Gaussian's Synchronized Fire Control Proc

Could this proc be placed in Tactics from the leadership pool, and if so how does is work? Does it have a chance to go off every few seconds, or jsut when i activate itor what?

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@Mazzo Grave
Webmaster Grave, Virtueverse!
Energy/Energy Blaster Guide

Yes, you can slot it. Yes, it has a chance to go off every 10s.

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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

WANT.

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@Mazzo Grave
Webmaster Grave, Virtueverse!
Energy/Energy Blaster Guide

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Could this proc be placed in Tactics from the leadership pool, and if so how does is work? Does it have a chance to go off every few seconds, or jsut when i activate itor what?

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If my toon has tactics there is a very stron change a 6 set of guaus is being placed
there the set is just that good, the proc is just gravy. The 10 sec chance to fire has
already been answered.

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WANT.

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Eh, it only has a 5% chance every 10 seconds. One can never be sure when that will happen. Also, the "Build Up" lasts only 5 seconds. The only reason I slot it anymore is to get the tier 6 set bonus of +2.5% Meele, Range and AoE.

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The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU

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WANT.

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Eh, it only has a 5% chance every 10 seconds. One can never be sure when that will happen. Also, the "Build Up" lasts only 5 seconds. The only reason I slot it anymore is to get the tier 6 set bonus of +2.5% Melee, Range and AoE.

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I never slot that proc in tactics, if I can avoid it. I always use it in aim and build up, or "click type" powers. Allows me more control over when the proc goes off, which I can use to my toons advantage. If placed in tactics, you do not control when it fires. It simply is always randomly proc'ing 1 every 200 seconds.....meaning...mostly when your not in battle.

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Jonny I don't think your wrong to think that but let me point out a few things
first if you 6 slot (after all that def bonus is that awsome on a def toon, and
even some none def toons) the set you have about 3 SOs of to hit and 2 SOs
of reduced end and 2 of recharge so already your not doing as great on rech
as a set like adjusted targeting. Now this makes little difference in a power
like Tactics but in a Aim or BU that is on a base 90 second timer it does.

Course lets just assume a sec that you only use the proc, after all not all
build for full sets. And well even say you've got a rechage intensive build
with Aim every 30 seconds, thats still a proc 1/3 as often as youd get in
tactics. True that one in Tactics could be going unused, but with 3 times
the likely hood to activate I'll take those odds, as this also assumes you
use aim literaly every time it comes up to be only 1/3 as bad if you wait
and only use it once every min (or if your build was less intensive in rec)
then your only procing 1/6 as often.

There is one power that I can't fault anyone for a second for puting this
proc in "Follow up" (or other simmilar powers). These click powers that
are less then 20 seconds without sloting are insainly great places for this
proc, if you dont want the set bonus. Because with sloting a 20 second
rechage power will be like 12-6 seconds on average so you'll likley be
procing even more then the Tactics situation, and like Jonny said you will
know when you wanted it to proc in this type of click power over tactics.
But IMO only if you have that type of speed in rechage is it worth it, Aim
and BU with thier 90 second timers I don't consider.

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....meaning...mostly when your not in battle.

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THAT is a flawed piece of logic.

Do you turn off Tactics when not in combat? Because you're also wasting the Tactics buff itself for all that time.
The only reason you don't waste a click power is cause you're not constantly firing the click power when not in combat. It's an illusion of a distinction.

Consider if the proc was not actually a power unto itself, but was a buff to the effectiveness of the Tactics you're running.

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Well, I can see how you may feel more comfortable and confident with it in tactics. I definately see how you will get a TON more times that it will "fire" if its in your toggle.
If I was to guess, I would guess slotting it in tactics would yield about a 7 to 1, or "more", proc ratio. Maybe you would get 15 procs to my 1? Heck I dunno.

I just prefer to have "some" control over "when" it might proc. I(personally) dont want it proc'ing randomly(you know what I mean ) when I cant take full advantage of when it does fire.
I am only getting a 5% chance of it fireing. I want to be sure I'm actually attacking, and its one of my stronger attacks when it does fire, so that I maximize its use through efficiency.
I cant stand the idea that its firing while Im not in combat......whether its standing at the door before we hit first mob, or firing and wasting my BU between mobs. I could possibly be wasting it on a tier 1 power or even 2nd or 3rd tier power(yes I know there are exceptions depending on power combos)
I could be wasting it on a mez power that does nominal dmg, like say....."char", I dunno. Or maybe it fires while Im using a power like Decieve that does 0 dmg, or applying a 0 dmg debuff or defuff toggle? There are just so many situations it could fire without being able to utilize it, and when u factor in that it only lasts for 5 secs.....I'm getting the cold sweats just typing about it(hehe ).
I would simply rather know I'm going to be maximizing its capabilities when it does finally fire for me, thats all. I do understand your preference for slotting it your way, it gives you alot of opportunities.


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....meaning...mostly when your not in battle.

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THAT is a flawed piece of logic.

Do you turn off Tactics when not in combat? Because you're also wasting the Tactics buff itself for all that time.
The only reason you don't waste a click power is cause you're not constantly firing the click power when not in combat. It's an illusion of a distinction.

Consider if the proc was not actually a power unto itself, but was a buff to the effectiveness of the Tactics you're running.


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For starters, the benefits of running tactics are a constant. As long as its toggled on, you receive the buff/benefits of tactics. Whereas the proc and its relationship to you/tactics "in its usefulness" to you, are random occurances and only useful if you are able to take advantage of when it fires. If you cant reliably do that....one could argue, what real usefulness does it serve if I cant utilize its abilities. Like throwing darts with your eyes closed, to me.

I would submit my logic is no more flawed than yours.

I'm sure you can come up with combos or powers that would merit its slotting to be superior when in tactics.
But for me, I have more confidence that I'm making the most out each every fireing of that proc when its slotted in a click power. Every time it fires, I know I'm putting my best 1 or 2 dmg attacks in place and getting the most out out of that fireing. Provided I dont miss.

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I just prefer to have "some" control over "when" it might proc.

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you have complete control over when you are in combat.
whenever you are in combat, the proc does have a chance to roll, under the normal rules.
just because it's *also* rolling when you're not in combat should not be a factor in this decision one way or another.
you may view this as a loss of control, but really it's irrelevant to the proc effect.

It's a 5 second duration, with a 10% chance every 10 seconds. so a 5 second duration on average of 100 seconds. or a buff 5% of the time. it doesn't matter which time. The fact that it's up for 5% of your non-combat time does no in any way modify the fact it's up for 5% of your combat time.

Now if you think being up for 5% of your combat time is not worth it (either you can get a higher frequency from using it in a power you click more often than every 10 seconds, or you feel that the buff itself is too weak compared to a plain ToHit Buff) then that's a different story. But worrying about wasting a proc that's not costing you anything to keep firing is irrelevant.

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you may view this as a loss of control, but really it's irrelevant to the proc effect.

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While it's irrelevant to the functioning of the proc, it is not irrelevant to gaining maximal benefit from it. Given a 10-second window, one cannot conclude that the proc will simply increase ones average damage by the buff increase times the average percentage uptime of the buff.

This is because part of the 10-second window is virtually always lost. Even on deterministically triggered effects of this sort, such as Build Up or Follow Up, it is difficult with many powersets to fit an optimal set of attacks in that window. Time is lost to the animation of each attack, plus time spend doing things like closing to an enemy (if a meleer), switching targets when you defeat one, etc. And that's when you know you're about to get a buff, and can plan accordingly.

This is the primary objection to claims about how useful this proc is in a toggle. The likelyhood of being able to take best advantage of its effect is tiny when you have no way to predict its timing. If everyone spent all their time laying smack down on EBs, AVs and other "hard targets" where you stand there and sustain DPS for extended periods this effect would have little meaning. However, that's a radically oversimplified view of how we spend most of our time in the game, even when we are inolved in ongoing combat.

This is all avoided by choosing to slot the proc in a deterministic trigger power. Especially one which many players already plan to use in an optimized way (even if not maximally so). Indeed, if can you plan accordingly, you can potentially get better than simple average[/i] increase in your DPS by planning to use your highest DPSA attacks during the buff's duration.

This is no different than putting a power like Build Up on auto. I would simply never recommend that anyone do that, because they are likely continuously wasting the opporunity to use the power to best effect. But at least when they do that, it's not on a random activation timer.

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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

My sonic/devices has it in Amplify, the full set in fact. Most of the time I don't use Amplify unless I'm preparing to nuke or otherwise deal a significant amount of damage. Since I don't need it up that often I view the proc as a pleasant surprise when it does happen.

My claws/regen has it in Follow Up. Honestly, on that toon I'm attacking so fast I rarely even notice the Build Up effect. I can say that it is definitely not wasted on him though.

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Agreed with Follow Up. FU is something of a middle ground. It's clearly not a toggle, but it's something a Claws user would normally slip in their attack chain whenever possible. However, but virtue of the power's very nature, you're almost certain to actually be attacking when you get the extra buff from the proc. Somewhat like having the proc in a toggle a Claws user may not be planning to execute any particular sequence of attacks after laning Follow Up, especially if they are used to its effects being "perma", but they're certainly likely to actually end up spending attaks immediately afterwards.

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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

This has recently been discussed in another thread... but I will summarize my key points here:

1. If Tactics is running, then every 10 seconds in combat you have a chance to proc and receive the bonus. Let me use 30 seconds as a typical time a fight goes on. With this proc in tactics you will have 3 chances. That this effect may fire while you are not in combat is completely irrelevant as firing the proc does not involve any kind of suppression or waste of charges.

2. In comparison, with a 90 second recharge time, powers like Buildup will be able to roll 1 chance for firing every 45 seconds after heavy slotting. In other words, in a typical 30 second fight window you will get .6 chances of it working -- not even 1 reliable roll. If the power is less than maxxed out on recharge it will be even worse. (For sake of argument, I am assuming 3 generic recharges + a proc in buildup).

3. Thus, putting it in Tactics results in 5 times the number of chances of it firing in a fight than Build Up.

4. However, Followup can be reduced to less than 10 seconds of recharge and is typically put on Auto. Thus, it is as good or better than Tactics, depending on your exact slotting. I would argue, however, that if you have strong ranged attacks it would be preferable to put it in Tactics because you might at times not be able to reach another foe to melee with but could blast them at range; it really depends on your exact build for that but I am thinking of my own hybrid Fortunata who starts fights at melee range and usually ends up blasting runners or second spawns with ranged attacks.

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I've had this proc slotted in my VEAT's Tactics power for quite a while, and I would not bet against it NEVER having helped me. However, the sixth set bonus that it gives me access to (2.5% to all positional defenses) is absolutely worth it.

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Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.

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you may view this as a loss of control, but really it's irrelevant to the proc effect.

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While it's irrelevant to the functioning of the proc, it is not irrelevant to gaining maximal benefit from it. Given a 10-second window, one cannot conclude that the proc will simply increase ones average damage by the buff increase times the average percentage uptime of the buff.

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*sigh*. Toggle slotting is still irrelevant.

At any given instant, there is a 5% chance that the proc in a toggle is buffing your upcoming attack. (computed from a 1-in-10 chance it fired on the last check, and it would last half the time to the next check so that's a 50/50 chance the power has not expired yet.) (yeah, this would be easier with a 10 second duration was the effect not bugged, but whatchagonnado?) anyways, a 5% chance that *right now*, as I start to attack something, that attack has a build up effect in place for me thanks to the continual checking of the toggle.
That 5% chance is irrelevant of what I was doing a moment earlier. Did it fire while I was finishing off the prior mob? Did it fire while I was popping insps getting ready to charge? Doesn't matter. Yeah, sure, the 5% chance is a bit streaky, but who cares?

You get times it builds up, wastes 4 seconds and you fire a shot on the last second. You also get times where it builds up, you deal a killing blow on your next shot, and waste the 4 seconds afterwards - does that setup make it useless to you? Neither is really affected by it being in a toggle. It's just the nature of the effect.


With some quick numbers,
The effect is up for 5 out of every 100 seconds on average.
If you take 25 seconds to kill a boss, consider the build-up as benefitting you for 1 boss fight in 4.
Does it matter to you if all 4 bosses are in one room? or if there is 1 in this mission, one in the next, with a trip to the market in between? No.
Now if 1:4 bosses is not useful enough to you to justify the slot, that's a different story. But the toggle doesn't affect that decision. (and honestly, it's the time it takes to kill a boss that I think makes the decision. You really don't need buildup to fight minions no matter what it's slotted in.)

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*sigh*. Toggle slotting is still irrelevant.

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Kindly read the rest of my post. The rest of your post completely fails to address any argument I made. You have simply reiterated your earlier argument in more detail. And I have explained why this earlier argument is, bluntly, wrong. It is based on an inaccurate and impractical model of how we play the game. Viewing the benefit of something averaged over infinite time is pointless. This is not a mathematical excercise. It is about practical benefit realized in real play.

Your model for analyzing the proc's benefits requires one to average its behavior over all play over all time. Yes, analyzed in that way, eventually the proc will activate for every attack we have, and eventually proc just in time for a full attack chain. Other times it won't. Realizing its average benefit is not going to happen in one game session and isn't even likely in several dozen. That's an impractical and unrealistic approach to take, given better alternatives. Lack a BU-type power? Knock yourself out slotting it in a toggle. I tried it, I payed attention to it, and I decided I had better things to do with my slots.

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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

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Kindly read the rest of my post. The rest of your post completely fails to address any argument I made.

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I did. your arguments don't have any logic behind them. You talk about buildup on autofire - that's a poor comparison since buildup itself has an activation time that would disrupt your attack timing if on its own schedule.

Now if buildup fired for free... kinda like how tactics continually produces a buff without you having to reactivate it, and sometimes it's a better buff...

look, you can still say it's too weak for the use of a slot, but the toggle by its nature doesn't change that.

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What it boils down to for me is this: If I cant harness it's power when I'm about to throw my best/strongest attacks, then what good is it to me, or anyone really? It doesnt give you a BU animation, so you dont know if its active or not. Slotting it in a click power which you naturally use before firing your best offensive attacks virtually guarantees that when it doees fire you are getting its maximum benefit. Slotting it your way ruins any chance of that. Having my one out of 10 chance proc when Im speed boosting someone seems pretty useless.

Different strokes for different folks

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What it boils down to for me is this: If I cant harness it's power when I'm about to throw my best/strongest attacks, then what good is it to me, or anyone really?

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...and since if you've slotted it in Build Up, it probably will NOT be available unless its been 45 seconds since your last fight and/or you have saved up your activation of BU for this key moment. You are not taking into account the 90 second base recharge time of aim/buildup.

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It doesnt give you a BU animation, so you dont know if its active or not.

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Hello, /togglecombatnumbers ... select 'monitor' on damage bonus. Also handy for determining if your Siphon Power is still stacked.

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Slotting it in a click power which you naturally use before firing your best offensive attacks virtually guarantees that when it doees fire you are getting its maximum benefit. Slotting it your way ruins any chance of that. Having my one out of 10 chance proc when Im speed boosting someone seems pretty useless.

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Again, false logic. Though you have a 1/10 chance of the proc firing during the 10 second period when you are speed boosting, you have another 1/10 chance in the NEXT ten seconds and the ten after that if it's in Tactics. Your way you're rolling the die when you start your attack chain, and then only if you haven't just been in a fight for the previous 45 seconds. My way you're rolling the die when your attack begins, and 10 seconds later, and 10 seconds later. In a situation like the Imperious Task Force, you are really going to be fighting constantly unless something Stops you.

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What it boils down to for me is this: If I cant harness it's power when I'm about to throw my best/strongest attacks, then what good is it to me, or anyone really?

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I get that from a certain perspective - you always want it to fire right before Ripper, not right after Ripper when you're only going to have Swipe and Lunge handy.
But consider that most power balance factors in activation times. That one shot of your best/strongest attack may not actually make a difference compared to multiple other attacks - ESPECIALLY if you're talking about taking swings at anything lower than a boss.

But if it comes down to rolling every 45-90 seconds in Build Up vs 4.5 to 9 *times* as often... do you think it will fire off right before ripper one time in 9? 2 times in 9? 3 times? what percent of your attack time do you spend firing your best attacks?
The Proc will be more frequent in Tactics than Build Up. It you'll get it before Ripper some times, and ALSO get it other times, and on top of that even get it when you don't need it *too* - but not when you don't need it *instead*.

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It doesnt give you a BU animation, so you dont know if its active or not.

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Hello, /togglecombatnumbers ... select 'monitor' on damage bonus. Also handy for determining if your Siphon Power is still stacked.

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Yup. Even monitoring the healing delivered channel doesn't work. I've had it call out a Boost Up with no bonus, and had stealth bonuses as well. Monitoring damage is sorta second nature for me though - Brutes and all that.

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Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm

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...and since if you've slotted it in Build Up, it probably will NOT be available unless its been 45 seconds since your last fight and/or you have saved up your activation of BU for this key moment. You are not taking into account the 90 second base recharge time of aim/buildup.

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That is simply not true. We're comparing the deterministic timing of Build Up with the non-deterministic timing of a toggle.

You can't simply go on about how much more often it can fire in a toggle while ignoring that you can't maximize how fully you can benefit from it in a click. I assert that you will gain more benefit from it by knowing exactly when it fires than you will by having it fire randomly.

Also, its average proc rate in a toggle is once per about 3 minutes.

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It doesnt give you a BU animation, so you dont know if its active or not.

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Hello, /togglecombatnumbers ... select 'monitor' on damage bonus. Also handy for determining if your Siphon Power is still stacked.

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My damage bonus monitor is always green and usually variable, especially on a team. It is abolutely useless as a visual indicatior that I should begin an effective burst damage chain at any given moment.

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Slotting it in a click power which you naturally use before firing your best offensive attacks virtually guarantees that when it doees fire you are getting its maximum benefit. Slotting it your way ruins any chance of that. Having my one out of 10 chance proc when Im speed boosting someone seems pretty useless.

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Again, false logic.

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Your unwilliness to accept it does not make it false.

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Though you have a 1/10 chance of the proc firing during the 10 second period when you are speed boosting, you have another 1/10 chance in the NEXT ten seconds and the ten after that if it's in Tactics. Your way you're rolling the die when you start your attack chain, and then only if you haven't just been in a fight for the previous 45 seconds. My way you're rolling the die when your attack begins, and 10 seconds later, and 10 seconds later.

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So what? On any given 10 second interval you have no idea if it will go off. If it does, you have no way of controlling the relative timing of that event with your attacks. You can only ever say that you will benefit the average effect over the long haul. You can never depend on the effect in any short-term window. While putting it in a click doesn't make it any more likely to occur per activation, it does always mean you have the opportunity to benefit fully any time it activates.

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In a situation like the Imperious Task Force, you are really going to be fighting constantly unless something Stops you.

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That's a radical overgeneralization. It depends completely on how you play the TF. It might shock you to know that not everyone fights every mob every time.

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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

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Kindly read the rest of my post. The rest of your post completely fails to address any argument I made.

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I did. your arguments don't have any logic behind them.

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I'm sorry, but I have no respect for anyone who can read what I posted and declare it to have "no logic". That's beyond disagreement and into sheer stupidity.

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You talk about buildup on autofire - that's a poor comparison since buildup itself has an activation time that would disrupt your attack timing if on its own schedule.

Now if buildup fired for free... kinda like how tactics continually produces a buff without you having to reactivate it, and sometimes it's a better buff...

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That you think that even a zero-activation-time Build Up on auto would be a good idea is indicative of your failure to either accept or understand the argument against the wastefullness of such an approach. Is it better than nothing? Yes. Is it the best approach? Absolutely not.

Edit: It seems likely that arguing this further is fruitless.

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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA