Hejtmane
-
Posts
691 -
Joined
-
Quote:Ok that explain some of what I am seeing. Thanks I only dabble in the market sales I make solid cash using it just nothing earth shattering because I do not flip or anything just not enough time to fully devote to the market let alone play enough to invest a ton of time in market trends.Originally Posted by Terror1
that stuff usually dont move fast.
I´v had a bunch of non 50 acc/dam and dam/end devastations on the ww for a week now below average sales. Will probably throw them back into a bin when i cba.
Much appreciated I will just wait and see what happens with my bids -
Is it me or is the hero side 41-46 range market slim pickings I can find a lot of LVL 50 stuff but if I started shopping in the 41-46 it was kind of bare in a lot of areas. Is there a way to revitalize this market or am I just crazy and it is there I am just missing something.
-
Quote:I guess the + precption IO from the rectified reticule set is your friend you can put it in Invincibility once you get that but that is a little late since you do not get it until 28 but once there it is low enough level you it works for explarOriginally Posted by Kioshi
The Arachnos/Carnie/longbow content is very heavy there... Meaning psi heavy and loads of -resist (kill all LB nullifiers first - brute rule #1 according to Smurphy lol)
Oh and there are so many arachnos missions that with no perception it's sooo fun to forget you're blinded (like you killed the whole mob but you're still blinded) and rush and aggro 2 spawns lol. I know I did it a lot on my fragile dominator on 8 man teams. -
Quote:I think AAO is what will take a hit that is what sets the set apart and gives us some crazy damage output along with the recharge. If I had to guess I thinking they will reduced the damage buff cap from 10 to about 8. With 10 in range you get somewhere around 81% damage buff throw in IO's I know I get like 20% I am hitting 100% damage buff from IO +AAO. If we drop it to 8 we go from 81% to 67% not sure if that is enough of a decline I am not the super math gurus of the form. 7 would be 60% and 6 would be around 53% on the damage buff.Originally Posted by Frosticus
If you are a tru warrior and never use inspirations while leveling up then all the secondaries are probably better than shields. If you aren't afraid to use the occassional inspiration than shields levels as well as anything*
*Haven't leveled an invuln or an energy aura toon
Some of the other secondaries can be built for more survivability. So if your goal is to conduct extreme survivability tests than a set like invuln can surpass it.
Or course you have to wonder if the amount that some of the other secondaries can be built to out-survive shields is equitable to the amount that shields can out damage/speed compared to them? The answer is a resounding no.
Shields can eclipse ever other set in what actually matters in the game and the only way to progress a character - Defeats.
Not really looking forward to when it gets the EM treatment as I enjoy my bs/shield, but...it has to be coming.
Like I said my guess is we will drop from 10 to 8 targets for damage buff -
Quote:I may have to just work on my katana/wp sitting at 25Originally Posted by Werner
Just pretend Iggy is Haxxorz. It's what I do so that I can sleep at night.
I tried two do 2 rwz pulls at once with my fire/sd I need to try since I rebuilt him some and see if I can do it I been close a couple times -
MY db/eia is doing fine if you want pure damage fire always works as well
lots of options -
Quote:Just eyeballing your build you are not going to have enough recharge with your attacks you may want to work incinerate in there and push maneuvers out further or go CJ. your attack chain will be smoother that wayOriginally Posted by Deliverance_
Thanks for the help Werner, I'll probably not use sets at all leveling up other than the odd one here or there if i can get them cheaply, so i took your build and messed around in mids to try and come up with something using just plain IO's until i can be bothered farming inf, being away from the game for so long makes everything new and shiny so leveling this new FM/SD and just plain having fun is first on the to do list.
I see you didn't take greater fire sword, why is that? I struggle at 23 so far without an extra attack and i cant see shield charge helping too much as it's cooldown is quite long, perhaps i'm missing out by not having scorch? It's damage seems crappy for a whole power pick though.
I seem to have been given a bunch of respecs with these new veteran rewards too so i guess i can experiment a little once the toon is a bit higher.
Not sure if this will work for leveling, but here's what i came up with (not sure what epic pool i'll take tbh.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.621
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Scotsmania: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Fire Sword -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(3), Dmg-I(3), Dmg-I(7), EndRdx-I(15), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 1: Deflection -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(5), DefBuff-I(5), DefBuff-I(7), ResDam-I(15), ResDam-I(29)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(9), DefBuff-I(9), DefBuff-I(23)
Level 4: Cremate -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(13), Dmg-I(13), Dmg-I(27), EndRdx-I(29), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 6: True Grit -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(11), ResDam-I(17), Heal-I(17), Heal-I(23), Heal-I(46)
Level 8: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 10: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(40), DefBuff-I(43)
Level 14: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(46), Heal-I(48)
Level 16: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Fire Sword Circle -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(19), Dmg-I(19), Dmg-I(25), EndRdx-I(25), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(21), EndMod-I(21), EndMod(50)
Level 22: Phalanx Fighting -- DefBuff-I(A)
Level 24: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Tough -- EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(42), ResDam-I(42), ResDam-I(42), Empty(43)
Level 28: Weave -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(31), DefBuff-I(33), DefBuff-I(33), Empty(50)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(33), DefBuff-I(34), DefBuff-I(34)
Level 32: Greater Fire Sword -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(34), Dmg-I(37), Dmg-I(40), EndRdx-I(40), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(36), Dmg-I(36), Dmg-I(36), EndRdx-I(37), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 38: Tactics -- EndRdx-I(A), ToHit-I(39), ToHit-I(39), ToHit-I(39)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(46), Empty(48)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(45), EndMod-I(45), Heal-I(45), Heal-I(50)
Level 47: [Empty] -- Empty(A)
Level 49: [Empty] -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 2: Ninja Run
The only way you will be able to soft cap shields is with IO's but that comes later for you -
Here is another build I came up with which soft caps you can play around with
Code:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1408;694;1388;HEX;| |78DA9D93D952134114867B321326FB4288AC21CA1E1206B8C3A5CA2A45ABB088468| |25C281087D084915488990009573E805BB95EF92096AFE3F2108AE35926A942EF9C| |4AFE6FE6F47FBACFE9AECEB79643423CBB2E94C8CDAA69DBA562B961D6EBB2E1CD9| |B15AB2C7421C4602756CACBAA94C6B2D938E0D774776459EEC99A2D8DE2117EADC9| |BDAA6C493BBE52DB970D596B1A9D9740E1F0B06A14EB52EE86E8F5B6D5AC49DB0EB| |B1F95FDA655ABC4E96BA5766CD9D68E55B59AEDDE5B75AB6CDCA89AA7B29437EDA6| |6CB407A0B40CFC9F628DF4385EF11890139E5DC60E412B3324A127EB116251E4314| |BA12C5524151AE923F86284F904A1A1BB36985D79089816BE4784C026638B10DA66| |94083664A99CA5A9C7B46EE484D122C4DA8C534213EC5EB6ABDEAF505F4AF47E23F| |4FD607C271C814F778BD1AF0134555CF88B034B2E1F50FD43454201D2FC9CA9F8B3| |B4E810630C46823CE2097268E41CC6C1106683083BF0881E884479EF4494223A44E| |21CF1C4EF28B805BD1BB4F02897E10343820DDEC41B0F8DBC65BC235C7CCFF8C0F8| |485883ACA4BB50728EAAB90BA17E77A2FE00CD7D29C2083382845C88301725B4206| |B90CED1F10EFEA4B9C77F31CE18BF09130E030F2F27EE43D6B0DBD5B08FBA9AF013| |E646A9987B6048B986D499C023724716196D30A4DD034BEF5168AA4298DE67588C2| |784CC01611DB2C6785A6D8C7BCC7057B3DCE32C773CCBCD9D807D929B53275F5303| |53AF182F09991704057C33EE41CED0B1A910C9BAF5677157532237430DE626081A1| |80CF796181A85E67907E6793F167542117C0BEC5316CEEDC088D6BD9DF0C34557FF| |8914B4EE1D130A45D25AF7763AFE58F72EFDEFF339D459D2BF16005D4729A06CA06| |CA26CA16CA398283B286514E74B373BBA84755D46B98272152509F589E7E8D4F11E| |055142286194084A14258692401942F984E2FC0131B9FA10| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
-
Quote:Physical Perfection I understand keeping toof and SS that is why I asked let me redo it with TOF and see if I can help the build out look at my Siphon life build with the HO's it does capped acc/dmg close to heal and still gives you recharge and end discountOriginally Posted by UnicyclePeon
Did you mean to post a build? I didn't see it.
Anyway, to me Super Speed is critical to the concept of the character. I would drop every power before I dropped it. She is supposed to be a speedster who uses dark magics to accomplish it. So, Super Speed is essential. Plus it is fun.
Also, I hate powers like Conserve Power. I never remember to click them. I have enough challenge just remembering to click Hasten (since I have to have Practiced Brawler on auto).
What do you mean by "PP"?
Also, for my purple, its not the proc, its a dam/rech. I specifically put it in Siphon Life because I wanted the frankenslotting numbers to be good so that it was useful simply as a normal attack, but with decent healing also.
Thanks,
Lewis -
What are you trying to do with the build
Tell you the truth I dropped TOF on my dm/sr and never looked back; I know some swear by it but I like to do damage
I see a lot of ways to improve the build just trying to fond out what you are trying to do with it 4 slotting CJ is wasting slots unless you are going for specific Io set bonuses which you where not in your build
Even with consumption which has a long recharge you may run into endurance problems with the build
Ok a minor change in dropping tof I kept SS but it reality I done this before even nija run on my /srs I used sprint + quickness + swift and a couple IO speed buffs and did just fine with ninja run it is even easier but I left SS in and here is a buidl I came up with just by dropping tof only and shifting slots around I soft capped you increased your endurance + reg +Hp and your + rech and added Conserve power if you want you could drop Dark consumption and fit CP and PP instead as an option and drop a reg tissue in the slot for even more and you are better off putting you purple proc in SP or Smite since those attacks in the chain get cycled more often
Just some ideas -
All three are good depending on what you want to do with the sets
If you want one that can farm decent and solo av's i say fire if you want purely farming elec/sd is pretty darn spiffy with the LR +FB and SC + FB
If you want pure ST and do not want to have to fit aidself then DM/SD rocks
any of the 3 sets perform well it just depends on what you are looking to do -
Quote:Chimera is buggy period I have defeated him more than once where he had his sword out the entire time I have also beat him while even in melee range and I mean right next to him and he never put the bow away he is just flat out brokenOriginally Posted by Frosticus
What's stopping him from closing is his preference for ranged (which is fine) and his summoned demons (also fine).
What's preventing him from using his melee attacks while being melee'd himself is the range disparity of player powers and npc powers introduced not too long ago. If used to maximum effect the only attacks he'd be using with his axe are whirling and cleave. He doesn't have cleave so limiting him to just whirling is a huge decline to how potent he is designed to be against melee using characters.*
* He is supposed to use beheader, chop, gash, pendulum, and whirling during a melee encounter.
The limitation of the AI (no argument from me about it being retarded) makes this problem standout, but it is the range disparity that is the actual problem.
In fact a resourceful scrapper using weapons mastery- webnade can trivialize many AV encounters simply because for a well built scrapper surviving their ranged output isn't a challenge at all and they won't be able to use melee while you can. So you gain all the advantages of being a melee toon such as mez protection, survivability, and very high damage, but none of the risks designed to accompany it.
In this case it was using an npc to axe-block him (hehe) and I suppose it is easy enough to pin on the lack of AI. But what about a webnading scrapper vs the many AV's that have an immob hole? I don't think you can really blame the AI in that situation and yet the result is exactly the same. You are using melee attacks and the NPC can not due to the range disparity. You would literally be standing there punching him in the face and he can't punch you back.
An excellent example would be Chimera. His katana is pretty deadly for many melee range characters due to the -def, inherent acc, and high damage. Whereas his bow attacks render him one of the least threatening AV's in the game when taken from range.
*edit: this isn't just AV's either you can do it to pretty much any NPC with just webnade. Like freak tanks for instance - dangerous in melee, kittens from range. -
Quote:He did not abandoned all attacks he was still hitting me and he still used his axe attacks just much less then he would if I was 5' vs 7' he tend to rely on his ranged attacks more often which still do damage and still carried risk I had a couple close calls in the battle.Originally Posted by Frosticus
My comment regarding immobilization was not specific to infernal. Based on the comments you have put up in this thread and mine I'd say we are saying the same thing.
Relying on a glitch in the AI to defeat something is synonymous with saying you can't defeat it without the glitch.
Like the npc's that used to do /em walllean and not fight back at all. I think if you encountered an AV (infernal for the purposes of this conversation) doing that and beat him down everyone would agree that was not working as intended.
In this case we have 5ft vs 7ft and he isn't even trying to use melee despite being melee'd himself. To me it is as obvious as a wallleaning npc.
In this case I'm not seeing a huge difference between using this hole in the programming and putting him in an AE mission and setting yourself to invincible.
This was not hey the guy is not fighting back look here free attack on the idiot NPC. This was not one of those bugs like Hellions leaning against the wall and they never attack and just stand there like a punching bag (I have actually bugged than more than once).
I never expected this to turn into this but it is pretty funny -
Quote:I am not sure it is not something I have noticed in the past because i always like to get up in the AV's and try to pack guys in around me the way they gathered this time just worked out and I noticed it so when I moved in and tried to get tighter he whipped out the axe attacks when I re-positioned his axe attacks slow way down. So I am not sure if it is an AI issue or a melee range issue.Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
This reminds me of something I noticed a while ago, while watching someones av soloing vids.
Are av's still on the 5' mellee range? The reason I ask is because in the video I watched, the guy was fighting an av that probably favored ranged, and seemed to be attacking at the edge of his 7' range and the av was only using ranged attacks against him. Makes me wonder if av's ever got the 7' range increase players did.
If I remember correct some master mind pets do this as well get locked in on their ranged attack and forget their melee attacks.
Very good question and one I have not even a clue on how to test and verify if it is AI or the range of the attacks or a combo of the two. -
Quote:I call it leveraging and something I was unaware of until this particular fight when i noticed it and moved around and found it to be the case.Originally Posted by Silverado
Cheating.
But ok I cheated yay me still ( making fun of myself here) -
http://s886.photobucket.com/albums/a...8-14-41-50.jpg
http://s886.photobucket.com/albums/a...8-14-41-41.jpg
http://s886.photobucket.com/albums/a...8-14-21-33.jpg
Yea took a while with 50% fire resistance from that guy makes for a long battle
No temps or insp I also learn something this fight if you keep his minions in front of you and between him and you leverage the 7' length he uses less axe attacks so you get hit more with BOF and his fire blast
A little tip for anyone fighting him
I weeded all out but a group of minions; I could not get my AAO fully saturated they would just not herd up tight enough so I leveraged the 4-6 I could
I failed this a few times in the past, I was not planning it I was farming the bemounth for drops and I was irked I had not gotten him yet so I figured what the hay and gave it a shot -
You can also stick a kismet +6% to hit in the power
Yea take like love it just think about it it is like having an extra +3% defense IO -
Quote:Originally Posted by BlackBellatrix
I can finally see my costume! Yay!
... That is all.
I may have to check it out, the old one would trigger a migraine so I never used it; yea I know weird but it did -
Quote:You kill your game that way period end of story there is a point of no return on things like that it is a hard balance for the devs, I also ask because I made a toon good enough to solo x8 missions not just AE missions but regular missions that any one that can do this is basically a farmer.Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
I posted over here in regards to this :: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...04#post2767204
It's pretty clear that the Exploiters have more man-hours to putting into finding exploits than the DEVs have to stop them.
Cutting XP doesn't solve the problem - just the leveling problem.
Based on your comment here ::
I can see why you are defending "ticket farming" and the exploits related to that.
Well, "ticket farming" is exploiting the system, so if you really want to stop the exploits then it should be done across the board.
To stop "ticket farming" from influencing the rest of the game, ticket sales of all non-AE related items needs to be stopped. This means that tickets could only be used to purchase unlockables and badges.
I'm all for that.
Now back to the "farming" issue.
I am against "farming". You can't separate good farming from bad farming; there is just farming. Farming just for salvage, enhancements, or recipes isn't any better than farming for xp and most of the time level 50 farming involves xp farming for lower level characters.
Farming is an exploit issue that has plagued this game probably from he very beginning (it was around in issue 1!)
I would like to see a system implemented that curbs all rewards for missions repeated during a 24 hour period. Much like the merit system for taskforces, this would "convince" players to run varied missions rather than allowing exploiters to find "certain" missions and run them ad naseum.
Diminishing returns seemed to be the Taskforce merit solution.
I'd be all for seeing the first run being at 100% rewards (all rewards), second 50% rewards, more times gain 25% rewards. This would be for XP and all "drops".
I'd make this regardless of who the mission holder was. If a player (account, not character) runs the same mission more than once then this system would kick in.
I'm not trying to take away anyone's right to "get stuck in a time loop" and run the same mission over and over again if that is REALLY what they enjoy doing in the game - but I am against the excessive rewards that the exploiters that do this gain.
And yes. Farmers are exploiting the game. Missions are not "intended" to be run repeatedly for some increased gain. If you are doing something that "is not intended" and/or to yield "excessive gains" then you are exploiting the game. Since the sole reason that farmers are farming is for the gains and and missions are not "intended" to be run multiple times in succession - it seems pretty obvious that farmers are exploiters - pretty much the first and foremost exploiters of the game.
Yea go ahead and nuke the rest of the game and see what happens; like i said the devs have this fine line between people who can farm and do farm. They have to keep it within a reasonable range but at the same time if they try to whack it all the way down it just destroys the game and there is nothing left.
I say go ahead and just nuke it all please just do it; because I love to see the fallout over that. Then again I think the dev team is smarter than that and I am not worried about them doing something that drastic.
If you want to help nerf leveling kill the SK and all that stuff that be just as effective and see what happens yea I bet you like to keep that though -
Quote:Sure is a lot of name calling because you do not agree with the way people play the game. I mean it is just a game. In fact if I want a good story and plot line I read a book. I agree there are some lazy people but they generally do not farm they sit at the door and milk. Go ahead with your superiority I play the game the best way by reading all the stories. Good for you I am glad you like the stories and the plots.Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
This is what the AE IS MEANT TO BE: NEW STUFF! Not farms! But shortsighted, intellectually lazy folks have decided to just make maps where they kill stuff for absolutely no reason other than the rewards.
Then again you also call them shortsighted for going after rewards; when in fact you are showing you overall shortsightedness of people. You realize some people are goal oriented driven by getting results; a bottom line. Rewards are a result oriented goal a bottom line that you fail to recognize.
So before you go off on you half cocked intellectually bankrupt, name calling rant that is flawed; just maybe stick to what needs to be talked about.
You could have simply stated you do not like farming and you hate how all the farm maps clog up the system hiding good story and this is my suggestion. Nope you had to try an insult them instead. -
Quote:It is the speed that you get them at for example I have a wolf hunt I am set for +8 bosses and I rottae between +1 and 0's because it is usally just me or me getting a linked toon to a lvl range I care to play (realize I have a build that can handle harder but that slows me down). Speed is the name of the game for instance I have a wolf hunt it is nothing but wolfs on the map. I can do the map with no outside buffs hit my ticket cap and leave with less then half the map left not cleared. Now I added an ally a Kin he gives me speed boost oh and he has Fulcrum Shift now I got two or three of them running around guess what I hit damage cap more often and my attacks recycle faster. Those I made mad influence and tickets drops.Originally Posted by PracticallyGod
I've tried several missions people were claiming they were getting some mass inf from, though when I played them they just seemed normal rewards.
So back to farming PI only; I rotated between the two for fun and chance for purple drops and I do not farm only that gets boring as well. Yet I am not going to pretend that I do not farm in some manner because I would be lying. -
Quote:ED I agreed it needed to happen I was not that upset over the nerf; what made most players mad about was the way Statesman handled the issue and tried to slip it in under the cover of night with out saying anything. Then to follow it up with the the global reduction and he mishandled that as well both where PR disasters not because of the nerfs but the way it happened and how Statesman handled the change.Originally Posted by EvilDeathBee
I might vote for Issue 4.
Most of the Architect's users may not have been using it for what it was intended for, but at least they were using it. The Arena has been under-utilized since it began.
More importantly, if the Architect was poorly implemented, that is even more true of PvP. If they had held off on implementing PvP until issue 6 instead of trying to jumpstart it early the way they did, the changes that eventually came in Issue 13 might not have been necessary.
Of course, hindsight is 20/20. In retrospect, there are quite a few Issues that could have been vastly improved on: the contact system in the Shadow Shard, the way ED was handled, Base rent and the prestige system, and so on.
I have to agree I4 was badly done and still is badly broken the most boring pvp I have ever tried to play. So I do not even attempt to be a mediocre pvp player like I was in DAOC -
Quote:Part of the problem is they took a sledge hammer where a scalpel would have worked. The allies that where causing the problems where allies flagged as AV's in most of the farm missions non AV's tend to die a lot easier so a middle ground would be scaling xp loss by if the ally is flagged Boss, LT AV etc and then by the #'s as wellOriginally Posted by Lohenien
The devs just simply lack the resources to make AE 'reasonable'. By reasonable I mean, the ability to prevent exploits preemptively. Such a thing would be obtained by having a group of players on the inside so to speak, that are good at making exploits. Those players find new exploits ASAP and the devs can patch things up.
Granted this would have only worked to their PR benefit during the design of AE and could have prevented alot of the after issue nerfs. It would fail now because reworking the system after the fact doesn't quit work as well due to a volatile player base and comes off as harsh nerfs.
By hiring professional magic players, wizards of the coast was able to get a player's perspective on potentially exploitative cards during development. This works there because magic is always in development, here AE has been developed and released already.
The best thing they could do is try and find some medium ground to stand on as opposed to simply nerfing things ASAP ( some things such as the MM exploit need to be an ASAP no middle ground decision however ) .
For example the latest issue - excessive allies in missions. Simply nerfing all allies is a horrible idea, the devs know this and have stated as much. What middle ground can be found ? I wouldn't worry about catering to the whiny masses of players that want the fastest, easiest exploit possible - a role which alot of the people that come here and complain fit into perfectly. No, instead the devs need to decide what amount of allies with what functionality is actually 'acceptable and how to handle cases that go beyond that level. This is all well and good , but may not be possible code wise, or just not quick and easy.
On' the players side of things, people need to realize that yes, certain things may get nailed in the cross fire for the time being but also that hot fixes are not intended as a permanent solution.
The lack of foresight and the lack of malicious minded devs is something the team has a hard time compensating for. I rather doubt many of us here could outwit a group of tens of thousands of players so easily either. -
The Red and Black is fast and gives 14 merits
This may help to
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Hero_Merit_Rewards -
Quote:I think we have a winnerOriginally Posted by Another_Fan
Risk vs Reward was always a smoke screen, just a phrase that people assigned meaning to when there was none inherent in it. Merits demonstrate they have a Reward/Time envelope, not a Risk/Reward envelope and are perfectly willing to hammer down on anyone that gets clever with how they do things, whats more they don't particularly care about the collateral damage that occurs.