Forbin_Project
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Posts
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Quote:No, I'm not on a moral high horse.Originally Posted by Fulmens
I think of it more like the Roman Empire, where bread was free and anything else got really expensive really fast... the price of SO's hasn't gone up.
Forbin: What makes you think that storing 20 billion in email is "like an exploit" but storing 40 billion in market slots, per character, is "not like an exploit"? I'd think that bidding on nonexistant recipes is MORE likely to be an exploit than not picking up your mail for a month. You've got a moral high horse going on here that I just don't understand.
1. I never once accused people of using an "exploit". Other posters were throwing that out there.
2. The feature has crashed once already and no one was reimbursed for the items they lost. So don't confuse my belief that anyone using this as storage is nuts with being on a moral high horse. Players are free to take whatever risks they want, but I'm under no obligation to feel sorry for them if and when it blows up in their face. But if it makes people feel better to paint me as the bad guy because I don't care if they get burned taking unnecessary risks that's fine with me. It won't affect my enjoyment of the game or the forums.
What I don't understand is why people want to use an unreliable feature as storage when they can easily set up a secure alternative that the devs actually back up and restore when it crashes.
Here's what I mean. We can have up to 396 characters. So there isn't a single player that can't use a couple of those slots to set up some SG's as personal banks. The banks don't even have to be on the same server as their preferred home. So they wouldn't even take up any space they intended to use. -
Quote:Ah, Now I see. However I tend to agree with Decorum that the outrageous prices of certain items is driven more by supply and demand than simple inflation. Although inflation is a big part of it.Originally Posted by DrMike2000
What I meant was that the 2 billion influence we can store per character means less in terms of what it buys, due to inflation. Maybe it used to translate into say 2000 LotG +Recharge recipes, now it only translates into 200.
My point was that if it is a problem for a character to have 2 billion influence today, then it must have been a bigger problem a few years back.
Pardon me if that wasn't clear.
But, as you point out, this restriction has been implemented for stability, which kind of makes the starting point of my post moot. So, no worries
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Quote:Someone has it on Virtue.Originally Posted by Decorum
Heh, wonder if Hadron is available.
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Quote:It's actually half Guinness and half coffee. I like to be wide awake and alert when I'm drunk and driving home from the bar. And before anyone complains about me driving drunk ask yourselves why the hell would they give a squirrel a drivers liscence in the first place.Originally Posted by Red Valkyrja
I thought he was drinking a Guinness...?
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I was thinking along the lines of ______ Collider like one of those particle accelerators that are used to speed up particles and such and smash them together.
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Quote:The impression I got from reading that was that he was implying that there was a predetermined floor plan that told base builders where each room is supposed to go.Originally Posted by Decorum
Piece by piece manually. He said as much a sentence or two before.
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The OP needs to be aware of this when using the email feature.
we would like to clarify that in order to keep this updated system as usable and stable as possible, items that you send to yourself will expire after 30 days and you will need to claim the items contained therein if you wish to keep them.
This is also true if global mail to other accounts bounces back and remains in your mail box. 30 days after reception of that bounce back mail, you will no longer be able to claim items associated with that mail.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=225117 -
Quote:No one said having large amounts of goods was seen as an exploit.Originally Posted by DrMike2000
I'm curious as to why having large amounts of goods (inf, IOs, whatever) is seen as an exploit in any way.
Let's see as far as I know the inf cap has always been 2 billion. When this game started 6 years ago we could have 8 characters per server NA.Quote:Inflation has driven up prices but the inf cap remains at 2 billion. So in many ways, our ability to store inf has decreased over time.
That's 88 characters that could store 2 billion each for a total of 176 billion.
When CoV came out we got 4 more slots per server. That's 132 characters that could hold 264 billion.
Now we can have up to 36 characters per server. That's 396 characters that can hold 792 billion.
Each character can have over 20 slots at the CH each of which can be used to store another 2 billion inf. (I'll round down to 20 because I'm not sure of the exact number of market slots over 20) So we can also store another 1,584,000,000,000 at the market.
Add that to the 2 billion each character can hold and we have the ability to hold at least 2,376,000,000,000.
That's two trillion, three hundred seventy-six billion inf. So I'm not sure where you get the idea that our ability to store inf has been reduced.
Must be that new math they teach in schools these days.
If you read what Avatea said the time limit is supposed to help maintain the stability of the email feature. Apparently too many emails with attachments sitting idle could cause the email system to crash.Quote:So this time restriction hasn't really fixed anything. -
Quote:Nice to see that they acknowledged they are working on a more effective way of letting everyone know about the time limit.Originally Posted by Disappearing Girl
There is now at least an annoucement about it: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=225117
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Quote:Originally Posted by Avatea
Recent changes to the way the global mail system works in the game have allowed many of you to send items all over the place, notably to yourself in order to share items with other characters on your account. While this has been an obvious benefit right from the start, we would like to clarify that in order to keep this updated system as usable and stable as possible, items that you send to yourself will expire after 30 days and you will need to claim the items contained therein if you wish to keep them. This is also true if global mail to other accounts bounces back and remains in your mail box. 30 days after reception of that bounce back mail, you will no longer be able to claim items associated with that mail.
Please note this is working as intended and we are working on a more explicit way to advertise this feature in game.
Thank you for your patience and understanding with this matter.
Thanks for taking the time to post this Avatea. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Ironblade
No offense, but I have emails going back years, both at work and at home, in order to keep a record of information. When the devs decided to refer to the system as "EMAIL", that automatically came with certain expectations of how it would work, based on other email systems we have already been using for many years.
The only expectation we are entitled to is that when the devs add a new feature to the game they give us full disclosure on how to use it including any penalties that we might incur if the feature has a time limit. -
Uhm . . . Do you guys realize the OP has posted the following in regards to the feedback he received?
Quote:Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk
Well I am fine with whatever you all want. I thought I would try and spin a few ideas here, and it seems among the people calm enough to address the OP not just the title, that these are probably a no-go.
Thanks for the info and feedback.
Time to let this go, and stop beating up on the guy. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
If there's a time limit, then they really need to implement a line on the interface with a countdown. There's a lot of simple features that have existed in other game's emails that they should have looked at, noticed, and put in when they expanded our email.
To me, that's the advantage of waiting so long before they did it, but they kind of blew it. pohsyb et. al. do great work, but in this case it's a pretty glaring flaw.
Oh I love the idea of a countdown timer. The only flaw I can see is that it would still require people to open their email window from time to time to check on it.
You know there would still be people who be mad because they couldn't be bothered to check the timer. -
Quote:Originally Posted by PowerStream
Just a note, some people do have things that come up in real life that affect their game play. I recently had my mother go into the hospital for over 2 months, I did not play the game much if any. So because of unseen forces it is possible to not claim an email for more than 30 days. Would I hold NCSoft responsible for the losses? No probably not, but there is nothing like having things come up that make you feel victimized in real life only to come back to your "escape" to have lost more things.
So far I have lost nothing btw, but I just don't like blanket statements that say "it's the user's fault for not being informed." (quotes are mine not trying to say you said that.) I usually go out of my way to be informed on the usage of things especially when there is potential for loss. I don't feel this was the case. And I'm usually one of the ones backing the Devs, so this isn't a dev bash from me, I just think it was poorly documented and then handled poorly after the fact.
Also there is the obvious question... Why wouldn't I hold something in email attachment for more than thirty days? Some players did look at this as a storage bin. It should, in theory, be safer to use than an open SG base to transfer expensive/important/highly sought items. I'd rather have it in my personal email than in an SG base where my son (or any SG mate whom I trust immensely) might grab it while I was at work.
NOW that I know better, I will make sure to clear out my attachments, but to insinuate that I should have known to do so prior to now is just not fair.
Only quoted you because you were the first post I saw to bring it up. Other's stated similar sentiment, so don't take this as a jab at you because that was not my intent. (Stinks that I have to quantify this but it IS the internet...)
First off let me wish your Mother the best of health. I hope she is better or is recovering swiftly. I also understand that there is nothing personal intended by your post, we're just having a discussion about our differing opinions.
Now things like the one you described above do indeed happen and it really sucks when they do, but those things are the unanticipated events that the devs can't reasonably plan for when they are designing features.
For some reason they feel a limit is needed. I would love to know what that reason is. They should have told us up front that there is a time limit and the reason why.
But regardless of the length of the time they choose there will always be someone who has a real life issue occur that will last longer than the time limit. -
Quote:There's two different points here, and I'll address them seperately.Originally Posted by kendo
however, without any clearly worded "statements of intent" from the developments, one would have to be psychic to come to your conclusions here. absent an official policy statement, one can really only go by what one sees and infer from that.
What some people imply is being psychic, I call common sense. We already saw the email feature crash and no one was reimbursed for what they lost. Yet when features that are intended to be used as storage crash the devs make the effort to restore a back up of that feature so players lose as little as possible. There is some loss but the devs try to minimize it. That makes it obvious to me that the feature isn't supposed to be used for additional storage.
On the above we can agree we have different opinions.
I'm responding to Hyperstrike in this response as well because he is also talking about the lack of notification.
On the "official policy statement" I have posted several times that I agree and feel that the devs dropped the ball.Quote:Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
This time limit needed to be stated UP FRONT. Otherwise, it could be implicitly understood to be the intent.
Quote:I will agree with others that they should have done a better job of notifying everyone of the 30 day deadline.
Quote:I may be uncompromising in some areas but not telling players about something that could explode in their face isn't one of them.
I don't object to the rule but it must be posted someplace where players can learn about it.
Quote:They need to make a special effort to make the players aware of that rule, and then make sure there is something in game that explains it to future new players.
They can't force people to read the rules but they damn sure better be certain the information is available where anyone can read it.
Quote:it's about being responsible and making a reasonable attempt to keep everyone informed about changes to the game in the first place. -
Quote:This is what I've wanted for all buffs for years. I don't want the damn prompt.Originally Posted by je_saist
Rumor has it that Pohsyb is working on a mechanism to add "ask / auto-accept / decline" to the options system.
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Quote:There's some validity to the shifting blame argument, which is why it should be addressed quickly. Oversights can happen, but when they are discovered they should be rectified as quickly as possible.Originally Posted by Decorum
Oh, true, and that's what I was clumsily trying to say.
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Quote:It's not about them being able to shift blame to someone else, it's about being responsible and making a reasonable attempt to keep everyone informed about changes to the game in the first place.Originally Posted by Decorum
Documentation definitely helps them push it from "our fault" to "your fault".
EDIT: Um, clumsy wording. "Our" from the perspective of the company. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Cinder_Flux
I did not intend on using it as storage, I just left them hanging out there waiting to be picked up by whatever toon that needed them.
Had I been informed that there was a time limit on them I would have never let them hang for so long.
I have many alts on all the servers so getting around to the right one that needs what I have may take a bit.
And the wiki page states that e-mails with attachments can't be deleted. Well not by the player that is.
And again that's why I came back and added that edit to my original post. They need to make a special effort to make the players aware of that rule, and then make sure there is something in game that explains it to future new players.
They can't force people to read the rules but they damn sure better be certain the information is available where anyone can read it. -
Quote:It would be nice if they told us why but I doubt they will, and if they do decide to remove the restriction I'm sure many people will be very happy.Originally Posted by Decorum
And now that we've gotten our "HUH? WUT???"s out of the way, I wonder why this restriction. Data storage issue? Specifically keeping us from using it as storage? A standard thing that might be removed later like the market time restriction did?
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Quote:One doesn't have to be psychic to know that the new email feature wasn't intended to be used as additional personal storage. And as long as players know about the deadline, then 30 days is more than enough time to claim any attachments sitting in an email inbox.Originally Posted by Another_Fan
I'm glad you're psychic in real life as well as the game. The rest of us have trouble picking up unstated intentions.
If an item attached to an email is so important to someone that they will be upset about losing it then they shouldn't be letting it sit in email limbo at all. We've already had Globals crash and an untold number of emails get erased along with everything that was attached to them a few weeks ago. And that is far more likely to happen than some bizarre set of circumstances that might prevent someone from spending 3 minutes out of 30 days to retrieve any items in his emails. -
Quote:That's why I added my edit after posting. I may be uncompromising in some areas but not telling players about something that could explode in their face isn't one of them.Originally Posted by Decorum
Oh, sure, but this new info about the 30-day limit (was this ever said anywhere before now?) changes how I use it. I didn't get burned, and wouldn't be any more upset then "well DANG!" if I had.
Not to mention not using things as intended is a tradition in this game. Our SG wouldn't have nearly as many members if we "worked as intended".
I don't object to the rule but it must be posted someplace where players can learn about it. -
Quote:No offense but I'm not going to feel sympathy if someone gets burned when they are using a feature in a way it wasn't intended.Originally Posted by Decorum
Actually, a lot of us have been using it for just that. I've been keeping a running bank there as well as several attachment mails.
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Quote:If you are getting emails from other people you should be opening them as soon as you get them or the next time you login if you were offline.Originally Posted by Disappearing Girl
Do emails have a date stamp? Or do we need to guess when it was sent?
If you are sending an email to yourself you will know when you sent it. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Daemodand
DDO and LOTRO. You're looking at the future of MMOs. And this MMO.
Yeah right. And the same people out there that are predicting f2p is the future of MMO's also predicted that Champions would blow this game out of the water. We all know how accurate they were on that topic.