Fernandes

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I am so sick of this entire debacle I honestly wish they would remove MA from the game, just take is all out, strip the badges, I don't care..... just make it gone.

I feel that this is the most serious danger the game has ever been in, due to punitive actions of this and that sort, which have been discussed to death... friends are leaving over the nerfs, let's just roll it back to the way it was and let people try to heal.

The whole thing is a giant negativity-sink and.... and I know they're not going to take it out but I really feel that would be the best outcome. This is going from bad to worse, as in floods of people leaving.

I don't want my MMO to die. And it feels like the MA/related issues are killing it. I'm just very sad

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Sadly, the player was right. This isn't anything but a doom post and I'm in the camp that thinks the devs royally farked it all up with the bannings.

On the other hand, it may very well cost dev X his job if enough subs get canceled.

So if you REALLY want your voice heard, cancel now. Otherwise, you truly are stating that you're ok with the decisions being made.

I've figured out I am ok with it enough to stay, regardless of my disgust at this Current situation.

The good still outweighs the bad. That, of course, may change next week.

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This is a fair point. If the changes (either introducing MA, or nerfing it, or whatever) make teh game un-fun for you, dont play it. The democracy of the marcketplace in action.

For me, personally, the coolness of playing in a superhero setting outweighs my 4 year-long disatisfaction with more or less all aspects of gameplay (to one extent or anther). Also, the mission architect is a big selling point for me - and no, not ONLY because it can get me from one to 50 in a week instead of a month - but more importantly than that because of the endless variety fo cotnent it allows me to experience, and its storytelling potential as an RP tool. the promise of this system is actually what kept me from cancelling my subscription to go play Darkfall Oline several months ago (although the catastrophic incompetance of Adventurine studios didnt hurt either... but I digress).

Nonetheless, there eveyr probability, unless it is just the worst piece of crap Ive ever played, that when CO hits the marcket, Ill be out of here.

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I am so sick of this entire debacle I honestly wish they would remove MA from the game, just take is all out, strip the badges, I don't care..... just make it gone.

I feel that this is the most serious danger the game has ever been in, due to punitive actions of this and that sort, which have been discussed to death... friends are leaving over the nerfs, let's just roll it back to the way it was and let people try to heal.

The whole thing is a giant negativity-sink and.... and I know they're not going to take it out but I really feel that would be the best outcome. This is going from bad to worse, as in floods of people leaving.

I don't want my MMO to die. And it feels like the MA/related issues are killing it. I'm just very sad

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Even assuming one accepted your argument that the game would have been better off without the mission architect (I diagree - I adore this system - but even if I WERE on board with you), the fact is that it is too late for that. Now that it is released, removing it would lead to a much greater public out-cry, exodus of players, general bad blood between groups of players, and betweeen certain players the developers, and similar bad, unpleasent things, than simply toning down the more extreme (and, arguably, exploitative) excesses of XP farming.

You are worried about the health of the game, and thats a fair concenr. I hardly feal that the game is dying, but even if it were, removing the archtiect system now taht tis been implemented would hasten its demise, not avert them.

After the massive nerf-bat that AE farms got hit with - one taht still has many chomping at the bit - I daresay that the system is "fixed" enough. If it gets any more "fixed" I shudder to think of the proverbial [censored]-storm libel to be kicked up.

Im in. Good old accolade badges.

Anastacia Lic - level 40 (at the moment - probably higher by tomorrow night) Mind Control/Electric Assault dominator.

In anime, to the best of my experience (which, I admit, is limited and most definately going to stay that way), being an air-headed pop tart, and the next best thing to God almighty are not mutualy exclusive character traits.

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bramamamarararara !!!

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Deebs has repressed feelings for me.

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Angel, everyone has repressed fealings for you.

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It's kinda silly.

It's like kicking someone because of their religious beliefs, political ideals, or favorite color.

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All of which are also legitimate. Games are a social activity. On the internet, as in real life, you are under no ethical obligation to socialize with anyone you don't want to, regardless of the reason for that dislike or its legitimacy.

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near-total lack of end-game content after 5 years is a perfectly legitimate gripe to make.

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LOL. I can't take anyone seriously who says something like this.

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It might help if he tried playing CoX.

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Ahh, whats a good argument that doesn't degenerate into dubious personal insults. Suffice it to say Ive been playing City of Heroes for a very long time, and actually never powerleveled a character (though to be fair, thats partly because I don't play many - if were trying to get 2-dozen alts to 50 like some people I suspet I would have to either start farming or else go mad with boredom).

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near-total lack of end-game content after 5 years is a perfectly legitimate gripe to make.

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LOL. I can't take anyone seriously who says something like this.

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And yet, somehow, my heart will go on.

[/ QUOTE ]NEAR! FAR! WHevER YOU ARE!

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Warning: THE SHIP SANK!!!!!

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Spoilers!

[/ QUOTE ]LEO NOOOO!

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*dies laughing*

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Lord Recluse Strike Force? Statesman Task Force? Rikti Mothership Raids? Hamidon Raids? Purple IOs? The new 5th Column SF/TFs coming in Issue 15? You have played the game, right? Because alting is encouraged, the Devs have decided that creating content across all levels is better than concentrating content at the end.

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Its getting better, I grant you, but its still a paltry tithe (YES! I found an excuse to use the phrase "paltry tithe" in a sentance) compared to other MMOs.

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I was mainly adressing the hyperbolic assertion that there was absolutely no endgame. I'm perfectly content to level my 140+ characters through the game, but I'll happily admit that the endgame is anemic. I've never claimed otherwise. Anemic does not equal non-existant. Overuse of hyperbole did not strengthen the OP's argument.

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Granted.

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But the other games rely upon end-game content *because there's only a grind from 1 to cap* for those games.

THIS game is not like those. There is content from level one onwards. If you blow past it, that's YOUR loss *general you* and not the devs fault.

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I disagree. My expeience with World of Warcraft's content was very much the sam as my expeience iwth tehc onten here. it was fun, and interesting, and reasonably well written, and I enjoyed it. And once i'd done it once or twice, I never, ever wanted to see it again. A difficult and complex raid, however, took a looooot longer to get old.

Subjective? Of course. But the same logic Lightfoot uses to say that since this game is still alive the developers must be doing somethign right would also apply to the good people at blizard - and if commercial success is really going to be our metric, then they're doing it a hundred times better.

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near-total lack of end-game content after 5 years is a perfectly legitimate gripe to make.

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LOL. I can't take anyone seriously who says something like this.

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And yet, somehow, my heart will go on.

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Lord Recluse Strike Force? Statesman Task Force? Rikti Mothership Raids? Hamidon Raids? Purple IOs? The new 5th Column SF/TFs coming in Issue 15? You have played the game, right? Because alting is encouraged, the Devs have decided that creating content across all levels is better than concentrating content at the end.

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Its getting better, I grant you, but its still a paltry tithe (YES! I found an excuse to use the phrase "paltry tithe" in a sentance) compared to other MMOs.

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The exploits discovered allowed powerleveling at an unprecedented speed. Because much of this was done without ever leaving the Architect building, often in the beginner zones, a metric tonne of new players were skyrocketed past most of the game, all to reach the endgame. As you have noted previously, the "endgame" is somewhat lacking. These new players will quickly get bored because they completely bypassed everything there is to do in this game in the race to the cap.

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This is actually the only legitimate argumetn I've ever heard amde about PLing (architect style or otherwise) - that getting to the level cap quicker will mean leaving the game quicker, and hurt the game in the long run.

It is a perfectly legitimate concern. Im not sure if it is quite as doomy and gloomy a possibility as some would like to believe, but it is still legitimate. I tend to feel, however that the correct solution is to make more and better end-game content, rather than forcing people to go more slowly through the content they've already done.

It is worth noting, though, just to play my own devil's advocate, that one of the nice things about MA, is that it can effectively fill thise role, at least to an extent, since people can make a theoreticaly infinate variety of high level missions.

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Before AE came out there were at least two warnings not to use it as farm grounds. They were ignored.
When AE came out the patch notes and tutorial said not to farm it. This was ignored.
The Devs went "If you can't be trusted not to throw the ball in the house you don't get any balls."

People acted like kids they were disciplined like kids.

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I came back after the AE release.
Heck, I even missed the free 5 year weekend...

But your comment... lol
I understand you're trying to use an analogy, but I think you're a little far off in your description.

I'd draw the comparison like this:
Before AE came out there at least two advertisements for free crack cocaine in the AE missions. But the crack cocaine was not supposed to be used. Just looked at.
When AE came out the patch notes and tutorial said not to use the crack cocaine.
This was ignored.
The Devs went "If you crackheads can't be trusted to leave the crack cocaine alone, then you're banned!"

Gamers acted like gamers.
It was absurd to expect anything else.

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Also, this!

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I just renewed a few days ago after not playing for several months, and then the you(the devs) start releasing all these notes about nerfing AE missions and getting rid of badges, etc. I just ran my first AE mission ever tonight to try it out since getting back. I got a couple of badges for it. The server goes down and I read the forums in the meantime and discover some of the neat new badges I just got are getting removed. This annoyed me and got me thinking about some stuff.

You seem to be catering this game more towards RPers than anyone else. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with RPers, but they seem to be the vocal ones complaining about farming and whatnot. So you are cracking down on farming now. Five years into the game and we still don't have end day content. All the expansion packs are really more geared towards RPers as they are costumes and emotes. They don't add any new playing content. Even your stated goal for MA seems to be more about getting players to write stories. Another aspect of RP.

Let's focus on the players a bit now. Really who cares about farms? It literally does not impact ANYONE. Yet you state you got numerous complaints over the farm AE missions. So what? The game is not more fun the slower it is to level. I'm not sure if this is a concept grasped by everyone on your team yet.

Many of the playerbase just want a game they can pick up and play and move up quickly to try out their nifty new powers. They want new content and not the same repetitious floorplans over and over. None of these requests are new. MA offered this and now you want to nerf it.

Maybe you focus most of your attention to the RP fanbase because their desires are cheaper and easier to implement. But they are also the smaller part of the playerbase. They may very well be sticking this game out until it dies, but is that all you are gunning for?

This isn't a request to keep farming in the game or to nerf RP. I just think you need to focus more on a balance of content for players and RPers. Please stop focusing all your decisions and releases around the RPers of the game. Look at things a bit more from the side of the player. Let's not forget the game in RPG.

PS- I also recommend you all try playing a couple of characters from 1-50 without any dev tricks, just as a normal player, to see how grindy things are. Then go on a couple of farm missions with some friends and see how fun the leveling can be in comparison.

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Speaking as a roleplayer, I agree completly. No, Im not joking, I really do. Im not sure if the develiopers are focused on RP content to the exclusion of other content, but I do generally agree that ther is nothing wrong with farming. Its become somethign of an article of faith with this community that thats its evil. Something we take for granted and never question. The sky is blue; the sun is hot; G0d is good; farming must be stopped. I've got news for you, sports fans, who do you think is supplying the marcket with a lot of those oh-so-fun-to-have high end recipees?

The whole "you're not having fun the right way; we have to force you to play only in the developer-approved kind of teams" is not good. Ive always especially loved that argument about AE and famring in genral. "people ar all farming, I can't find a mission team." So your argument is taht... what? People should be forced to play the kind of content you enjoy so that they will have no choice but to team with you? And /they're/ selfish? And I could just as easilly complain about normal content clogging the airwaves as farming content. Or costume contests for that matter *shudder*

And on a broader note (in theory this thread isn't just about farming) the near-total lack of end-game content after 5 years is a perfectly legitimate gripe to make. "re-roll for the 800th time" is not an acceptable answer to people sitting at the level cap wondering why there's nothing to do. Perhaps people would be less inclinced to PL their way past all that oh-so-sacred 'content' if they hadn't seen it all so often they could quote the dialogue verbatum.

So personal force field is useless? Ouch. Thats depressing to hear!

I agree, Stryph, the console focus makes me nervous, but I want to actually try the interface first hand before I write it off given how much else the game has going for it. DCUO also looks awesome, but there isn't really enough of it out yet to judge.

They could ahve shuit down the percieved exploit without going back and trying to hit eveyrone with the banstick who may ever have done ti. Solving the problem is just commons ense, and you're right, its essential precisly because of the newly competative marketplace. The latter, although it may appeal to our more vindictive natures, seems to ahve caused more problems than it would ahve solved.

Ed WAS worse than this, but ED happened at a diffenrt time. Or rather, a differnt marcketplace. If youw anted a superhero game, this was the only one in town. Don't like it? Too bad, you're stuck here. This problem, althogh much smaller by comparison comes just as Champions Online is being set to release, and for the firs timte in 5 years, if you don't like how City fo Heroes is going you will be able to take your money somewhere else. It is also coming as they are gearing up to release a new expansion, which will mean that people ahve an even ahrder choice to amke since sticking with CoH will mean paying for a new box as like if they were switching to CO.

Also, the Architect system is a revolution in game design - somethign compeltly new that no one has ever even attempted to implement before. If it works out then thats all good. But it looks real bad on the development team if they devote massive resources to creating this revolutionary new storytelling oppertunity, and its chief use is as an exploit which precipitates a crisas (percieved or otherwise) in the community.

Thats not necesarilly to say that this kurflufel will deal a death-blow to the game, but it is to say that the City of Heroes franchise is in a MUCH weaker position to be pissing people off and looking bad.

Looks awesome to me! Champion's graphcis seem perfectly designed for handling the primary colours and clean lines of iron-man-style super-armour. Its actually the more everyday sort of customes (such as yours truly tends to prefer) that Im worried about. The woman in the the Sorcery trailer looked so badly purportioned it was like a child's drawing.

All in all, though, it is a reasonably good-looking game. It is NOT photorealistic as CoH is, and its not meant to be.

better than 4 seconds witha n accuracy check, I suppose.

On anunlretaed ntoe, how does hold times and superssion in the new PvP work with Telekinesis?

Im actually curous how the defence based shield and PFF interact with changes to defence in PvP myself.

As for the other stuff, Im hardly an expert,b ut I imagine all the old stand-bys are still good minus the notable exception of Medicine. Concealement for Invisbility and Phasing; Leadership to help hit your enemies (and help see stalkers, though thats not as much as concern for a villain); Speed and Leaping for mobility; Fitness because Though Shalt Take Stamina; ECT.

If you ever liek a demonstration you know where to find me. ;D

As someone said earlier I doubt that any of the villain patrons will change sides since they would ahve to create a replacement patron to ofer the same anciliary power pool, or else change the way in which villains select their epics.

Task-force offering members of the freedom phalanx would face a similar, if more lower-key, dillema.

All major characters that appear in any significant amoutn fo cotnent would pose a problem since that cotnent would then need to be re-written heavily.

All of these things are made even less likely when we remember that Going Rogue is going to be a (theoretically) optional expansion, and therefor you still ahve to be ble to play in Paraon and the Rogue Isles even if you haven't baught it with no significant change in play experience.

If someone were going to switch sides, Manticore does seem like the most likely option given that he operates independently and much more covertly already, and seems to ahve a more utilitarian ethical framework than the others of the Freedom Phalanx. I don't believe that even he, however, would turn against his Paragon City and Primal Earth to join with the Praetorians. Nor, as someone else pointed out, does it seem likely that he would lightly abandon his blushing bride.

Synapse would be a secondary candidate for recruitment, since he's kindof a bitter jackass. He still seems to be determiend to Make a Difference (tm),a nd so on, and even if he wasn't the more pragmatic reasons above would still hold true, but of all the Freedom Phalanx he is the most likely to join say "screw this, Im out for number one".

Of the villains Ghost-Widow seems like the least likely choice. Although its true that her supernaturally enforced loyalty is to Arachnos as an institution and not to Lord Recluse as its leader (which she explains at the end of one of her arcs in such a manner as to imply that has more respect for the player character than her boss - who has, by this point, been a fairly big jackass to both you and her - and that she might not fight on his side if the two of you ever came into conflict), the fact remains that she can't leave Arachnos to go do her own thing, and she certainly can't join the Praetorians to fight against (which would be necessary if they plan to conquer the world).

Scirocco seems like the most likely turn-coat, given that he's all filled with emo self-loathing about the monster he's become and only serves the forces of evil because he is literally cursed to do so (or at least, believes he is).

Mako and Black Scorpion are essentially oppertunists who server Arachnos because its the best job offer they've gotten. If someone made them a better one there's no compelling reason I know of why they wouldn't take them up on it. Mako perhaps less so than Scorpion, since he has a vested interest in the creepy goings on beneath the coast of Sharkhead Isle.

I do suspect, however, that there will be at leat onr arc for each side where it will APPEAR as if some major character is going rogue for any one of a number of excellent possible reasons, and you will have to investigate.