Filth_EU

There is some mis-information in that Blood Red Rose guide. I wrote something in May, not claiming it's perfect:
Plant/Thorns

People seem to underestimate the immobs. Seeds of Confusion + Roots + Fling Thorns is a great combination in PvE. I went for a more single target focussed build. Immobs are also useful for AVs and in PvP. It's also worth noting that the Plant Hold Strangler will not take effect if the target is flying/hovering - you need to ground the target with Impale/Roots/Entangle.

The Knockback in Thorn Barrage is cancelled by either roots or entangle, if you don't want the KB. FlyTrap also tends to spam Roots quite often.

The Rose guide mentions Thorn Burst as a good power - I think it's possibly the worst in the set.

Spore Burst definitely *does* cause aggro - that is, if you miss any of the targets they will come after you immediately; the ones you hit will of course be asleep but will aggro on you once they wake up.

Spirit Tree is better than most people think. When slotted you can have one active 100% of the time, sometimes two - yes you can have two active at the same time. It's probably better in a Plant/Psi build though so the regen can stack with Drain Psyche.

8)

[ QUOTE ]
ahhh, thanks for the incite into this...

is there a pool power that may be able to improve this, or maybe a change of powersets?

[/ QUOTE ]

Take Aid Self and 6 slot it. You could also take leadership and get the +Per from Tactics to stack with the +Per from SR. Without Tactics stacking you won't see Stalkers with Hide+Stealth.

The stuns with MA aren't that great, I found Crippling Axe Kick to be useful though since it's harder to resist the Immob & Slow. MA/SR works ok for hit & run.

[ QUOTE ]
Just out of interest, which dom primary would be great for PvP do you think? (Apart from fire, got that on a controller)

[/ QUOTE ]

It does depend on your style I think. Playing a Dom is hard enough so I would go with Ice or Gravity, choosing Ice Control for a simple life with the built in debuffs to speed and recharge, Gravity for a more complex time but still with the speed debuffs, nifty tricks and nasty pet. I haven't played either to high level though.

Mind is the obvious super-control Primary but not one I'd want to play because of it's fussiness and lack of secondary effects.

[ QUOTE ]

filth, for the synergie between PPP shield + Tough + spirit three + drain psyché i am building one with that in mind but i just don't see what i can drop i what i want to fit it in as i am not sur that drain psyché alone could be enough tu run Tough, the shield + plus finally tactic or just all the power i need to fire.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't forget you get Power Sink in Mu Mastery as well, for +End it's better than Drain Psyche, it is also auto-hit, so can be slotted 3/3 Recharge/EndMod.

Having said this I do not think Plant/Psi would necessarily be tops for PvP, it would be an interesting one to try though. As I said before I think Plant Control is not great for PvP.

I would say playing what you enjoy is much more important that playing something which might turn out to be optimal for PvP, certainly all the primaries have their plusses.

There are some problems with Plant in PvP, one of which I consider a bug which is the issue of ground contact and the Hold power - the immob/Hold combo does not always work, at least it did not in Issue 7 when I tested it fairly thoroughly in the arena. You will find people bunny hopping to exploit this.

Confuse in general is an OK power in PvP but has limitations and sometimes is not effective at all in certain situations. I would put Plant control at the bottom of the list in PvP but it's very good in PvE.

I think Gravity, Ice and Mind can all be potent in PvP. Gravity has slows even if the controls don't work, a phasing power, a very strong pet; Ice has slows and -Recharge; Mind has a great variety of controls.

Fire has the speed of Char and the damage of Imps, but that is pretty much it, those benefits might be all you need though. Fire is weak if you're fighting more than one opponent.

/Psi gets my vote for being potentially the secondary of choice for the Dom who wants to tank, and in this case Plant might work out well with the Tree. I've thought before that since /Psi need not necessarily take Stamina, you could take the Fighting pool to get Tough which combined at 41+ with the Patron armour gives you high resistance to damage and high regen if you combine the Tree with Drain Psyche. How this might actually work out in practice though I'm not sure - probably badly.

Just to add, because of the rapid-fire of /Psi you'll get Domination very fast in PvP and it also has the longest ranged attacks, as long as you have something in your Control powers to slow down opponents (ie. -Spd) you should be able to kite well when building domination.

I wasn't really talking about the lag with Cages, it's the fact they are so visually and aurally intrusive, sometimes ridiculously so, but then, I like Jump Kick. ;P

[ QUOTE ]
Don't need stone cages ? Take jump kick ?
Are you on crack ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I know you are but am I?

You don't need Stone Cages - Quicksand is just as good as an immob (if slotted), much less likely to cause people's PCs to explode, and meshes fine with your other AoEs.

Jump Kick or Flurry are actually decent attacks, their uselessness is overstated. After playing a Dominator the hands off nature of Controllers makes me a little queasy.

I would dump Stone Cages, you just don't need it plus the fact it's an extremely intrusive power. Put the slots into Quicksand instead, and get Flurry or Jump Kick as an attack.

On another note...duoing with an Ice/Ice tank? you sure you have enough control and tiny damage? jeje.

Alvan's is pared down for PvP - no AoE attacks, no Ice Slick and 2 movement powers, which makes it very efficient for attacking single players, like a blaster build...hmmm..even so, you can still get Aid Self in there by level 30 and still fit in at least Ice Slick plus shiver or an AoE along with everthing else - hasten, acrobatics, stamina and Aid Self; so, I don't think it's especially difficult to come up with something.

Ice Slick is pretty fast recharge and is your main PvE control, combine that with Shiver or CE and you have your AoE control powers for PvE done, stick in AA after level 30.

[ QUOTE ]
Thinking about it, one of the best LRSF setups I can think of would consist of two brutes (each one covering weaknesses of the other), four corruptors with a certain variety of secondary powersets and preferably one sonic attacker and two dominators.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heretic.

Posts like this disgust me. You're implying that a balanced team with a mix of ATs and powersets will do best, almost as if the game was designed to be like that. You and your sort have no place here.

I would go with something like this :

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name: ssstonebrute
Level: 41
Archetype: Brute
Primary: Super Strength
Secondary: Stone Armor
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Punch==> Acc EndRdx EndRdx
01) --> Rock Armor==> DefBuf DefBuf DefBuf
02) --> Haymaker==> Acc EndRdx EndRdx Rechg
04) --> Earth's Embrace==> Rechg Rechg Rechg Heal Heal Heal
06) --> Swift==> Run
08) --> Knockout Blow==> Acc EndRdx EndRdx Dmg Dmg Dmg
10) --> Mud Pots==> EndRdx EndRdx
12) --> Recall Friend==> Empty
14) --> Teleport==> Range Range EndRdx EndRdx
16) --> Rooted==> Heal Heal Heal
18) --> Rage==> Rechg Rechg Rechg TH_Buf TH_Buf
20) --> Health==> Heal
22) --> Stamina==> EndMod EndMod EndMod
24) --> Hand Clap==> Acc Acc DisDur
26) --> Brimstone Armor==> DmgRes DmgRes DmgRes
28) --> Crystal Armor==> DefBuf DefBuf DefBuf
30) --> Hasten==> Rechg Rechg Rechg
32) --> Foot Stomp==> Acc Acc EndRdx EndRdx Dmg Dmg
35) --> Minerals==> DefBuf DefBuf DefBuf
38) --> Granite Armor==> DmgRes DmgRes DmgRes DefBuf DefBuf DefBuf
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty
01) --> Brawl==> Empty
01) --> Fury==> Empty
02) --> Rest==> Empty
---------------------------------------------

This is up to level 40. The slotting might be a bit funky. You will need those extra recharges in Rage after you get Granite if you want to keep it going, outside of Granite Rage will be up pretty much all the time with just one slot, although you might want more ToHit slots in there - this is why there's only 1 ACC in most attacks, you might want more. 3 ToHit slots in Rage is equivalent to 1 ACC in all attacks (I think).

Keep in mind Stone is very difficult to play in PvP, if you're interested in that, simply because of the limited mobility of Rooted and then Granite. If you don't run Rooted you have no mez resist.

Hand Clap you may or may not like. It's very funny to use and gives you some aggro control, but it does have huge knockback. Mudpots & Footstomp will give you some good AoE damage in missions, and keep mobs stuck to you.

[ QUOTE ]

Just because I have a different opinion, it dosent mean I havent looked at these things fairly carefully.


[/ QUOTE ]
You may or may not have looked at Dominators carefully, but you have made some bizarre statements about them.

[ QUOTE ]

I have played an Ice/Ice dominator up to level 23 and an Ice/Thermal Corruptor up to level 12. I know what felt more damaging from experience. My exepreience of my 3 dominators and my 5 corruptors - I have always felt the corruptors outdamaged. They certainly solo'd a lot faster.


[/ QUOTE ]
If anything Dominators do more damage than Corruptors at low level, I would agree most Corruptors should be doing more AoE damage at high level. You are simply wrong about Dominators and Corruptors leveling speed. It's bizarre you have found this at low level, the opposite is true from the simple fact that Dominators do damage with both power sets and corruptors with one. Some Corruptor sets give powers which offer -Res early but these come into play later on and Domination is at least if not more powerful.

an earlier comment of yours is telling:
[ QUOTE ]

Dominatosr do need a very careful look at. And the answer, contrary to devs apparent vision, is not, IMHO, to bring domination up more and more often.


[/ QUOTE ]
You don't like Domination. That is a bit of a sticking point when playing a Dominator.

I can't explain how you found this:
"I can only come close to corruptors damage when domination has fired off, and even then its still less"
How is that possible? Can you give an example?

[ QUOTE ]

For reference, I care little for single target damage on its own. Its only one factor.


[/ QUOTE ]
Except you also said:
[ QUOTE ]

THe major problem would be actually doing enough damage. It could be done, but it would be a long slow process


[/ QUOTE ]
So you don't think Dominators do enough damage? or you just want to ignore the single target damage?

[ QUOTE ]

There really are so many variables: dps, dpe, animation times, accuracy, etc.. its hard to just say "toon x has more single target attacks" therefore it outdamages.


[/ QUOTE ]
So, it's reasonable for you to quote a vague description about AT damage, but it's not reasonable for me to state something very basic ie. the number of attacks a Dominator has in comparison to Corruptors! Of course there's more to it than that.

[ QUOTE ]

The brawl index system, i understand, is flawed, so one cant take it as gospel.


[/ QUOTE ]
I mentioned the brawl index where?

[ QUOTE ]

Im sorry, but I would have to say that I still view dominators as having less damage potential than corruptors from my experience and from the (sometimes innacuate and flawed) data I have. But it certainly interesting that you have had a markedly different experience.


[/ QUOTE ]
Trying playing both ATs - which is what I did.

The stuff you're saying about Plant and Energy being overpowered, er, great, so Dominators are both seriously underperforming and so overpowered you can't bear to play them.

I don't buy the "humble opinion" ruse. You posted a number of things which as far as I read them are just more 'Dominators as whipping boy' posts backed up with no argument whatsoever, usually this stuff comes from people who simply don't like playing Dominators because something about them irritates them - they want them to be more like Controller or more like Defenders or Corruptors - well *that* I think is valid reason not to like playing them, but it doesn't have anything to do with how good or bad the Assault sets are, so why continue to wheel out the same old mis-information?

[ QUOTE ]
are u suggestin i treat granite as a panic button? is that what granite really is? :S

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really but it depends on the situation - you might find you can manage without it if you have enough mez powers or enough damage going on to prevent too much damage coming your way. If you're superstrength you can use handclap to stun and buy you some time, with Rage going Footstomp is going to give you a lot of AoE damage as well. I've played a stone/stone tank and Fault/Tremor is a bit better for this. You might find you can run just Rooted much of the time, but if you're in a large team with large groups of mobs you'll need to run Granite most of the time, it does make a huge difference in what you can do.

Thanks, those numbers should make the Dominator episode of "That's Amazing". -3000% Regen in PvP? o.O ouch.

[ QUOTE ]

All of these things are USELESS in a 6-8 man team in PVE. Who cares if the mobs are recharging a little slower, they are all DEAD before it matters.


[/ QUOTE ]
Then all Controller powers are useless? in fact Controllers are useless except for their secondaries, and then you might as well have Defenders instead. In a large team you aren't necessarily going to notice your contribution because one person *is* a small part of a large group.

[ QUOTE ]

Drain psyche? It has an insanely large to hit neg modifier, It seems to miss a LOT even 2 acc slotted.


[/ QUOTE ]
There's no ACC penalty.
[ QUOTE ]

Granted shockwave is nice but in a large group not so nice when things die quick. Your contribution with this ONE power is minimal.


[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, your contribution in a group of 8 is 1/8.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And Terrify? and Telekinesis? and Dominate? and Confuse? and Mass Confusion? useless? .... who on earth relies on SLEEP as their main control?

[/ QUOTE ]

All of these USELESS in a large group when everything dies within seconds, so what if you held 8 mobs, so what when they die quickly. As I said before, if you had to stand back and do nothing you would hardly even notice any difference in the outcome of the fight.


[/ QUOTE ]
Same argument, same answer.

[ QUOTE ]

I would like to see you kite anything in WBG or SC, oops, did you just mean single person pvp? Yeah that would work, but usually that is not the case, you will be mobbed.


[/ QUOTE ]
er yes, I've frequently soloed in SC, in fact most of my Dominator PvP experience is solo. As far as being outnumbered - gee whizz, is this not a problem for everyone?

[ QUOTE ]

I just tried a wbg door mission with my nice and shiny new respecced mind psi dom solo. It still took me half an end bar to take down a +3 LB Leut, even with dominate. Is this the same for any other assault set? I have no idea.

[/ QUOTE ]
You are familiar with Defender Blasts? You should know about Psi attacks - you don't take Psi Assault because it's a high damage set - are you honestly surprised about this? It still has decent damage but the main feature of Psi Assault is utility. Mind Probe, Mental Blast and Subdue are decent attacks.

[ QUOTE ]

2. The psi assault set is really lacking in damage, the lowest of the assault sets I would say. The plus side (supposedly) is the psi damage, which is badly resisted by most mobs. The ironic thing is that once you get to a level where mobs start resisting other assault sets and not yours, you become more and more useless in teams.


[/ QUOTE ]
Psi is the lowest damage, but you have the "plus side" wrong. The plus is not that Psi is least resisted it's because of:
i) Insanely fast Domination building, mostly due to the Psionic Dart machine gun.
ii) Tons of -recharge debuff.
iii) Drain Psyche - you may not need the entire Fitness pool because of this, on top of the regen buff, and the debuffs.
iv) Subdue - this is a long range, pretty nasty attack! there isn't an equivalent in the other assault sets I can think of.
v) Psychic Shockwave - stupidly good AoE power and a toggle dropper.

[ QUOTE ]

3. 35+ things change a lot: the groups you get into are all equipped with huge AE damage ... This means that any sleeps you use is useless ... The only doms that become of any use at higher levels are doms with AE immobs for AV/Heroes, and guess what? You have none.


[/ QUOTE ]
And Terrify? and Telekinesis? and Dominate? and Confuse? and Mass Confusion? useless? .... who on earth relies on SLEEP as their main control?

[ QUOTE ]

4. In PVP you shine more than other sets because you have one very important power: terrify. Most ATs have a weakness to this. You also have a huge arsenal of sleeps, holds and confuses to throw at people, knocking down their mag in short order. Just dont expect to kill anyone. [snipped blah blah blah..controllers ftw...blah blah]


[/ QUOTE ]
Use your assault powers. Psionic Dart means you will gain Domination faster than any other assault set. Because of your range and attacks - Psi Dart, Mental Blast, Subdue all have a range of 100' which means you can kite better than anyone to build Domination, when you have it Mind Probe and Drain Psyche are going to give people trouble. The -Recharge in PvP is nasty, Psi is even nastier with -Regen and -Recovery as well.

[ QUOTE ]
Really, I thought it was less?

And the recharge is?

[/ QUOTE ]

Cognito I would suggest you get Character Builder, it's not always right but most of the power information is correct:

Character Builder

[ QUOTE ]
Even in the super-basic official AT introduction, corruptors are listed as "high" damage, and dominators as "medium". On my dominators, I can only come close to corruptors damage when domination has fired off, and even then its still less

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

I dont think [Dominators] are gimped in any way (although they do need to be balanced - plant and /energy are superior imho).

[/ QUOTE ]

If I was being charitable I would call you 'inconsistent'. I'm amazed that 6 months after I was having these same arguments people are posting this nonsense on the forums. If your experience of Dominators comes from reading the descriptions do I really need to roll my eyes upwards?

Try out an Ice Blast Corruptor and and Ice Assault Dominator and then say you do " less damage than a Corruptor with Domination running ".

The reality is if you compare the Corruptor's Ice Bolt and Ice Blast with the Dominator's Ice Bolt and Ice Sword their damage is the same, excluding both Domination and Scourge (In fact Ice Bolt does do very slightly more damage). These attacks have the same recharge, same end cost.

If you look at the single target attacks between Ice Blast and Ice Assault, the Dominator has 5 attacks whereas the Corruptor has 3. Want to guess which one does more single target damage?

It doesn't seem like you have actually looked that much at all at the assault sets. Energy Assault, by the way, is far from a superior set, I would say it's balanced since it has Power Boost but is certainly beaten for damage by Fire, Ice and Thorns. All the assault sets have things going for them including Psi Assault.

If you choose Psi you're are going for utility over damage - it has great -Recharge, and Drain Psyche can mean you can (potentially) skip Stamina - that's freeing up a whole Power Pool and three powers. All Dominator assault sets have late maturing attacks (much like tanks) but Psi is a bit more extreme than the others having the awesome Psychic Shockwave at level 38.

[ QUOTE ]
Drain psyche is -500% regen, for 30 seconds. It's way higher than most corruptors' -regen powers, and almost the same stats as corruptor's LR, except LR is non-resistable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you sure that's correct Lecxe? where is that info from? +500% is supposed to be a Dominator's regen cap. The Prima guide states -30 regen in pvp and -5 in PvE.

[ QUOTE ]
my question is plane and simple. ahem! do stone brutes really gather fury slower than other secondary sets and if so how come? ive got ss/stone brute ive just really got in to and was shocked wen i was told how i wont be able to gather fury as fast or as good in pvp as other brutes

[/ QUOTE ]

That is mostly wrong, or incomplete information and as Alvan has said Scoulou's post is wrong as well.

Fury builds up according to 'Attacks' not 'Hits'. This is true for both attacks that you make and attacks on you.

This means defence based armours - stone & energy are the big ones do just as well as resistance based ones, with one exception, and that is the Granite armour in the Stone Armour set.

When you use Granite you get a -Recharge debuff (-65%) which means that your attacks will recharge much more slowly and so you will build up Fury slower than usual, this won't have an impact on attacks on you though. There are ways of managing this like only going into Granite when you have generated a decent amount of Fury or just making sure you grab a lot of aggro, taking Taunt will help with this.

A Stone brute is one of the toughest you can get, just be aware of the penalties - you've got the same movement problems as with Rooted, plus the -Recharge and some -Damage.

So spill the beans Frosty what is the Mako pet like?

[ QUOTE ]
Because everyone will cheat and have full HOs

[/ QUOTE ]

::rolls eyes:: I think you might be playing the wrong game, or in other words, who gives a toss? That's your reason for wanting to exclude all other servers?

Filth extends the hand of friendship to all heroes and villains, black or white, jew or gentile, catholic or protestant, mutant or natural, 133t or RPer, skilled player or spines scrapper, to the Serveur Test so that we can beat the living [censored] out of each other until the sun rises in the East.

[ QUOTE ]
I cant see how an 8 man dominator team could possibly succeed in the RLSF myself, but someone correct me.

[/ QUOTE ]

And an all Brute team? and an all Corruptor team?

You seem to have missed the point of the thread - which is that Holds aren't all that Dominators have, the AoE immobs are one thing they can contribute, the Holds are largely irrelevant.

Dominators also do at least as much damage as Corruptors.