Graver

Well, it's about time you stpped being a bum and got one of these

Great wiork on DB in her jammies, there. The scales turned out good... especialy the pattern on her belly. She looks proper lizardy now

Well, I figure I'm far enough along to call for another update. Just a few more nights of work and it will be done And keep yer paints on there, Hems... it's almost your turn.

Either way, here's the progress so far...

First off, I'm glad you're happy with it so far TA... you're really the one that counts and if your digging it, then I'm digging it... and there's a lota digging going on which is probably making a really big whole. Watch your step.

Secondly...
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*Adds Graver to collabo/art trade list*

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I am so holding you to that, Mr. Kindred! We will need to work something out... *glances over at the mountain of work yet to be done* someday when I'm not so busy... someday...

Third, to all who played *glances to the studio audience who then chant "Guess! What! That! Sketch! Is!" followed roaring applause fallows as peppy upbeat intro music plays* I would have to say you're all right. I didn't ask you to make my sense of it... you all made your own sense of it, and that's a good thing... but watch out for the C.I.A. They don't like for people to make there own sense (or cents, what ever, it's all the same). That is also the first tie I've ever shown anyone one of my idea sketches... mostly because it's only a "language" that makes sense to me, but it helps me get the idea on paper and structured in my head, and that's what counts. If I need to send a concept sketch to a client, then it'll be something a lot more tooled then that... something a lot closer to the finished pencils on this one. I just figured I'd show my initial starting point


Oh, and sorry, Star, you're a bit off on this one. For TA's pieces, I am using 14"x11" multimedia board treated with an epoxy resin. It has a bit more absorbency then clayboard so I don't have to wait hours for the water to evaporate for the really wet techniques but doesn't suck the pigment too far down too fast so I still have time to push the paint around for a bit and can still scrape and sand it off for certain effects.

But you were close

As for the question about what those winged galls in the background are... well, valkyries, angels, multiple instances of Nike... it's all good. My initial thoughts on them were in terms of valkyries, though they tended to be traditionally depicted, when in the air, as ridding winged horses. This is not quite in line with how valkyries were in the poems and myths about them, but then when is art ever in line with the myth? (if they were going to ride anything, it would be wolves). Either way, one thing that spawned the flying horses, and the aspect I was looking at with them is where they were said to look down upon the battle field to decide who will live and who will die and then escort the souls of the bravest warriors that were chosen to die off to Valhalla. In such a role, they often seemed to be attributed to being the ravens that would descend upon the battle field to feast upon the dead.

So, I didn't want to do flying horses or wolves (though flying wolves does seem intriguing) which left the raven aspect and in combining the raven aspect with the warrior woman aspect, well, that left the standard winged woman, which works just fine (their wings are going to be black). This also opened up the angel angle (hehehe).

While winged men being angels is another invention of the art world (never mind the modern idea of winged women being angels) it works quite well for this piece helping with the link that shows Thors Assassin to be an agent of higher powers in a way that's a lot stronger for people today.

So, valkyrie or angel it's really all the same thing when you boil it down. For this piece they serve the same function... hell, they could be multiple instances of Nike and it would still work. The meaning of the winged warrior archetype is pretty much ingrained into our heads no matter the name you call it by.

Oh, and Pep, I don't think those are eyes hanging off of his staff... I don't think TA's gone that far in hunting his artists . Just wait, you'll see more.

And Rox, I'm fine with you inking the penciled work if TA is as well (since it is his piece after all). If he's cool with it, ink away... I'd love to see what you can do with it.

More to come shortly...

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Working on the background now

Since this is, I think, usually my weakest part comments would be very welcome.

Thank you.

boomtown rough

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Wow, I'd say you're doing just fine with it so far... it's a great city scape and very very boomtown! I wouldn't know who well it works for the piece untill I can actualy see TA with the background... but so far, I'd say your doing great!

That turned out quite nice there... doubly so for your first attempt with markers. I do belive your going to do well with the markers. It alsmost has a nice retro feel to it, like a psycho vacume add from the latter half of the 60's or some such.

As for your problems with the marker on bristol... don't know what to say. I'm not all that expereanced with markers... i do know that they make paper / board esspecialy for marker, but it's probably fairly pricy. Have you tried the clayboard with markers?

Well, since someone accused me of slacking off *narrows eyes at Roxstar* I figured I needed to update y'all on my work... and I guess it has been a while since anything serious of mine has gotten posted. That and looking back on GillBates' Countess Ivy piece, beyond it being a knock ya to th' floor great piece, one thing I truly enjoyed was seeing the progression of the work. So... not only to prove I is no slacker, but to also possibly entertain and / or amuse with the progression of a piece, I give you, all the major steps of my work on Thors Assassin up to what I just finished a few minutes ago.

Concept Sketch This is the Initial sketch that I went with for the idea for the piece. I double dawg dare ya to make sense of it... bet ya can't

TA Pose This is the initial pose that was chosen of the three that had came about for this piece. it fit the idea of Thors Assassin being the conduit for higher powers the best (as that's the angle that I really wanted to play up in this piece... it hasn't been done yet to my knowledge so it seems like ripe ground)


TA: Finished Pencils Here, the end result of a lot of madness and cursing.

TA: Paint 1 And here is where I stop for the night. I am quite pleased with how his leg armor turned out, though I know I'm going to have to darken it to get it to match the rest of his armor... I just don't want to lose some of that cool shine.

So, ya... that's that... I gotta go to bed. But, let it be known, I am no slacker!

Bed...

Heh, levin' the bars off is what I figured ya'd do... I prolly would'a done something similar as there have been many a time I found my plans for something would only obscure something else that I had worked on so hard to get it just right... I'd just end up fudging things a bit so the really cool part isn't covered up.

Oh, and yup, she's a Katana/something-but-gawd-if-I-know-what scrapper.

Hey, it's looking great so far (though I have to ask... is he gonna be holding a lollipop too? Morbid curiosity...) So far it's a pretty bang up job on ol' TA... and I really kind of like the legs... don't know what your issue with them is.

I wouldn't sweat the time frame too much, quality work takes time... in our instant gratification society where (for reasons that are beyond me) every second seems to count for something, it's too easy to forget that good things are worth waiting for. That and trying to get some art done plus work, plus school, plus family, yer doing great! Hell, I've been having a hard time getting things out in a reasonable amount of time and all I have to worry about is just a minor soul sucking job and an internship (though I finally took the final leap and turned in my 2 weeks... I'll probably need that job back in a couple of months, but, oh for those few months, it will be heaven!)

I'm glad your following your newly rekindled passion. Good luck in that. It's hard finding that things that truly lights a fire under your [lower back-side commonly referred to as a donkey], but when you find it, you hold on to it!

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I hate you.

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Everybody does...

*turns on some Johnny Cash and takes a shot of whisky while a single tear rolls down his cheek*

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Anyway, I did get back into it last night, and made this.
Can you guess who it is? No fair looking at the pic name. It's just a rough sketch, so I may fix a few problems (like the top of second bar from the left looks bent) that I now see in it later.

I hope whoever it is, likes it. Now you can add "I dance" to your avatar.

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*raises hand far above head and dances around to get Pep's attention* O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O... I know who it is, I know who it is... it's Thors Assassin! Right? But... but why in th' hell did you make him look all like HemilyTiger?

It's looking quite good so far. Got a question though, are ya gonna leave the bars closest to the viewer off so as not to obstruct TA who looks like Hem's or put them on latter? Just curious on which way you is gonna go. Great work so far... and nice perspective work too

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The Mighty Electron! As seen in Foo's thread of ultimate awesomeness.

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*sigh*

Now, what did I tell you about forearms? It's a great drawing and all, but her forearms came out looking like she had some massively poofy metal like cuffs covering her forearms...

But, seriously, ya it's a right good drawing there... and the little.. um... Foo guy (?) that she's stepping on is a great touch (love his eyes!). I also rather enjoy the very subtle twist that you gave her chest and abdomen... it gives her a touch more life then if her torso was completely strait and ridged. That and it helps to just that leg stepping on the foo doll forwards quite nicely. Great job

I'd have to say that weakest part of this piece would be the colors. Since the background is about the same purple that Electron is, it pulls her back into it. At the same time, since the Foo Doll Guy has a lot of warm color in him that does not appear any where else in the picture (especially that yellow curl) it makes him stand out a lot and pulls him out of the background. The color almost makes him the focal point. Possibly a duller purple for the background would have worked better... though I don't think a duller purple crayon is made . Perhaps a little bit of yellow worked into the background would work wonders... and help to spread some of the foo dolls color throughout the rest of the work. A yellowish background might have really made things pop... eh, something to think about for your next one maybe.

Still, I do really like this one... the hard shines you got on the metal are quite nice... and... well, it just really amuses me. It looks like you managed to out much fooness in that character

Well, I'd have to say your off to a pretty good start here. As lips go, you did a right nice job on Statesman's lips (it's generally not a good idea to fully outline the lips, they are not a separate thing glued onto the face... they are the slightly differently colored top terminating points of the flesh that covers the teeth and mouth). You major weakness that I can see at this point in time is your eyes.

Atomic Knight posted a nice tutorial on the eyes somewhere... but can't remember where and I'm too lazy to find it, sorry. But one things that you can do that would really improve them is simply adding a shine bubble that partially covers the pupil and the iris. That will help to counter the intense soul searing stair that your eyes currently have with such naked pupils.

Still, yer off to an excellent start here!

Damn, crazy good work! It's so easy to make a bad P-M, but your hard work really payed off there, _AzA_!

Definitely have to agree with Poo about the grids. The main failing of using tracing as a tool for learning is that it does not lend it's self to the first step in learning to draw... seeing. With tracing, your just doing. You have to learn to see, and by this I mean break down, analyze, and understand what it is that you are seeing. Using a grid is just another tool to help break down what your seeing into easier to digest chunks... it simplifies things, keeps you from getting overwhelmed by all the "stuff' that your eyes might be seeing, and also helps to break things apart so that they are no longer their recognizable named forms but just shape instead. Grayscaling an image has the same result as it removes the extra chaos of hue leaving only value to show the shape of things.

To any and all who use or would like to use tracing as a learning tool, I'd highly recommend the grid method instead... or, hell, go for broke and do a grid on a grayscaled image. I promise you will learn a LOT more in one drawing then you ever could through tracing.

And, as has been pointed out to the point of grinding the horse into nice manageable patties ready for a bun (mmmMMmm hose BURGER!), if your really serious about honing your art skills, study the reality of things. Distortion and stylizing things due to a lack of being able to represent said thing any other way is a major limitation and usually only ends up showing your lack of control... your style will control you. Learning how something really is will allow you to be able to chose exactly how you distort it for maximum effect... you will be in control of your style so to speak.

aaaaand... I'm done babbling again.

Hey, great job there Sartori! And now would be a great time to start honing those post production skills. you obviously have a good grasp of the whole poser thing... take it up a notch. And PSP woud work just fine for post editing. No point in spending several hundred bucks untill you definitly know you need to. For nw, crack open PSP and I'd say give what DJ sugested a shot. I'd love to see the piece after a bit of editing!

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If you want a reference to a limb or other body part for its anatomical structure, go no further than this web page.

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Ick. The muscle pictures always make me gag *shudders*

They are amazingly good, but eeks

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hey, it really helps ta know what's goin' on beneath th' skin if you ever want to represent the skin appropriately. This kind of goes back to the tracing thing. Tracing will teach you how to do one thing in one way without ever knowing why it looks that way. The first stage of learning art (beyond simple motor skills) is learning to see things. Once you learn to see, then you have to take the next step and know things. Seeing the way something is, is one thing, but knowing why it looks that way will enable you to not only accurately represent it, but to also change it convincingly... and also to be better equipped to spot problems with your work and be able to correct them.

Just as an illustration, here is someone who has no clue what's going on beneath the skin, and here's the work of someone who spent years delving into burial catacombs to examine the bodies and find out what's really going on beneath the skin. I think the difference should be obvious.

To the OP, you chose well, my friend. All you will get out of tracing in the long run is possibly some motor skills and some idea of line, that's about it. If you rely strictly on it to teach you how to draw the figure, as DJ stated, you'll pick up all their bad habits without ever knowing... and beyond that, you'll only ever be able to draw that facial expression or leg in that one position. Need to turn it just a touch to the left? Good luck because you won't know how. You'll just be a one trick pony. You have to learn to see... once you learn to see you'll be able to put to paper what ever might be in front of you, no matter what it is. Then you have to know... and once you know, then you'll be able to put that thing down on paper any way you like without it sitting in front of you any more.

You made a good choice... good luck, work hard, and no matter what, stick with it.

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And to Graver, I hope you're satisfied. I sacrificed what was left of my sanity to make more scales on my Dragonberry skethc!!!!mwahahahahaha .

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My God! Those scales turned out great there! I love how you not only used them to shade with (with the darker heavier lines and all) but also how you shrunk them around the joints like her neck, knee, and hip. Excellent job on that! I love this drawing more and more as she progresses and becomes more reptilian like.

Her face really gets me. She almost remind me of an old pet I used to have (may that lill' [censored] rest in peace) sunning her self and glancing over at something that caught her eye leaving her to ponder whether she should try to eat that thing or not. All in all, this has to be your best drawing so far but you got a lot more work to do yet *gives Pep a shot of thorazine and wheels her into the drawing room* There are far greater depths of madness that you have yet to even touch upon! Mwhahahahahahahaha....

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And I did use my eraser to make the highlights. I told you my erasing skilz were elite! I can erase anything.Even watercolor. Go ahead. Draw Pep in watercolor and send it to me, I'll erase it.

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Heh, I actually use an eraser for some of the more subtle effects on my watercolor work. It's great for pulling out hazy or fogy highlights... but ya know, the fact that you'll just erase it doesn't really make me want to paint one and send it to you. You really might wanna rethink yer approach there

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You bestumped me!

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look up humor while your there

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a... a normal functioning bodily semifluid, fluid, or the secretion of a hormone that is an excitant of activity? What th' hell does body juices have ta do with anything?!

Now to derail this conversation 'cause I ain' gonna name no fishies ('cause I'd kinda be cheatin') ...

The drawing of Rawr turned out great! Good forearms too I especially love the face and more precisely, the mouth. Those not only have to be some of your best lips, but you did a great job in having the mouth wrap around the lower face making the head and face really feel as if it was 3d in all the right ways too.

I would have to say, though, that her legs are a touch too short (looks like the end of page syndrome). Her lower legs are about rite, but her upper legs are only as long as her forearms... but I reckon that makes walking on all fours much easier. When siting in that position, her butt should be sitting on the heals of her feet (go ahead, sit that way... you'll see... unless yer a freak ).

Despite that one little thing, it's still a great drawing... and the over all pose and expression on her face (never mind the crazy floating hair XD ) is great, like she's died and gone to bubble heaven... and they's just takin' her higher... damned cats getting legalized rave drugs... what's this world commin' to?

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I am bestumped.


and snubbed

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Snubbed? *looks at dictionary, scratches head, looks at aquarium, scratches head, looks up snubbed in another dictionary* Hum... I don't get it. Your a fishy... and getting paid extra special attention to by mardun... so that can't be it... is your action being suppressed or are you being extinguished?

You bestumped me!

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is one of those mardun? lol Why is he pursing his lips? :P

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'Cause he's a fish an' thems fish lips? duh That or he's makin' kissy faces at Fallen Skye

Edit: Oh ya, and quite amusin' there Star. This one was a bit harder to name everyone... and I'm off by just one name... gerrrrr!

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Oooooo did you get a commission, or are you just wearing a pink tutu and a giant lolipop XD

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Hehe, actually I think she's doing the most hideous of dances, the very one I did when I found that sweet drawing from her of Abby here on the boards. You shouldn't dance that dance... it's a bad bad dance. It's completely outa control! It stays out all hours of the night drinkin' and smokin' an' havin' sex... an' it talks back ta me an' don' listen ta me none 'tall. Ya gots ta help me, Maury!

Seriously, Pep, I love your DB drawing so far. The scales look great, especially on her right (our left) leg. The shine that you have on her thigh (looks like by erasing a little) is a wonderful touch. I love your neurotic commitment to detail (it really is a sickness)... even the chair she's laying in is excellent. All of those plastic straps are wonderful and you have them sagging in all the right places to really give DB some weight.

I can't wait to see this one finished... or DB's Pep Rally... she's really the perfect subject for DB

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lol see what ya started now Graver?


*sigh*

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Well, that's what ya get fer being such a beloved forum celeb . And hey, because of that pic, you were able to turn some frowns upside down, and that's worth all the rainbows and kitty-cat whiskers in the whole wide world!

Besides, I didn't really start this! I'm just an innocent pawn! Sayterra is the real evil genius behind all of this, blame her!

*a chorus of voices in the background speak up "ya, blame her", "Ya, she's ta blame!", "She's a witch!", "ya, burn her!", "she turned me into a newt!"*

And on a side note, the real TA piece that I've been working on will be appearing on these boards shortly... keep yer peepers pealed fer it!

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LOL...Yep, that's Death Spiral in my avatar.
http://www.deviantart.com/view/31990360/

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ooOOOoooo he's got a groupie! I really like that... you should post more of yer stuff, PMD Can't talk too much about yer work in Stars thread after all.

So, does this mean we get ta see th' Death Spiral fishy?

It took me a lot of work, went through a lot of problems, but I've finally finished the big guy.

With this one, I was going for the opposite of AoT and I think I managed to pull it off. I was attempting to emphasis TA's connection to higher powers, to being an earth bound avatar of a god. After a lot of work, and about 5 poses and numerous idea sketches, and a little help from the boards, I believe I finally have a rendition of Thor's Assassin that I'm pleased with and I'm sure the big guy will be too.

So, here ya go TA...

I'm a Pretty Assassin!

(Die regen scrappers! DIE!)

Well, this band-wagon looks like it's going in fun directions *hops on*

While I don't have a web site yet (I really need to find the time to get that thing cobbled together) I do take commissions. Here's a few samples of my work...

Nightmare: The Assassin of Thor
The Burden of PlasmaStream
The Mad Maiden Absinthium

I seem to have lost my small scan of Fallen Skye. Got hunt that one up...

Eitherway, if you wanna talk about getting a piece, just PM me... I'll have a web site soon... soon.

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Quiet fool! Or I shall render you in a pink tutu and turn your nemesis staff into a lollipop!

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YES! That's where I've been going wrong... tutu and a lollipop! That really unifies the piece and concept... and all those problems I've been having... thanks Sayterra! Don't worry big guy, all the problems are solved... you'll love this... it'll be worth every cent

*runs off and begins scribbling madly in pink...*