Johnny_Butane
-
Posts
2441 -
Joined
-
Quote:If Arcana is involved to that degree I'm not sure I'd want to play that hypothetical MMO.Originally Posted by Starsman
*kicks the rumor mill on full power*
Who knows, maybe she already was approached to do a "new breed of MMO", something that can be done with a smaller budget without server dependencies and this thread is just her first assignment at scounting player feedback on the concept.
. -
Quote:Indeed.Originally Posted by Starsman
That almost sound as you are discretely saying "I am aware of private statements addressing that topic specifically that I can't talk about right for obvious reasons"
But, in a world where even well-funded games with experienced crews never even make it to beta, I'll take it with a tea spoon of salt.
. -
Rather than start a new thread for it I have to ask: Has Matt Miller or the others expressed any opinion either way about doing a spiritual successor to CoH? I mean, I know that final bell hasn't rung here yet but I'm curious and I'm honestly just looking for something to hope for.
I can see how this is something they may want to, but I can also see why they may be burnt out on super heroes and how they may want to move on to something else. Like I said, it's too early to say anything, I just want to know if the desire is there.
. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Thunder Knight
That is semantics. People were coming and going from Paragon all the time. Many (not all, of course, but many) of the people who were working there when the announcement hit on August 31st had been there less than two years, Zwillinger included.
Was the company somehow not Paragon Studios when Castle was in charge of powers? Was it not Paragon when EMPulse or Beastyle were community manager? Was it not Paragon Studios when BAB was lead animator? Was it not Paragon when Sexy Jay was making costumes?
Of course it still was. And of course it still would be again if the new lineup wasn't 100% the same as the old lineup.
I am not getting into a grandfather's axe argument over this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
Paragon Studios is no more and will never again be; that is how I feel.
. -
Quote:This is just as an aside.Originally Posted by Starsman
Either Paragon Studios will manage to reform with the help of some investors and buy the IP, or the game will be lost. I don't expect anyone but Paragon Studios will be interested in acquiring the IP, and am 100% sure NCSoft wont decide to keep it running.
The team likely wont be the same, some may already have been lucky enough to find a job and may opt to stay there instead of returning to a risky venture.
Not to argue semantics, but any team that may form will not be Paragon Studios in my opinion. Some of the devs, at least I hear, have already found other jobs. And as Zwill pointed out, a community manager would be the last person a new/reformed studio would need so he'd still be out. A reformed/new studio, even with the same name, will never be Paragon Studios without those people. Not in my book at least.
I wouldn't mind one bit if something like you said happened, though it's incredibly unlikely in my opinion. But even if it did, it doesn't mean things go back to what they were. What we once had is gone forever.
. -
Quote:I agree that could be the case, but I don't know what that news could be.Originally Posted by Starsman
I hope they are holding them due to potentially positive news.
Best case scenario is that another studio picks up CoH. Odds are they will take it in an entirely different direction. At best they finish up i24, but anything past that will be all them. Meaning anything the Paragon team says is mostly irrelevant.
Second best case scenario, they decide to leave the server(s) on, but no more development is made to CoH. Even then, there's nothing for the questions to really spoil as they are still irrelevant.
Now that I think about it, the likely answer is that nobody is going to say anything until they find out if it endangers they severance package or not. That's probably the real reason, sadly.
. -
Quote:Originally Posted by katnap
Two weeks and we have heard nothing, the community has been fantastic, Tony and his team brilliant, so many people have done more than anyone could ask, and more.
NCsoft cannot have missed what we have been saying, I don't beleave they are unaware of our actions, I think they are ignoring us, and they can continue to do that until the servers shutdown, they have nothing to lose, it's all just business to them, money, not people.
Tonyv sounds worried in his last post, I am worried, I'm sure many others are too.
I'm not giving up, but the fight is hard, I think we deserve an answer now.
Ncsoft, tell us, put us out of our misery, 'is there any chance that COH will be saved ? yes or no', thats all we, well, at least that's all I ask, am I really asking that much ?
Two little mice fell into a bucket of cream. The first mouse quickly gave up and drowned, but the second mouse, he struggled so hard that he eventually churned that cream into butter and he walked out.
. -
Quote:That's why we're two completely different people.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I too feel if you want to fight crime in Kings Row forever, you should be able to. But why would you want to? And the answer, for me, is related to what rewards combat grants.
For me, it's a question of what kind of story do you want to take part in. Do you want to be a martial artist deadicated to cleaning up Hell's Kitchen? Do you want to explore other dimensions with three friends? Do you want to help little old ladies out of trees and cats cross the street with the occasional tussle with a super science villain thrown in? Heck, even if you want to be the guy they call when kaiju attack, that should be a valid game play experience.
I don't object at all.Quote:What if the reward for fighting crime in Kings Row was earning reputation as a crime-fighter in Kings Row? In a sense, Kings Row would be a meta-contact, and fighting crime in KR would increase your reputation with Kings Row itself. You'd get missions and other benefits other players didn't, for being a well-known KR crime fighter.
You could even expand this to be more finely grained. You could earn reputation for being a Lost-hunter in Kings Row, a Skulls smasher, a Hellion wrecker. It would be like the progress bars for defeat badges, but more open ended and with a gameplay purpose.
This wouldn't just be window dressing either: Kings Row progress would be fundamentally different from Skyway progress or Dark Astoria progress.
In other words, the way I would make the game levelless is not by eliminating combat modifiers and exemplar code. It would be by eliminating the notion of linear leveling. Without it, there's nothing to level. This would extend all the way to character progress. Fighting street thugs in Kings Row would be really good for improving martial fighting skills, shooting at things, etc. Not as good for learning other kinds of skill. But that part requires a lot more thought and discussion into the precise way combat and skills would work.
I'm a little hesitant about basing skill around it, but that's putting the hypothetical cart before the imaginary horse.
. -
I forgot, the other thing a new superhero MMO could learn from GW2: Level-less levels/level scaling.
You never "outlevel" an area or the enemies in it and you never lose access to powers. Your dark night avenger could stay in a gritty Kings Row-type zone and fight street level thugs forever if you wanted.
. -
I think someone making a new super hero MMO could borrow a lot from Guild Wars 2.
Like the dynamic events system; having random crimes happening in the world. The problem I've always had with CoH is there's really no reason for the city zones. They just exist as space between mission doors, and to me that doesn't compute when Spider-Man or Bats spend like 90% of time swinging around the open city on patrol. So I'd love to see the same thing brought into the super hero context. To further the idea, completing these events could lead to revealing "clues", if you have investigative skills, that in turn lead you to an instanced mission and part of a greater story arc. Or if you're not the detective type, it's off to the next random disaster.
I think half of their power system is a good idea. If you're a "fire guy" you have access to all the fire powers, but you can only equip so many. If you want to control you can grab the ring of fire type powers and if you want damage you can go for the fire ball type powers. Obviously, I don't think super heroes would be swapping out "weapons" on the fly. You shouldn't have a super strength guy switching to a martial artist or swordsman whenever he feels like it. Although maybe if they grouped them together in sets; super strength+titan weapons and martial arts+swordsmanship for example.
They've got a rudimentary system for environmental interaction with their "weapon bundles". You can find bits of rubble to pick up and toss. Now if only they were cars. You have Elementalist I believe that can create ice weapons; that could be expanded upon greatly by having everyone's attacks create different weaponizable items as a side effect.
Before the beginning of this month I would have said I'd like to see what the GW2 team could do with a super hero MMO. Now not so much. Additionally, for all the "progress" they've made in furthering the MMO they're still embracing some of the worst aspects of the worst and not learning from CoH. What a new super hero MMO should not borrow:
-Hair-pulling difficulty for TFs (and no difficulty setting in general).
-"We got rid of the trinity!" Yes, you just made everyone a glass cannon or fragile speedster and made sure allocating points to anything other than crit damage is meaningless.
-You like crafting? To level it up, produce a mountain of worthless common junk nobody will ever buy! And then spend more to break it down again! Just for a Legendary weapon skin that wont be all that unique in a month.
-Pay to win like you wouldn't believe.
. -
Quote:Caltrops in GW2 function similarly to those in CoH in that they're an AoE with minimal damage.Originally Posted by Starsman
Auto attacking is an exploit?
Unlike CoH, they don't have XP eating police drones. They have NPC guards that are fairly competent. Additionally, in GW2 you only have to tag an enemy to get full credit for the kill, even if an NPC does 99% of the damage in defeating it.
Thus, the only reason to go AFK with caltrops on auto is if you want to sit in a place that enemies like to attack regularly, like a base, that's also full of NPCs that will fight for you while you're AFK.
Which is exactly what people have been doing en mass, and what those knuckleheads got caught doing. In fact there are several well travelled spots already notorious for that purpose, so it's incredibly easy to catch them in the act.
You'll find them all huddled in a group, with AoE attacks on auto, "all having their lunch" they claim, for hours upon hours at a time. You can also tell if they are in fact running bots/additional key macro software because the key to loot an enemy is the same as to talk to an NPC, so you just have to look for the NPCs standing next to them saying "How's it going?" over and over.
There's no script or automated function needed to catch these people. They leave their characters in this state for hours at a time in populated areas (for extra protection). They're about as smart as the criminals who break into people's houses and fall asleep on the couch. And since they've been caught red handed and banned already, they've got nothing left to lose by going online and pleading innocence. That's when we get to point and laugh.
. -
Dear NCSoft
City of Heroes, an eight and a half year old title, is trending on Twitter.
Efforts to save it have met with almost unanimous support from the gaming community as a whole; nobody wants to see the game, the studio or the property, die.
You have something very special here. Something special created by a dedicated group of artists for a dedicated audience who will fight so it will continue to live and thrive...if you will only let it.
Why do you want to throw that away?
. -
Quote:I'm already seeing some glaring issues and red flags with the design and balance.Originally Posted by Starsman
Well, Johnny... I am forced to thank you. I had some interest to try the game out of pure curiosity (because it DOES look gorgeous, despite my dislike of outdoor content) but this here kills it for me 100%.
Right now as I type this I'm in the high level 80 zone.
There is (to put everything into CoH terms) a GM walking back and forth maybe 10 yards from a major base filled with players who aren't fighting it. What are they doing instead? Half of them are sitting AFK at the other end of the base by the gate with their equivalent of Foot Stomp on auto because this happens to be a base that gets invaded at short intervals and the NPCs are adequate at fighting them off on their own. All a player has to do is merely tag an enemy once and get full credit for defeating it; and that is enough to earn them a gold badge for contributing to the invasion event and earn a fair amount of reward merits without even being present. The other half of players are taking a break from that. They've moved over to the trading house NPC and are currently gaming the market and driving prices up on crafting goods with the items and drops they've gotten from being AFK.
And this is the norm because nobody wants to drag their butt out to the far end of the zone to do an event that may not even attract enough people to complete. While the events do scale to the number of people, like a CoH Task Force many start at a point far beyond what typical solo player could handle and only go up from there.
Currently, pretty much every large team event is like Battle Maiden on the Apex as played against a bunch of SO'ed Scrappers, except she's got a damage aura and the sword bomb patches have an even smaller margin for error. All the content post 40 tuned very brutally, pretty much because they want people to faceplant because repairing your gear that breaks when you do is part of the backbone of the game's gold economy.Quote:If there is no point to build for survivability, there is no point for me to try it since thats the gameplay I like.
. -
Quote:Because "no trinity" should not mean "anything but a fragile speedster DPSer is vastly inferior".Originally Posted by theHaunt
That said, Johnny, you're doing it wrong. No offense, but you are. They've been talking about a game with no pure tanks and healers for years now. You even mentioned the lack of the trinity in your opening line. So why the hell did you try to build a tank?
Why even let players spend points in Tactics and Defence if they're not going to be greatly beneficial to yourself or others? Paradoxically, taking more defence means I take more damage and faceplant more than someone that did not. Because ultimately they've made survivability (and anything but damage for that matter) meaningless and that's not good design.
I may try a Guardian. The game has only been out a week.Quote:That said, Johnny, if you want someone who captures some of the feel of an Invincibility of WP Brute, you want a Guardian. I run mine with sword/focus, and between 3 AoE blinds, 3 damage shields that totally block attacks, a ranged damage block/attack, and liberal dodging, I feel pretty damn resilient without having to sacrifice damage OR support.
But that doesn't nullify my point. Why should a defensively speced Warrior be greatly inferior? If the developers' intent is to get rid of the trinity and let people pick their own roles rather than shoehorned into one because of the class they took, making only one route for building that class viable defeats that purpose. I should be able to build a defensive Warrior and that should benefit me and my team greatly for doing so.
Currently, it doesn't, it just means I kill things slower, die more and contribute less to every team effort.
It makes me a fool for not putting my points into Strength or Arms like every other Warrior. It's not really a choice if every option but one is wrong, is it?
In that case, that's not me "doing it wrong"; that's a major flaw in the game's balance and design that goes against the stated philosophy behind it.
. -
Quote:Dropping the servers a half dozen times in a row will make NCSoft take notice.Originally Posted by Melancton
I am back in AP6 on Virtue, but I have to think that the hoss is going to stumble and collapse under the weight again...
Is that a good thing anyway, in a back-handed sort of manner?
How they'll respond is another matter.
. -
Quote:Complete removal of the Trinity without something in it's place doesn't produce good teaming. What you see in GW2 is a zerg fest. I often speak of the evils of tank/support/damage design philosophy, but the fact is it works, at least in some genres, as long as you're not a slave to it.Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Indeed, OT. I've been playing with a friend and quite simply it isn't as good as City of Heroes for teaming by any measure. If I bring my highbie along with his lower level character I have to basically pull all of my punches or I kill everything in one hit, exemplaring considered. We can run around zones together but if he's already been to some areas and I've already been to others it becomes pointless to even try to coordinate zone completion with one another, yet if we just focus on filling one person's hearts the other is basically left unrewarded. One nice thing I will say is that the mini-dungeons that contain a boss and treasure chest at the end are actually pretty fun to team up for. Unfortunately I've seen no more than one per zone, while some zones lack them entirely. Like everything else, teaming for them becomes unnecessary as soon as you out-level them a bit.
The problem in GW2 is "why should you build for anything other than damage(even when you can)?"
A simple example:
I had a Warrior that I built to be a 'tank'. I put his points into maxing out his Toughness and HP. I wanted to be the last man standing. The problem is that he isn't and that me sacrificing damage in no way benefits him or a team.
My friend has an offensive spec'ed Warrior. I run at two or three common enemies and start whittling them down. I take damage because the fight goes on so long and chances are those three enemies, even at 80 with rare gear, stand a good chance of killing me. My friend, who has about half the Toughness and HP I do, runs at them, crits them all and drops them in seconds, takes nearly no damage and doesn't even have to heal once. But that's just a couple trash mobs. What about crowds and fighting Champions? Well, the thing is, no matter how much Toughness and HP you get, it doesn't scale to the number of enemies you're facing. GW2 Warriors don't get an ability like Invincibility or Rise to the Challenge. And when facing a Champion, hell even a Veteran mob, the extra HP and Toughness is negligible at best; it's still about dodging and running from targeted AoE. And since there are no 'support' players, because Banners, CC and heals don't make enemies drop loot for you, even if you try to stand up to the enemy in these situations, you get zero help. Heck, I'm even still as susceptible to crowd control powers as someone who is trying to be a glass cannon or fragile speedster.
That's the main problem with the balance currently: if you're not build crits and raw damage, you're doing it wrong.
. -
Quote:I think we should focus on success first.Originally Posted by UnitV20
Who's going to clean up this huge mess on the forums?!
I don't want to be a demoralizing downer, but in the week since the announcement, have we had any real result?
Besides in efforts to create a private server, which will probably be targeted for termination by NC's lawyers, things look grim. All the signatures and virtual protest rallies in the world won't help if NCSoft is ignoring them.
I think we need to redouble efforts in getting media figures on our side. because that in turn can generate even more signatures and attention. 15,000 names on an online petition in a week isn't enough. We need to break six digits to even hope of making an impression. In another thread I suggested someone contact Angry Joe because he does play MMOs and he obviously likes superheroes and he does occasionally get the attention of the industry and nobody responded to that. There's also Yahtzee from Zero Punctuation. IIRC, he had a love on for City of Heroes, didn't he?
People really don't want me trying to work public relations, do you? We should be exploring every available avenue, and it has to be done by someone with people skills. IE: not me.
. -
Quote:I blew up a pirate ship made out of bone full of pirate zombies with a steampunk bomb cannon. Then me and a random passer by took down a giant ice golem that randomly erupted from the ground inside a friendly camp. Then I piloted a propaganda spewing mecha and helped a talking mole start a workers revolution. Then I jumped in to save another player who was being swarmed by fire breathing crocodiles who thanked me as I helped him to his feet as opposed to yelling that I 'stole his XP'. Then a giant frog turned me into a pig to hunt truffles while I used my pig super powers of running away and biting to evade angry ogres who also wanted said truffles. Then I found a sword that shot lightning bolts.Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Go on, tell me something that was really fun that you did in Guild Wars yesterday.
. -
I haven't watched the video yet, but has anyone thought of contacting Joe for the Save CoH front? To make a video or at least mention the effort the community is making?
You know the guy has a soft spot for super heroes, just look at his shirt.
. -
Quote:I think the point for spoiler warnings is long past.Originally Posted by UberGuy
T Also, I think it's neat that they planned to resurrect War Witch, though I think it could have benefited from a tiny bit more explanation about why they wanted to rez her in particular. (She's not the only ghost around.)
At lest they got to resurrect her in Night Ward.
. -
I think the lesson for studios is thus:
"You can have an award winning title with proven staying power, a dedicated and stable community behind it and be turning a profit and that doesn't mean a thing. Corporate will still shut you down without notice on a whim."
. -
Quote:"Through the End and Beyond" sounds about right.Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan
IF we avert disaster, I want a damn badge out of all of this. Account wide.
"You have survived the near-annihilation of Paragon City and the Rogue Isles. Even when things looked hopeless, you fought onward."
. -
In retrospect, they tried a lot of stuff that just didn't work, despite being cool ideas.
Gladiators, the Shadow Shard for example.
Also they had a bit of redundancy and waste. Two starter zones. Many zones for limited level ranges that didn't have much content. Granted, nobody can predict the future. When they were designing a Hazard Zone for each level range, they didn't know that future changes would all but kill street sweeping as a popular activity
They also exceeded their reach sometimes, planning for things down the road that, ultimately they never got to. They've been setting up the Coming Storm for years with way too many detours and distractions. Up until the end, they were setting stuff up in i24 they probably wouldn't get back to until i26 or i27, if that early. The Incarnate system is another example. They set up Omega way too early. In hindsight, they should have aimed for 5 slots, got them finished before they indicated there would be 5 more.
. -
Quote:That sounds right. Like I said, things get muddled. I was doing a lot of arcs, and only went through that mission once scanning for bugs.Originally Posted by Xzero45
Sort of.
In order to fix his suit, it would take all the power the space station had, destroying the station in the process but giving Keyes a powerful weapon to survive with once again. Then he discovers Metronome was going after the space station not to evacuate Praetoria, but because the sonic barriers in Last Ward were repaired and having that station would give humanity another powerful base and weapon to coordinate attacks against the Hamidon.
Keyes realized this and had a decision; sacrifice the station and humanity's last chance but repair his suit, or let Metronome have the station and use it to save their world.
So Keyes chooses to let Metronome have it. He knows know one will remember him, but his legacy and sacrifice would live on within that space station. Since Keyes' suit is so damaged he opts to simply sacrifice himself to land a major dent in the Devouring Earth by single handedly destroying one of their Avatars. He goes nuclear but, in his last moments, Metronome picks up Antimatter's commincation signals and discovers what he's doing. And that's how it ends.
Other things I recall:
-Tyrant and Dominatrix are alive and getting ready to stand trial for their war crimes. They expect Domi to get off easier because she helped the Primals in the Mag trial.
-Calvin Scott has completely lost it and goes to work for the Council. In the end he doesn't want to be remembered as a monster so he blows himself up to thwart their plan.
-Marauder: The serum he took in the Lambda trial has nearly crippled him. Cleopatra was killed by DE if you hadn't already killed her. First he "turns good" and works with your hero and your team of Praetorians (Aurora, Pendragon, Riptide and Marchand) in trying to convince Paragon citizens that not all Praetorians are evil by forming a SG. Then he betrays you to the Council when they offer to cure him and do. Then he says he was only playing double agent and betrays the Council and in the end you're left wondering if he can be trusted. Ultimately, the many of the remaining Praetorian citizens settle in Brickstown to be near the SG.
. -
Quote:IIRC, we don't see it, but Bobcat killed him in a rage after he tried to offer her up to save his own skin.Originally Posted by MisterD
WTF? That sounds super cool. Now I am even sadder I didn't get to play it Thats for the summary JB.
Did you also do the other i24 arcs? I think there was one about what happens to Neuron?
I forget if it was to Hamidon or Primal forces. Forgive me, the arcs are somewhat muttled in my head.
She's been de-powered by Vanguard after they took her into custody, but your villain springs her along with Mr. G and Duray(?) to work for you as part of a team of Praetorians you're putting together.
Meanwhile, we get to see Anti-Matter via his personal story. He's been fending off the Hamidon in the ruins of Neutropolis. His suit's damaged and he's trying to get to his space station to fix it and save himself because the DE have pretty much taken over. Metronome has beaten him to the rocket, however. Matronome is trying to get to the space station to coordinate efforts with Vanguard to evacuate the last remaining Praetorians to Primal Earth. Anti-Matter realizes that the rocket wont be able to take off because DE are headed there, so he goes deep down into the Underground to cause a distraction to allow Metronome to take off and save the people. As the DE close in, Anti-Matter goes critical shouting that even if no person knows of the sacrifice he made, at least the Hamidon will.
.