireing. Provided I dont miss.

I never slot that proc in tactics, if I can avoid it. I always use it in aim and build up, or "click type" powers. Allows me more control over when the proc goes off, which I can use to my toons advantage. If placed in tactics, you do not control when it fires. It simply is always randomly proc'ing 1 every 200 seconds.....meaning...mostly when your not in battle.

Oh yea?!?!?? Well I was hauling rocks outta the quarry with my stegosaurus and whooping Barney in bowling with bare feet on the alley before you were........

rotfl. funny.

So people should "let" you kill them sometimes and not attack back? I'm not sure why you felt when others were using their powers, it was ganking? They cant very well just let you tee-off on them bro.
You wanted to know some things about your build. I think you may have found them out, but not liked what you found?

Only a few variables here.....the build....or your skill/decision making while playing it. Also reflex time, compared to "having to think" about what your reactions to attacks were going to be need to be taken into account, to be fair. PvP speed is different than PvE speed. Damage spikes in PvP are like AV/EB dmg in PvE.

Lots to consider. While the "lrn2pvp" can get under your skin sometimes....kep in mind, thats the very reason its being said. Any advantage is a good one so long as its not an exploit. Try some different builds and definately team more. A decent PvP team can make a world of difference in how much fun you have. And lets face it.....fun is killing the other guy before he gets you.

I turned my widow into a fort and got owned alot. Not because the fort was not a viable pvp toon but because I needed to lrn2pvp with it. My reaction times were slow and often found myself thinking instead of reacting. That had a domino affect on my awareness while in the zone. I was caught off guard more easily and as a result dropped faster than usual. Often without even putting up a fight. Time and practice should fix this for me. I figure another 20 hours of messing in the zone and I should be quite omw to ganking with him.

I hope you give it more time and consider the variables before you turn away from PvP. There IS fun to be had for you. Not to mention, that combo just may not be "right" for "you". Try some of your other toons and see which you feel most confident on.
Best of luck either way. Hope to see you there.