Hydrophidian

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  1. Hydrophidian

    hyperinflation

    Hi there, Fan!

    Hey, y'know, you completely disregarded a sizable chunk of my response! Well, boy-howdy, there's a surprise!

    Let's revisit the questions you ignored:

    - Do you see any real substantial amount of dialogue about multiple builds on these forums, anywhere?

    - Do you know of even a single player who uses all available builds on every single character they play?

    - Do you utilize every build on every character you play?

    No, I don't really want answers now. Frankly, the fact that you just blew 'em off the first time around tells me all I need to know about your sincerity.

    Quote:
    We also have no idea how rapidly people are adopting second builds
    Maybe you don't, but I have some idea. I don't see much indication that secondary builds are widely utilized, and if it were a nigh-universal practice--which it would have to be to cause a 'doubling of demand'--I would. We all would. It'd come up in conversation all the time: on the boards, on channels, in teams, and so on. "Let me switch to my other build." ... "I'm going to build out for X on my secondary build." ... "What kind of build should I add to my [insert AT here]?"

    But I haven't seen any of that at all. Not an immediate embrace of the option, nor a gradual one. My impression is that it's something a portion of the playerbase does on select characters. That may or may not be a correct impression, but one thing is certain: it most assuredly is not anywhere close to being a universal practice.

    And that was implicit in the claim.

    Hence the bewildered rejection of it.

    Quote:
    The people that do know, saw fit to take the trouble to give us a 3rd build, make of that what you will.
    The reasoning behind the 3rd build was stated. Personally, I think their prediction of how players will build is off. Regardless, if you're saying the introduction of the third build implies universal adoption of multiple builds, I'd disagree. I just don't see people operating that way.

    Quote:
    Saying it didn't happen because there was no sudden spike, is just out there.
    You're right! Who said that, anyway? 'Cuz it wasn't me!

    There are actually several reasons why I find it painfully obvious that filling out secondary builds is not pursued enough to substantiate a claim of 'doubling demand'.

    You would've known that if you read my post.

    So either you didn't really read it, or you did, and you just decided to try to reinvent it to fit your own purposes, leaving out the stuff that you didn't have an answer for.

    Either way, it suggests to me that you're not really the advocate of honesty and accuracy you're pretending to be.

    Quote:
    What even makes you think there should have been a spike?
    'Doubling' something implies spike to me? o.O

    Anyways, the point is, I don't remember seeing any shifts in the market that one might've expected if a large number of players were suddenly pursuing secondary builds. Nor do I recall any real discussion about it amongst the market crowd. No one was saying 'hey, this is happening, maybe secondary builds are the culprit?' The general impression at the time seemed to be more or less what it is now: it's a neat thing that some people in niche crowds (PVPers and players who favor support types) might take advantage of when they get around to it. Market impact: negligible.

    So... I saw no signs of a rush to it when it was introduced, and neither, apparently, did you, because I'm pretty sure you would've trumpeted 'em in your response if you had.

    I've also not seen any signs that the adoption of it has significantly grown in the two years it's been around, nevermind expanding to the point of becoming commonplace. And again, I'm assuming you haven't either, 'else you would've cited 'em.

    So, do you actually have anything at all to support the idea that this practice is common? Seems you don't. Which would seem to support my view that its lack of adoption is plainly evident?

    Quote:
    Now to take a look at what happened with i13.
    How about you just take a look at how people are playing the game?

    From what I can see, the behavior blatantly indicates that employing secondary builds is not at all a common practice. Personally, I'd guess it's rare. Uncommon might be debatable. But universal? No, clearly not.

    If you're not actually contesting that, then I'll consider this done! Have a spiffy day!
  2. Hydrophidian

    hyperinflation

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post
    My point exactly for both.
    Do you actually play the game, by chance?

    Were you watching the market when I13 was released?

    When I13 hit, was there a flurry of activity on the market forum about a sudden spike in demand for, well... everything? No, there wasn't.

    Yet, there's been discussion around here about every other game development that's had a significant impact on the market, yah? And a sudden 'doubling of demand' would've been a pretty frickin' significant and blatantly apparent development, right? So... why was this alleged phenomenon treated any differently? If 'demand doubled with the advent of two builds' why didn't discussions about it appear?

    Furthermore, do you see any real substantial amount of dialogue about multiple builds on these forums, anywhere? If it was a nigh-universal practice to utilize multiple builds, wouldn't it see as much community discussion as every other commonly adopted practice?

    Do you know of even a single player who uses all available builds on every single character they play? Because that's what's implicit in the assertion: that we're all doing that. I don't. Do you?

    I'd be hard pressed to accept the notion that maintaining multiple builds is more than a rare, niche practice, let alone the widely adopted behavior the claim implies. I mean, for Pete's sake, I've run across multiple people who didn't even know unlocking the Incarnate stuff opened up a third build on their characters!

    Anyway.

    "You seem to be completely forgetting that demand has doubled with the advent of two builds" was an absurd assertion, made even more laughable because it was presented as a given. It's obviously false to anyone who actually, y'know, plays the game and pays a modicum of attention to the trends that form in it.

    It's reasonable to assume anyone participating in discussions such as this possesses at least that baseline of informed awareness. Thus, having to "support" one's bewilderment and rejection of such an obviously inane statement shouldn't be necessary.

    And, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who demands such support is likely being a disingenuous participant in the dialogue, looking to derail it into a nitpicky, tedious footslog of ponderously qualified language.

    Yuck, no thanks.

    I'm gonna engage in these discussions casually. If you don't like that, put me on ignore.
  3. Hydrophidian

    hyperinflation

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quasadu View Post
    In either case, I say "show me the data." Until then, it's a baseless assertion that is being presented as fact and therefore cannot be used as a building block in one's argument, if one wants that argument to have any validity.
    Ding.
  4. BREAKING NEWS!

    My silly little arc recently got back up to 5 stars! And it only took just shy of 2 years to do it!


    (though, now that I've posted about it, it'll probably be dragged back down again... On the other hand, who reads the MA forums anymore?)


    Also, my main still wears the Illustrious badge title. Nanny-nana-booboo, devs!


    Seriously, though, thanks to the regulars hereabouts who kept bringing attention to my arc.

  5. Hydrophidian

    hyperinflation

    Quote:
    You seem to be completely forgetting that demand has doubled with the advent of two builds
    Wow.

    Uhm...

    No.
  6. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
    What are the best PvP experiences you’ve had, be it in CoH or any other game. We’re not talking about balance wise or delivery wise, but when you get down to it, what are the visceral and exciting PvP encounters that have left your heart pounding and your hands shaking? What is it about these experiences that made them so exhilarating and compel you to go out there looking for it again and again..?
    - Survivability. No one was an easy kill. Instant death happened rarely or not at all.
    - Contribution. Feeling as though I brought something valuable to the fight.
    - Achievement. Meeting conditions for victory or preventing the opponents from meeting theirs.
    - Positive atmosphere. Everyone was having fun. No surliness, no vitriol, just good spirits and friendly rivalries. Sometimes even (hysterical) roleplay.

    CoH has rarely delivered on all counts for me. But when it did, it was truly memorable. These rare instances were always in Siren's Call, back when open PVP was first introduced. I do believe that, out of all the PVP zones, Siren's Call has far and away the best design, and is most likely to engender the above conditions.
  7. Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheLadyK View Post
    I do think that there is an amount of time where the approach to the game becomes no longer casual - even if your approach to gameplay and game goals still is. Purely from the fact that someone who is spending enough time in game to call it a part time job... I just can't justify calling that a casual interest in the game, no mater what they are doing. (That's some hardcore Atlas Park dancing, right there.) That isn't a casual hobby any more, that's a focus of your life. However, there is a lot of overlap, its possible to be a non casual, highly focused player on much less gameplay time than double digit hours a week.
    This is why I think there needs to be a distinction between "casual play" and "casual player".

    I know a lot of people for whom the game is a social and/or creative outlet. I wouldn't call them casual players (or, maybe more accurately, casual subscribers?). They are most certainly 100% focused on casual play, though.

    Quote:
    You can casually hunt for badges, but I don't think you can casually have a badging toon. Having a toon for badges is a focused effort. (You can certainly be casual about the rest of the game, but if you have a badging toon, you're not a casual badger.)
    I'd disagree with this. I had a badger. But 1. there were always limits to what I'd do to get the badges, 2. I took my own sweet time getting them and 3. now that side-switching is involved, I've dumped it with a shrug. Badging, for me, is now more specialized.

    It comes down to demand for investment. If an activity doesn't demand much, it can be approached casually and will appeal to people who favor that approach. Most everything in City can be approached casually. I'd call that one of its strengths.

    Quote:
    I don't think you can casually set out to experience all the Praetorian storyline either.
    Can't you?

    I know a group of people who I would say are serious gamers, but with a somewhat casual approach to the games they play. They have multiple game nights, they coordinate their activities and have goals to achieve.

    But, when it comes to any given game, their time investment is minimal. With City, for example, they log in once a week for a few hours, do X (such as, for example a Praetorian arc), then log out. That's it.

    Is that casual? They could nod to most of your checklist, but do they really qualify?
  8. Quote:
    Originally Posted by GibsonMcCoy View Post
    Defining what makes a casual player in an MMO is very hard to do.
    If not impossible. Or... it could be absurdly easy. Depends on how you define it. This is part of why I say I think it's more about overall approach.

    My own approach and attitude is, in a broad sense, definitely casual. If it feels like grinding to me, I stop doing it. I'm pretty laid back about obtaining the shiny stuff: I'll get it when I get it. My characters are not performance-driven, my play style not very goal-oriented. I much prefer loose/experimental gameplay over structured teaming. Until recently, I averaged only one 50 a year. Only three of the 50s I have are "tricked out", and it's taken me literally years to get around to getting them that way.

    But I am, by no stretch of the imagination, a casual player.

    This is because, at any given time, I am deeply vested in some aspect of the experience. It might not even be something in-game (like my game-related audio projects), but, whatever it is, it's taking up a lot of my free focus and attention (which usually means a lot of my free time as well).

    I greatly value this game and the entertainment/inspiration/diversion/escape/exploration/community it's provided for me. I've been very dedicated to it for almost seven years now.

    Yet, despite the fact that I am by no measure a casual player, one of this game's fundamental draws for me has been its accommodation of casual play...
    • I don't have to worry about focusing all my time on one or two characters in order to participate.
    • Almost any character I create is going to have some capacity to solo.
    • Almost any character I create will contribute something useful to a team, and generally won't be excluded simply because they're not built just so.
    • I can goof around with a dizzying variety of concepts. There is no inherent pressure in the game design to specialize in a particular niche. Due to the sheer number of possible alts you can play, it actually encourages a generalist approach. I'm very fond of that because, although I strongly favor support types, I do like to dabble in everything.
    • Shiny stuff isn't a requirement. It's nice, but I don't need it. I still have some 50s with SOs, others with common IOs. They work fine, they contribute, they're still fun to play. They do not feel superfluous on a team (a feeling I particularly dislike).
    • I can throw a team together composed of just about any mix of anything and be relatively certain that there's a way to make the dynamic workable and successful (yes, there are exceptions to this rule, but they are few and far between, and tend to only need one of two components in the mix). I don't have to spend a lot of time constructing the optimal team configuration, and everyone can play what they want.
    • I can completely ignore the market, if I wish to do so.
    • I can delve into various aspects of the game (base building, MA, badging, marketing, PVP) and then put them aside again at will. None of these things require a "lock" on my time and commitment to have fun with them.
    • People do not have to be thoroughly versed in the nuances of game mechanics to play. It certainly helps, but they can get by without it. This makes bringing friends in much easier. Especially if they're casual. They can just log in and go.
    • I can log in for all of a dozen hours over the course of a few months and not worry about falling way behind on the curve by doing so. This affords me the luxury of doing other game/community-oriented things: writing, art, audio, website design, social participation, and so on, without concern that my characters will be screwed. I can have practically zero investment in gameplay, yet maintain a deep investment in the game. That keeps me paying the subscription, and I don't think there's anything out there that accomplishes this as well as City does.
    So. I'm not a casual player, no. But most of my play is very casual and I like it that way.
  9. Quote:
    Mostly i think casual is an attitude, the opposite of "no pain, no gain."
    ...close to my view. I'd say: style, attitude, approach. I don't think your diagnosis questions really hit the mark, though, because, as I see it...

    1. It's possible to approach the market casually and still make oodles of inf.
    2. It's possible to spend a lot of time logged in during the week and still be casual.
    3. It's possible to be casual and use Mids (though, yah, that's starting to push it).
    4. It's certainly possible to read the forums and be a casual player.
    5. Casual players may very well know what a shard is and want them. It's just going to take them a longer time to accumulate them.
    6. It's possible, and even likely, for a casual player to be a badger.
    7. It's definitely possible to be a casual PVPer, because I'm one of them.


    To me, casual is less about investment of time and more about investment of focus.

    For example, let's say you have two players. They're both into the game. They are both logged in at least a couple hours a night...

    Player 1 is in a large supergroup with established TF nights, has multiple 50s (most, if not all of them, function-oriented), has optimized builds for their characters (built in Mids), and likely knows many arcane details about game functionality. Their time in-game is spent on goal-oriented gaming. Could be doing TFs, could be solo-farming, could be PVPing, but whatever it is, they're getting something done.

    Player 2 is also in a supergroup, but it's small and laid back. People in the group log in, hang out, bat around what to do, and maybe end up doing some missions or something. This player might also have multiple 50s, but the characters have been accumulated over a longer stretch of time, aren't optimized (except maybe one or two), and weren't created to fill any particular niche or excel at a specific function. When logged in, Player 2 tends to do game activities that aren't very demanding: maybe collecting badges, idling at the market, or soloing at their own comfortable pace. If this person does a TF, it's probably spur of the moment, either with their friends or on a PUG. Basically, they're opportunists about that sort of thing.

    Both of these players invest a lot of time into the game, but, by my measure Player 2 is still very much a casual player, because they're not committing to the gameplay. In fact, Player 1 could spend less time in the game, and still be far more invested in it.

    Casual players either can't be that focused and goal-driven (for example, they're prone to frequent RL interruptions or they don't have the time/patience for it) and/or they just don't want to be (maybe they're deeply dedicated to another game, like EVE, and they play CoH as a low intensity change-of-pace). Whatever the case, the more coordination, (immediate) attention, and (unbroken) time investment any given game activity demands, the less likely a casual player is going to be a participant in it.

    In general, I'd say casual players are prone to solo (though not all soloists are casual) because they can just log in and do it, no matter their schedule. I'd say they're attracted to things like badge collecting and market play, because those activities don't require a lot of coordination and can be interrupted without issue. Their focus can be deep, but only for sporadic, short-lived periods (hence why they might have Mids, and might have a few tricked-out characters). If they visit the forums, they're probably strictly lurkers or they maintain a relatively shallow involvement and low profile.

    And, strange as the dynamic is... as this game very much accommodates a casual approach, casual players are probably apt to spend more time on it than hardcore gamers are. So, insofar as City is concerned, I don't think time investment is a very useful measure for identifying casual play.

    Oh, and as for PVP... I engage in it occasionally, when the mood strikes, either at an open PVP event or in the Arena with some friends. It factors into my character building not at all. Not even on my Stalker. Thus, I consider myself a casual PVPer.

    Anywho, thanks for starting this thread. Subject's been on my mind lately, so it's nice to be able to contribute to a dialogue about it.
  10. Quote:
    Originally Posted by DumpleBerry View Post
    Wiped out everything in a non-88 transaction last night. I have a few hundred in seed inf. left that I'm sowing again. I've fallen so far out of the top 88rs.

    But I'm back, now.

    Why did you not tell me about this project?
  11. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Fulmens View Post
    I don't know if Alchemical Silver is ever going to crash all the way. If you play SR, Force Fields, Ice Armor, Ninjitsu, etc. etc. and you slot with generics you're using about six Accuracies [one Alch Silver each] and about twelve Defenses [one Alch Silver each]. The demand is high and legitimate.
    All the more reason why I'd love to see it crash.

    It wouldn't stay that way, of course, but it'd be novel to see it knocked off its lofty perch for a bit.
  12. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Intrinsic View Post
    One more thing: if they start making lower-level TF's weekly strike target, we're going to be swimming in salvage for that level range.
    This is what I'm waiting for.

    I think once all the commons are flooded the way some of the high range ones are right now, this will no longer be an issue.

    Personally, I'd love to see Alchemical Silver crash.
  13. “Why do you RP as a millionaire?”

    A couple of answers on this one that I didn't see hit upon (apologies if I missed them)...

    1. Evolution. I have one character that's built up a modest fortune over the years. It's been part of her development and has often served as a RP bridge to other aspects of her background (by demonstrating that she has the same finesse with money that her Father and Uncle possess). In a written story, for an actual comic book character, this trait might be superfluous. But in interactive roleplay within a persistent world, it's added a great deal as part of her arc.

    2. Why not be a millionaire? I've a couple of characters for whom it wouldn't make much sense if they weren't at least comfortably wealthy, given their powers and abilities.

    'Course, "millionaire" ain't what it used ta be. None of my characters are in the Bruce Wayne/Tony Stark upper echelons of wealth. But I can certainly see the appeal of that as something different to roleplay, even if it'd translate as excessive in the context of a written story.

    ------

    "Where do you draw the line between game play mechanic and game lore?"

    Personally, I try to incorporate them as much as possible. There are, of course, game dynamics that simply don't, or shouldn't, translate, either because they wouldn't make any sense (repeating missions), or they're just silly (the aforementioned Dr. Brainstorm "explanation"). But I generally favor weaving game elements into the IC experience. 1. it can be creatively challenging to do so and 2. I think it contributes to immersion.

    That said, I recognize that opinions very greatly on this point--everyone has their own line and comfort level--so I try to be flexible on it in open social interaction and not refer to this stuff as if it's universally recognized and adopted.
  14. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr_Grumpums View Post
    I'm surprised that people are bringing up Concealment before the Presence pool.
    This isn't an either/or situation. The OP started a thread about Concealment. That doesn't stop you or anyone else starting a thread about Presence or the power pools in general.

    I think just about all the power pools could use some attention. I'd like to see them all expanded to 5 powers, for example. I'd like to see some sort of 'turbo boost' added to Flight. I'd like to see a 1st tier power added to Fighting that isn't an attack. I'd like to see powers like Whirlwind reworked into something that people might actually want to take. I'd like to see the various lackluster attacks that are available brought up to be on par with Air Superiority.

    But this thread here is about Concealment.

    I don't think anyone's saying the Concealment powers are useless. All that's being suggested is that the pool set could--and probably should--be freshened up a bit and tweaked to be a more attractive option. Stealth and Invisibility appear to be the favored targets for that.

    Why on Earth is this an issue with anyone?
  15. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Signpost View Post
    But of the set as a while, each power has it's own uses. You may diss Stealth all you like, but there's 3 whole other powers, and stealth is still useful regardless.
    Didn't say it wasn't useful. I'm saying I don't think it's as useful as it probably should be, given that it's a pool power (and thus demands at least the sacrifice of a power slot and a pool choice).

    Also, I'm not "dissing" Stealth. That's just silly. It's a power in a video game.

    Quote:
    I still think of all pool powers, that Fly needs to be looked into. Jetpacks use just as much end as unslotted hover, fly has a such a low cap that even after slotting jetpacks aren't really as slow compared, group fly messes with powers from teammates...
    Flight would be up there for me as well, for all the reasons you mention and more.

    Again... I think most of the pools could use some attention. Let me put it this way: I believe they're really showing their age.

    Personally, I would put Concealment at the top of the list, and that's why this thread caught my eye. I'd have Flight up there as well. If you'd like to start a thread about Flight, by all means, go right ahead. But I'm not talking about Flight here, I'm talking about Concealment, and how it could be improved. Because that's what the thread is about.
  16. Quote:
    Originally Posted by JD_Gumby View Post
    Not too shabby for a pool, and a power, that has "dampened" usefulness.
    Over the years, multiple options have been introduced that accomplish the same basic thing as the Stealth power. Clearly, that diminishes Stealth's niche, thereby dampening its usefulness.

    I believe, as a pool power choice, it should be more distinctive. As making it more distinctive would just be a benefit to the game, not really sure what the issue is?

    I'm also not sure how one can present:

    Quote:
    Not a fan of Invisibility or Phase Shift, by the way. They just don't seem all that useful to me...
    ...and...

    Quote:
    Seriously, Concealment is fine as it is
    ...in the same post, and not see the contradiction.

    Quote:
    it's just a case of "if you find other options more attractive, use them instead"
    No, to me, it's a case of presenting feedback and sharing ideas that could make the game better.

    I don't actually care much if the Concealment pool changes. I do use those other options when they make sense (and I find they often make more sense than using a power slot and a pool slot on Stealth... which I'd call a design flaw).

    I just think it'd be better for the game if Concealment (and other pool powers) got some developer attention. And I don't really see the point in attempting to squelch the expression of that.
  17. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
    Eh, basically just build each with specific tasks in mind rather than needing them to stack (which isn't very useful in PvE anyway and annoying in PvP).
    I agree. I particularly like your take on Invisibility.
  18. The Concealment pool competes with:

    • Stealth IOs.
    • Multiple Stealth Temporary Powers
    • The 'Grant Invisibility' Empowerment
    • Super Speed
    While I think all pools could use some attention at this point, I'd put Concealment at the top of the list. The game's evolution has significantly dampened its usefulness, much more so than any other pool.

    The penalty Stealth carries is a holdover from a different design mentality long since abandoned. It doesn't really have any meaningful impact on character performance (especially now that Swift is inherent). So, all it manages to be is... annoying. Many powers with a stealth component once had this penalty, but now it's been removed from them. I think the same should be done with Stealth.

    Invisibility is also not terribly attractive, having been diminished by the various stealth stacking options that have been introduced over the years. It would be nice if something were done to make this power stand out more (yah, I see the funny in that statement). Maybe give it a Sprint-esque speed increase? I dunno. But something. I'm sure people could come up with some neat ideas.

    I think Phase Shift is okay, even if it's but a shadow of its former glory. But what I'd love to see is a fifth power added to the pool that does a pulse-phase similar to what Illusionists and Master Illusionists have. Obviously, it'd have to be a lesser version, but it'd be an interesting option.

    Of course, there are still reasons to take the Concealment pool. I have it on 2 characters, myself. But the decision to adopt it was weighed heavily against the multiple alternatives available and the aggravating, seemingly pointless penalties involved (stacking, speed). I think more significant than the 2 characters who have it are the multiple characters who would have it, but don't, due to its shortcomings.

    The most prominent example would be a character concept that could've been represented as a Dual Pistols/Traps Corruptor... but that would've meant taking the Concealment pool. In order to avoid that, I went through the trouble of making the character a Pistols/Devices Blaster... and then went rogue.

    I don't think any pool should be quite that unattractive.

    I also don't think pool powers should be overshadowed by temp powers.

    And, finally, I think that these pools should be dynamic and attractive enough that they promote variety in character builds.

    It seems to me Concealment is falling way short in all of this.
  19. I'll have these rewards soon enough. I like 'em.

    But... I have to add my voice to the 'remote auction house access is too good' crowd.

    There should be other ways to obtain this ability. At the very least, a base item should be added that allows for auction house access. At the very least.

    I do very much appreciate the QoL improvement. But something of this significance should be obtainable, at least in part, by everyone. Especially when, as has been pointed out, the precedent has already been set with the workbench and the AE tablet.

    So. Yah. Base item would be neat. And while you're a it, how about a tailor object for bases as well?
  20. Put me in the Ironblade & Uberguy camp.

    I've said it before, I'll say it again: I think this arc is poorly designed. As an introduction to the Incarnate system, I think it's terrible. It's difficult to believe that this content was unveiled in the same issue as those two new 20-29 arcs. Night and day, there. This feels like a throw-back to issue 7 or 8.

    I think this arc needs a complete overhaul. A heavy-handed (and kinda dumb) band-aid ain't gonna do the trick.

    Pulling is a valid tactic in the game. Seems to me it would've been better to work with that (make his bifurcations go with him if he's pulled) than work against it. But I guess that would've required too much effort.

    This change doesn't make the encounter more difficult, it only makes it potentially more aggravating, and makes me (and likely others) more inclined to simply mow over it in the typical fashion that allegedly isn't supposed to work in this arc (and yet works just fine, in my experience).

    The arc is presented as a personal journey, it should've been designed as such. If people are saying "get a team", that is, to me, an indication of design failure. I understand it was probably a rush job, but c'mon. It's supposed to be the doorway to all this new shiny. It's shouldn't feel like the same ol' same old.

    This game already has a problem with limited options for dealing with an encounter. So, narrowing the options by which this particular encounter can be dealt with might not have been the smartest move. I'm just sayin'.
  21. Quote:
    Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack View Post
    The drop rate may be the same, but when I count the amount of enemies I defeated solo since I19 and get no drops, and compare that to the three I got on an ITF something doesn't seem right.

    I haven't been reading the forums lately so I'll assume my experiences are unique, if not I'll be willing to help out with chat logs.
    You're not alone. Something does seem peculiar about shard drops while soloing. For example, I can point to more than one person running several missions solo at x5 and not getting a single shard, but then running with one other person vs. less mobs and getting a few shards out of it.

    May just be a fickle RNG, but that there's really fickle. I think it's worth looking into, given past issues with droprates.

    For now, if you're after shards, I'd suggest at least duoing, just to be safe.

    --

    Re: Incarnate System

    It seems okay so far, but I'm still worried.

    I'd say the droprate feels just about right (as long as I'm teamed).

    I don't like the introduction arc. Pacing felt off and, when contrasted against the Praetorian content and tip missions, it seemed kinda pedestrian. Given its purpose, I'm of the mind that it really shouldn't feel like the same ol' same old at all, but it very much did to me.

    I've been given the impression that the arc was sort of a rush job, so some slack can be cut there, but I think it needs to be revisited and spruced up relatively soon. More Trapdoor (interesting encounter, could be designed better), less Minos (stock encounter and, considering what preceded it, ill-fitting as a finale).

    I think it did succeed in making plausible a sudden upswing of "Long-Path" Incarnates.

    I agree that unlocking the slot came off as a bit anticlimactic. I'd like to see something put in that more overtly marks the occasion. Could be anything, really. A temp power... a funky inspiration... but something. Were it up to me, I'd try to make it something fun but largely useless. A special Incarnate costume change emote, maybe?

    As for the future... I don't know. I'm afraid that, if this system demands a large time investment, I'm going to fall way behind. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing... unless a huge power gap develops between the Haves and the Have Nots. That could be problematic.

    This is a game that emphasizes and promotes having alts. The Incarnate system isn't quite running counter to that... yet. But I can easily see where it would, and that worries me.

    However, there isn't enough information for me to really form an opinion either way. I've been playing this game consistently for over 6 years and, in that time, I've seen the dev team do things that I've found to be completely kookoo-nuts-out-of-touch. On the other hand, I've also seen them implement things that I considered brilliant.

    It's been a mixed bag lately so, for now, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed.
  22. Okay, one more, then I'm out...

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
    Personally, I find the difficulty of the arc just about right for an intro to the Incarnate system.
    So... just like everything else in the game?

    Quote:
    The end game content is not going to be mindless mow-down-everything content.
    That's what this arc pretty much is. I'm sorry, I didn't find either "challenge" in this arc particularly interesting or novel. The rest of it was same ol' same old.

    Quote:
    I'm pretty sure it will be more of this, and then some.
    So... more of the same, just with more hitpoints.

    Quote:
    So if you don't like thinking about tactics
    I do.

    Quote:
    get impatient when the first thing you try fails
    I don't.

    Quote:
    aren't interested in using your inspiration tray wisely
    I am and I do.

    Quote:
    and get bored if your kill speed slows down for a few minutes
    If "kill speed" concerned me, my 6 year old main wouldn't be a Storm/Electirc Defender... >.>

    Quote:
    my guess is that the entire end game system as a whole is not going to be your cup of tea.
    I'm sorry, I don't fit your brush-off profile at all, and I still think this arc is pants.

    Maybe it's you who want things to be too easy?

    I gotta say, I'm pretty surprised that you and some other old-timers around here find this arc to be at all novel.

    Quote:
    People who think it was "poorly designed" I don't think understand the design target itself.
    Oh, please.

    Though, now that you mention it, I would like the "design target" for this whole system officially and explicitly outlined by PS. Because it's not saying to me what it's apparently saying to you.

    Quote:
    because its pretty clear to me that its hitting the mark in terms of its target audience, which is players that actually want this kind of advanced content.
    Guess again. I actually want that kind of content. If this is what's going to pass for it, I'm not impressed. There were more interesting things done in Praetoria arcs for lowbies.

    Quote:
    It could be much better of course. But by "better" I mean even more tricky and tactically complex to figure out. Not more streamlined and simplified for rapid soloing.
    ...getting warmer...

    Quote:
    By the way, I did in fact run right into that room the first time, and got my butt handed to me
    I didn't.

    Honoree was the only sticking point for me the first time through, and he was nothing new in that regard. I dealt with him as I've dealt with similar sticking points throughout the game's content at all levels, and moved on.

    The last mission was just laughable.

    This was not a tricky arc. It was not "tactically complex". Trapdoor was the only thing moderately interesting, and I even found that to be poorly executed.

    I'm glad you found the arc engaging. Really, I am. I didn't. And not for any of the reasons you've listed. So maybe you should entertain the idea that the audience this arc has failed to connect with is much broader than you're telling yourself.

    I believe this arc, and this content, could reach a much wider audience, without diluting its "design target". Moreover, I think it has to, or it's going to crash and burn... and get abandoned. And that's no good for anyone.
  23. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
    You mean besides Lady Grey saying it's going to be tough - as in warning you to bring friends? Nah. Nothing at all that might indicate a somewhat tougher fight.
    You get that kind of warning all over the place in this game. It very often doesn't mean squat. The impact of it has been diluted by over-use.

    So no, nothing at all that clearly indicates a tougher fight. Those warnings frequently don't indicate anything of the sort (certainly didn't in the last mission of this very arc).

    A clear indication would've been making it a difficult arc from the outset. A clear indication would've been not framing it as a personal story you're going at alone. A clear indication would've been a proper build-up, instead of relying entirely on the way-too-commonly-used 'you might wanna bring some friends' schtick.

    That's just a cop-out covering for shoddy design. Had the arc been done properly, Grey wouldn't have had to give a canned warning. You would've already known you were going into something hair-curling, 'cuz everything leading up to it wouldn't have been a cakewalk.

    The more I think about it, the more I think this should've been split into two arcs: a solo-friendly, personal journey introduction, followed by a blistering trial or mini-TF that 1. required a team of some sort and 2, required that everyone on the team completed part 1.

    Anywho, one of the points I've made (that's been glossed over yet again), is that it ain't just people who struggled with this arc that don't like it.

    The arc just does not seem to be making a good first impression. Given that it's the introduction to the Incarnate content, and given that PS has a fair bit invested in that system right now, I think it needs to be reworked.

    And I really must stop reading this thread! >.<

    *goes away 4REALZ this time*
  24. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
    ... agreeing with Geko here again.
    Except he's arguing points I didn't make. So... that really didn't get anyone anywhere.

    Quote:
    Plus, honestly, if you have issues with this
    My issues have nada to do with the "challenge" and "difficulty" of this arc. My issue is that I think the arc isn't all that different from a lot of existing "vintage" content... and just kinda stinks.

    And I don't understand why some people are, on the one hand, lauding it as a challenge and then, on the other, talking about how easy it was for them to do and how anyone should be able to do it. Can't eat your cake and have it too. Unless it's magic cake, I guess. But it's not.

    Anywho, I didn't find it a challenge and it's "difficulty", such as it was, was pedestrian.

    Quote:
    how are you going to deal with future Incarnate content
    At this point, I have zero interest in future incarnate content. This arc has contributed to that sentiment. Therein lies part of the problem.

    Quote:
    You don't need an "IO'd out," multi-billion-INF build.
    No, you don't.

    But the fact that a lot of people seem to think you do kinda speaks to the shoddy design of the arc, I'd say.

    Lemme approach this from another way...

    Mission 1: You're God.
    Mission 2: Standard fare. Maybe -- maybe -- you get tripped up a bit by Trapdoor... but this "challenge" isn't particularly hard to figure out... and once you have his number, he's easy to smish.
    Mission 3: Standard fare... until you reach the end of the map.

    Now. With everything up to this point, combined with the contact's delivery, an expectation has been established. Up to this point, there has been nothing about this arc that suggests you're dealing with anything other than the usual.

    Think that might have something to do with the problems some people are having with the arc? I kinda do.

    But what bothers me more than the people who get stuck? Are the people who didn't get stuck, but came away thinking, 'that wasn't fun. I don't really want to repeat that with X number of 50s.'

    That ain't good.

    BUT... whatever. I've put my 2 cents in. This arc was a huge disappointment for me, and not for the reasons Geko seems to think. I believe it needs to be rethought... but I'm fairly certain it's not going to be.

    I also think it'll probably be made easier. Which won't really help. Sure, it'll make the flow of it more consistent, but inconsistency is only one of the issues I see with this arc. Besides, there's merit to the argument that it shouldn't be particularly easy.

    Ultimately, what's scaring me is that this whole Incarnate system looks to me like it's on the failboat to disaster town. I was really hoping this arc was going to change my tune on that. It didn't. It just reaffirmed it.

    Thus ends my foray into these forums for another few months, at least.

    Have fun out there!