JayLeonHart_EU
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:My favourite Control set is Gravity - I have 5 Gravity Controllers and 2 Gravity Dominators. Missing GD on my Grav/Energy or Grav/Elec Dom was nowhere near as bad as missing GD or Transfusion on my Grav/Kin, missing GD or Sonic Siphon on my Grav/Sonic, or missing GD on my Grav/FF. Not such an issue on my Grav/Time or Grav Rad, however.Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
my point is dom's do worse with no enhancements than other AT's when soloing, specifically they are dependent upon a single attack hitting (to hold a foe) to a much larger degree than any other AT is dependent on a single attack hitting.
The only one so dependent is stalker - and they do not aggro if AS misses so they can simply wait and try again.
I put it to you that Controllers have it worse than Doms (and it's still not that bad) -
Quote:Must hug kioshi!Originally Posted by kioshi
if you want, go to beta and buy it in the market :d
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Quote:I forgot all about Apex. I still hope it's Hero 1 - Incarnate? Check! Fought in the Rikti war? Check! Red white and blue motif? Check!Originally Posted by GreenLantern68
I'd vote for Apex.
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I was going to say that Grav is my GoTo for Control and nothing else. Then I had a look over my characters...
Control - Gravity (x7)
Melee - Claws (x5)
Armour - Electricity (x5)
Blast - Radiation (x4)
Support - Force Field (x5) & Time (x5)
Grav FTW! Interestingly (to me at least), although I have a Grav/FF, Grav/Time and FF/Rad, I don't have a Claws/Elec... this must be remidied! -
For survivability on their own, I would place them;
Demons - High innate +Res to S/L/F/C/T (numbers vary), +Res shielding from T2, AoE & ST heal from T2, -Dmg aura from T3
Robotics - Decent innate +Res to L/C/P, overlapping +Def buffs from T2 (but no overlap on the T2s themselves), 2x ST heal from T2
Necromancy - High innate +res to S/L/C/N/T/P (type varies), -ToHit in some attacks, all pets get a self heal, control heavy T3
Thugs - Decent innate +Res to S/L/F/C/T (Bruiser), weak innate +Res to L (Enforcers) & F (Arsonist), stacking +Def auras from T2
Mercs - Decent innate +Res to S/L/F/C/T (type varies), ST heal from T1
Ninjas - Decent innate +Res to S/L/F (Oni only), innate M/R/A +Def (all except Oni)
Personally I've found FF, Time and Traps to be the most help at keeping my pets alive, in that order. However, reverse the order if you want to defeat things faster. I've had decent results with both Thermal and Storm but they were both used with Demons, so that may have skewed my perspecrive somewhat. Heard/read good things about Dark (very good, in fact) but I've not tried it for myself just yet.
I also have a Necro/Poison and since the Poison changes, have found him much more enjoyable. The uniques have really helped. Now if only we could get the Corruptor & Controller version of the T9... -
Quote:Ageless?Originally Posted by Combat
...no way to make up for the lost DDR...
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Quote:Ah, silly old me - when/why did that come about then?Originally Posted by Hopeling
No, that's the Warmth of Prometheus, which is a different buff.
[Edit] Hm, a buff for joining an Open League? Fair enough! [/Edit] -
Quote:Which is odd, since all my heroes (well both, since only 2 of them play iTrials) have been getting the Flames of Prometheus buff when entering iTrials, as have their Lore pets, even though they both have all 5 abilities equipped and have never done the required TF.Originally Posted by Hopeling
Moreover, getting an everlasting bonus to damage, health, and regeneration (albeit a small one) basically just for playing a villain would be silly.
[Edit] Ah, Warmth of Prometheus... cheers Hopeling [/Edit] -
Curse my EU-ness! Assuming there is a seperate EU team or we get a Friday/Saturday team going (as I can play at 2am then
) I currently have 3 lowbie MMs on Exalted;
Storm Daemon - Demons/Storm
Retro Virus - Necro/Time
Dillinger - Thugs/Sonic
I should be able to join any team up until Jan 3rd as I'm off work now, so here's hoping I can figure out timezones between now and then ^^ -
I'd be up for that, although I already have regular teams on Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Saturday at 8pm GMT and am UK based.
I've been making lots of MMs recently so this could be helpful for my altitis
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Here's a lazy answer from http://thesaurus.com/
For "Unstoppable"
Main Entry: irrepressible [ir-i-pres-uh-buhl]
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: effervescent, vivacious
Synonyms: boisterous, bubbling, buoyant, ebullient, enthusiastic, insuppressible, rebellious, rhapsodical, tumultous/tumultuous, unconstrained, uncontainable, uncontrollable, unmanageable, unquenchable, unrestrainable, unrestrained, unruly, unstoppable
Main Entry: relentless
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: continuous, neverending
Synonyms: incessant, nonstop, persistent, pertinacious, punishing, sustained, tenacious, unabated, unbroken, unfaltering, unflagging, unrelenting, unrelieved, unremitting, unstoppable
For "Indestructible"
Main Entry: indestructible [in-di-struhk-tuh-buhl]
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: lasting, unable to be destroyed
Synonyms: abiding, deathless, durable, enduring, everlasting, immortal, immutable, imperishable, incorruptible, indelible, indissoluble, inexterminable, inextinguishable, inextirpable, irrefragable, irrefrangible, nonperishable, permanent, perpetual, unalterable, unbreakable, unchangeable, undestroyable, undying, unfading
Main Entry: eternal
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: without pause; endless
Synonyms: abiding, ageless, always, amaranthine, boundless, ceaseless, constant, continual, continued, continuous, dateless, deathless, enduring, everlasting, forever, illimitable, immemorial, immortal, immutable, imperishable, incessant, indefinite, indestructible , infinite, interminable, lasting, never-ending, perdurable, perennial, permanent, perpetual, persistent, relentless, termless, timeless, unbroken, unceasing, undying, unending, unfading, uninterrupted, unremitting, without end
Main Entry: everlasting
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: infinite, never-ending
Synonyms: abiding, amaranthine, boundless, ceaseless, constant, continual, continuous, deathless, endless, eternal, immortal, imperishable, incessant, indestructible , interminable, lasting, limitless, perdurable, permanent, perpetual, termless, timeless, unceasing, undying, unending, uninterrupted, unremitting
Main Entry: immortal
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: death-defying, imperishable
Synonyms: abiding, amaranthine, ceaseless, constant, deathless, endless, enduring, eternal, evergreen, everlasting, incorruptible, indestructible , indissoluble, interminable, lasting, never-ceasing, never-ending, perdurable, perennial, permanent, perpetual, phoenixlike, sempiternal, timeless, undying, unfading
Notes: immortal means not subject to death, while immoral means violating principles of right and wrong or not adhering to ethical or moral principles
Main Entry: impregnable
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: unyielding
Synonyms: firm, fortified, impenetrable, indestructible , invincible, invulnerable, secure, solid, strong, unassailable
Main Entry: incorruptible
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: honest, honorable
Synonyms: above suspicion, imperishable, indestructible , inextinguishable, just, loyal, moral, perpetual, persistent, pure, reliable, straight, trustworthy, unbribable, undestroyable, untouchable, upright
For "Invincible"
Main Entry: invincible [in-vin-suh-buhl]
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: indestructible
Synonyms: bulletproof, impassable, impregnable, indomitable, insuperable, inviolable, invulnerable, irresistible, powerful, strong, unassailable, unattackable, unbeatable, unconquerable, undefeatable, unsurmountable, untouchable, unyielding
Main Entry: dauntless
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: bold, courageous
Synonyms: aweless, brave, daring, doughty, fearless, gallant, game, heroic, indomitable, intrepid, invincible , lionhearted, resolute, stouthearted, unafraid, unconquerable, undaunted, unfearing, unflinching, valiant, valorous
Main Entry: impregnable
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: unyielding
Synonyms: firm, fortified, impenetrable, indestructible, invincible , invulnerable, secure, solid, strong, unassailable
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I've been on a MM creation spree as of late;
Bots/Traps
Bots/Time
Bots/Sonic
Necro/Time
Demons/Storm
Along with my existing Necro/Poison, Bots/FF, Demons/Thermal and Thugs/Traps, I have to say the Demons/Storm has been the most fun and felt the most powerful by far - actually, the only one I feel is a bit "meh" is the Thugs/Traps but I have an aversion guns in this game so it's probably a theme issue.
So my vote, for only having 1 MM, goes to my Demons/Storm - Storm Daemon. -
Quote:Make that 4 characters to deleteOriginally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Even Grav/Sonic?
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It seems I need to delete my Grav/FF, Stone/Stone Brute and human PB
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Quote:Which is all fine and dandy, but has no bearing on whether Musculature boosts the damage done by a Blaster or Defender more. Sure, the gain from Musculature for other characters while boosted is likely greater, but that isn't (or rather, wasn't) what is/was being discussed. I think. This thread is too much of a mess for me to be sureOriginally Posted by seebs
No.
My point is this: Imagine two teams, one of 7 players without Musculature, and one with 7 players who all have Musculature. Now consider adding a defender or blaster without musculature to the first team, or a defender or blaster with musculature to the second.
The argument would be that, while the direct gain of musculature to the blaster is higher, the net effect on the defender may be higher, such that even though the blaster's buffed more by musculature, the second team will gain more total damage if they pick the defender.
Which is quite possibly true, but I don't really think it makes blasters superfluous; very few people are picking teams for maximal synergy and efficiency, mostly we pick teams for "cool costume" or "I know this guy" or "there was someone else in the zone? cool!"
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Quote:Aye, a damage cap increase would be welcomed - 700% seems fair. That is, a 200% increase, not a 700% increaseOriginally Posted by Another_Fan
And in terms of +damage blasters fair very badly here as well. They have a 500% percent damage cap, they can achieve 410/500 of that without musculature all by themselves (100% base damage+100% enhancements+50% defiance+160%)
Before musculature they can absorb an additional 90% base damage after its 60%. Somehow it just seems wrong that the "DAMAGE" at gets so little from outside damage buffs.
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Quote:Agreed. However, if you have someone doing an attack of 200 damage every 2 seconds vs someone doing an attack of 20 damage every second, that's a gap no amount of damage boosts is going to close.Originally Posted by Another_Fan
The point is that the percentage of time you are doing damage is mostly irrelevant.
If you have someone that is doing 150 dps but doing it as a single attack of 450 once every 3 seconds, then spends 2 seconds standing there, its no different then someone who attacks every second for 150. -
Quote:Riiiight, so your point is that 8 players with Musculature beats 1 player with Musculature? Genius!Originally Posted by seebs
There are two points to consider when asking how much effect musculature has on my contribution:
1. The effect of musculature on my direct damage.
2. The effect of musculature on my total contribution.
But wait! There's another pair to consider:
1. The effect on my total contribution of me having musculature.
2. The effect on my total contribution of other people having musculature.
Where a buffer gets the most benefit from musculature is probably the effect on total damage of other people having it. If the amount of damage my multipliers and bonuses are applying to goes up, the net effect of those bonuses goes up... -
Quote:That may be so, but it's hardly standard slotting.Originally Posted by Another_Fan
On most of the blasters I play Aim, and Build Up are available every 25 seconds or less. I like to lead with them.
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Quote:That appears to assume 50% uptime for Aim and/or BU - wouldn't 20% uptime be more appropriate? ~45s recharge with 3 lvl 50 Rech IOs, 1.17s activation time each and 10s duration.Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague
With only aim, a Defender has 50% Damage bonus, a Corr gets 42.5%, and a Blaster 62.5%. Whereas a blaster could split the difference between BU and Aim by alternating for every spawn, a Defender/Corr could only do so every other spawn - meaning their 95% only gains 25% or 21.25%.
Defender ends up with +120% (approx)
Corr ends up with +116.25% (approx)
Blaster has +176.25% (approx)
If the Defender/Corr gets PBU or Soul Drain from their ancillary/patron pools, the equation becomes a little less unbalanced, but both powers have a 4 minute recharge and as such are harder for me to plug into the equation quickly.
But, working with aim alone, Musc Radial Paragon results in:
Defender = +143.64% Damage (19.7% Increase)
Corr = +139.89% Damage (20.38% Increase)
A Blaster Cycling both Aim and BU gets:
Blaster = +199.89% Damage (13.41% Increase) -
Quote:For the bold part - which has 0% increase from the Corr or Defs Musculature, which is what we were talking about.Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Take the case of a blaster without a damage aura or pets, during the time the team is engaged, they spend time self buffing, using insps, avoiding/shedding aggro. If they are just using aim and buildup as often as possible they are doing damage only 80-90% of the time.
Controllers can actually be doing damage 100% with their pets (if they can keep them alive). Corruptors and Defenders turn the team into their damage by either buffing them or debuffing the enemies.
As far as spending time keeping yourself alive - that's generally done by blasting the snot out of everything you see, so that's still doing damage.
Aim + BU as often as possible? With 3 lvl 50 Rech IOS (reasonable to assume) that's ~45s recharge. 1.17s cast time each, so let's say 2.5s for both, since I can't recall the formula for Arcanatime. That gives (2.5/45)*100 = ~6%. I'll concede I was wrong about ~100% of the time, it's more like ~95% of the time.
I suppose a case can be made for Controller (and Dominator) pets. Whether that pulls them ahead wrt Musculatures boost I'm not too fussed about attempting to calculate - I'd imagine it may for Dominators but likely not for Controllers. -
Quote:I never said it was *good* damageOriginally Posted by Diellan_
If Blasters were tweaked so that more of their attacks did damage, then this would be correct. If their control powers did damage that wasn't 0.2 or less, or for most of their secondary powers to deal damage in addition to various forms of control/debuff/whatever, then this would be correct. Blasters could do damage ~100% of the time, but their powers don't really support it; in fact, my Brute is the one that does damage ~100% of the time (because he has Soul Drain, not Build Up, Dark Consumption, not Power Sink, etc) because the only powers he has to activate in combat are Hasten, Active Defense, OwtS, and Darkest Night, and those last two I only use when fighting AVs.
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Quote:Not 100%, ~100% - what else would activating a Blaster power do, if not damage? The vast majority are attacks, hence ~100% damage.Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Blasters do damage 100 percent of the time ? You are sure of this ?
Controllers and defenders can't do damage as much of the time as blasters do ? You are sure of this ?
The percentage of time you are doing damage is important why ?
P.S. in that analogy I didn't specify any ats, and the only time applicable was damage done per unit time. It doesn't matter why B was doing half the damage, just that he did half the damage/unit time
Can Controllers or Defenders deal damage 100% of the time? Sure. Would it gimp them horribly? Sure. Are the vast majority of their buff/debuff powers non-damaging? Sure. So assuming they use all their abilities, they would only be dealing damage ~50% of the time, no?
The % of time spent doing things is important because an AT who spends ~100% of their combat time dealing dmage, will gain a better boost from damage buffs (in this case, Musculature Alpha) than an AT that spends ~50% of their combat time doing things other than dealing damage.
How is this not basic? -
Quote:I did get that, it was simply worthless, since a Blaster does damage ~100% of the time and some the ATs you mentioned - Defenders and Controllers - don't.Originally Posted by Another_Fan
That would have been nice if that is what I was trying to do.
But what I was trying to demonstrate was why a smaller percentage increase in overall performance was less desirable than a larger increase in overall performance, and how you have to look at total performance not some small fraction.
Sorry you failed to get that.
I'm sorry you fail to see why your analogy is worthless. -
Quote:This is great - you're using this to compare a Blaster to a Blaster, right? You know, since they (generally) only do damage and little else? If you are, then the analogy works, although proves nothing helpful. If you intended to show that increasing a smaller number by a larger percentage is better and therefore Musculature is better for a Defender/Controller than a Blaster? Well, let's develop your analogy further to make it fit their roles;Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Actually its very meaningful and arguably the only meaningful number.
But before we talk about why we need to get some basic concepts out of the way.
How do you characterize how good a combat unit is ? It isn't just how much damage the unit does, and isn't just how much damage the unit does its the product.*
To understand this think of 2 boxers boxer A is twice as strong as boxer B but can only take half as many punches.
If boxer A fights boxer B you are going to have ties or the fight going to whoever gets the first punch.
Now lets say we make both hit 10% harder
They are still in parity. It takes both approximately .9 times as long to take out the other.
But now lets say, Boxer A hits twice as hard, but we will only give him 7.5% bonus and boxer B still gets his initial 10%
Boxer A is still getting more than boxer B he hits twice as hard so his absolute bonus is 50% more than boxer B's
But when you look at how long it takes them to kill each other boxer B is still at .9 and boxer A is at .94
So when blasters get the most absolute damage it is still the smallest increase to their effectiveness and it is the smallest by a wide wide margin.
They easily have the worst survivability and the the smallest percentage gain so its a double whammy for them
Boxer A only throws punches - 100% damage output
Boxer B spends half his time blocking, which halves incoming damage - 50% damage output, 25% damage reduction
Boxer A takes 100% of the damage from Boxer B
Boxer B takes 75% of the damage from Boxer A
If Boxer A deals 215 damage per hit and lands 10 hits a minute, that's 215*10*0.75 = 1,612.5 DPM to Boxer B
If Boxer B deals 110 damage per hit and lands 5 hits a minute (because although he could land 10, he spent half his time blocking), that's 110*5 = 550 DPM to Boxer A
So although Boxer A can only take half as much damage as Boxer B, he is producing nearly triple the damage output, since while Boxer B is splitting his time between punching and blocking, Boxer A is only punching. Boxer A wins. Every time.
Hurray for terrible analogies!